Game News Age of Decadence Demo Released

[circ]

You'll want atleast 50 to do dual techniques.

 

[vrok]

I did the merchant robbery and the gate stuff, haven't seen any other robbery quests. A few quests were indeed completed badly, as I had not enough persuasion, lore, etiquette, etc. to solve them optimally. The mine is a required quest for praetors.

I think if there were more SP to go around, people would be able to build optimal builds that can solve every quest, and most of them in the 'best' manner (powergaming wise).

There already is. The optimal build is don't pick combat skills and just solve everything through dialogue windows. It's more skill point efficient and in my experience can always provide the best outcome.

 

[shihonage]

I'm surprised the AoD release threads haven't been merged into one by now.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

So how do you guys get enough steel and iron to craft shit that requires like 20 lb of it for an armor? I can get enough bronze but I ain't even close to get enough steel for a steel forged armor.

 

[Tigranes]

Not sure which one you mean by 'merchant robbery', but as praetor you should be looking at:

Spoiler

Aemolas and refugees at the gate; pickpocketers by a well between tavern and gate; Miltiades and his 'smuggler shop' in the marketplace; Bandit Camp; Mine; Initial Sohrab intercept quest. I think praetors don't do the kebab stand, but maybe that's wrong.

So sounds like you haven't looked around all of Teron. Also, is the mine really required? Can't you just deal with the bandits, who are quite a bit easier to kill off, and that's enough to then talk to Antiades and start the endgame with Dellar's support?

 

[Marsal]

So how do you guys get enough steel and iron to craft shit that requires like 20 lb of it for an armor? I can get enough bronze but I ain't even close to get enough steel for a steel forged armor.

What background are you playing? You know you can decompose stuff?

I'm surprised the AoD release threads haven't been merged into one by now.

And rob Codex of parallel bitching? I think not, sir!

 

[vrok]

Not sure which one you mean by 'merchant robbery', but as praetor you should be looking at:

Spoiler

Aemolas and refugees at the gate; pickpocketers by a well between tavern and gate; Miltiades and his 'smuggler shop' in the marketplace; Bandit Camp; Mine; Initial Sohrab intercept quest. I think praetors don't do the kebab stand, but maybe that's wrong.

So sounds like you haven't looked around all of Teron. Also, is the mine really required? Can't you just deal with the bandits, who are quite a bit easier to kill off, and that's enough to then talk to Antiades and start the endgame with Dellar's support?

I did all those that are possible for praetors except the well which I hadn't found because I had no reason to go there ever. Did it now for a whopping 3 skill points. And yes, the mine is really required. The mine is the main quest for praetors.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

So how do you guys get enough steel and iron to craft shit that requires like 20 lb of it for an armor? I can get enough bronze but I ain't even close to get enough steel for a steel forged armor.

What background are you playing? You know you can decompose stuff?

I'm surprised the AoD release threads haven't been merged into one by now.

And rob Codex of parallel bitching? I think not, sir!

Yeah I'm mostly buying and decomposing a bronze armor to get enough for the +8 DR armor, which allows me to survive (just barely).

 

[Marsal]

Yeah I'm mostly buying and decomposing a bronze armor to get enough for the +8 DR armor, which allows me to survive (just barely).

Well go out and kill some fools and take their shit! If you kill enough dudes, you'll have enough iron weapons to melt into armor. You can acquire enough steel too, but that's a bit harder (don't want to spoil it for you).

Come to think of it, combat focused characters sure get a lot of gold in the game. I think I had over 5000 + steel armor and a couple of weapons and shields the last game I played as a Merc. This needs some balancing.

 

[circ]

Ok went ahead with test merc 2, dodge 2h hammer guy. Haven't done IG tower, but did finally beat mining camp combat. However, it's really down to pure chance. You don't want any crit hits on you lowering stats, which is not easy if you're wearing manica as it has like 5 to crit protection. I was left with 3 hp. No nets or other wuss tactics just pound the fuck out of them with a sledgehammer. I did also try with the IG iron armor, whatever it's called again. Dodge got blown to shit and the extra DR didn't last till the end. I had um, 63 dodge maybe. Noticed that 50 crafting wasn't good enough for later so saved up sp for that instead of blowing it all on dodge. As every 20 points of crafting is an extra dr to weapons and armor. Otherwise, 70 dodge char shouldn't have too much trouble maybe. But considering previously my 11+ dr chars have done that fucking thing without pretty much a scratch, dodge why do you suck so much?

