Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition (AKA AoE2 HD HD)

[Preben]

Decades later and still no byz campaign lol....just sad. Instead of focusing on new shitty civs they could just flash out the old ones without campaigns.

Byzantines have the Bari campaign.
And they do flesh out the existing civs. For example the Britons finally got their campaign in Lords of the West.

 

[d1r]

Wonder if they pull the plug on AoE4 and focus entirely on AoE2.

Feels great to see AoE4 failing that spectacularly.

 

[Lacrymas]

AoE4 just doesn't offer anything that AoE2 doesn't. AoE2 is very old school in the sense there is no bullshit and everything is straightforward in a good way. Even the graphics are better. On top of that, AoE2 offers a staggering amount of single player content and all the polls suggest people play these games mostly in single player.

 

[Cael]

I find it rather hilarious how AoE3 never gets a mention. It crashed that hard.

 

[Young_Hollow]

I find it rather hilarious how AoE3 never gets a mention. It crashed that hard.

It has its own community that shifted from the old version to the DE and they conduct their own tournaments but exist in the underground, much like AoE2 did before 2013. The biggest loser is AoM, which had a competitive scene before the extended edition and a still unfixed expansion came out but now seems to have died or at least decreased substantially in size. AoE1 had a competitive scene scene before its DE but I don't know about how it fares currently.

 

[thesheeep]

AoE4 just doesn't offer anything that AoE2 doesn't. AoE2 is very old school in the sense there is no bullshit and everything is straightforward in a good way. Even the graphics are better. On top of that, AoE2 offers a staggering amount of single player content and all the polls suggest people play these games mostly in single player.

I also only play these games for the single player and AoE4 really did not offer much there.
I think I was done after what, 20-30 hours, then played some skirmish and that's it.
No mission was even remotely as long (or hard) as some in AoE2 could be.

They didn't even release a campaign for all civs! And the campaigns that they did release had this (well made, at least) documentary style which made sure you never actually felt immersed in anything.
A conquest-style campaign would go a long way to give an RTS some longevity even for SP, but somehow, practically no developer does that.

Gameplay-wise I strongly prefer both AoE4 and 3 over 2, with 3 being the clear winner thanks to the agenda it allowed the player.

MP-wise, didn't they even launch without a ranking system initially?
Apparently now, about 6 months after release, they seem to have implemented it.
And players seemingly still cannot select their color in matches.

So, all in all, with the lackluster single player content (and the way the menus are built in-game), it seems to me that the game was designed for multiplayer first and foremost.
But they failed even harder when it comes to MP.
It's just... all of this seems totally insane to me.

 

[Young_Hollow]

AoE4 just doesn't offer anything that AoE2 doesn't. AoE2 is very old school in the sense there is no bullshit and everything is straightforward in a good way. Even the graphics are better. On top of that, AoE2 offers a staggering amount of single player content and all the polls suggest people play these games mostly in single player.

I also only play these games for the single player and AoE4 really did not offer much there.
I think I was done after what, 20-30 hours, then played some skirmish and that's it.
No mission was even remotely as long (or hard) as some in AoE2 could be.

They didn't even release a campaign for all civs! And the campaigns that they did release had this (well made, at least) documentary style which made sure you never actually felt immersed in anything.
A conquest-style campaign would go a long way to give an RTS some longevity even for SP, but somehow, practically no developer does that.

Gameplay-wise I strongly prefer both AoE4 and 3 over 2, with 3 being the clear winner thanks to the agenda it allowed the player.

MP-wise, didn't they even launch without a ranking system initially?
Apparently now, about 6 months after release, they seem to have implemented it.
And players seemingly still cannot select their color in matches.

So, all in all, with the lackluster single player content (and the way the menus are built in-game), it seems to me that the game was designed for multiplayer first and foremost.
But they failed even harder when it comes to MP.
It's just... all of this seems totally insane to me.

It probably makes sense from Relic's POV considering they were ordered to clone AoE2 while working on CoH3 and they only had experience with squad RTSs and not full-blown RTSs like AoE.

