Editorial How Morrowind changed the world

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

<a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com>CVG</a> has blessed us with <a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=120732>this article</a> claiming that <a href=http://www.theelderscrolls.com/home/home.htm>Morrowind</a> changed the world and made it a better place for all the idiots like the author of the article.
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<blockquote>While the likes of Baldur's Gate and Diablo looked presentable enough in their day, such games were kept grovelling in the shade by the gloriously-lovely likes of Unreal, Half-Life et al. This was the unwritten rule until spring 2002, when PC roleplayers got their first real taste of succulent eye candy with the release of Morrowind, the long-awaited third instalment of Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls series.</blockquote>I get it now, only FP games are immersive enough to change the world
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<blockquote>Creating this feeling of liberty was a core part of the previous Elder Scrolls games, Arena and Daggerfall, and it was always going to figure in the series' third title. In fact, as project leader Todd Howard points out, Morrowind was originally planned to be extremely similar to its predecessor. "We first came up with the idea around 1996, during Daggerfall's final days. The initial concept was to build on the Daggerfall codebase and do it like that, but in high resolution."</blockquote>Wow, this Todd guy sure is a genius. I betcha he said the same thing about Oblivion: "Let's build on the MW codebase but in high resolution. Let's not forget to dumb it down too". One can't fail with a formula like that.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[LlamaGod]

If you think Morrowind is non-linear, you have no place to talk about RPGs.

It's more of the more linear games i've played.

Sure you can run around and shit, but when you actually get around to actually doing things beyond looking at rivers, angry wildlife and muddy textures, its linear as shit.

Action games have always been like that, except on a smaller scale. In Crash Bandicoot, you can run around all over the level select screen! Yay! Non-linearity! oh wait the levels are a straight path.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

And we're still surprised by the shit people say. I say fuck em. Let em keep their linear games.

 

[Ellester]

I always say one day I’ll get back to Morrowind and finally finish the game. But, it just never happens. Must be, because I always can think of something better to play.

 

[Drakron]

The only thing Morrowind did was being a very bugged game released on a console that became GotY on that console, it lowered quality standarts of console titles.

 

[Claw]

Bah, pixel shaders.

It was too big, too grand in conception, too overwhelming in scope to ever be produced. It was a miracle.

Whenever I feel like giving Bethesda credit, they (or their fans) give themselves so much the feeling is literally inverted.

 

[Grantus]

On Morrowind

If you think Morrowind is non-linear, you have no place to talk about RPGs.

It's more of the more linear games i've played.

Sure you can run around and shit, but when you actually get around to actually doing things beyond looking at rivers, angry wildlife and muddy textures, its linear as shit.

I signed up here awhile back and have been debating when to introduce myself. I guess I'll risk some wrath by responding to this post.

Let's put my cards up front, I'm a fan of Morrowind. Sure, it has flaws, but I guess I don't quite understand the hate toward it here.

I don't quite understand the criticism that it's "linear as shit." I haven't played every PC RPG out there, but I've played quite a few, and I don't remember any that's less linear than Morrowind. Sure, if you want to complete the main quest, you have to do some things in order, but there's eight or ten factions you can do quests for. Heck, you can just wander around and kill things, if that's what turns you on.

I guess I'd like to hear about any RPGs that are less linear than Morrowind because I'd like to play them.

As for the first-person criticisms of Morrowind, I'm not a big fan of first-person games, either. I play Morrowind almost exclusively in the third-person mode, using first person only when I'm using a ranged weapon. It does have a third-person mode, you know.

I think the point of the article in question is that Morrowind's graphics were more engaging than the 2D graphics of some earlier RPGs. Call me a graphics whore, but I can't disagree.

 

[Percolator Fish]

Irrational dislike for Morrowind ahoy! You blew my mind Llama! If you are going to call Morrowind linear, I don't see how anybody can take you seriously in this discussion/argument.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Re: On Morrowind

Let's put my cards up front, I'm a fan of Morrowind.

We are sorry to hear that, but the good news is, it's not a permanent condition. You can help yourself by playing many better games.

I don't quite understand the criticism that it's "linear as shit."

Do you understand the term "linear" at least? That would be a start.

Sure, if you want to complete the main quest, you have to do some things in order, but there's eight or ten factions you can do quests for. Heck, you can just wander around and kill things, if that's what turns you on.

You are clearly confusing freedom to do meaningful things and freedom to do pointless sidequests to kill time and level up a lot.

