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Age of Wonders 4

Blutwurstritter

Learned
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Germany
Unlike other studios(Piranha Bytes, Team17, Firefly Studios), Triumph did note remake the same game over and over with declining quality. There hasn't been a complete failure in the series so far. The games are different enough, offering new content and gameplay. I thought Planetfall would be crap when I saw the first trailers, but its not a bad game on its own. I'm willing to give Triumph some benefit of doubt with AoW4 for now.

But there is one thing that I don't like and I'm sure its going to be the same as it was with AoW3 and Planetfall, and that is the slow release of content in the form of DLC's, that should have come directly with the game. I'm pretty sure it will take some time until the game is complete and in a good state.
 
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
I was kind of hype about this game, never played aow3/planetfall because the gameplay mechanics weren't good enough to make up for utterly shitbad artstyle.
I't not like I'm hoping to convince you, but AoW3 is very much worth playing and stomaching the, admittedly very bad, artstyle. It has a lot of objective decline from previous entries, but also lots of incline. The combat is great, all the combos of races/units/skills/spells/perks/yada yada rival any crpg out there and a lot of the changes to strategic layer ain't bad, either. If you're basing your impressions on the vanilla game then it is important to underline that the game has improved immensely with the dlc.
Nah mate I could tell AoW3 is quite good. Just hated the art.
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
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Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,158
Here's hoping this one has an actual campaign. Never got Planetfall because it didn't have one, despite being interested in it. Do we know yet if 4 has a proper campaign?
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
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Jul 16, 2009
Messages
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Patches improved AoW3 into playable state. Planetfall remained meh even year after release.
 

Reality

Learned
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Dec 6, 2019
Messages
350
The Developer update ended with "Next Diary will feature more details about Lore and Story Realms"

So we should know on Februrary 2nd if they keep to Paradox Scheduling.

Forums and Discord are 50/50 betting on Hand Made Maps vs Planetfall Empire Mode as Main Campaign.
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,330
I remember the devs saying they were holding back on making age of wonders 4 because fantasy grand stratagey was going to be crouded with the new spellforce game and the masters of magic remake being in the works and coming out.

But that video said they had this in development since age of wonders planetfall?

I guess they changed their mind?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/718850/discussions/0/3391798007029399054/#c3391798007032854311

Originally posted by Anvos:
Age of Wonders IV would make sense. given Warhammer 3 is already out and thus the AAA competitor for Age of Wonder's niche would be less likely to kill the sales.
Warhammer 3 is indeed out but it is getting updates and DLC's. In general the Fantasy 4x space is busy currently with other titles such as the Masters of Magic Remake, Spellforce: Conquest of Eo and Songs of Conquest either coming out or being in early access.
 

Edgetard

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They could still have different races and racial traits, by just using the word "species" instead, and still stay PC.
nah still doesnt work because both our side and the shitlib side thinks that orcs are the blacks of d&d/pathfinder/lotr etc
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,269
In AoW3 there was next to 0 difference between picking, for example, human dreadnought or elf dreadnought or goblin dreadnought
Well, no, because AoW3 actually has multiple mechanics and systems that go beyond race and class choice whereas in PF that's all there is, because all the AoW3 incline is either completely gutted or just plain gone. Both games have exactly the same approach of certain class units being different depending on the race (which is cool). Like I said, the main difference is that AoW3 puts a very strong focus on the class, while in PF it's the race.

I have voiced my opinion on the mod system a lot of times (tldr: nice idea, mediocre execution, the reality of how the game plays turns it into largely meaningless theorycrafting), but the main issue I have is that despite there just being choice of race and class, there's very little interesting combos in PF. The class is often literally obsolete and something like hereditor, for example, was just "spam only hereditor units... or don't", cause it synced with literally nothing before the final dlc race arrived. There are multiples examples of classes giving almost fuck all to certain races and for the rest it's usually just "yeah, having some units/mods that share dmg channel might be good". Mindblowing. I know there are some exceptions to this, like my favorite syndicate+promethean, but they're far and few between.
AoW3 has race + class + magic school (unless I'm forgetting something), while PF has race + tech + neutral faction alliance. The choices you make in PF make a bigger impact on how your unit roster looks like and behaves than AoW3.