From what I've seen of AoE4, its much lighter on micro than 3 or 2 and not much to my taste. AoE2 is is the most micro-heavy (if you discount AoE1 with its nitwit villagers and lack of military formations) in the series while AoE3 is probably the most macro heavy since it has a whole layer of gameplay around building up towards the right home city shipment cards and utilizing them effectively. AoM had the greatest faction-faction differences and a mixture of AoE2 and AoE3 playstyles. In terms of advancing the series though, AoE4 could've finally made naval combat something more than a B-game but instead they chose to play it safe with everything.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I'm honestly very surprised that IV got the starting peak that it did and that it still manages to maintain somewhat respectable concurrent player numbers. Judging by the "support" and "patching" that the game got, so are the people at microsoft. Public must be really hungry for a new, proper RTS.

 

[Preben]

I'm honestly very surprised that IV got the starting peak that it did and that it still manages to maintain somewhat respectable concurrent player numbers. Judging by the "support" and "patching" that the game got, so are the people at microsoft. Public must be really hungry for a new, proper RTS.

Lots of cash was thrown into the PR department, including several AoE2 youtubers "moving" onto the new game. Now everyone is backpedalling and returning to the original game.

 

[a Goat]

Some details on the new expac, tech trees for new civs are out there as well but they're yuge images so I'm not gonna put them here to not slow down the forum too much

Spoiler

Explore history in all of its epic moments in
Dynasties of India
– the exciting third expansion for
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition
. It is
available now for pre-order
or to add to your wishlist – we know you’ve been waiting! Here are some of the new features you can expect:

• Three new civilizations for you to master and challenge your friends, each including new unique units and technologies.
  
• Battle your way through three new campaigns spanning across India, uncover betrayals and reclaim your lands while immersing yourself in the stories of history.
  
• Earn 23 new achievements on your Xbox or Steam account! Full list below.

Dynasties of India
will be released on Steam on
April 28, 2022
!

Three New Civilizations


The Bengalis

Navigate the winding rivers and dense jungles of Bengal as you build a thriving economy to fuel unstoppable armies of elephants. The Bengali unique unit is the Ratha, a sturdy chariot that can switch between melee and ranged attack modes.

The Bengalis focus on elephant and naval units. Bengali elephants, in addition to benefiting from a strong technology tree, are more resistant to anti-elephant bonus damage than those of other civilizations. Additionally, their attack speed can be boosted by researching the unique technology Paiks, which also improves Rathas. Bengali ships regenerate hitpoints, increasing their longevity. These strengths are built on the back of a strong economy.

Bengali Town Centers automatically spawn additional Villagers whenever each next Age is reached, and the Bengalis can support a larger economy after researching the unique technology Mahayana, which reduces the amount of population space that each Villager takes up. Finally, Bengali trade units and those of their allies generate food in addition to the gold that is accumulated during each trip to/from an allied Market.

Elephant and Naval Civilization
▶︎ CIVILIZATION BONUSES

• Elephant units receive 25% less bonus damage and are more resistant to conversion.
  
• Town Centers spawn 2 Villagers when the next Age is reached.
  
• Ships regenerate 15 HP per minute.

▶︎ UNIQUE UNITS, BUILDINGS, AND TECHNOLOGIES

Unique Units

• Ratha
  – Bengali unique chariot that can switch between melee and ranged attacks. Strong vs. infantry. Weak vs. Skirmishers and Camel Riders.
  
• Armored Elephant
  – Anti-building cavalry unit. Resistant to most ranged attacks. Weak vs. melee units. Cannot be converted by enemy Monks from distance.

Unique Techs

• Paiks (Rathas and elephant units attack 20% faster)
  
• Mahayana (Villagers take 10% less population space)

Team Bonus:
Trade units yield 10% food in addition to gold


The Dravidians

Seize control of the lucrative Indian Ocean trade routes and utilize advanced metallurgy as you build one of the wealthiest sea empires of medieval Asia. The Dravidian unique units are the Urumi Swordsman, a warrior wielding a scathing flexible sword, and the Thirisadai, a massive vessel that dominates the high seas.

The Dravidians focus on infantry and naval units. Cheaper Barracks technologies, a strong technology tree, the devastating Urumi Swordsman unique unit, and the unique technology Wootz Steel — which causes infantry and cavalry attacks to ignore the armor of enemy units — make Dravidian infantry among the most formidable in the game. In addition to being able to access the powerful Thirisadai, Dravidian naval power is augmented by increased carry capacity for Fishing Ships and Fishermen, as well as the fact that their Docks and those of their allies provide additional population room.