I guess I'd like to hear about any RPGs that are less linear than Morrowind because I'd like to play them.

Fallout, Prelude to Darkness, Wiz 8, Arcanum (there are some linear sequences though), Darklands, ToEE (really great example of true non-linearity), first parts of Gothic 1&2, etc

I think the point of the article in question is that Morrowind's graphics were more engaging than the 2D graphics of some earlier RPGs. Call me a graphics whore, but I can't disagree.

Well, that's not really a reason to claim that MW made the world a better place, is it?

 

[Sol Invictus]

ToEE is really too damn short a game to be considered in those terms.

 

[Claw]

I would include Fallout 2 in the list of games better than Morrowind, tbh.

 

[Vault Dweller]

True, but the non-linearity is there. You can do pretty much whatever you want there: you can find the location of the temple in different ways, you can enter the temple from different points, you can take different routes within the temple, and you can end the game in many different ways.

 

[Ismaul]

What VD said. (in the other post above)

Plus, I never found Morrowind's graphics good and I really don't understand how people can like it so much. The faces! Did you look at the faces? Teh horror! What about the blocky world? You look at a character or a street, and if feels like an association of parts instead of a whole. Give me undistinguishable faces any day over ugly ones. Gothic 1 and Fallout had much better graphic, even with lower technology.

Morrowind is the game where they got it all wrong: freedom (aka hidden linearity), dialogues, combat, graphics... Well, except the splash screens and the music, and it's still debatable. :shock:

 

[Grantus]

Re: On Morrowind

Do you understand the term "linear" at least? That would be a start.

Fallout, Prelude to Darkness, Wiz 8, Arcanum (there are some linear sequences though), Darklands, ToEE (really great example of true non-linearity), first parts of Gothic 1&2, etc

Well, that's not really a reason to claim that MW made the world a better place, is it?

I guess we'll have to disagree on what linear means. To me, "freedom" and "non-linear" may not be exactly the same thing, but they're close cousins.

I'd agree that Fallout was non-linear. I have ToEE on my machine these days and can't seem to make myself play it for some reason. (Maybe I need a better manual -- I downloaded from one of those pay-per download sites.)

I have Wiz 8 around, too, but the first person thing annoys me too much. And I can't seem to get beyond the weird control setup long enough to enjoy Gothic 2. (Plus, I get killed the first time a rat attacks me. Oh well.)

Has Prelude to Darkness ever moved beyond beta? I'll have to download it and take a look.

As for the graphics thing, no MW didn't make the world a better place. I've been playing with graphic enhancing plugins lately, but I'd argue that 3D graphics are more engaging than 2D graphics. That's my only point, not that MW was god's gift to gaming.

 

[fnordcircle]

If you think Morrowind is non-linear, you have no place to talk about RPGs.

It's more of the more linear games i've played.

Sure you can run around and shit, but when you actually get around to actually doing things beyond looking at rivers, angry wildlife and muddy textures, its linear as shit.

Yeah, it's not like there are a thousand side quests that you can choose to do instead of ignoring the main quest. It's also not like you can use persuasion or sneak to avoid combat situations when a quest calls for it.

Apparently the hundreds of hours I've spent playing Morrowind having never completed the main quest in preference for exploring and side quests were all a mirage.

RPGCodex: Redefining the term 'non-linear'.

 

[Shagnak]

freedom (aka hidden linearity)

This is a pretty good description of what Morrowind gives you in terms of freedom.
I really don't think you can classify the game as a whole into the absolutes of "linear" and "non-linear", as different aspects of the game reflect different sides of the coin. Gameplay outside of the main plot is non-linear - you can fuck around and do what you want, become a trader if that's what gives you a stiffy, explore, whatever.

But the central plot is unerringly linear. No matter what type of character you are, you have to do those same main missions in the same order, with the same outcome.

I don't mind doing some of the former, especially if there are incidental side-quests to make it more interesting; but the latter is rather sad. Why tout "freedom" as a quality and then lock the player into a linear route for what most players will consider the most important aspect (i.e. the central quest)?

I actually enjoyed Morrowind, unlike most people here (oh no!!), but you would have to be blind to miss that fatal flaw.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

I have Wiz 8 around, too, but the first person thing annoys me too much

Yet, you like Morrowind?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I have Wiz 8 around, too, but the first person thing annoys me too much

Yet, you like Morrowind?

