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Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition (AKA AoE2 HD HD)

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,118
So after playing HD for a couple of days I've bought DE (thx Zboj Lamignat). Runs like a dream on my shitty laptop and doesn't take 30 gigs at all. I've been playing it for 3-4 days with 15.6 hours played.

Fast-paced gameplay is nothing like I remember from my childhood, but I guess I was playing it wrong back then. After watching lots of YT videos I can beat 2 moderate AIs without issues. Have not tried higher difficulties yet, but I'm definitely having trouble managing everything in the late-game, keeping villagers busy and spending resources. I'm also not sure if getting into another multiplayer time sink is a good idea.
Congrats on beating to Moderate AIs! The new AIs play a lot like humans, or at least a lot closer to what makes sense mathematically compared to the old, pre-HD one. The biggest problem with it is that it will build units and often not use them for anything, enabling you to age up without military while its sitting in economic crisis trying to catch up while the military it created chills in its base. Contrary to this the old AI, called ''Standard AI'' now had a tendency to rush and suicide its units, even on maps not conductive to early aggression. Which map did you try playing on? Before I got rusty, I could beat one Hard AI though I'm not too sure if I can now.

What are your system specs? The MP is barred until you pass a benchmark and I couldn't pass it with my old AMD FX and RX550 though my RX 570+Potato Athlon 200GE does pass it. Both configs ran 1v1 well enough to play though. I've read that DE is very single-core performance reliant so high end GPUs aren't necessarily required to pass the benchmark.
The original AI on the highest difficulty is pretty impossible to fight against one-on-one. When I play with a friend, it is always 3-vs-5 to let the 1 AI on our team take the hits while we build up. Most times, the AI will survive as we will be helping it as much as we can. But, Holy Hell, that initial rush from all 5 enemy AIs when you are still in Feudal...
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
So after playing HD for a couple of days I've bought DE (thx Zboj Lamignat). Runs like a dream on my shitty laptop and doesn't take 30 gigs at all. I've been playing it for 3-4 days with 15.6 hours played.

Fast-paced gameplay is nothing like I remember from my childhood, but I guess I was playing it wrong back then. After watching lots of YT videos I can beat 2 moderate AIs without issues. Have not tried higher difficulties yet, but I'm definitely having trouble managing everything in the late-game, keeping villagers busy and spending resources. I'm also not sure if getting into another multiplayer time sink is a good idea.
Congrats on beating to Moderate AIs! The new AIs play a lot like humans, or at least a lot closer to what makes sense mathematically compared to the old, pre-HD one. The biggest problem with it is that it will build units and often not use them for anything, enabling you to age up without military while its sitting in economic crisis trying to catch up while the military it created chills in its base. Contrary to this the old AI, called ''Standard AI'' now had a tendency to rush and suicide its units, even on maps not conductive to early aggression. Which map did you try playing on? Before I got rusty, I could beat one Hard AI though I'm not too sure if I can now.

What are your system specs? The MP is barred until you pass a benchmark and I couldn't pass it with my old AMD FX and RX550 though my RX 570+Potato Athlon 200GE does pass it. Both configs ran 1v1 well enough to play though. I've read that DE is very single-core performance reliant so high end GPUs aren't necessarily required to pass the benchmark.
The original AI on the highest difficulty is pretty impossible to fight against one-on-one. When I play with a friend, it is always 3-vs-5 to let the 1 AI on our team take the hits while we build up. Most times, the AI will survive as we will be helping it as much as we can. But, Holy Hell, that initial rush from all 5 enemy AIs when you are still in Feudal...
Yeah the Hardest AI, whether standard or new cheats 100% of the time. It gets resources as it ages up. I don't remember how much but all you need to do to check is start a recorded game vs a hardest AI and have the game reach imperial age. You can watch the recorded game from the AI's POV to see how much it gets every time it ages up. You can cheese all the AIs a fair bit though, especially the old one. A good way to stall them is by placing buildings on the way from their base to yours and they'll waste a lot of time attacking it with their rush instead of attacking your base. Stone walls are great for this because they sometimes stick around until every last one is destroyed. This of course requires you to advance to feudal before they do which can be difficult on standard starting resources. Starting on fortress will also help since you start with a small economy and some defenses to boot.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,118
So after playing HD for a couple of days I've bought DE (thx Zboj Lamignat). Runs like a dream on my shitty laptop and doesn't take 30 gigs at all. I've been playing it for 3-4 days with 15.6 hours played.

