TBS Age of Wonders 1 & 2

[octavius]

I had fun with the listings when making my SM mod. Not much variation in vanilla and 1.4 didn't touch them, so I added many lists where you could encounter some of the new 1.4 units, for example. Worked very well in practice.

BTW, breath attacks not working at melee range only happens some times.

 

[Norfleet]

I shortened the selection of possible raze defenders in that mod, and clearly the game considers empty listings as still a valid choice unfortunately.

What happens if you just duplicate entries instead of leaving them as empty?

 

[BING XI LAO]

I shortened the selection of possible raze defenders in that mod, and clearly the game considers empty listings as still a valid choice unfortunately.

What happens if you just duplicate entries instead of leaving them as empty?

Probably works 100% fine in that case

 

[visions]

Does anyone know if concealment works against the AI in AOW1? I've read on the GOG forum that it doesn't but the GOG forum has its fair share of false information (people mixing up mechanics from AoW1 and AoW2). Before reading this claim on the GOG forum, I always used units with concealment in a manner that assumes that concealment works and can't recall having been attacked by any AI player when doing so. So I was surprised when reading this claim.

I'm replaying the campaign and my lone concealed orc assassins haven't been attacked by any AI player now either. Just loaded up a save and tested it. With my assassin in concealment the AI player didn't attack him. Moved him out of concealment and was attacked. I'm too lazy to conduct more than one test today but does anyone know for certain?

 

[razvedchiki]

whats mods should i use with patches 1.4/1.5?

 

[octavius]

For SP I recommend Petrus's SP mod. It's partly based on 1.4.

 

[octavius]

I'm gonna test out BING XI LAO's Ziggurat mod.
Since I play only SP I've decided to modify some of the units, and entirely replace a couple of others.

The two most "problematic" units to me are the Incarnate, since the AI can't deal with or use it properly, and I myself find it boring, and the Undead Wraith due to the PI which the AI can't deal with.

So I replaced the Incarnate (keeping the name, though) with this:

Spoiler

In Morrowind the Dark Elves had Ancestor Ghosts as racial ability, and in Shadow Magic the Sword Dancer is a very fun unit. So this unit is based on those concepts.
It gets Lightning Strike on Silver and First Strike on Gold and with only 13 HP it's a bit of a glass cannon.
I made a small test map just to see how it looks in-game, so its DF and RES is lower than it should be (5 and 8) with a normal morale.


I changed the Undead Wraith to this:

Spoiler

This is of course based on the AD&D concept of ghouls, with Entangle Strike mimicing the paralyzing touch.
I think it will be a unit worth building, since it complements the other units very well.

Let me know what you think of these units. Are they too weak or too OP compared to their costs (177 and 41 respectively)?

 

[BING XI LAO]

If you can make the effort, you could replace the Incarnate with Lagi's Hydra. Seem like okay designs to me but maybe the ghoul should be weaker, Entangle strike is excellent.

I think Zigg mod still has the Hydra available as a unit graphic in the files.

 

[octavius]

I tried the Hydra with MolzyMod once. It certainly helped make the AI Dark Elf player stronger. But I think the Hydra is just too radical a change.

 

[octavius]

Hmm, did Cave Crawling bug out with Ziggurat Mod, BING XI LAO?

(Nature Elemental does not have Free Movement)

 

[BING XI LAO]

Cave Crawling doesn't work on tiles with those green reeds growing on them. It also doesn't work on mushrooms, though that part might be my fault - but probably isn't.

 

[octavius]

I'm noticing a big shift in the power between Elves and Dark Elves with the Ziggurat Mod. Nature Elementals are no longer invincible against most enemies, and Shadows and Executioners are now quite a bit more fearsome. So my own version of the Incarnate (spirit of a former sword master) is not as suitable for this mod as for vanilla.

I like it so far, especially that heroes are no longer the main combat units, but more important as spell casters and for special abilities like True Seeing.

 

[BING XI LAO]

I'm noticing a big shift in the power between Elves and Dark Elves with the Ziggurat Mod. Nature Elementals are no longer invincible against most enemies, and Shadows and Executioners are now quite a bit more fearsome.

Hmm, why are Nature Elementals weaker? Also, what would happen vs AI if you had the basegame Incarnate, but without Phys imm?

 

[octavius]

Hmm, why are Nature Elementals weaker?

I see they are not really weaker than in vanilla, but against Executioners they certainly feel weaker. Also, I've mostly used MolzyMod since I started replaying AoW1 and that mod increased both HP and Movement, making them extra strong.

Also, what would happen vs AI if you had the basegame Incarnate, but without Phys imm?

I remember when I started playing AoW1 that I thought abilities like Possess and Dominate was exciting, but when I started to master the game I felt they were too easy to abuse, so I've mostly ignore them, and when playing Dark Elves (also in Shadow Magic) I've only built lvl 3 or lesser units.
Not sure how the AI would fare against them, but at least if wouldn't be more left to the chance of the AI having units with Magic Strike.

 

[octavius]

Nature Elemantals still rule (as long as they can avoid Executioners):

The Black Dragons have been modified to be more like Glaurung than Ancalagon the Black. I replaced Flying with Floating, gave them Physical Protection and +5 HP. Maybe they need even more HP and some extra Movement. And Wall Crushing too.
The Nature Elemental was buffed with Bless and HC.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...this was weird.