In AoW3:
-The only way race choice impacts class choice is racial modifiers of units (orcs deal slightly more melee damage, goblins have slightly less HP but are slightly cheaper) and racial governance bonuses, which are not that interesting (I looked it up - most bonuses up to tier 3 usually amount to something like your specific tier 1 or 2 units gaining an extra point of damage or some bonus HP. The only ones that can truly synergize with your class units appear late in the game and affect all units of X type)
-The only way class choice impacts race choice is through global upgrades, like dreadnought giving all cavalry pistols or priest giving healing to all caster units, of which there are very few. Necromancer is an exception to this, but necromancer kinda just plays its own game. It affects the chosen race significantly, but it affects all races in pretty much the same way.
-Magic school choice doesn't really affect your race/class units, but can give you a few new units in the form of summons. Some schools have upgrades that can give some permanent bonuses, but mostly it's just spells that can give you an advantage in combat.

In PF:
-Race choice can affect your secret tech units by allowing you to put your race specific upgrades on those units
-Reverse also applies
-Upgrades can change how the units work in significant ways. For example, voidtech has a flying support unit that can heal and reposition units. It has an energy weapon attack. I remember playing 1 game as energy weapon-focused assembly and I gave this thing an upgrade that energy weapon attacks chain to additional targets and another upgrade that made them also stun enemies. I also allied with the imperials neutral faction, which gives that shield upgrade, which gives a unit more armor the more it's attacked during a turn, so I also put it on that thing. This turned a primarily support unit into a strong damage dealer that was also pretty annoying to kill. I also gave the same upgrades to the energy weapon units assembly has by default, so my army consisted mostly of those + flying voidtech supports. Another example: you mentioned how hereditor (or whatever the fuck those things were called, let's just call them space necromancers) tech doesn't really work with any of the factions, but I remember playing a game with my friend where I went lizardman necro and gave my units a bunch of necro defensive upgrades that charged when the units were attacked and then I could use charges to buff their defensive stats, which made my army very hard to kill and it worked well with the lizardmen because a lot of their units are low range.

Note that neither AoW3 nor PF has something like unique race+class/tech buildings, units or upgrades which is something I truly want.

Now don't get me wrong, I still think AoW3 is overall a better game than PF, but I found it more fun to fuck around with the factions' unit rosters in PF due to stuff like the examples I described.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
In AoW3, it's race + class + specialization (of which you can choose 3 and it's not only magic school) + racial governance (the goblin one even gives you a unit). In PF, it's race + tech, NPC factions exist in AoW3 too. Upgrades do change how the units work, but most of the time it's for its own sake because the best choices are +% damage. The problem with techs in PF is that they largely function independently of the race, what you described with the lizards can be done with pretty much every other race when picking heritor. There are exceptions and there are unique combinations that only work with one race, but AoW3 has more such combos.

What AoW4 will do is give us little slices of classes that we can freely combine, but that will only lead to mush imo and no-one will have a set identity. I'm sure meta choices will become apparent sooner rather than later, though.
 
Last edited:

Suicidal

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Messages
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The problem with techs in PF is that they largely function independently of the race, what you described with the lizards can be done with pretty much every other race when picking heritor. There are exceptions and there are unique combinations that only work with one race, but AoW3 has more such combos.
Well it wouldn't make as much sense to do that, for example, with the humans, since all of their units are ranged and most can shoot pretty far. If I went that tech when playing as humans, I'd probably invest more in damage upgrades. The thing with PF techs is that your race + tech gives you a pretty big research tree and you're unlikely to have time to research everything in an average game, so you can pick which parts of the tech to invest in (to an extent - you still need to research the required upgrades to get to the ones you want). Like in my assembly + voidtech example, the ONLY things from voidtech that I used where the flying support units and an upgrade that lets mechanical units teleport. Voidtech isn't even an energy damage-focused tech, it's mainly physical damage but in that game I wanted to make it work this way and I had fun doing it. It's probably not effective and wouldn't work in a "real" game, but against bots, everything goes.
 

