SuicideBunny
(ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻
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- May 1, 2007
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is there any way to loot corpses while in combat?
-
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Game News Age of Decadence Released on Steam Early Access
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
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- Sep 25, 2012
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Kill everyone, end combat. Otherwise, I haven't noticed.
hiver
Guest
No there isnt. I tried. 
I think its made that way to stop you from looting enemies in most fights where you have help.
I think its made that way to stop you from looting enemies in most fights where you have help.
SuicideBunny
(ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻
- Joined
- May 1, 2007
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sucks for tough fights against enemies with superior equipment that end with teleporting you around. you should at least be able to snatch a weapon or two.
hiver
Guest
Depends on a fight i guess. If it makes sense suggest they change it and they probably will.
in the Boatman playthrough, if you do it straight without betraying, you for example go through IG fort without looting, but in the end fight you can finish the fight and loot everyone. But you "leave" as soon as you go through the door of that room.
(hmm damn... i didnt try something... hmm)
I think it wouldnt hurt if the player could loot the enemies in the Thief ambush scene. It is my ambush. damnit.
A cool trick would if they wouldnt allow or block possibility of taking armors from inventories (if its possible to do), in such scenes and events where youre supposed to be rushing through - so you can only take weapons and ammo - as if youre doing it quickly.
and- you wont be able to carry that many armors anyway.
in the Boatman playthrough, if you do it straight without betraying, you for example go through IG fort without looting, but in the end fight you can finish the fight and loot everyone. But you "leave" as soon as you go through the door of that room.
(hmm damn... i didnt try something... hmm)
I think it wouldnt hurt if the player could loot the enemies in the Thief ambush scene. It is my ambush. damnit.
A cool trick would if they wouldnt allow or block possibility of taking armors from inventories (if its possible to do), in such scenes and events where youre supposed to be rushing through - so you can only take weapons and ammo - as if youre doing it quickly.
and- you wont be able to carry that many armors anyway.
hiver
Guest
Elhoim
Vault Dweller
I think i may have stumbled - run into a possible solution for shield/block - heavy armor build.
Started playing with shield and sword more and the difference in THC is very noticeable, and very large, actually - between that build and dodge characters. No wonder i thought it might be a bug, before.
It leads to this current situation, where its not really satisfactory as a solution and it results in some additional negative effects in gameplay.
Its biggest problem is that it actually works directly against weapon skills. And it works directly against properties of weapons. Therefore it also unintentionally reduces the benefit and usefulness of loot itself - which is one of the holeis in true RPGs
.
(unfortunately that is not just a joke)
- not even higher perception helps since effect is still too big even with 7 or 8 perception - so it works against one of the man attributes too.-
Additionally, it has very big negative influence especially throughout the start of the game, of course - where the weapon skill is still lower, so it cant compensate even a little, - and where the blocking itself is low and barely helps (since it works very rarely even with 3-4 points in it).
This leaves the player with only armor as actual defense which really doesnt defend that much since most of early armors let enough damage through with almost every hit - (and they make you easier to hit too), where dodge happens more often generally and negates all damage - plus it gives extra attacks sometimes.
This creates a specific effect of lack of defense and lack of offense for block/heavy armor builds.
It also makes you take the helmet off sometimes, or makes you not use the better heavier ones at all - which isnt the most elegant solution either. - yet another additional negative consequence.
Even if you raise the weapon skill as you play, you find better armor and better shields and helmets, all usually reducing THC even more. So this has a bad effect throughout the whole game, even if it may be mathematically a bit reduced as you find the best equipment by playing longer.
Youre basically always lagging behind in ability to strike the target. While dodgers and rangers usually only have a benefit from their skills that doesnt affect their offensive abilities at all, even adds to them.
- (i get that critical stike can somewhat balance offensive nerf created by shields, but dodgers can use that in a same way too so that effect actually doesnt tip the overall balance in any way)
I understand the logic of plausibility of that change you did, from previous mechanics. Seems reasonable that carrying a shield would reduce "visibility", as helmet really does too.
BUT...
I think i have even more plausible explanation and consequently, solution for all those effects - which would make these builds play better and in a more plausible, believable way too.
