Game News We Stripped Stuff Because Origins "Was Busted"

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: BioWare; Dragon Age 2

<p>Feel free to <a href="http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/315/index/7992640&amp;lf=8" target="_blank">check out the Bioforums </a>where Mike Laidlaw explains that stripping stuff from DA:O was the right thing to do. They listen a lot to fan feedback though.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I've said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted. Other stuff was simply a design choice, and some of it was circumstance. There is no way you guys could know exactly what falls on what side of that triangle, and as devs we are not always able to be crystal clear on that kind of thing, especially immediately after a controversial game launch when the community was so far out for blood that they took my suggestion that setting a game that was too easy to a higher difficulty might be a good call was some sort of gigantic, egotistical middle finger to the entire fanbase. That was not a time for reasonable discussion, clearly.<br /><br />Now is the time. And I'm still <span style="font-style: italic;">very</span> interested to hear what you folks have to say (unless it is a demand for gameplay videos <span style="font-style: italic;">before</span> we announce anything, that is. ), and we are still working on the formula. If I'm going to piss you guys off, it's going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players. Not dumbed down, not "consolized" (whatever that means. There are insanely complex games on the console), not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI&nbsp;design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.<br /><br />So on that point, I'm sure we can all agree to disagree, so long as the end product is more choice-driven, offers more "twiddle" to the player's experience in terms of equipment, offers satisfying, constructed encounters and a deep story. DAII&nbsp;clearly didn't deliver on all fronts for you guys. For some it did, but I'm truly, deeply cognizant of the parts that are weak, and while we're not going to agree on everything, there's a game out there that's better than both Origins and DAII, and I'll be damned if the talented folks of the DA team can't find it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Please remember to be cautious on the BioForums, lest your games get disabled.</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/104158-mike-laidlaw-we-stripped-some-stuff-because-origins-qwas-bustedq.html">Gamebanshee</a></p>

 

[Menckenstein]

Give me busted over accessible any day.

 

[racofer]

That's pretty much my goal. Always has been. Lots of people misinterpret "making the game easier to get into" as "stripping out the complexity" but I have never seen those two things as coupled.

If anything, DA's future is more complex, but more subtle and intuitive in how it's presented.

There's also a very large disconnect between where the Dragon Age community thinks we are headed and where we are actually going. As I've noted before, there's two data points in terms of major releases, and I think people have been rather hasty in drawing a line from DAO to DA2 to Devil May Cry. There's a LOT of territory between DA2 and DMC, and if we were truly headed in that direction, we would have made much larger changes. Cut party, remove crafting, one class, etc would all be changes that show a move to action game, but none of those happened. A lot of doom was perceived in the wave combat and changing follower equipment, exaggerated by other faults with the game.

That's quite a small list of changes required to undertake the DMC, Mr. LaidLawesome.

This exact scenario is in Legacy, where you are given different content based on a choice. Some have claimed it's "meaningless," but I'm very glad to see someone's looking for that kind of thing. I suspect that people disliking the choice in Legacy are concerned that small-content choices might be all we ever do, ever again, which would be a concern if that were true, but it's not, so it's not.

"BUT IT'S NOT, SO IT'S NOT!" - THE NEW BIOWARE MOTO!


Imagine if Bioware had made Doom....

 

[Trojan_generic]

Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players. Not dumbed down, not "consolized" (whatever that means. There are insanely complex games on the console),

a) "consolized" and "dumbed down" means "more accessible" to you

b) insanely complex like Madden amirite?

 

[Elzair]

That's pretty much my goal. Always has been. Lots of people misinterpret "making the game easier to get into" as "stripping out the complexity" but I have never seen those two things as coupled.

If anything, DA's future is more complex, but more subtle and intuitive in how it's presented.

There's also a very large disconnect between where the Dragon Age community thinks we are headed and where we are actually going. As I've noted before, there's two data points in terms of major releases, and I think people have been rather hasty in drawing a line from DAO to DA2 to Devil May Cry. There's a LOT of territory between DA2 and DMC, and if we were truly headed in that direction, we would have made much larger changes. Cut party, remove crafting, one class, etc would all be changes that show a move to action game, but none of those happened. A lot of doom was perceived in the wave combat and changing follower equipment, exaggerated by other faults with the game.

That's quite a small list of changes required to undertake the DMC, Mr. LaidLawesome.

This exact scenario is in Legacy, where you are given different content based on a choice. Some have claimed it's "meaningless," but I'm very glad to see someone's looking for that kind of thing. I suspect that people disliking the choice in Legacy are concerned that small-content choices might be all we ever do, ever again, which would be a concern if that were true, but it's not, so it's not.

"BUT IT'S NOT, SO IT'S NOT!" - THE NEW BIOWARE MOTO!


Imagine if Bioware had made Doom....

Racofer, you definitely win the Post of the Day prize. Where the hell did you get that GIF anyway?

 

[racofer]

I'm the Wyrmlord equivalent for GIFs.

 

[Shannow]

Could somebody explain to me what "busted" means in this context? My small non-native-speaking mind cannot apply any sensible meaning.

Otherwise: He's finally full enough with BS to start at Bethesda. Next stop: politics.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Don't really know either. My guess is: overloaded or something. Loaded with so much details and complexities and whatnot that it boggled the mind of the less fortunate, one.handed, otherwise crippled.

 

[racofer]

Could somebody explain to me what "busted" means in this context? My small non-native-speaking mind cannot apply any sensible meaning.

Maybe those game mechanics are no longer used/accepted by Farmville players. DA was just too old-school for the majority of people and it had to change, because change is good.

You know, it's not everybody who is fond of turn based mechanics.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/27085396

Yeah i just found a 360 gameplay trailer on gametrailers.com and I didn't know that Dragon Age was turn based play, now there is nothing to think about i'm not getting it.

just like KOTOR or Jade Empire

Exactly, turn-based games require no skill. It doesn't require the player to think fast or react fast at all.

