Any good metroidvania recommendations?

[WhiteShark]

- Didn't like boss battles right from the start (too shmupy). They require either close to perfect dodging skills, or spamming special attack. You get stunned way too often too. Generally I've noticed that trying to hit bosses with your sword is a bad idea, much better / easier is to keep your distance, manage your MP effectively (by draining enemy projectiles) and use only special attacks (MP-dependant)
- Just before the final battle there's a forced "defeat all previous bosses again" part, shortly followed by vertical area full of disappearing platforms (you have to start from the bottom if you screw up on the way). At this point I just went: "Fuck you, retarded autistic devs" and ragequit. There's difference between challenge and being intellectually challenged.
[...]
Went back to the game, finished and deleted.

I think these two "cons" and the surprise twist ending have sold me on this game more than anything else I've read about it.

 

[Grauken]

Nope, it's just as bad as spekkio said, one of the biggest metroidvania disappointments in recent times

 

[Sykar]

If you are REALLY desperate you could try Metroid Other Derp.

 

[VonMiskov]

No one here played KUNAI?



I found it pretty cool with nice art style. A little on the easy side of things, except the last boss. The last boss was rape incarnate.

 

[deama]

Any impressions on Lost Ruins?

 

[spekkio]

Tried Ender Lilies for about an hour, wasn't impressed. I can fully agree with what Gentle Player wrote on last page - for a game so focused on combat, it's p. banal boring shit. What I love about 'Vanias is exploration and the "what interesting combo of platforming / enemies will I encounter in next room?". Not much of this here. Just go right, kill some enemies, jump to higher platforms, do the same. The idea of using various spirits is nice, and more important than regular "familiars" in 'Vanias, but whatev.

Aborted.

 

[spekkio]

Any impressions on Lost Ruins?

Trying now. So far I'm p. impressed. "2D Dark Souls with lolis", and it's not a joke actually. Gameplay-wise it's much more Dark Soulsy than Blasphemous. But it can be trial&error heavy, since not everything that hurts you is easily recognizable from "decorations". Epic amounts of gore too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy_MKDNOX2s&t=207s

 

[Jack Of Owls]

lolis creep me out. fuck that shit.

 

[Grauken]

 

[deama]

Just tried Vigil: The longest night and it's very much a copy of dark souls, even the interface looks very similar.
Anyway though, the game seemed alright, but after a few hours of gameplay I'm going to be uninstalling it.
The game has a problem of loving to waste your time. You know how when you die in dark souls you simply lose your souls but your general progress is kept? Oh and you can go and collect your souls? Well you don't have it here, pretty much when you die you have to reload from last save, no soul collecting, and you lose any progress (including story) as well.
The game does have a feature where you can use a special item to save anywhere, but unlike in kingdom come deliverance, it doesn't work for this game, simply because it's just so easy to die.

 

[Ivan]

GamepassUpdate: Grime

Unfortunately dropped this after an honest day of play. Exploration is easily its biggest strength, featuring some neat shortcuts, but it has some janky platforming that suffers from insta-climb platforms, a mechanic where you can move very-select platforms that adds even more jank b/c sometimes the platforms clip through you. Combat is serviceable, using a Soulslike stamina meter. Not a fan of the art style, most of the game looks very samey, cavernous. Backtracking suffers from very limited warping options.

 

[Grauken]

What I heard from its slightly shorter than the first, bosses are a joke again and you can actually completely ignore them. Overall the first is slightly better but this is solid with some new ideas but not a major improvement. I gonna check it out in a year or so when its out of early access aka EGS

 

[spekkio]

So, I've tried a couple of 'Vanias recently (Ender Lillies, Lost Ruins, Ori 1), only to uninstall them after couple hours. But since I was really in the mood for love some jumpan and exploran, I've decided to approach the only "Big One" in the genre, that I've skipped until now due to various reasons (bad performance on my previous rig, not enough time for HUGE games). Approach with caution I may add, 'cause thanks to my previous bad streak, I was like: "Damn, what if I just got old and can't enjoy such games anymore? What if I end up hating Hollow Knight too?".

After spending ~5 hours ingame, I can safely state: crisis averted!



I mean I was expecting quality combat and tight controls (yet I remember some people criticizing them - WTF?), but worldbuilding and writing are fantastic too. You just have to love all these guys and gals, thanks to great writing (and voice acting).

I don't remember reading enemy descriptions ever making me chuckle. But sheeet - The Hunter is an epitome of "one-track-minded":

Damn, all inhabitants of the Hallownest are just so cute!

Well, almost all of them.

Provisional verdict:

 

[lightbane]

You enjoy Hobo Knight but not the Ori game/s?

HK has tons of mods worth checking. Rain World is worth a look too.

 

[fork]

Ori is kinda shit.

 

[Lutte]

Ori is the game that makes it easy to spot gfx whores since it's the only thing it really has going for it.

 

[deama]

I tried playing hollow knight and ori, but never made it past 5 hours, can't really say why I don't like them.

 

[spekkio]

You enjoy Hobo Knight but not the Ori game/s?

Well, I don't like the subgenre of platformers, which can be called "bullet-hell platformers":





We can clearly see where the inspiration for Ori came from. Artistic presentation, autistic gameplay.

*Edit: on Ori vs HK comparison

- Writing in Ori is pretentious AF, HK is miles better (and "charming" is very hard to do),
- Combat in Ori is shit (mash X while avoiding enemy's projectiles) and jumping isn't great either. I have 0 problems with getting killed by spikes or water in HK, since I know it was my fault. Because controls are tight AF. Not so in Ori (where most of the time I was: "why was I killed exactly?").