As to the plauisible realism - yes a shield would reduce the visibility somewhat- but, when fighters who are trained to fight with shields go into combat, they are used to it - they know how to fight differently - in a way appropriate to that specific type of fighting.
They wont actually fight like some dancing agile swordsman.
Such warriors - especially if they are trained in it (as you actually are in AoD when you upgrade those skills) - use the shields for defense, but usually they wouldnt also try to land strikes while covering with or hiding behind the shield.
Instead they also bash opponents, or push with the shield to either stumble them or try to open a clear chance for a strike into some unprotected part of the enemy. Or to bash defenses away - not just the enemy himself.
Shields are actively used in combat to push enemies shield or weapon or hands away to the side and so open them up for strike - when the enemy doesnt just run at you with heroically exposed chests. Or guts.
So - actually, while shields would "reduce visibility overall" - they wouldnt reduce innate ability of precision necessary to even land a hit - which is what THC really is - because a fighter with a shield would wait and work actively to get a good strike before attempting it. We rarely see trained warriors just swinging over their shields while they cover behind them - right? Especially trained Roman or Romanesque soldiers and units would not do that - since we all saw how they did it - specifically with shields so prominent in Roman army, military and tactics.
Warriors with a shield would actually land less strikes in any given amount of time - but that they would not be less precise necessarily, because of it.
Especially if they have invested into weapon skills and training with shields.
In the current setup you can still land the same number of strikes - only youre much, much less precise - which isnt really how that works - especially for warriors trained in shield-weapon combat,
- and it creates all these other bad effects.
I say, instead - you remove the THC reduction from shields altogether - but leave it as is on helmets (maybe lowering it a little bit would also work with the rest of the proposition).
Then - lower APs instead. Equip a shield - one Ap less. Bigger shield - 2 APs cost. - As a hard cap on overall APs - working just like armors do - and adding to that. So, an armor that reduces maximum APs on 8, for example - plus a shield = lowers maximum APs to 7, or 6 in case of some bigger model.
(adjust as necessary yourself, you know the math and mechanics better)
This works the same as armors, yes. As it should.
With a much better overall ultimate effect on everything.
In this way - A heavy armored warrior with a shield - moves slower - can pull less attacks. As it should be from the plausibility side too.
If im guessing this right, in addition to usual AP cost of armor, this would still make it possible to swing once per turn but also use all targeted attacks - with full THC minus of helmets still working in the same way, or maybe reduced a bit if needed.
I would also add a secondary effect to bash or split existing effects - then have these two effects happening randomly, or with 50/50 chance:
1. - sometimes you push the opponent away as usual (which is not that good for a single handed weapon fighter)
2. - sometimes you lower opponents defense for the next turn - as if you managed to crush-grind him "with a shield in the struggle" and so force an opening or jam his weapon in between, or otherwise momentarily managed to stumble-indispose or "get the upper hand" over the enemy - for the next turn (reduce either his chance to block or to dodge or something else appropriate - but not for some huge amount - unless its a critical Bash - ha!)
In this way - the defense abilities of a block- heavy armor build would not lower the precision of strikes, therefore would not directly work against weapon skills or against benefits of better weapons themselves.
Or any of the attributes.
Just the number of attacks is lowered - as slower armored warrior would be slowed down more by armor and the shield, which is often reduces movement just by the size itself - since they are also unwieldy as large objects always are.
- Less attacks because of general heaviness of both armors and shields - but no reduction of THC - Precision - just because of a shield.
In this case - all helms would then work in much more balanced way themselves - because it would be much more acceptable - and therefore harder to refuse - for any player to trade a bit of THC for defense they provide.
And this would also balance the fights in between dodgers and block/armored builds appropriately.
Now blockers would leverage the dodgers capability of more attacks with armor and blocking - while better, normal THC from weapon skill and weapon quality and type - would balance dodging capabilities of completely avoiding any damage at all, when successful - which means you probably wouldn't have to adjust dodge variables at all.
- I think this would immediately play better but some adjustments to damage or critical strikes % may be required - i wouldnt know that actually myself - you'll figure that out.
Vault Dweller
I think i may have stumbled - run into a possible solution for shield/block - heavy armor build.
Started playing with shield and sword more and the difference in THC is very noticeable, and very large, actually - between that build and dodge characters. No wonder i thought it might be a bug, before.