However, another Dravidian trademark is pure versatility. Upon advancing to each next Age, the Dravidians receive 200 additional wood that can be put towards a variety of uses and strategies. Their Skirmishers and Elephant Archers fire faster, making them more effective in combat. Additionally, their elephant units will regenerate hit points once the unique technology Medical Corps is researched, increasing their longevity.

Infantry and Naval civilization
▶︎ CIVILIZATION BONUSES

• Receive +200 wood when advancing to the next age.
  
• Fishermen and Fishing Ships carry +15.
  
• Barracks technologies cost -50%.
  
• Skirmishers and Elephant Archers attack 25% faster.

▶︎ UNIQUE UNITS, BUILDINGS, AND TECHNOLOGIES

Unique Units

• Urumi Swordsman
  – Dravidian unique infantry unit which can charge its attack. Strong vs. buildings and infantry. Weak vs. archers at long range.
  
• Armored Elephant
  – Anti-building cavalry unit. Resistant to most ranged attacks. Weak vs. melee units. Cannot be converted by enemy Monks from distance.
  
• Thirisadai
  – Dravidian unique warship that fires multiple projectiles. Strong vs. warships.

Unique Techs

• Medical Corps (Elephant units regenerate 20 HP per minute)
  
• Wootz Steel (Infantry and cavalry attacks ignore armor)

Team Bonus:
Team Bonus: Docks provide +5 population room


The Gurjaras

Ride swift mounts across the fertile fields and open plains of western India and unleash diverse armies of sturdy warriors upon your enemies. The Gurjara unique units are the Shrivamsha Rider, a speedy cavalry unit that can dodge enemy attacks, and the Chakram Thrower, an infantry unit that unleashes volleys of deadly metal discs.

The Gurjaras also begin the game with a Camel Scout instead of a Scout Cavalry, and can train more Camel Scouts starting in the Feudal Age.The Gurjaras focus on cavalry and camelry. Their mounted units deal additional bonus damage against the enemy units that they counter, while their camelry and elephants — and those of their teammates — also train faster. Gurjara camelry also benefit from additional armor once the unique technology Frontier Guards is researched.

The Gurjaras also benefit from a variety of useful economic bonuses. They begin the game with two additional Forage Bushes near their Town Center, and they can garrison livestock inside of Mills to slowly but indefinitely generate food instead of slaughtering them with Villagers. Gurjara Docks can be garrisoned by Fishing Ships, allowing theirs and those of their allies to take refuge when under attack. Finally, researching the unique technology Kshatriyas reduces the food cost of all military units, making them more affordable and easy to mass.

Cavalry and Camel civilization
▶︎ CIVILIZATION BONUSES

• Start with 2 Forage Bushes
  
• Can garrison Mills with livestock to produce food
  
• Mounted units deal +50% bonus damage
  
• Can garrison Docks with Fishing Ships

▶︎ UNIQUE UNITS, BUILDINGS, AND TECHNOLOGIES

Unique Units

• Chakram Thrower
  – Gurjara unique infantry unit with ranged melee attack. Strong vs. infantry. Weak vs. archers and siege weapons.
  
• Shrivamsha Rider
  – Gurjara unique light cavalry unit which can dodge projectiles. Strong vs. archers. Weak vs. Pikemen and Camel Riders.
  
• Camel Scout
  – Gurjara unique scout unit. Strong vs. cavalry. Weak vs. Pikemen, Monks, and archers.
  
• Armored Elephant
  – Anti-building cavalry unit. Resistant to most ranged attacks. Weak vs. melee units. Cannot be converted by enemy Monks from distance.

Unique Techs

• Kshatriyas (Military units cost -25% food)
  
• Frontier Guards (Camel Riders and Elephant Archers +4 melee armor)

Team Bonus:
Camel and elephant units created 25% faster


THREE NEW FULLY-VOICED CAMPAIGNS


Babur

Nearly a century after Tamerlane’s death, his descendants are still fighting for supremacy in Transoxiana and Persia. The youngest among them is Zahir ud-Din Muhammad – also known as Babur, ‘the tiger’. He dreams of restoring the crumbled empire, but another wave of invading horsemen from the northern steppes is about to change everything. In this campaign, you will play as the Tatars and Hindustanis.

