About an hour in to System Shock 2, so far, not impressed

[Roguey]

Not only does it have an extremely oppressive audio-visual atmosphere,

I didn't get this impression at all. As I mentioned earlier, Quake has creepier sound and art direction. This was more like Quake 2, if it was much clunkier and had significantly narrower levels.

The enemies are infinite, resources are very limited, weapons keep breaking down, and even the lowliest enemies like worms can easily kill you if you're not careful.

The respawning enemies weren't a big deal (especially since you usually only meet them one at a time), and while resources were scarce enough to encourage me not to shoot too much for the first 3 1/2 levels, it wasn't a concern at all from that point on. Never had an issue with broken weapons either.

I'm aware that higher difficulties make it less likely to find items on dead enemies, but I stuck with normal. I guess anything can be "horror" if you play on the highest difficulty.

Compounding that, on the first playthrough, you never know if you have enough supplies for the rest of the game, and all those anti-robot weapons you've been saving and upgrading and levelling for the late game? Fuck you, the last 1/4 only has organic enemies :trollgame:

Standard weapons can handle organic and robotic enemies perfectly fine, and energy being worthless is bad design.

 

[Jick Magger]

Deadspace is utter shit, tried it, POV sucks, uninstalled.

Keep the consoletrash out of the topic.

you're a fool.

dead space 1 and 3 are phenomenal games and highly recommended to anyone who enjoyed system shock 2.

dead space 2 is an okay game but is not on par with 1 and 3.

i'll be replaying all three games sometime in 2015-2016 when i get a new computer along with one of those super-high resolution ultra-wide monitors which all 3 dead space games natively support.

i just cant stress how good dead space 3 is. i too was put off by the PR campaign and ended up playing the game years later when i bought it during a charity event for a dollar. wow.. was i pleasantly surprised at just how great the game was. it's the only game that truly captured the feel of the hit motion picture "the thing"

you go from dystopian cities to abandoned industrial ships to secret research facilities buried in ice and more. it's absolutely amazing and not only that - there are optional objectives, that means entirely new areas with their own artwork, monsters, weapons and upgrades and story elements that are completely optional to explore.

this is the hidden gem of the dead space series that no one on these boards (including me until the 1 dollar sale) played. if you enjoyed dead space 1 dont miss out on this fantastic installment to the series.

such a wonderful game and it's a shame we'll never see a dead space 4 because of the treasonous and disgusting acts of the marketing dept. whose advertising campaign was so off base it scuttled the game in the eyes of loyal fans before it hit shelves. naturally the developers were blamed.

dead space 3 keeps intact the core-gameplay of the first 2 games and there is no need for micro-transactions, in fact i believe the game was designed and balanced without micro-transactions in mind.

Seriously, the idea that anyone would think Dead Space 3 is the best of the lot fucking baffles me. About the only, only thing it has going on the other two games is the snow aesthetic, which at least tried something different from the wrecked spaceship/space station design of the other two games. The 'optional objectives' basically just amounted to wandering around copy pasted abandoned ships to find absolutely trivial rewards, the gameplay is a complete step down from the other two with absolutely no thought put behind things like monster placement (90% of the game is just you being rushed by slasher necromorphs and those assholes with pickaxes), and the writers made the absofuckinglutely baffling decision to make a love triangle a primary plot point in the game.

 

[Tehdagah]

Dead Space 3 is the only in the series that let you play with a bro.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Good horror game with more than one playable character at once? Is that compute?

 

[Gozma]

I tried to play SS2 recently and I can't handle audiologs and journal entries lying around anymore. It was "transparent" to me playing it years ago but now I can't fucking manage it. It's like if after Princess Bride came out every movie had a framing narrative where Columbo is reading the movie to you except way more contrived

 

[Roguey]

If you want really good level design from start to finish play the first System Shock, a much better and more balanced game imo, even though it lacks all the RPG stuff.

If Ken Levine got one thing right, it was his insistence that SS2 have a more accessible interface. That and the weird-looking cyberspace sections have kept me away, though I'm aware I can specifically turn down the difficulty on those. Maybe one day.

And that day has finally passed. Elthosian was right, I liked SS more than SS2. The interface is unnecessarily clunky, trying to throw a grenade isn't worth it, cyberspace turned out to be as annoying as I figured it would, and I had to turn the music down to a softer volume to avoid getting a headache, but nearly everything else is top-notch. Great level design, rooms and hallways with multiple enemies to be fought at once instead of just one at a time for the longest time, weapons, and minigames without random elements. It feels like truly charting out your own path because unlike the Levine Shocks, you don't start out with an instructor telling you what to do and where to go next; you have to rely on exploring and picking up dead peoples' audio logs to succeed at doing what they failed. Additionally, the level design encourages making frequent notes on the map, which I don't recall ever doing in SS2.