Also, funtastics. Crafting 50 masterwork gave -20% to dodge/sneak penalties, however that's calculated up the ass and you get like 2%. But 60 crafting gave -25%, a whole 5% more. Except it didn't actually do a single fucking point because of, calculus from asshole international. Still, one extra point of dr is worth 60 crafting for armor, well, anything but leather.

 

[hiver]

So allow a CON roll to prevent side effects from crits?

OTOH, then the enemies could do that, too, and it would favor high con builds even more, hmm...

In larger battles, chances will always be in favor of the enemies, as the player gets hit more often.

CON needs to be made useful. It's a dump stat even for melee focused combat characters and that's just wrong. Making CON give extra DR that only stacks with light armor DR, critical resistance, ... extra HP just isn't enough. The problem is, like you say, that NPCs benefit from CON changes too and they don't use it as a dump stat. It's not an easy fix.

It should govern AP points together with Dex. On top oh HP pool. Maximum Con of 10 should allow the player to survive some deadly traps... and they are all deadly as i understand.
Maybe something more in that style.

 

[Marsal]

Ok went ahead with test merc 2, dodge 2h hammer guy. Haven't done IG tower, but did finally beat mining camp combat. However, it's really down to pure chance. You don't want any crit hits on you lowering stats, which is not easy if you're wearing manica as it has like 5 to crit protection. I was left with 3 hp. No nets or other wuss tactics just pound the fuck out of them with a sledgehammer. I did also try with the IG iron armor, whatever it's called again. Dodge got blown to shit and the extra DR didn't last till the end. I had um, 63 dodge maybe. Noticed that 50 crafting wasn't good enough for later so saved up sp for that instead of blowing it all on dodge. As every 20 points of crafting is an extra dr to weapons and armor. Otherwise, 70 dodge char shouldn't have too much trouble maybe. But considering previously my 11+ dr chars have done that fucking thing without pretty much a scratch, dodge why do you suck so much?

Also, funtastics. Crafting 50 masterwork gave -20% to dodge/sneak penalties, however that's calculated up the ass and you get like 2%. But 60 crafting gave -25%, a whole 5% more. Except it didn't actually do a single fucking point because of, calculus from asshole international. Still, one extra point of dr is worth 60 crafting for armor, well, anything but leather.

Isn't that +3DR for 9 AP characters as you can make the heaviest armor allow for 9AP (instead of 8)? +1 for steel, +1 for improved hardening, +1 heavier armor. Total of 13DR, IIRC.

It should govern AP points together with Dex. On top oh HP pool. Maximum Con of 10 should allow the player to survive some deadly traps... and they are all deadly as i understand.
Maybe something more in that style.

Wouldn't that make DEX less useful? Why would a character choose DEX over CON, if they both give AP, but CON also gives extra HP? Would an agile character need both DEX and CON to be agile?

You don't want stats to overlap in their effect, makes for a messy design, IMO.

While I'd like it changed in a way to make barbarian type characters feasible (lots of HP, high AP, light armor, 2-H weapon) and your way does allow that, it also messes with other archetypes.

 

[hiver]

No, no... The overall complete APs are calculated from appropriate synergy from Dex and Con. Dex can still have a bigger influence on the issue, but Con has an effect too.
IT will know best what the ratio should be.

Nothing makes a messy design if you do it right. This makes sense from some kind of realistic pov and more importantly, it makes sense in the game itself.

 

[circ]

I was going to say that makes no fucking sense because what the fuck does con have to do with AP, but hey, it's endurance, so it makes sense.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

No, no... The overall complete APs are calculated from appropriate synergy from Dex and Con. Dex can still have a bigger influence on the issue, but Con has an effect too.
IT will know best what the ratio should be.

Nothing makes a messy design if you do it right. This makes sense from some kind of realistic pov and more importantly, it makes sense in the game itself.

This is actually a decent idea because it solves two problems: not only is CON currently a dump stat, but DEX is also overpowered in that it affects so many skills and gives AP.