Rajendra

The dread of inevitable corruption plagues the ambitious Rajendra Chola as he navigates the harsh political climate of south India. Can Rajendra escape moral decay as he expands the empire that he inherited from his father, or is his fear of corruption the true enemy within? In this campaign, you will play as the Dravidians.

Devapala

Guided by the teachings of Mahayana Buddhism, Devapala rules a rich and vibrant empire. However, as dangerous rivals threaten his realm, the ambitious emperor finds it increasingly difficult to balance his policies with his morals. Will the ends ultimately justify the means, or will Devapala’s quest for his own enlightenment and that of his subjects fail? In this campaign, you will play as the Bengalis.




NEW ACHIEVEMENTS

Unlock and earn brand-new achievements on Steam!

Achievement Name
Achievement Condition
Points
The Persian Tiger
Complete the Babur campaign.
10
Never Trust a Campaign AI
Ignore Kabul’s offer to form a non-aggression pact in “The Last Timurids”.
15
An Offer You Khan’t Refuse
Convert both Alam Khan and Daulat Khan in “The Battle of Panipat”.
20
The Renovator
Repair all 4 Town Centers in the devastated villages in “The Rajputs”.
15
Like Father, Like Son
Complete the Rajendra campaign.
10
No Rest for the Wicked
Defeat Mannaram and Polonnaruwa without capturing a Town Center in Rajendra #2.
15
Eye of the Tiger
Defeat all enemy factions in “Rising Star”.
15
No Wonder You Won
Win the game before Mahipala completes his Wonder in “Sacred Waters”.
20
Won’t You Take Me by the Hand
Complete the Devapala campaign.
10
Huna Join Me?
Convert all 3 Huna Khans in “Renunciation”.
15
Construction Cancellation
Destroy the Rashtrakuta Wonder before it is completed in “Liberation?”.
15
Parinirvana
Accumulate 100 piety points in “Enlightenment”.
20
Raja of the People
Save both allied villages in “Born of Fire” on Hard difficulty.
15
Hopeless Romantic
Win “Hand of a Princess” with 12+ minutes remaining on the timer.
15
Inspiring Poet
Convert all Rajas before the Ghorids attack in Prithviraj #5 on Hard difficulty.
20
Bengali Victory
Win a game playing as the Bengalis.
5
Dravidian Victory
Win a game playing as the Dravidians.
5
Gurjara Victory
Win a game playing as the Gurjaras.
5
Face My Ratha
Train 10 Rathas as the Bengalis.
5
King of the Seas
Sink 10 enemy ships with Thirisadais as the Dravidians.
5
Forged in the Heat of Battle
Train 10 Chakram Throwers as the Gurjaras.
5


Hindustanis (Previously Indians)

Stake your claim to populous, diverse lands and lucrative trade routes as you parry foreign invasions – or step into the invader’s shoes yourself. The Hindustani unique units are the Ghulam, a heavily armored infantry unit adept against masses of archers, and the Imperial Camel Rider, a powerful unique upgrade to the Heavy Camel Rider.

The Hindustanis focus on camelry and gunpowder units. Their camelry attack faster than those of other civilizations and deal additional damage to buildings, while their gunpowder units are more heavily armored than their counterparts. The Hindustanis can also research the unique technology Shatagni, which increases the range of Hand Cannoneers.

The Hindustanis also have an excellent economy. Their Villagers are less expensive than those of other civilizations, and the unique technology Grand Trunk Road boosts all sources of gold income. Additionally, they can construct the Caravanserai, a building that heals and increases the speed of trade units within its vicinity.
This civ is available to play without purchase of
Dynasties of India
.
Elephant and Naval Civilization
▶︎ CIVILIZATION BONUSES

• Villagers cost -10% Dark, -15% Feudal, -20% Castle, -25% Imperial Age
  
• Camel Riders attack 25% faster
  
• Gunpowder units +1/+1P armor
  
• Can build Caravanserai in Imperial Age

▶︎ UNIQUE UNITS, BUILDINGS, AND TECHNOLOGIES

Unique Units

• Ghulam
  – Hindustani unique infantry unit that thrusts its spear through multiple targets. Strong vs. archers. Weak vs. cavalry.
  
• Imperial Camel Rider
  (camel rider)

Unique Buildings:

• Caravanserai
  – Economic building. Heals and increases speed of Trade Carts in a 10 tile radius. Unique building of the Hindustanis.