When it comes to content flaws, I think the button that takes down the forcefield on the isotope could have been more obvious (I genuinely thought I needed a radioactive suit to grab it, so I ended up skipping ahead and clearing out levels 3-5 and even most of the reactor trying to figure out how I was supposed to get to that radioactive suit in 3 before I gave in and looked up online that I was overthinking it and worrying about something I didn't yet need to worry about), and finding out on level 7 that I needed to go back to levels 1-6 and write down a number on a screen was some aggravating minor time padding (it also took more time than it should to find the cpu room on level 5 because I had forgotten where it was and it's in a not-particularly-obvious location). The final cyberspace sequence was also underwhelming, particularly its boss fight with a lack of sound effects, voice, and even destruction animation. At least it's not as long as SS2's underwhelming final sequence.

Finally, I was disappointed to find out that the famous "Look at you hacker" double entendre isn't even in the the actual game, and also amused at all the references to Shodan as "he/him" that they couldn't be bothered to rewrite when they decided to make Shodan a woman. It's my interpretation that Shodan was programmed to be male but it insisted on the female voice and appearance on its own; a deranged transgender, transgod AI.

Despite the flaws, this quickly became my favorite Shock. I have Prey ready to go in my queue so in the near-future I'll have thoughts about where that ranks as well.

 

[cvv]

There are very few games that can hold candle to the sheer style and cool and music and sound design and vibe of SS1. When it came out in the early 1990 it was like a chrome lightning burning its way straight into your brain. Doug Church at al. created a genuine masterpiece.

The sequel is a great space survival and I remember it fondly but it isn't a masterpiece. It's like the comparison between Wizardry 7 and Wizardry 8 - a true once-in-a-lifetime work of a genius vs. an extremely competent sequel by talented epigones. In both cases the sequel is valued more by many simply because it's prettier and more accessible.

 

[Ash]

Bullshit. Other way around. System Shock 1 is a dumbed down Sci-Fi Ultima Underworld
...only half serious. However System Shock 2 is indeed a goddamn masterpiece, dead serious.

Wait, I missed it at first...Roguey FINALLY levelled up from playing and assigning value to one of the biggest disgraces and retard cases in gaming: Bioshock!



I'll drink to that.

 

[schru]

Roguey, you might be interested to hear what the music sounds like on SC-55, which should be the module it was composed on or close to it* (the recordings are Unreal's, I added a few SC VA recordings, which is a more recent module that emulates SC-55 closely); also, unlike last time I posted it in the other thread, the set now contains lossless rips of the bonus tracks from the Macintosh version: https://mega.nz/file/LBlEQTaL#5IZlRE58Ky_c3kvl-gJKsWXmnNxdhxArUNZzpM6jHBE

*The composer talks about it in a lengthy developer play-through at some point, but it's difficult to find the spot. In some places, people mention a podcast where LoPiccolo is supposed to have identified the synthesizer as a Roland device, so at any rate, even if it was a different module, all of Roland's General MIDI devices at the time would have belonged to the same family, with SC-55 and its subsequent versions being the most versatile and having the best-quality samples.

 

[mkultra]

i remember having all my synths and drum machines hooked up for some games back in the day lol, tweaking patches to get it to sound good (if something wasn't General MIDI), such a weird thing when you think back on it haha.

I always preferred SS2 over SS, but SS was incredible at the time. SS2 music is still great, graphics (the geometry, level design) still works because it makes sense (most of the time), unlike many other games from that period..

 

[DraQ]

SS2 versus SS1 is a question of tension + atmosphere VS overall quality.
There is no good, clear cut answer here, it would be best to have both.

 

[mindx2]

SS2 versus SS1 is a question of tension + atmosphere VS overall quality.
There is no good, clear cut answer here, it would be best to have both.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/system-shock-1-vs-2-which-is-better-and-why.107086/

 

[Morenatsu.]

Finally, I was disappointed to find out that the famous "Look at you hacker" double entendre isn't even in the the actual game, and also amused at all the references to Shodan as "he/him" that they couldn't be bothered to rewrite when they decided to make Shodan a woman. It's my interpretation that Shodan was programmed to be male but it insisted on the female voice and appearance on its own; a deranged transgender, transgod AI.

oh yeah well my headcanon is that Shodan and all other evil AIs are actually demon possessed computers, because AI doesn't exist and is the invention of teh devilz (just like transgenderism lololololol)

Roguey, you might be interested to hear what the music sounds like on SC-55, which should be the module it was composed on or close to it* (the recordings are Unreal's, I added a few SC VA recordings, which is a more recent module that emulates SC-55 closely); also, unlike last time I posted it in the other thread, the set now contains lossless rips of the bonus tracks from the Macintosh version: https://mega.nz/file/LBlEQTaL#5IZlRE58Ky_c3kvl-gJKsWXmnNxdhxArUNZzpM6jHBE

*The composer talks about it in a lengthy developer play-through at some point, but it's difficult to find the spot. In some places, people mention a podcast where LoPiccolo is supposed to have identified the synthesizer as a Roland device, so at any rate, even if it was a different module, all of Roland's General MIDI devices at the time would have belonged to the same family, with SC-55 and its subsequent versions being the most versatile and having the best-quality samples.