Fast-paced gameplay is nothing like I remember from my childhood, but I guess I was playing it wrong back then. After watching lots of YT videos I can beat 2 moderate AIs without issues. Have not tried higher difficulties yet, but I'm definitely having trouble managing everything in the late-game, keeping villagers busy and spending resources. I'm also not sure if getting into another multiplayer time sink is a good idea.
Congrats on beating to Moderate AIs! The new AIs play a lot like humans, or at least a lot closer to what makes sense mathematically compared to the old, pre-HD one. The biggest problem with it is that it will build units and often not use them for anything, enabling you to age up without military while its sitting in economic crisis trying to catch up while the military it created chills in its base. Contrary to this the old AI, called ''Standard AI'' now had a tendency to rush and suicide its units, even on maps not conductive to early aggression. Which map did you try playing on? Before I got rusty, I could beat one Hard AI though I'm not too sure if I can now.

What are your system specs? The MP is barred until you pass a benchmark and I couldn't pass it with my old AMD FX and RX550 though my RX 570+Potato Athlon 200GE does pass it. Both configs ran 1v1 well enough to play though. I've read that DE is very single-core performance reliant so high end GPUs aren't necessarily required to pass the benchmark.
The original AI on the highest difficulty is pretty impossible to fight against one-on-one. When I play with a friend, it is always 3-vs-5 to let the 1 AI on our team take the hits while we build up. Most times, the AI will survive as we will be helping it as much as we can. But, Holy Hell, that initial rush from all 5 enemy AIs when you are still in Feudal...
Yeah the Hardest AI, whether standard or new cheats 100% of the time. It gets resources as it ages up. I don't remember how much but all you need to do to check is start a recorded game vs a hardest AI and have the game reach imperial age. You can watch the recorded game from the AI's POV to see how much it gets every time it ages up. You can cheese all the AIs a fair bit though, especially the old one. A good way to stall them is by placing buildings on the way from their base to yours and they'll waste a lot of time attacking it with their rush instead of attacking your base. Stone walls are great for this because they sometimes stick around until every last one is destroyed. This of course requires you to advance to feudal before they do which can be difficult on standard starting resources. Starting on fortress will also help since you start with a small economy and some defenses to boot.
Walls and such delay them for a few minutes at most. It won't be enough to save your ass. It is best to have a AI buddy who can match them to take the hits. It will get destroyed but at least it will give you enough time to have a chance.
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
4,980
What are your system specs? The MP is barred until you pass a benchmark
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6200U CPU @ 2.30GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
8gigs of ram

Integrated graphics mean I can't play some games from 2010. I can play some though, like Kingmaker, and now AoE2 DE on medium. I pass the MP check.
Yeah the Hardest AI, whether standard or new cheats 100% of the time.
Apparently it doesn't cheat since HD. That's what Spirit of the Law on YT says:


DE interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYcxohpnXo0
The biggest problem with it is that it will build units and often not use them for anything, enabling you to age up without military
Sounds right. I'm basically trying to click as fast as I can and expand, slowly learning hot keys and trying to choose techs less randomly. I get enough units to protect myself from occasional attacks and then swarm both AIs at 1:00h mark.
Which map did you try playing on?
Random map, standard, conquest.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania


Some people got the expac early, here in vid - the bonus Gurjaratis get is very minuscule as far as sheep go(6 sheep in a mill are about as efficient as 1 villager on farm). I guess additional forage bushes are nice but that's about it, because it's dubious that an optimised BO will leave you with more than 3 sheep left to drop into a mill for eternity.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
Obviously on maps with excess sheep or easily available alternative(fish) this bonus is pretty good.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
I actually thought they were given the garrisoning thing to make them vegetarian like the Japanese in AoE3. I don't think they'll make it a viable strategy on maps with standard starting sheep because Britons are already the sheepmasters and giving anyone an advantage over them is an unlikely move from the devs.