Unique Techs

• Grand Trunk Road (All gold income 10% faster)
  
• Shatagni (Hand Cannoneers +2 range)

Team Bonus:
Camel and light cavalry units +2 attack vs. buildings

 

[Lacrymas]

Decades later and still no byz campaign lol....just sad. Instead of focusing on new shitty civs they could just flash out the old ones without campaigns.

They always add a campaign featuring an old civ with these DLCs. Lords of the West with Edward Longshanks and Dawn of the Dukes with the Lithuanians. I don't see a reason to suspect they won't continue doing this.

Well, I was completely wrong.

 

[fantadomat]

shame that we will see another dlc in an area with the most annoying units in the game ....... elephants......sad. Elephans are really annoying unit to use and to kill,it just have retarded ai and shitton of hp and cheap cringe ones like the ballista elephants.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Un-sheath you wallets people

 

[Young_Hollow]

From those new civs, the Bengali seemed to be the strongest at first sight. Seem like a economically strong civ to me.

Un-sheath you wallets people

Wow, twenty BR bucks. Good price.

Yeah the price is quite good considering Dawn of the Dukes released at the same price with only 2 civs. The announcement also coincides with many Indian states' new year celebrations.

The new Tech Trees are out on the officially janitored forums, EDIT some civ details in obnoxiously high resolution: https://www.ageofempires.com/news/dynasties_of_india_is_here/

Bengalis: https://www.ageofempires.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/BengalisTechTree4k.png
Dravidians: https://www.ageofempires.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/DravidiansTechTree4k.png
Gurjaras: https://www.ageofempires.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/GurjarasTechTree4k.png
Hindustanis (old Indians): https://www.ageofempires.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/HindustanisTechTree4k.png

-All four Indian civs lose battering, capped and siege ram and instead get the Armored Elephant and Siege Elephant units in the siege workshop instead
-All three of the expansion civs get Elephant Archers and Battle Elephants in the Stable and Archery Range as generic units EDIT: Gurjaras don't get Battle Elephants
-Hindustanis, ie old Indians lose the Elephant Archer as their UU and instead get the Ghulam spearman as their UU
-All four of the Indian civs don't have the Knight line
-Plenty of other stuff that will destroy balance for the forseeable future

 

[a Goat]

Plenty of other stuff that will destroy balance for the forseeable future

My observation is that they have some really strong features for nomad and team games.

Bengalis for instance will get rolled over in 1v1 arabia because they're just too backloaded(the 2 free villagers after going up thing isn't enough for early game eco bonus) and while they will be a bit awkward to fit into teamgame meta the gigantic lategame economy and trade bonus will make them too good to pass on - especially teamed up with the Spanish. A good thing because the reward seems good enough for breaking the meta to be worth it.

Dravidians are potential competitors on water, on land they will prob resemble Malay a lot, we'll see.

Gurjaras and Hindustanis are similar tech tree wise, it's just that Gurjaras will be the quantity camel civ while Hindus. will be the quality camel civ. Depending on how good the permanent food trickle from sheep is Gurjaras may be either loaded with useless gimmick that makes them super strong on like Nomad or Yucatan, or they will have alternative build order in general. The camel scout thing is interesting too, you just can't really play stable against them.

Hindustani are Indians revamped, hard to say about the direction of changes. Their camels are losing their bonus armour but get attack speed, their gunpowder gets a small armour bonus instead and they get anti-archer infantry unit, possibly also will trade well against other infantries, they get last cav armour again so hussars are going to do better. I think they've used to have Parthian tactics and now they don't so that's also something. New unique building seems to be a gimmick but then again, if placed well in TG it may improve the efficiency a bit. Indians are kind of in weird place where their eco is super good but their unit options are just openly bad unless you're against someone who just has to go knights so if you look at what has changed it seems to pull them out of that place a bit.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Plenty of other stuff that will destroy balance for the forseeable future

My observation is that they have some really strong features for nomad and team games.

Bengalis for instance will get rolled over in 1v1 arabia because they're just too backloaded(the 2 free villagers after going up thing isn't enough for early game eco bonus) and while they will be a bit awkward to fit into teamgame meta the gigantic lategame economy and trade bonus will make them too good to pass on - especially teamed up with the Spanish. A good thing because the reward seems good enough for breaking the meta to be worth it.