 

[felipepepe]

Exactly, turn-based games require no skill. It doesn't require the player to think fast or react fast at all.

You may think that, foolish child, BUT IT'S NOT, SO IT'S NOT!

 

[Trojan_generic]

Engrish_Major wrote:
No, like I stated before, the memory limitations alone on consoles can't hold enough textures to be able to replicate Crysis 1.
whoDat_whoDat wrote:
thats why they dont need the memory PS3 has a little something something called Blu-Ray. and its 25 times the size of a petty 2gb SD RAM

Oh wow.

 

[DraQ]

Could somebody explain to me what "busted" means in this context? My small non-native-speaking mind cannot apply any sensible meaning.

I've ran your question through my superb, potato-powered brain and concluded that in this particular context it's an equivalent of dropping one's jaw, crossing one's eyes and saying "derp" in a slurred voice.

 

[Black]

I've said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted

becuase

Yeah, sounds like something bioware would say.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

They took a busted game and dumbed it down so it was busted and dumb.

They should hire a female crackhead as their lead designer for DA 3. Then they can have a broke busted, dumb, crackhead bitch of a game and that beats busted.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

What a bunch of assholes.

 

[20 Eyes]

Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

What's funny is how the Bioware staff mocked the Codex because the general consensus over here was that DA2, before it's release, was sounding like an inferior game compared to the original (which itself isn't exactly lauded on the Codex). Now they've realized they made a shitty game but don't seem willing to change anything that made it so awful.

For some it did, but I'm truly, deeply cognizant of the parts that are weak, and while we're not going to agree on everything, there's a game out there that's better than both Origins and DAII, and I'll be damned if the talented folks of the DA team can't find it.

Take a quick glace at the gaming bargain bin at any retailer and you'll find a better game than either Dragon Age (especially the second one). I doubt the talent on the DA team is capable of making anything memorable.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Funny you should mention that. Dragon Age 2 is in my local game bargain bin. I can buy it for 149 kronor. But I picked up the newest Alone in the Dark game instead for 49 kronor. It's a much better game, I'm not even kidding.

 

[Raghar]

Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

Take a quick glace at the gaming bargain bin at any retailer and you'll find a better game than either Dragon Age (especially the second one). I doubt the talent on the DA team is capable of making anything memorable.

I heard nice stuff about Anders in DA:awakening. It was on presentation about gays in computer games. They said they completely screwed him in DA2, from memorable character, doesn't matter how many problems were with his writing, to completely bland stuff. They also shown an example of mutilation of characters by new faces.

They can make memorable stuff by an accident, but they can't do that consistently.

 

[Regdar]

I know absolutely nothing about Laidlaw except that he comes off as an arrogant, self-righteous prick. Based on the way he talks, however, I'm willing to bet you a large sum of money that this toolbag sold used cars or fax machines or those things you see on telemarketing at some point in his life. He wasn't actively searching for a career in video games, but then the opportunity presented itself and he thought "what the hell, it beats my old job/being unemployed" and through rigorous bootlicking and sexual favors for male superiors, got to where he is now.

Must be nice having his job, though. You take zero part in the development process because you have no clue about video games, then when the game is released you procrastinate for months before posting some unbelievable bullshit which - even more unbelievably - calms every biofaggot and restores public trust in your shitty company.

How come Codex is the only place where people see past this bullshit?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I suppose we're special.

I heard nice stuff about Anders in DA:awakening. It was on presentation about gays in computer games. They said they completely screwed him in DA2

Anders was one of the few characters in DA2 I actually tolerated, mostly because to me he was the real main character and Hawke was just the camera man.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Engrish_Major wrote:
No, like I stated before, the memory limitations alone on consoles can't hold enough textures to be able to replicate Crysis 1.
whoDat_whoDat wrote:
thats why they dont need the memory PS3 has a little something something called Blu-Ray. and its 25 times the size of a petty 2gb SD RAM

Oh wow.

That one hurt.

 

[J_C]

Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

There are insanely complex games on the console

I'm partly a console player, but I yet have to find that insanely complex game. Could you give mi a hint, Mike?

Deeply in my heart, I was hoping that Bioware will learn from their mistake, and make DA3 a good RPG. It is clear to me know, that they are happy about how DA2 turned out, and they will fuck up the third game. Please Bioware, just remove every RPG element, and make a pure action game. I know that is what you want to do, and at least we don't have to argue about the game being an RPG or not.

 

[DraQ]

Engrish_Major wrote:
No, like I stated before, the memory limitations alone on consoles can't hold enough textures to be able to replicate Crysis 1.
whoDat_whoDat wrote:
thats why they dont need the memory PS3 has a little something something called Blu-Ray. and its 25 times the size of a petty 2gb SD RAM

Oh wow.

That one hurt.

My brain, yes.

 

[Drakron]

I know absolutely nothing about Laidlaw ...

Looking at his credits the earliest mention is on "special thanks" in Hoards of the Underdark, he is listed as one of the Lead Writers of Jade Empire so I suspect he was hired for the Jade Empire and then moved to the Dragon Age team ... but how the fuck he managed to became "Dragon Age Franchise Lead Designer" is beyond me, considering positions like that is very much EA ... and considering the corporate model of EA ...

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Funny you should mention that. Dragon Age 2 is in my local game bargain bin. I can buy it for 149 kronor. But I picked up the newest Alone in the Dark game instead for 49 kronor. It's a much better game, I'm not even kidding.

GIVE ME MY STONE!

I DON'T HAVE YOUR STONE AND FUCK YOU ANYWAY!

Its a more interesting exchange than everything in DA2.