It leads to this current situation, where its not really satisfactory as a solution and it results in some additional negative effects in gameplay.
Its biggest problem is that it actually works directly against weapon skills. And it works directly against properties of weapons. Therefore it also unintentionally reduces the benefit and usefulness of loot itself - which is one of the holeis in true RPGs
. (unfortunately that is not just a joke)
- not even higher perception helps since effect is still too big even with 7 or 8 perception - so it works against one of the man attributes too.-
Additionally, it has very big negative influence especially throughout the start of the game, of course - where the weapon skill is still lower, so it cant compensate even a little, - and where the blocking itself is low and barely helps (since it works very rarely even with 3-4 points in it).
This leaves the player with only armor as actual defense which really doesnt defend that much since most of early armors let enough damage through with almost every hit - (and they make you easier to hit too), where dodge happens more often generally and negates all damage - plus it gives extra attacks sometimes.
This creates a specific effect of lack of defense and lack of offense for block/heavy armor builds.
It also makes you take the helmet off sometimes, or makes you not use the better heavier ones at all - which isnt the most elegant solution either. - yet another additional negative consequence.
Even if you raise the weapon skill as you play, you find better armor and better shields and helmets, all usually reducing THC even more. So this has a bad effect throughout the whole game, even if it may be mathematically a bit reduced as you find the best equipment by playing longer.
Youre basically always lagging behind in ability to strike the target. While dodgers and rangers usually only have a benefit from their skills that doesnt affect their offensive abilities at all, even adds to them.
- (i get that critical stike can somewhat balance offensive nerf created by shields, but dodgers can use that in a same way too so that effect actually doesnt tip the overall balance in any way)
I understand the logic of plausibility of that change you did, from previous mechanics. Seems reasonable that carrying a shield would reduce "visibility", as helmet really does too.
BUT...
I think i have even more plausible explanation and consequently, solution for all those effects - which would make these builds play better and in a more plausible, believable way too.
As to the plauisible realism - yes a shield would reduce the visibility somewhat- but, when fighters who are trained to fight with shields go into combat, they are used to it - they know how to fight differently - in a way appropriate to that specific type of fighting.
They wont actually fight like some dancing agile swordsman.
Such warriors - especially if they are trained in it (as you actually are in AoD when you upgrade those skills) - use the shields for defense, but usually they wouldnt also try to land strikes while covering with or hiding behind the shield.
Instead they also bash opponents, or push with the shield to either stumble them or try to open a clear chance for a strike into some unprotected part of the enemy. Or to bash defenses away - not just the enemy himself.
Shields are actively used in combat to push enemies shield or weapon or hands away to the side and so open them up for strike - when the enemy doesnt just run at you with heroically exposed chests. Or guts.
So - actually, while shields would "reduce visibility overall" - they wouldnt reduce innate ability of precision necessary to even land a hit - which is what THC really is - because a fighter with a shield would wait and work actively to get a good strike before attempting it. We rarely see trained warriors just swinging over their shields while they cover behind them - right? Especially trained Roman or Romanesque soldiers and units would not do that - since we all saw how they did it - specifically with shields so prominent in Roman army, military and tactics.
Warriors with a shield would actually land less strikes in any given amount of time - but that they would not be less precise necessarily, because of it.
Especially if they have invested into weapon skills and training with shields.
In the current setup you can still land the same number of strikes - only youre much, much less precise - which isnt really how that works - especially for warriors trained in shield-weapon combat,
- and it creates all these other bad effects.
I say, instead - you remove the THC reduction from shields altogether - but leave it as is on helmets (maybe lowering it a little bit would also work with the rest of the proposition).
Then - lower APs instead. Equip a shield - one Ap less. Bigger shield - 2 APs cost. - As a hard cap on overall APs - working just like armors do - and adding to that. So, an armor that reduces maximum APs on 8, for example - plus a shield = lowers maximum APs to 7, or 6 in case of some bigger model.
(adjust as necessary yourself, you know the math and mechanics better)
This works the same as armors, yes. As it should.
With a much better overall ultimate effect on everything.
In this way - A heavy armored warrior with a shield - moves slower - can pull less attacks. As it should be from the plausibility side too.