Dravidians are potential competitors on water, on land they will prob resemble Malay a lot, we'll see.

Gurjaras and Hindustanis are similar tech tree wise, it's just that Gurjaras will be the quantity camel civ while Hindus. will be the quality camel civ. Depending on how good the permanent food trickle from sheep is Gurjaras may be either loaded with useless gimmick that makes them super strong on like Nomad or Yucatan, or they will have alternative build order in general. The camel scout thing is interesting too, you just can't really play stable against them.

Hindustani are Indians revamped, hard to say about the direction of changes. Their camels are losing their bonus armour but get attack speed, their gunpowder gets a small armour bonus instead and they get anti-archer infantry unit, possibly also will trade well against other infantries, they get last cav armour again so hussars are going to do better. I think they've used to have Parthian tactics and now they don't so that's also something. New unique building seems to be a gimmick but then again, if placed well in TG it may improve the efficiency a bit. Indians are kind of in weird place where their eco is super good but their unit options are just openly bad unless you're against someone who just has to go knights so if you look at what has changed it seems to pull them out of that place a bit.

Considering the useless to overpowered nature of team bonuses, I don't think they're even considering teamgame balance beyond trying to not appear openly broken. 1v1 wise,

Bengalis is Dark Age do look really uncompetitive because 2 free vills in early feudal will take time to contribute to anything, advancing to Feudal with 2 less vills still doesn't offer much of an advantage and they have to wait until their first elephants are out until any of their other bonuses get to work. You'll also have to remember to build an extra house in many cases because the extra free vills may pop block you once you reach feudal / castle. If the team isn't careful they could be Italians 2.0.

Dravidians look like a good archer / early rushing civ on open open maps and a good booming choice for closed maps. Britons save 275 wood across 2 TCs vs their 200 wood from ageing up to castle+200 wood from feudal and considering how Britons are considered a good booming civ, I think this bonus may be toned down in future. I agree with what you said about having good eco but not very good units, and they seem to be a great example of it. Not giving them Thumbring is also weird decision.

Gurjaras will sink or swin purely based on how well they balance the camel scout and their sheep garrisoning bonus and from their historical indecisiveness about camels, I'm not very hopeful. Being weak to spears or archers is difficult to manage in feudal but being weak to both is unique blessing and while the steppe rider at least has its ranged attack, this seems to have nothing going for it in theory, especially when having enough gold miners for camels+archers will be very difficult for a feudal economy.

Hindustanis seem to have gotten really nerfed more than anything with previously working or at least benign stuff transposed to other civs while its focus was concentrated on gunpowder and camels. The villager bonus at least lets them move through the ages a bit easier but they too seem to now rely on gimmicky units even more than before. I'd argue their a weaker version of Turks at this point because Turkish Cav Archers with Spahi, freely upgraded Hussars and Janissaries are probably better than marginally stronger Hand Cannoneers, gold-vampire camels and a spearman that's weak to cavalry.

 

[Preben]

g

 

[a Goat]

Hindustanis seem to have gotten really nerfed more than anything with previously working or at least benign stuff transposed to other civs while its focus was concentrated on gunpowder and camels. The villager bonus at least lets them move through the ages a bit easier but they too seem to now rely on gimmicky units even more than before. I'd argue their a weaker version of Turks at this point because Turkish Cav Archers with Spahi, freely upgraded Hussars and Janissaries are probably better than marginally stronger Hand Cannoneers, gold-vampire camels and a spearman that's weak to cavalry.

Discounting maps with shorefish they haven't changed that much and I'd say it's a positive. The handcannon buff is helpful for one super shit matchup they have(against goths) and probably will make the unit more prevalent(right now if you see infatnry as indians in imp. you just build cav archers 100% of the time), the camels have higher damage output at the price of losing 1 point of pierce armour in castle age(and effectively gaining 1 melee in imp) but theoretically their UU is some sort of quirky huskarl so it shouldn't be that impactful. Big question is how good or bad the elephant rams are going to be, because if the elite elephant is better than capped ram that's also a plus.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Hindustanis seem to have gotten really nerfed more than anything with previously working or at least benign stuff transposed to other civs while its focus was concentrated on gunpowder and camels. The villager bonus at least lets them move through the ages a bit easier but they too seem to now rely on gimmicky units even more than before. I'd argue their a weaker version of Turks at this point because Turkish Cav Archers with Spahi, freely upgraded Hussars and Janissaries are probably better than marginally stronger Hand Cannoneers, gold-vampire camels and a spearman that's weak to cavalry.