Gaznak

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Whereas I got acquainted with the series in AoW2 -> AoW2SM -> AoW -> AoW3 order, and vanilla AoW2 impressed me much then (circa 2002-2003 I think), now I tend to think of AoW as of the best part of the series.

AoW3 is the worst, of course. Seems the coming fourth part shall take this title from the third (though I have no plan to play AoW4 at all regardless of the final result).
 

Edgetard

Educated
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Jan 27, 2023
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AoW3 is definitely not the worst, lol. The worst is 2.
Nah 2s magic was way better and the races all felt different.
3 had better heroes/leaders sure but thats it; no more elves hidden by magic trees fighting orcs who all had lifesteal, now every race feels the same with only mods helping to fix the issue a little.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
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Bjørgvin
There's quite a bit of difference between 2 and SM. 2 shipped with no boat AI whatsoever, while SM fixed that. So some user made maps were plain broken when the AI stuck on a small island would never board that ship right next to them.
This is what pisses me off most about the AoW games; that the AI is not programmed to do certain things. I can forgive the weak AI, since a good AI is hard to program, but this is just laziness. A lesser game I would have ditched the moment I noticed this.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,631
It's not a matter of simple >< or =, cause these games are ultimately p different (particularly 1 vs the rest). 3 fixes some of the problems of previous games (too much randomness in combat, way too op heroes) and brings a lot of new, cool ideas, but also takes some stuff away (less races) and is declined in certain aspects (massively toned down strategic magic, "updated for modern audiences" logistics). Plus has horrible fucking artstyle while all the previous games are beautiful.

I think all games in the series are great and very much worth playing. I also feel 3 would have a genuine chance at becoming my favorite one, if not for the incredibly dumb decision to decrease stack size to 6 units (and then sticking to it in PF and AoW4).
 

Raghar

Arcane
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Jul 16, 2009
Messages
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AoW3 is definitely not the worst, lol. The worst is 2.
Actually I liked how AoW2 allowed to do ALL magic schools one after another. It allowed bit more variability than using one simple optimal tactic and roll over everything.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,314
Pathfinder: Wrath
Some people are speculating that there's no way we are getting a proper campaign because "only around 5% of people play campaigns".
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,631
Which is super important, considering how this game will have circa 300 concurrent players on steam. Also, don't make shit campaigns and people will play them, lol.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,314
Pathfinder: Wrath
Speaking of concurrent players, AoW3 (a 10 year old game) currently sits at 1000, while PF is at 650 ;d
 

vota DC

Augur
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
2,289
AoW3 is definitely not the worst, lol. The worst is 2.
Actually I liked how AoW2 allowed to do ALL magic schools one after another. It allowed bit more variability than using one simple optimal tactic and roll over everything.
In aow1 you could specialize in death magic and then side with highmen in the campaign...also most of lizard units hate you because their strongest units are labeled as creatures so they don't care if lizardmen are allied with highmen...same for trolls and karagh. Trolls deserted in lizardmen campaign already because are creatures with pure evil alignment.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,593
Is that more of a thing for Sorcerers and whoever else could summon t4's? Even if that works, you're still buying gold troops from cities on top of that, so lower tier units are not made redundant regardless.
In theory no, but in practice yes. The more and the faster you churn out T4s the better.

I can't help but feel this has to depend on who you play with. My experience playing with people I knew was that rushing was EXTREMELY effective.
 

Raghar

Arcane
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Messages
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AoW3 maps needed some kind of rushing, if you spend your time by building your empire enemies would overrun you.
 

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