 

[hiver]

Yup. Dex is overpowered enough. Not only does it solely governs APs, but influences starting skills points and sequence in combat. And dodging. And climbing onto houses. And jumping through he windows. And catching thieves. Running away from bad men with shiny weapons. And success in butt secxs.


Also, i think i found it. The big one.

Gather around you popamole loving bastards and listen awhile :p
de spirits be sayin`:


Ive just started a combat focused praetor play.
Right off the bat im sent to Nelios and during conversation get an option to use a persuasion+intelligence check based attempt at getting more info... and possibly more.
I fail, even though my intelligence is at 7... so i guess its because of low persuasion. Details aside... there was no warning whatsoever of any kind about it. Such a heavy check being right at the start focused on two important skills... is really forcing me, the player, to go down a specific road of restarting and reloading. Why? Because i get a nice big failure notification. Right after the bait of showing me the option of that angle being available.

Now, the bait has some use because it shows you what skills (+ an attribute in this case) you need to make that gameplay or solution road open up.

The result, pointed out in nice shiny brackets sticking it out to me, visible at the very start of Neilos answer - serves no in game purpose.
Quite the contrary - it directly serves the opposite, not desirable or needed purpose of sending me out of the game to change my starting attribute and skill values.
And i just started playing.

Its one time only possibility too. Once you loose it its gone. I dont think you can go back later and talk to Nelios about that precise issue again.

- This little thing creates three separate negative effects, first two are already largely covered by numerous posts here. Its the "too difficult check right at the start" issue and the "cannot anticipate it or get any kind of info or warning about it before i smack my face into it" issue.
The third is the "big one" i mentioned but its not based only on this example.

Lets just continue a bit further without restarting and changing skills.

I go on and get a assignment to intercept Aurelian patrol guiding a loremaster to their outpost at the temple.
Luckily i have the option of not going at once and to go prepare in the city.

I do so, I buy myself a spear which i didnt get after creation of my praetor and sell the gladius i never wanted to use. I spend the skills points i got and then return to Dellar. I fail to convince him to talk about his past of caravan raider because of my low Charisma.
The brackets tell me i failed specifically because of my charisma. Dellar sends me to the mission.
Im teleported straight in front of Aurelians and their Loremaster. (maybe it would have been a bit better to just get me into a small map of woods and let me find them on my own?)

Luckily my Etiquette works and i convince them to come with me and enjoy some Daratan hospitality.

I get a nice big success... in big shiny brackets at the start of their answer so i know my etiquette was big enough.
Although i dont see why would Aurelian patrol accept anything from me. Its not like Aurelian house is subservient to Daratan. They are even in Daratan territory, effectively occupying and guarding by force an old temple.
Loremaster was taken there to perform an investigation and further expand their findings.

My line offered no special reason why they should come with me. Just a general invitation. Their patrol was stronger then what support i had and i was at my lowest level and had no equipment except one lowly spear.
They could have just slaughtered us and continued with their business. I didnt threaten them - just asked nicely.

Turns out Daratan hospitality is given by a surprise visit to the torture chamber for the poor Loremaster. Patrol was presumably killed off although thats not especially explained by Dellar as he tells me all about it.
Then i have two options:
1. Wait
2. Let me talk to Loremaster first.

I had no idea what that wait actually means in the context. Am i saying "wait" to Dellar so he should wait with the torture or... what exactly?
Turns out its me waiting for the torture to finish.... but then i have to reload because i clearly loosed an opportunity for something here.

Couldnt this be said with a few more words?
Like "wait for torture interrogation to finish" instead of just "wait" ?

Then i talk to the Loremaster and fail a persuasion check.
Once that short interview is over i go away and Loremaster gets tortured, upon which he reveals what little he knows and then gets additional torture just to be sure he told the truth.

So he is gone and i cannot ever go back and extract that bit he concealed from me when i FAILED in my persuasion pep talk. ( i guess even torture didnt sway him in that)
Thats three failures in first five minutes of the game.




- Apart from the obvious, the big problem is those small words in brackets in NPCs answers that tell me each and every frigging time that i FAILED or SUCCEDED... wait... do i even get a notification that i SUCCEDED or just a line opens without it in brackets, as i seem to remember?