Discounting maps with shorefish they haven't changed that much and I'd say it's a positive. The handcannon buff is helpful for one super shit matchup they have(against goths) and probably will make the unit more prevalent(right now if you see infatnry as indians in imp. you just build cav archers 100% of the time), the camels have higher damage output at the price of losing 1 point of pierce armour in castle age(and effectively gaining 1 melee in imp) but theoretically their UU is some sort of quirky huskarl so it shouldn't be that impactful. Big question is how good or bad the elephant rams are going to be, because if the elite elephant is better than capped ram that's also a plus.

Never considered their performance vs Goths. According to this site: https://aoe2techtree.net/#Goths , Hand Cannoneers have 40hp and even with 1 or 2 extra armor(ie 1 base and 5/6 after upgrades), Huskarls with their +10 anti-archer bonus will do 12+4+10=26 damage vs them and kill them in two hits anyway, if they can get close fast enough. Though vs their Champ and Halb horde, it probably helps much more. Speaking of Goths though, they're probably a big headache for many other cavalry-based civs as well, and are well known absolute counter to Britons. I even recall a tournament game where the players randomly matched up as Brits vs Goths and the victorious Goth said it was a purely civ-win. Wonder if they'll ever fix it.

HCs generally are still quite inferior to the archer line and I don't see a way to fix them without completely changing how they are currently. Archers already do +3 vs the spearman line and since the militia line and infantry UUs are less commonly seen, most people use them instead of hand cannoneers except in situations where a flood of stronger infantry is expected, and they do better in most of those cases.

Yes, the Ghulam and Siege Elephant will play a big role in their success, and the former seems to be designed as an all-in-one counter to the units that vex camels and HCs (ie archers). Giving them a better balanced roster would've been better but it seems the devs are adamant on not giving any Indian civ knights so they're heaping a lot of roles onto one unit, similar to how they did with the Chieftains tech for Vikings.

 

[Cael]

HCs generally are still quite inferior to the archer line and I don't see a way to fix them without completely changing how they are currently. Archers already do +3 vs the spearman line and since the militia line and infantry UUs are less commonly seen, most people use them instead of hand cannoneers except in situations where a flood of stronger infantry is expected, and they do better in most of those cases.

I recall a game where it was Maya vs Turks, and the Mayan were not only holding off the Turks using nothing but Plumies and Halberdiers, but also sending out raiding parties of Plumies across the map to interdict the other team's trade carts. The Chinese tried to take out that raiding party with Chuks and was promptly massacred by Plumies.

Archers are absolutely no joke.

 

[Young_Hollow]

HCs generally are still quite inferior to the archer line and I don't see a way to fix them without completely changing how they are currently. Archers already do +3 vs the spearman line and since the militia line and infantry UUs are less commonly seen, most people use them instead of hand cannoneers except in situations where a flood of stronger infantry is expected, and they do better in most of those cases.

I recall a game where it was Maya vs Turks, and the Mayan were not only holding off the Turks using nothing but Plumies and Halberdiers, but also sending out raiding parties of Plumies across the map to interdict the other team's trade carts. The Chinese tried to take out that raiding party with Chuks and was promptly massacred by Plumies.

Archers are absolutely no joke.

Plumes were the most OP archers when AoC released in 2001 and they were nerfed along with the Mayans in general because they were so powerful. Unlike Longbowmen that also lack Thumbring, Plumes get 1 bonus damage vs Huskarls which means they do 2 damage instead of 1 and take them out with 50% less hits than Arbalests and Lbows. Look at this game from pre-HD days: http://www.cysion.be/aocbox/?p=376

 

[Cael]

HCs generally are still quite inferior to the archer line and I don't see a way to fix them without completely changing how they are currently. Archers already do +3 vs the spearman line and since the militia line and infantry UUs are less commonly seen, most people use them instead of hand cannoneers except in situations where a flood of stronger infantry is expected, and they do better in most of those cases.