If im guessing this right, in addition to usual AP cost of armor, this would still make it possible to swing once per turn but also use all targeted attacks - with full THC minus of helmets still working in the same way, or maybe reduced a bit if needed.
I would also add a secondary effect to bash or split existing effects - then have these two effects happening randomly, or with 50/50 chance:
1. - sometimes you push the opponent away as usual (which is not that good for a single handed weapon fighter)
2. - sometimes you lower opponents defense for the next turn - as if you managed to crush-grind him "with a shield in the struggle" and so force an opening or jam his weapon in between, or otherwise momentarily managed to stumble-indispose or "get the upper hand" over the enemy - for the next turn (reduce either his chance to block or to dodge or something else appropriate - but not for some huge amount - unless its a critical Bash - ha!)
In this way - the defense abilities of a block- heavy armor build would not lower the precision of strikes, therefore would not directly work against weapon skills or against benefits of better weapons themselves.
Or any of the attributes.
Just the number of attacks is lowered - as slower armored warrior would be slowed down more by armor and the shield, which is often reduces movement just by the size itself - since they are also unwieldy as large objects always are.
- Less attacks because of general heaviness of both armors and shields - but no reduction of THC - Precision - just because of a shield.
In this case - all helms would then work in much more balanced way themselves - because it would be much more acceptable - and therefore harder to refuse - for any player to trade a bit of THC for defense they provide.
And this would also balance the fights in between dodgers and block/armored builds appropriately.
Now blockers would leverage the dodgers capability of more attacks with armor and blocking - while better, normal THC from weapon skill and weapon quality and type - would balance dodging capabilities of completely avoiding any damage at all, when successful - which means you probably wouldn't have to adjust dodge variables at all.
- I think this would immediately play better but some adjustments to damage or critical strikes % may be required - i wouldnt know that actually myself - you'll figure that out.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bubbles
I'm forever blowing
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 7,817
I have seen - deduced - understood that this post is formatted really badly.
hiver
Guest
Sorry, i tried.
better ?
better ?
hiver
Guest
In before Vince or Oscar reply and say something short that makes the idea totally horrible and stupid.
I just thought to write it down before i forget it all
- been drinkin heavily lately...
I just thought to write it down before i forget it all
- been drinkin heavily lately...
Tigranes
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,350
I think AP hit instead of THC hit for shields is an interesting idea. If you build a block character right and invest a lot into it you can feel like certain enemies (i.e. with 1H spears) can't do any damage to you most of the time, and you block say, 20-25% of the time to mitigate a lot of the damage. But I think at the moment, the way the numbers go, I don't think block is much better than dodge in terms of pure defense - so when you then add the THC hit, it means the reduced ability to kill things quickly always neutralises any greater durability you might have.
Crudely speaking, if a dodge character feels like he needs to get someone down in 3 rounds or his luck will run out, well, a block character might feel he can last 5 turns, but he would be only half as good at hitting them.
Not sure if an AP hit would have other consequences, i.e. making DEX even more important for block characters as well (where it is already super important for dodgers).
Crudely speaking, if a dodge character feels like he needs to get someone down in 3 rounds or his luck will run out, well, a block character might feel he can last 5 turns, but he would be only half as good at hitting them.
Not sure if an AP hit would have other consequences, i.e. making DEX even more important for block characters as well (where it is already super important for dodgers).
hiver
Guest
yup. - ninja edit - unless - of course, youre up against some of the more capable enemies with pierce/bypass armor preferences - which actually tends to happen a lot in AoD anyway
.It feels to me slightly worse since with 3 or 4 in block i block much less then dodger evades with 3 and 4. I may be wrong but thats how it feels. plus dodging sometimes gets you extra attacks.
-edit- But does it in a wrong way, with additional more or less negative consequences.
While my suggestion - is balanced a bit more - inherently. It doesnt destabilize other stuff, really.
With my suggestion you have one less hit most of the time - on account of the shield working properly too - i.e. youre actively using the shield too as part of your capabilities. (while that one hit tends to be good when its given)
As any shield - heavy armor- one hand weapon warrior would actually fight.
- (remember, this would work for enemies too - making it a bit harder for dodgers and especially ranged characters) -
And the thing is that dodge doesnt cause you to have deficiencies in offense.