There's a trailer for Terra Nova with SC-55 music. Roland confirmed.

 

[Roguey]

oh yeah well my headcanon is that Shodan and all other evil AIs are actually demon possessed computers, because AI doesn't exist and is the invention of teh devilz (just like transgenderism lololololol)

Shodan doesn't start out evil, she only gets that way because the hacker removed her ethical constraints at Diego's request.

 

[Morenatsu.]

oh yeah well my headcanon is that Shodan and all other evil AIs are actually demon possessed computers, because AI doesn't exist and is the invention of teh devilz (just like transgenderism lololololol)

Shodan doesn't start out evil, she only gets that way because the hacker removed her ethical constraints at Diego's request.

Just like how born serial killers aren't evil until they actually do it, right.

 

[Roguey]

Just like how born serial killers aren't evil until they actually do it, right.

A part of her mind was removed, a rough equivalent of a brain injury changing someone's personality.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Imagine storing morality in your brain wtf lmao

 

[thelegend]

I remember scrambling for pc magazine cds for system shock 2 demo. People used to sell demo cds in black market in those days.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I never played SS1 but a FPS with no mouselook? Come on duders.

I was hooked on SS2 from the first article I read about it. It sounded so cool. I got it and my computer couldn't really handle it, it was choppy and I couldn't use certain psi powers or the game would lag up something fierce. Regardless, I pushed through as a navy hacker dude. The atmosphere worked very well for me, I don't remember the music all that much. What got me were the creepy lines from the zombies, when they were looking for you after you set off an alarm or what have you. It really got young me's heart pounding. I probably played up to hydroponics or so, and couldn't deal with the poor performance. It was probably crashing left and right, but I don't remember.


Then years and years later I wanted to play it again, and bought it off GOG. I believe I turned off the music because it kinda took away from the atmosphere. The game was extremely tense at first, until I started quicksaving constantly. That drained all the tension out of the game for me. A zombie jumping you by surprise and yelling "RUN!" makes you jump the first few times, but without the fear of losing resources/progress, it wasn't tense.

As an RPG, it was far superior to bioshock.
As a 'horror' or 'atmospheric' game, it was far superior to bioshock.
As an exploration and mystery solving game, it was superior to bioshock.
As a shooter, it was very inferior to bioshock. I doubt anyone got it because they wanted to play a shooter, but its worth noting.


If I had a time machine and all I could do with it was change system shock 2, I would have made one big change that would have improved the atmosphere and tension of the game:

No saving/reloading. Instead, the game constantly autosaves, like Diablo 2. There are already resurrection chambers in the game, so it wouldn't even be a big change. In easy mode, the resurrection chambers are free, so it wouldn't become unwinnable through attrition for people who couldn't handle it. Yes, I'm aware the option exists already to play this way, but I doubt many people experienced the game that way.

 

[Roguey]

I never played SS1 but a FPS with no mouselook? Come on duders.

It was the early 90s, no shooters had mouselook. SS, Doom, Wolf3D were designed without it. The Enhanced Edition creates a toggle for it though (just as zdoom mods it into Doom).

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I never played SS1 but a FPS with no mouselook? Come on duders.

It was the early 90s, no shooters had mouselook. SS, Doom, Wolf3D were designed without it. The Enhanced Edition creates a toggle for it though (just as zdoom mods it into Doom).

Oh I know, I lived it! Pg up and pg dn to look up and down. But it's really hard to go back to that after it's become standard.

It's funny, I remember playing doom back in the day when it was new, and one of the options was mouse control. Mouse side to side looked side to side. Mouse forward and back made you walk forward and back. Like, come on man, could you imagine playing the game like that, contantly moving the mouse forward, picking it up, bringing it back, and moving it forward, over and over? Back then it seemed logical, for some reason, to play with a joystick.

Of course DOOM didn't really have verticality, but it appeared to. I remember when my friend talked me into using +mouselook in quake and I haven't looked back.

 

[cvv]

You don't need a mouse to kill Hitler.

In Wolf3D.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

You don't need a mouse to kill Hitler.

In Wolf3D.

Wolf 3d didn't even have fake verticality like doom, did it? I mean, was there ever a time you'd want to look up or down?

 

[cvv]

You don't need a mouse to kill Hitler.

In Wolf3D.

Wolf 3d didn't even have fake verticality like doom, did it? I mean, was there ever a time you'd want to look up or down?

Of course not, it was all on a flat plane.

Best gaym ever, played the shit out of it as a wee lad.

"EINE KLEINE AMERIKAANE AAAHAHAHAHA!"

 

[Morenatsu.]

As a shooter, it was very inferior to bioshock. I doubt anyone got it because they wanted to play a shooter, but its worth noting.

The shooting was the worst part of Bioshock, what the fuck are you talking about?