Whatever state this expansion comes out in, I wouldn't expect balance to be good until the first few patches so I'd wait for the summer sale before buying, just to see if they put a discount on it. If they're discounting it, they probably don't intend to fix it like the AoM expansion. Even with the campaigns, I don't see any reason to get this on release.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
The patch that's going to be released with the expansion has been leaked. The youtubers who got the DLC early seem to have looked in the TT and editor for the changes. No official notes on the changes yet but there are vids:

Some significant ones:
-Inca team bonus is now spearmen and skirms +2 LOS
-Saracen UT of Zealotry that gives +30hp to camels is now available in castle age
-Saracen madrassa UT replaced with one that gives mangos and trebs +15% damage
-Sicilians and Bohemians slightly nerfed
-Berber Genitour slightly buffed
-Camel LOS buffed
-Ballista elephants slightly buffed
-Slavic orthodoxy replaced with tech that gives towers and castles less stone and more wood cost
-Flaming camels buffed
-Vietnamese Paper Money UT changed to give them a gold trickle from lumberjacks (so they get an infinite gold source like relics)
-Scorpions get +1 pierce armor
-Some other tweaks
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,192
Location
Dutchland


Some people got the expac early, here in vid - the bonus Gurjaratis get is very minuscule as far as sheep go(6 sheep in a mill are about as efficient as 1 villager on farm). I guess additional forage bushes are nice but that's about it, because it's dubious that an optimised BO will leave you with more than 3 sheep left to drop into a mill for eternity.

Garrisoned sheep remind me of the mechanic that Galactic Battlegrounds had with a dedicated building for this exact purpose, but that game also had dedicated technologies to make food production faster. Then again, the building was also a requirement for an anti-building and anti-vehicle unit, and the Confederates got some extra units as well.

-Vietnamese Paper Money UT changed to give them a gold trickle from lumberjacks (so they get an infinite gold source like relics)

Not entirely infinite since trees can run out :M
Pretty sure that once you've deforested an entire map you've got different things on your mind than the gold you get from the trees.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
Garrisoned sheep remind me of the mechanic that Galactic Battlegrounds had with a dedicated building for this exact purpose, but that game also had dedicated technologies to make food production faster. Then again, the building was also a requirement for an anti-building and anti-vehicle unit, and the Confederates got some extra units as well.
So that's where they got it from. Although they've borrowed many ideas from AoE3, I was thinking that there wasn't a livestock garrisoning trickle mechanic in it AoE3 specifically. I always thought it was a variation on the AoE3 Japanese getting food trickle bonus from placing houses near deer / bison / 'phants.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,118
Garrisoned sheep remind me of the mechanic that Galactic Battlegrounds had with a dedicated building for this exact purpose, but that game also had dedicated technologies to make food production faster. Then again, the building was also a requirement for an anti-building and anti-vehicle unit, and the Confederates got some extra units as well.
So that's where they got it from. Although they've borrowed many ideas from AoE3, I was thinking that there wasn't a livestock garrisoning trickle mechanic in it AoE3 specifically. I always thought it was a variation on the AoE3 Japanese getting food trickle bonus from placing houses near deer / bison / 'phants.
Not garrisoning, but in Empire Earth, it had a mechanic where the animals multiplied over time, so you can husband them for food.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
Garrisoned sheep remind me of the mechanic that Galactic Battlegrounds had with a dedicated building for this exact purpose, but that game also had dedicated technologies to make food production faster. Then again, the building was also a requirement for an anti-building and anti-vehicle unit, and the Confederates got some extra units as well.
So that's where they got it from. Although they've borrowed many ideas from AoE3, I was thinking that there wasn't a livestock garrisoning trickle mechanic in it AoE3 specifically. I always thought it was a variation on the AoE3 Japanese getting food trickle bonus from placing houses near deer / bison / 'phants.
Not garrisoning, but in Empire Earth, it had a mechanic where the animals multiplied over time, so you can husband them for food.
Wow that might have been how sheep would have eventually ended up if Rick Goodman stayed at Ensemble. While AoE2 always seemed to me to be an upgrade over AoE1 in every aspect, AoM seemed to be a natural evolution rather than the huge jump from 1 to 2 while AoE3 seemed like a further evolution of AoM. I've never played EE but it seems like that was what Goodman saw as the rightful progression of the AoE formula. With hindsight though, I'm glad AoE2 and the rest of the series lived on without such scope-creep because having clubs to bows and arrows to nukes in a single game seems arcade-ey, even even compared to monks snipe-converting elephants and musketeers destroying buildings with beerbottles.
 