This way a heavy would strike less then dexterous character - as is appropriate, but not worse - except THC reduced by a helm - While two handers would have to rely only on armor and strong damaging attacks - as actual defense - but that is a more offensive build by its very nature (and realistically) anyway.
Yet you could pull off targeted attacks with a normal THC - at least.
This way with sword four and a buckler i have 20% to aim for the head - against an early enemy with no helmet on - 40% with regular attack. So you practically almost dont get targeted attacks playing like this.
While with dodging Boatman i was well into 70-90 range most of the time. Even for targeted attacks.
I was going to say it would make it less important. Because you wouldnt actually need to have more Dex so that equipment may reduce it.
Since it would be a kind of hard cap on overall APs - Just like armor works now i think. It allows 8 APs max - for example. Its not that it takes APs away from what you have. If im not terribly mistaking...?
-should have pointed that out before -
Last edited by a moderator:
Man, that deadsanta guy on the steam forum sure is out for you Vault Dweller. Everything you or anyone says is instantly an insult
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 29,844
Unless they're the same, I doubt it tops the Spanish guy.Man, that deadsanta guy on the steam forum sure is out for you Vault Dweller. Everything you or anyone says is instantly an insult
hiver
Guest
- major butthurt that - and even funnier, some attempt of "vendetta" on top - and all because he got killed a few times early on - literally.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 5,480
Oh man that reminds me...somebody PLEASE tell me they saved a screencap of Skyway getting pissed off in chat about dying and loading the crossbow, et al.
TheEntitledOne
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Messages
- 4,077
At last I managed to beat the Boatmen route with a dodge&counter swordsman. Fun times.
My last attempt with a spear guy ended when the guards started asking me for a bribe (I just had to proof to a guard that I was indeed an assasin) and I didn't have enough money. That sucked, wouldn't be better to get an extended period to pay the bribe? I was full of lot, but I had no chance of reaching a merchant before the guards stop me
.
My last attempt with a spear guy ended when the guards started asking me for a bribe (I just had to proof to a guard that I was indeed an assasin) and I didn't have enough money. That sucked, wouldn't be better to get an extended period to pay the bribe? I was full of lot, but I had no chance of reaching a merchant before the guards stop me
.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 5,480
Nice to see GD's made an appearance:
Tigranes
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,350
The champion of the Arena. With 6 Bow / 6 Dodge.
Sadly, it isn't because I have mad skillz, though I found piercing arrows & 10 DEX/PER is super effective in most situations. But then I discovered that a certain merchant in the thief questline sells unlimited bottles of liquid flame - so all you have to do in just about any fight is go to a corner, break a vat, and you get 3 turns of uninterrupted killing as they can't get to you. I'd think that the merchant should have a limited stock.
Vault Dweller I don't know what's going on with the assassination mission at the end, however. There's all this talk about badges, but I take care of the Aurelian guards in the tavern, I wear the armour as disguise and go up - then the only options are talk to the loremaster (which has no options relevant to the mission) or to talk to the Legatus... except Cyrus asks you whether you want to go Sleight of Hand or go for the kill, but in either case, I only get the [Crit Strike] option. Which I fail, even with CS 7. (I had saved up 105 SP, so I could try and see.)
I feel like there are a couple of other options that aren't appearing for some reason, for whatever I have somehow nto done.
Just finished my sword/cs/dodge assassin playthrough. Very much fun indeed! Very good and diverse fights and i really like the sword + crit combo. And was fun to fight in the arena again, last time was in combat demo so good to see it again.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 29,844
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,044
Limited stocks (and thus rare items) will be added in the upcomig updates.
First, there is an issue with the other options. Should be fixed this week.
When you start the quest (after you kill the guards, for example), open the console (the tilde key) and type:
aod.quest_TG6_talkOurWayIn = true;
A streetwise option will be added. If you fail it, you will get an option to steal a badge.
Second, here is how it's supposed to work:
- you need a badge (either golden or silver) and the Legatus' office is the only place to get one.
- you can either kill him (CS only - need 7 to succeed, so you should be fine; you get a gold badge for the effort), steal a silver badge from the table, or bullshit him into giving you one.
- a gold badge takes you to Gaelius right away, a silver badge gives you access to another wing
- in the other wing, you can either acquire a badge or have someone take you to Gaelius.
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