Remove the bracketed notifications entirely. Let the player figure things out just by answers an NPC gives. Am i telepathic in some weird way that i get a notification that i failed some skills each time? How did i know Dellar responded to my lack of Charisma? Maybe he just had a bad day and didnt feel like talking. Maybe he just doesnt like my tattooed praetorian face and my pale complexion?
How did i know Neilos wanted a better, deeper, more personalized persuasion and an IQ test score?
How could i know that Loremaster didnt want to tell me something because of persuasion "going wrong"?

The fucking brackets man...it was the fucking brackets all along!



Just remove them.
Of course, in conjunction with other good suggestions about the issue.
such as these:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-to-see-improved-in-here.70546/#post-2028253

Im serious. Let the player think for himself instead.
I mean, if i ask a guy to do something or tell me something and he doesnt - its clear i didnt manage to convince him.
I dont need a fucking bracketed result in my face screaming reload, reload, REEELOOOAAAD! every minute and showing me exactly what i need to increase after i reload.
Its illogical, fake, forced in, doesnt do anything for gameplay and does everything to push you out of it.

It tells you you need to exit the game, reload an earlier point and put skill points exactly here, here and here. And sometimes just freaking start over because your attribute needs to be like THIS BIG!
Thats all those bracket fucks are doing.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS AGAIN I WANTED TO LOVE THE GAME BUT I CANT

GOOD POINTS

CHARACTER SKILL COUNTS AND YOU CANT BE MR SUPER AWESOME AT EVERYTHING
DIFFERENT GEAR AND SKILL COMBOS ARE FUN TO EXPERIMENT WITH AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE BASED ON CHARACTER BUILD
CHOSING SOME PATHS CLOSE OF OTHERS
FAST TRAVEL WAS IMPLEMENTED AWESOMELY

BAD POINTS

BROS MAYBE YOU WANTED TO SELL GAMES BUT THE ENGINE IS HORRIBLE FOR THE TYPE OF GAME YOU ARE TRYING TO HAVE I FIGHT IT TOO MUCH AND IT IS OVERKILL WITH A RELATIVELY DEAD TOWN AND NOTHING TO EXPLORE
NO DESCRI[TIONS ON HIGHLIGHTING SHIT IS JUST HIGHLIGHTED
DEAD WORLD NOTHING GOING ON
INTERACTION WITH THE WORLD IS LIMITED AND ARBITRARY YOU ARE RAILROADED WHEN IT MAKES SENS THAT YOU CAN CHOOSE
AGAIN WITH THE ABOVE DIALOGUE OPTIONS ARE LIMITED SEVERLY AND ONLY ALLOW WHERE THE GAME WANTS YOU TO GO

BROS I FEEL SO BAD THESE GUYS TRIED SO HARD BUT THIS IS NOT A FALLOUT OR OLDSCHOOL TYPE RPG I THINK IT COMPROMISES TO MUCH WITH POPAMOLE AND IN THE END IT WILL SATISFY NO ONE

I SPENT MAYBE TEN TO FIFTEEN HOURS TOOK A MERCENARY THROUGH THE MERCENARY QUEST AND I FINISHED THE TOWER AND THEN COULD NOT GET PAST THE NEXT PART I WAS ANNOYED THAT I WAS REAILRODED INTO FIGHTING THE BAD BRO AND LOCKED IN THE FUCKING MERCENARY HOLE

THIS REALLY REALLY DIAPOINTS ME BECAUSE I WAS ENJOYING FIGURING THE WAY AROUND SOME OF THE ENCOUNTERS I JUST HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THE STYLE OF THE GAME I DO NOT MIND A CHALLENGE IN AN OPEN ENDED RPG THAT ALLOWS ALTERNATIVES BUT THIS GAME HAS A VERY SET ROAD TO FOLLOW IN THE ADVENTURE SHIT

AND AGAIN THE ADENTURE SHIT JUST SEEMS TO REMOVE ALL PLAYER DECISONS THIS STYLE OF GAMEPLAY WAS DONE MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER IN SPACE RANGERS 2 ALBIIET MINUS SKILLCHECKS BUT STILL IT NEVER MADE YOU FEEL THAT YOUR CHOICES LED TO INEVITANLE FAILURE