I recall a game where it was Maya vs Turks, and the Mayan were not only holding off the Turks using nothing but Plumies and Halberdiers, but also sending out raiding parties of Plumies across the map to interdict the other team's trade carts. The Chinese tried to take out that raiding party with Chuks and was promptly massacred by Plumies.

Archers are absolutely no joke.

Plumes were the most OP archers when AoC released in 2001 and they were nerfed along with the Mayans in general because they were so powerful. Unlike Longbowmen that also lack Thumbring, Plumes get 1 bonus damage vs Huskarls which means they do 2 damage instead of 1 and take them out with 50% less hits than Arbalests and Lbows. Look at this game from pre-HD days: http://www.cysion.be/aocbox/?p=376

Yeah. I never realised how OP they were until that game. On paper they didn't look that good, with below average damage, until you realise they had something like 65 HP and pierce armoured out the wazoo, and attack 50% faster.

 

[Young_Hollow]

HCs generally are still quite inferior to the archer line and I don't see a way to fix them without completely changing how they are currently. Archers already do +3 vs the spearman line and since the militia line and infantry UUs are less commonly seen, most people use them instead of hand cannoneers except in situations where a flood of stronger infantry is expected, and they do better in most of those cases.

I recall a game where it was Maya vs Turks, and the Mayan were not only holding off the Turks using nothing but Plumies and Halberdiers, but also sending out raiding parties of Plumies across the map to interdict the other team's trade carts. The Chinese tried to take out that raiding party with Chuks and was promptly massacred by Plumies.

Archers are absolutely no joke.

Plumes were the most OP archers when AoC released in 2001 and they were nerfed along with the Mayans in general because they were so powerful. Unlike Longbowmen that also lack Thumbring, Plumes get 1 bonus damage vs Huskarls which means they do 2 damage instead of 1 and take them out with 50% less hits than Arbalests and Lbows. Look at this game from pre-HD days: http://www.cysion.be/aocbox/?p=376

Yeah. I never realised how OP they were until that game. On paper they didn't look that good, with below average damage, until you realise they had something like 65 HP and pierce armoured out the wazoo, and attack 50% faster.

Yup, being able to live a Mango shot in castle age an Onager shot in imperial is huge by itself, not mentioning the fact that they can run away from many counters and hit and run many other units.

 

[Jvegi]

So after playing HD for a couple of days I've bought DE (thx Zboj Lamignat). Runs like a dream on my shitty laptop and doesn't take 30 gigs at all. I've been playing it for 3-4 days with 15.6 hours played.

Fast-paced gameplay is nothing like I remember from my childhood, but I guess I was playing it wrong back then. After watching lots of YT videos I can beat 2 moderate AIs without issues. Have not tried higher difficulties yet, but I'm definitely having trouble managing everything in the late-game, keeping villagers busy and spending resources. I'm also not sure if getting into another multiplayer time sink is a good idea.

 

[Young_Hollow]

So after playing HD for a couple of days I've bought DE (thx Zboj Lamignat). Runs like a dream on my shitty laptop and doesn't take 30 gigs at all. I've been playing it for 3-4 days with 15.6 hours played.

Fast-paced gameplay is nothing like I remember from my childhood, but I guess I was playing it wrong back then. After watching lots of YT videos I can beat 2 moderate AIs without issues. Have not tried higher difficulties yet, but I'm definitely having trouble managing everything in the late-game, keeping villagers busy and spending resources. I'm also not sure if getting into another multiplayer time sink is a good idea.

Congrats on beating to Moderate AIs! The new AIs play a lot like humans, or at least a lot closer to what makes sense mathematically compared to the old, pre-HD one. The biggest problem with it is that it will build units and often not use them for anything, enabling you to age up without military while its sitting in economic crisis trying to catch up while the military it created chills in its base. Contrary to this the old AI, called ''Standard AI'' now had a tendency to rush and suicide its units, even on maps not conductive to early aggression. Which map did you try playing on? Before I got rusty, I could beat one Hard AI though I'm not too sure if I can now.

What are your system specs? The MP is barred until you pass a benchmark and I couldn't pass it with my old AMD FX and RX550 though my RX 570+Potato Athlon 200GE does pass it. Both configs ran 1v1 well enough to play though. I've read that DE is very single-core performance reliant so high end GPUs aren't necessarily required to pass the benchmark.