 

[Ivan]

I found Ori to be in an odd place where neither the combat nor the platforming felt particularly excellent. I think most get drawn in by the cozy art and music. I found the combat tacked on, and the platforming OK. I didn't feel like the chase platforming sections worked b/c in a game like Rayman, perfecting your platforming is a big component of the gameplay. Whereas in Ori those moments are super few and far between, occurring in key moments where if you fail it awkwardly let's you restart. Like failing a QTE cutscene and doing it over again.

Anyway....glad to see more love for Hollow Knight. Easily my favorite game in the metroidvania pantheon. Particularly b/c it doesn't ecnourage me to fiddle with menus very much, love how it presents the map in-game.

 

[lightbane]

autistic gameplay.

You compare the final and optional super-hard level of Rayman with a single escape sequence of Ori 1. Granted, it's the hardest one to do, but it's a matter of getting used to it.

- Writing in Ori is pretentious AF, HK is miles better (and "charming" is very hard to do),

Hollow Knight's writing is not pretentious? Fake news. It's way more verbose and pretentious than Ori for sure.
Ori 1's story is short, perhaps even insufficient, but it works well enough for a game. Meanwhile, HK goes with the Dark Souls route of having tons of lore of dubious relevance or utility, as knowing "x" happens because of "y" changes nothing about the setting. For example: The mask-maker guy in HK, who seems to exist to make things needlessly complicated. Or how underused the bees are in the story, despite being the poster boys for "social bugs".

- Combat in Ori is shit (mash X while avoiding enemy's projectiles) and jumping isn't great either.

Agreed that combat is the weakest part of Ori 1, which was fixed in sequel. Jumping is MUCH better than HK. Once you get Bash, you can fly mid-air and do crazy acrobatics compared to the slow-as-fuck Knight from HK.

Not so in Ori (where most of the time I was: "why was I killed exactly?").

That has to be you then, as I think the Ori games are quite informative about what's going on at any time. The White Palace level of HK is way harder than Ori 1 and 2 by the way, being a combination of Super Meat Boy and Rayman's precise timing jumps, done with a character that doesn't jump or move too well.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Metroidvanias > Non-linear exploration 2D platformers without tired metroidvania tropes

 

[spekkio]

You compare the final and optional super-hard level of Rayman with a single escape sequence of Ori 1. Granted, it's the hardest one to do, but it's a matter of getting used to it.

I've just googled "Rayman hard sequence" or sth, same for Ori. My point was not "that specific part is nearly impossible" but more that I don't like gameplay which consists of moving right / up and pressing buttons at "perfect" time to proceed. And if you miss one button press, you have to start over. And I remember both newshit Raymen having such sections in abudance.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings by calling this type of gameplay autistic. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

the rest

I'm only couple hours into HK, so I can't comment on this. But if the game turns into shit during later parts, I will most certainly rage ITT.

But some things you wrote, like for example:

Jumping is MUCH better than HK. Once you get Bash, you can fly mid-air and do crazy acrobatics compared to the slow-as-fuck Knight from HK.

Make me wonder if our definitions of some things - like "good controls" in this case - are convergent.

 

[lightbane]

I don't like gameplay which consists of moving right / up and pressing buttons at "perfect" time to proceed. And if you miss one button press, you have to start over.

So, basically EVERY platformer game ever since Mario? The levels with auto-scrolling were like that, if only less demanding in some sections.

And I remember both newshit Raymen having such sections in abudance.

To be fair, Rayman 1 was hard as nails, it was Rayman 2 and 3 that eased up the difficulty. New-gen Raymen restore the legendary difficulty, and only in some specific levels. You also have infinite lives to boot.
If you're not good at platforming games, that's fine.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings by calling this type of gameplay autistic. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Agreed we have different tastes, but Rayman and Ori are not that hard compared to truly crazy shit like Super Meat Boy. incidentally, HK has some sections inspired by that, so watch out.

Make me wonder if our definitions of some things - like "good controls" in this case - are convergent.

I'm not sure what do you mean here. I said that Ori controls and jumps much better than the character in HK, which is true. The two game have different movement styles, but Ori is better designed for platforming challenges than the Knight in HK.

 

[Riskbreaker]

I thought Ori's controls really smooth. Exceptionally so, once you unlock all the movement-related abilities - the sheer act of traversing an area speedily, never once stopping, felt satisfying by itself. I think dash ability was added later in the Definitive Edition, was it not? I could imagine that game wouldn't be as fluid without it.

As for those escape sequences, yeah they are quite the difficulty spike and can be too long/annoying. Worst thing was. I think it was the first one, where you are dependent on enemy missiles to propel yourselves meaning you had to rely on this not wholly reliable external element rather than only your skill/memorization. I don't recall if that was as prominent in later escape sequences but the first one is the one I remember the most in that it annoyed me the most.
But they all make what, not even 1% of the game? And nothing else in it is comparably demanding.

 

[lightbane]

After the first escape sequence, future ones are easier. If you explore everything enough to get Triple Jump by the time Mount Horu arrives, you'll have supreme mobility in Ori. 1.. Which is necessary because in said level nearly everything is spikes, instant-kill traps, lava, lava spikes, enemies nearly immune to everything except their own projectiles, and enemy projectiles shoot by others. It sounds and looks crazy, but it is doable. The second game is way easier (up to the point of having Ori being WAAY tougher and "tolerant" to spikes, so to speak), including the escape sequences, except for the temple one which some complain is hard... And the final level, which keeps the tradition of being uber-demanding. But, by then you ought to have good enough abilities to surpass it.

Hard mode for both games is not recommended for beginners.