IT SADDENS ME THAT FALLOUT AND ARCANUM ARE STILL UNSURPASSED N THIS STYLE OF GAME AND I WONDER HOW ADMIRATION OF THOSE GAMES LED TO WHAT WE SEE IN AOD IT JUST DOESNT FOLLOW IT IS LIKE KOTOR AND FALLOUT HAD A WIERD BABY BUT WITH BETTER COMBAT

BROS ULTIMATELY I WOULD PAY TEN DOLLARS OR SO FOR THE GAME MAYBE TWENTY IF I WAS DRUNK BUT I THINK IT HAS SO FAR FAILED AS A SUCCSSOR TO FALLUT AND ARCANMU AND I DO NOT THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE GAME TO BE CHANGED ENOUGH WITOUH TOTALLY REVAMPING IT

 

[Kenneybounces]

Yay it's over 100. :D

 

[Gord]

Ive just started a combat focused praetor play.

Surely you mean non-combat focused? Because otherwise, what are you complaining about failed non-combat checks at the start?

That aside, I found the Praetor gameplay to be much worse than the other classes.
IMHO, the Praetor questline need some rework, it's too specific and unpredictable.

 

[hiver]

Ive just started a combat focused praetor play.

Surely you mean non-combat focused? Because otherwise, what are you complaining about failed non-combat checks at the start?

That aside, I found the Praetor gameplay to be much worse than the other classes.
IMHO, the Praetor questline need some rework, it's too specific and unpredictable.

-edit-

Not at all good sir, not at all.
Im just using those as examples of how the game deals with it - which unfortunately has an effect of reinforcing reload-restart non gameplay way, way too much - and it isnt actually wanted or warranted or needed.

 

[Gord]

Edit:
Nevermind then my fine gentleman, but nonetheless, enjoy this nice picture of a burning firetruck:

 

[hiver]

When i just wake up (after sleeping exactly two hours and 46 minutes) i dont like seeing people missing my hard worked for points and misinterpreting them in very wrong ways.

-ninja edit- i edited the post before i saw this fine burning firetruck, dumbaa...uuhhh....i mean dear sir,... and only because this exchange of pleasantries will take attention needlessly away from my hit on the motherload (one page back you ff,.... re.....graaarrhhh!!... i mean extinguished gentlemen of codexia)


:bloodshot stare:

 

[Elhoim]

Not sure which one you mean by 'merchant robbery', but as praetor you should be looking at:

Spoiler

Aemolas and refugees at the gate; pickpocketers by a well between tavern and gate; Miltiades and his 'smuggler shop' in the marketplace; Bandit Camp; Mine; Initial Sohrab intercept quest. I think praetors don't do the kebab stand, but maybe that's wrong.

So sounds like you haven't looked around all of Teron. Also, is the mine really required? Can't you just deal with the bandits, who are quite a bit easier to kill off, and that's enough to then talk to Antiades and start the endgame with Dellar's support?

I did all those that are possible for praetors except the well which I hadn't found because I had no reason to go there ever. Did it now for a whopping 3 skill points. And yes, the mine is really required. The mine is the main quest for praetors.

We are adding more options for the Praetor at the mine.

 

[CappenVarra]

I think people are over-focusing on crafting in the demo... As I understand it, they left it in just to demonstrate how it's going to work, and removed some parts (leather, bows etc. crafting) because people were overusing them... And the Teron section in the final game will not have your character start knowing a crapload of crafting techniques (but will have to solve quests to get each one etc.) - the important part being, I don't think you'll be able to craft Hardened armor in Teron at all. So all those melee builds focusing on crafted Hardened armor? Gone right through the window as far as the final game is concerned. And when trying the demo as a combat char without crafted armor, there seems to be a definite lack of skillpoints... Maybe they cut the amount to compensate for crafting cheese?

tldr: shut up about crafting already

But nonetheless, combat just takes some thought and trying different approaches out. I was being an idiot and dying when surrounded as a dodge-based merc... Until the light shone on me and told me to equip a two-handed axe and use Whirlwind. etc. etc. But if you're not willing to try out different tactics, character builds and weapons for different situations, of course you'll have a hard time.

 

[circ]

I don't mean to blow someones mind or anything. Not having played the combat demo I looked it up on youtube by chance yesterday. And NOT TO BLOW YOUR MIND OR ANYHING, short of the character stats screen, everything looked more unique, interesting and attractive. The blurry textures, low poly count, seemingly locked almost top down view, bottom UI.