I haven't hoarded skill points, and I have heroes with higher levels who did not experience this problem.
Using BING XI LAO's Ziggurat mod.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Yeah, haven't figured out that bug yet. I think they next levelup will be the same number, but positive, and then it goes back to normal.
Also saving the map in the editor under the ruleset probably gets rid of it.

 

[octavius]

Does anyone know if concealment works against the AI in AOW1? I've read on the GOG forum that it doesn't but the GOG forum has its fair share of false information (people mixing up mechanics from AoW1 and AoW2). Before reading this claim on the GOG forum, I always used units with concealment in a manner that assumes that concealment works and can't recall having been attacked by any AI player when doing so. So I was surprised when reading this claim.

I'm replaying the campaign and my lone concealed orc assassins haven't been attacked by any AI player now either. Just loaded up a save and tested it. With my assassin in concealment the AI player didn't attack him. Moved him out of concealment and was attacked. I'm too lazy to conduct more than one test today but does anyone know for certain?

I did a test myself, and it seems like Concealment does indeed work against the AI. I've always assumed that it doesn't work, but it may be that my memory is faulty after having played much more Shadow Magic than AoW1. SM was an incline in most regards, but there was also some decline, and Concealment not working may be one of them.

 

[BING XI LAO]

I think this map http://aow.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=1233 might be not just the prettiest I've made but the prettiest anyone's made. Though it is a desert with the occasional lava lake, and is short on verdant gardens.
Often when I TURN in the ongoing PBEM I take a screenshot.

Spoiler

Also, a new map is in the works by me:

Spoiler

In which the surface is a frozen wasteland devoid of any life, not even vegetation. Even the dungeons there will be filled only with machines, spirits and the undead. Only the lava caves have light and warmth. Moreover, the lava caves being the only source of light, are actually placed on the top map level where units have full vision range without needing Night Vision. And the surface I placed on the bottom map level - it is dark, and nits without Night Vision will have reduced vision there.

There's also a map made by someone else which will soon be approved at AoWHeaven, which will have timed indy attacks via 1-way teleporters, gradually shrinking the safe region of the map towards the center.... that's right. It's AoW: Fortnite Edition. Will say more when I have my hands on it.

 

[octavius]

I started a new game (same map - Coming of the Dread Lord - with different factions) using Ziggurat mod with unnerfed (by me) fliers and was surprised to see the AI attack a Gold Dragon with two Centaurs and win.

 

[octavius]

Yeah, haven't figured out that bug yet. I think they next levelup will be the same number, but positive, and then it goes back to normal.
Also saving the map in the editor under the ruleset probably gets rid of it.

Tried that and now the problem is even worse.

Playing the Elves with the original map the problems only affected a couple of heroes and it straightened itself out, but now playing the Frostlings with a resaved map, things only get worse.
This is one of the few heroes I've actually been able to level up earlier, and look at him now:

Spoiler

I want my money back!

 

[BING XI LAO]

Huh, for me it's a rare bug that resolves when it does happen... Which map is that?

 

[octavius]

Huh, for me it's a rare bug that resolves when it does happen... Which map is that?

Coming of the Dread Lord.
One of the Frostling Heroes (Jorgmun) also started with 0 HP, but not dead.

 

[octavius]

Tried the Sword&Sorcery mod some more. The Black Dragons are ridicilously overpowered. They already have Flying and breathing, do they really need 30 HP as well?

Bing, which files do I need to copy if I only want to install the Ziggurat changes to units, spells and lists, and not anything that deals with skills and leveling up?

 

[BING XI LAO]

In S&S I left the dragons at 240 manacost to summon, hence their strength. I guess in Singleplayer initial costs matter little however.

Aside from graphical and text mods, Ziggurat is split between the Release folder's files and the AoWEpack.dpl file.

The release folder contains among other things:
Unit stats and abilities
Recruitment lists
Spell mana/research/upkeep/sphere/tier
Dungeon defender lists (vanilla in Zigg's case)
Hero chassis base stats and abilities
Levelup availability and skillpoint cost of abilities (except multilevel abilities)
Assignation of unit graphics

You might be able to figure out which files in the folder contains which things, or maybe they're mostly all in Release.hss itself.

AoWEpack.dpl contains among other things:
Skillpoints per level (unchanged in Zigg)
Skillpoint cost of stats and multilevel abilities
base vision range and gold upkeep formula
cost of city upgrade and walls
cost of building a watchtower
installation time
ALL modifications to ATK/DAM/RANGE/RoF of spells and abilities
Scaling of the morale DEF/RES modifier and the leadership ATK/DEF modifier
XP per level requirement (scales to larger numbers at high levels)
Altar manacost/recharge time

I played a couple turns as dark elves on that map and didn't encounter the bug, and for Frostlings only this hero was bugged. It's because he is set to have +2 DEF and in Ziggurat that costs and extra 10 points. So he starts at -10, then when he levelled up it went to 0/0. I don't know how you got far more negative numbers, starting at -16, for the same hero, and then getting WORSE at levelup, weird.. Try reinstalling the mod (it has been updated a fair amount)? Is steam messing it up by verifying files?

Spoiler