As for the first-person criticisms of Morrowind, I'm not a big fan of first-person games, either. I play Morrowind almost exclusively in the third-person mode, using first person only when I'm using a ranged weapon.

 

[Grantus]

I have Wiz 8 around, too, but the first person thing annoys me too much

Yet, you like Morrowind?

Yeah, because I play it almost entirely in third person mode, as I noted above.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Yeah, it's not like there are a thousand side quests that you can choose to do instead of ignoring the main quest. It's also not like you can use persuasion or sneak to avoid combat situations when a quest calls for it.

The bulk of those quests were nothing more than FedEx quests, replace the combat with unbelievable dull dialog trees (GASP!) and there you go.

Apparently the hundreds of hours I've spent playing Morrowind having never completed the main quest in preference for exploring and side quests were all a mirage.

Just because you wander around and do side-quests does not make it a non-linear game. You can do the same in Freedom Force, but would you say it's non-linear?

RPGCodex: Redefining the term 'non-linear'.

Fnordcircle: Redifining the term "dumbfuck".

@ Grantus - Sorry, my mistake. I myself found Morrowind to be an exclusively first-person game, due to the nature of the combat and such.

 

[Grantus]

freedom (aka hidden linearity)

This is a pretty good description of what Morrowind gives you in terms of freedom.
I really don't think you can classify the game as a whole into the absolutes of "linear" and "non-linear", as different aspects of the game reflect different sides of the coin. Gameplay outside of the main plot is non-linear - you can fuck around and do what you want, become a trader if that's what gives you a stiffy, explore, whatever.

But the central plot is unerringly linear. No matter what type of character you are, you have to do those same main missions in the same order, with the same outcome.

I don't mind doing some of the former, especially if there are incidental side-quests to make it more interesting; but the latter is rather sad. Why tout "freedom" as a quality and then lock the player into a linear route for what most players will consider the most important aspect (i.e. the central quest)?

I actually enjoyed Morrowind, unlike most people here (oh no!!), but you would have to be blind to miss that fatal flaw.

I 'd agree that the main quest is fairly linear. But then, like others have said here, I've played Morrowind for many hours and never finished the main quest. You have the freedom to play dozens of side quests.

Compare that to many so-called RPGs available, which few side quests and maybe two different ways to finish the main quest. In fact, many don't even offer different ways to finish the main quest. If MW has that "fatal flaw," so do scores of other RPGs.

So one might argue that the main quest is quite linear, and I couldn't disagree. But that's a different thing than arguing the whole game is very linear.

I'm not arguing that Morrowind is a perfect game by any means. A couple of different routes to finish the main quest would've been cool. The combat is lacking, but then, that makes Morrowind no worse than 90 percent of the computer RPGs out there. (And you can download combat improvement mods that aren't bad.)

 

[Shagnak]

Just because you wander around and do side-quests does not make it a non-linear game. You can do the same in Freedom Force, but would you say it's non-linear?

No, but there is a massive difference in scope here. The sheer size of land area and number of side-quests, and even non-side-quest-kinda-things that you can do makes those things as a collective whole (i.e. non-main-plot material) a lot less linear than the same aspects in Freedom Force.

But the main quest in each is as linear as the other. Hence my conclusion that you can't lump an assessment of Morrowind's linearity into one overall judgement. Or, if you try to, no-one can agree.

I'll shut up now.
Flame away!! :wink:

Edit:

Grantus: I think we have a similar view. But either way, ths is just one of those pointless arguments that never get agreement and lead to pointless arguments about nothing in particular. In fact, if I had been wise, I shouldn't have even participated.
Welcome to the Codex! :wink:

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Freedom and options on how to do events have nothing to do with linearity. Linearity is all about how the story is progressed. If you have to go from plot point A to plot point B to plot point C and so on in an exact order, then the game is linear.

 

[Jed]

Yeah, it's not like there are a thousand side quests that you can choose to do instead of ignoring the main quest. It's also not like you can use persuasion or sneak to avoid combat situations when a quest calls for it. Apparently the hundreds of hours I've spent playing Morrowind having never completed the main quest in preference for exploring and side quests were all a mirage. RPGCodex: Redefining the term 'non-linear'.

You're confusing "non-linear" with "sandbox."

 

[Shagnak]

So it has freedom (ways of playing the game), but is very linear (plot)?
Okay, sounds reasonable to me.

(But under that there cannot be many games that are not linear, but perhaps that is true)