The Limper

Educated
Joined
Apr 24, 2021
Messages
148
Location
Wishing I was back in Cheesesteak Heaven
We already had the Indians, now they wasted an entire DLC on splitting up an already existing faction?! That is…. Disconcerting. We need the Greeks, Irish…. Not more Indian Factions. They were fine as is. Even the North American Indian tribes would of been fresher. Or Egypt with some Numerian Spearmen. Bah……
 

d1r

Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo fanatic
Patron
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,467
Location
Germany
We already had the Indians, now they wasted an entire DLC on splitting up an already existing faction?! That is…. Disconcerting. We need the Greeks, Irish…. Not more Indian Factions. They were fine as is. Even the North American Indian tribes would of been fresher. Or Egypt with some Numerian Spearmen. Bah……

Hey, at least this helps you to forget about AoE4.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
36,945
Location
Bulgaria
We already had the Indians, now they wasted an entire DLC on splitting up an already existing faction?! That is…. Disconcerting. We need the Greeks, Irish…. Not more Indian Factions. They were fine as is. Even the North American Indian tribes would of been fresher. Or Egypt with some Numerian Spearmen. Bah……

Hey, at least this helps you to forget about AoE4.
:hmmm:

I literally forgot that it existed.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,909
Pathfinder: Wrath
Oh, right, AoE4 is a thing. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Indians were not fine and were one of the worst civs, if not outright the worst, with the most bizarre combination of bonuses.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
We already had the Indians, now they wasted an entire DLC on splitting up an already existing faction?! That is…. Disconcerting. We need the Greeks, Irish…. Not more Indian Factions. They were fine as is. Even the North American Indian tribes would of been fresher. Or Egypt with some Numerian Spearmen. Bah……
Nope, old Indians were trash historically and unit diversity-wise. A civilization that used camels instead of horses, didn't have melee elephant units and had hand cannoneers didn't exist ever. To count that civ as Indians makes as much sense as having a civ that is a mix of Brit+Scots+Irish or a ''German'' civ that's a mixture of Teutons+Goths+Sicilians.

Medieval Greeks=Byzantines, Numidians=Berbers during the Roman timeframe, Egyptians during AoE2=Mamluk Sultanate, medieval North America north of the Aztecs=boring. Irish could be interesting though. More Asian factions would be interesting as fuck. We still don't have Tibetans, Turks are one entity instead of Seljuk and Ottoman, the whole of the Asian middle east is just ''Saracens'' and Persians (ie Sassanids) and even more Indian civs can be added. Considering the vast timeframe covered in the campaigns (ie Huns, Goths and the fall of Rome to late 1500s Imjin War), a unified ''Chinese'' civ doesn't make much sense either.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,118
We already had the Indians, now they wasted an entire DLC on splitting up an already existing faction?! That is…. Disconcerting. We need the Greeks, Irish…. Not more Indian Factions. They were fine as is. Even the North American Indian tribes would of been fresher. Or Egypt with some Numerian Spearmen. Bah……
Nope, old Indians were trash historically and unit diversity-wise. A civilization that used camels instead of horses, didn't have melee elephant units and had hand cannoneers didn't exist ever. To count that civ as Indians makes as much sense as having a civ that is a mix of Brit+Scots+Irish or a ''German'' civ that's a mixture of Teutons+Goths+Sicilians.

Medieval Greeks=Byzantines, Numidians=Berbers during the Roman timeframe, Egyptians during AoE2=Mamluk Sultanate, medieval North America north of the Aztecs=boring. Irish could be interesting though. More Asian factions would be interesting as fuck. We still don't have Tibetans, Turks are one entity instead of Seljuk and Ottoman, the whole of the Asian middle east is just ''Saracens'' and Persians (ie Sassanids) and even more Indian civs can be added. Considering the vast timeframe covered in the campaigns (ie Huns, Goths and the fall of Rome to late 1500s Imjin War), a unified ''Chinese'' civ doesn't make much sense either.
You have to pander to the commiecunt revisionist $$$, you know.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
You have to pander to the commiecunt revisionist $$$, you know.
Yeah I know, the impossibility of a Tibetan civ was discussed earlier in the thread. Fortunately, its easier to offend said cult than make it buy your games; as can be seen with the developer inactivity around AoM: Tale of the Dragon and TW: Three Kingdoms. At least they don't offer up their money for bad games in a patriotic skin.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,118
You have to pander to the commiecunt revisionist $$$, you know.
Yeah I know, the impossibility of a Tibetan civ was discussed earlier in the thread. Fortunately, its easier to offend said cult than make it buy your games; as can be seen with the developer inactivity around AoM: Tale of the Dragon and TW: Three Kingdoms. At least they don't offer up their money for bad games in a patriotic skin.
This happened yesterday:

===============================
A political activist and Qld senate candidate has had to be protected by police after a protest against China’s president turned ugly.
===============================

Motherfucking mainlanders should be jailed for assault, attempted murder, sedition, rampant stupidity unbecoming of humans, jaywalking and impersonating a chimpanzee. And then sent back to China. Via trebuchet.
 

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