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Anyone else get the feeling skyrim was better?

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
Those guards have a powerlevel of 16 compared to Geralt, because they are war veterans and were trained to fight and kill humans. Geralt is a Witcher, someone who is professionally trained to fight monsters so ofcourse he has better cards against a griffin. He can track them down, he knows their weaknesses and their behaviour. Rock paper scissors, easy as that. So who said levels are an absolute value? They are an abstract number to determine the likelyhood of an outcome of a fight between you the player and your enemies.

Also he didnt defeat a dragon single handedly. He managed to survive the fight until the dragon took off with him and then he landed a fucking ultra lucky punch. Its like with luke skywalker versus death star. Does that fact that he landed the ultimate lucky strike also tell us that a single x-wing fighter has more firepower than a death star? No? Following your logic, it should have.

You're trying too hard to justify this dumb system, dude. Game's not perfect, this is one of the reasons, deal with it instead of trying to make fool out of yourself.
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
1,972
No to mention you can lure, for example wolves, toward Milfgardian patrols, and guess what - while you had to slash them a few times with your uber witcher sword, they one-shoot them ;). On the other hand Baron soldiers have problems with fast hitting drowners.
It's good to try to rationalize those discrepancies any way you like, but game has some flaws. Like any.
OT - Skyrim bored me after initial wow ENB factor wore off, it was like an blown egg. W3 has more substance, despite its various and numerous (small and big) shortcomings. GOTY 8/10
 

cvv

Arcane
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Devs really shouldn't have compared this game to Skyrim in any way. No "W3 is bazillion times larger than Skyrim" or shit like that. Because then retards started expecting it to be the Elder Scrolls VI: The Witcher. Which is nonsense.

In fact, it's much closer to something like AC Black Flag. Only on steroids. And much, much larger. And done well. And actually atmospheric. With interesting characters.

CDPR's goal was to marry the sandbox design with a cinematic third person action game and they've succeeded gloriously - in that I can't imagine it can be done any better. Whether or not it's even a good thing to marry both concepts, that's a different question.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
lol this thread. as much as i shit on this game Novigrad is better than all cities in Skyrim combined and Skellige part in TW3 is actually Skyrim done right. The difference in quality between Skelige and Skyrim is as big as between Cameron`s Aliens and Anderson`s Alien vs Predator. They both have aliens(viking shit) but one is utter shit and one is fun blockbuster.:M
 

abnaxus

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Joined
Dec 31, 2010
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10,856
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Fiernes
Skellige is potato Assassin's Creed Black Flag, only more boring with the bajillion question marks scattered around the ocean.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,155
while above points are totally valid, focusing on level numbers is a red herring. Those levels are like "minutes and seconds" arbitrary divisions of an intangible progression. In witcher1 its more like Geralt is "level 1" as in "you the player are first encountering him at x ability level" or "youre ability to control this avatar is level 1" not that he is a noob to monsters and combat. in Witcher 3 he's not going back to level 1, or even losing his experience and abilities, its just a starting point based on the context of the game, just like Chapter 1 in a sequel doesnt mean the story is starting over again.
or maybe monsters have been gaining experience through blackmagickz being pumped through demondragon rifts and theyve all been leveling up as well in between games. those drowners went from looking like brian froud goblins into full fledged Cthuhlu. Geralt better save the world stone quicklike.
That's all nice except for the part where the "arbitrary divisions of intangible progressions" starts reducing the damage you deal to enemies to the point where you can barely scratch them.

Also, he did lose all of his experience and abilities, including most recipes and knowledge of monsters, again.
Not only you can't deflect arrows by default, you have to waste a fucking skill slot for it now. At least in Witcher 1 you could've gotten that ability after gaining one level.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,398
Skyrim vs Witcha? Simple, Skyrim wins with both hands tied on the back and blind folded on the character system that alow for far more shit than that thing Witcha 3 has but on story, world building, characters, level design and art the Witcha wins. Both games need modding to be actually good but with CDPR releasing their editor soon, I have no doubt someone will fix the shitty gameplay like they did with Requiem on Skyrim.
 

deranged

Cipher
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
513
Location
Governed by clowns
Those guards have a powerlevel of 16 compared to Geralt, because they are war veterans and were trained to fight and kill humans. Geralt is a Witcher, someone who is professionally trained to fight monsters so ofcourse he has better cards against a griffin. He can track them down, he knows their weaknesses and their behaviour. Rock paper scissors, easy as that. So who said levels are an absolute value? They are an abstract number to determine the likelyhood of an outcome of a fight between you the player and your enemies.

Also he didnt defeat a dragon single handedly. He managed to survive the fight until the dragon took off with him and then he landed a fucking ultra lucky punch. Its like with luke skywalker versus death star. Does that fact that he landed the ultimate lucky strike also tell us that a single x-wing fighter has more firepower than a death star? No? Following your logic, it should have.

You're trying too hard to justify this dumb system, dude. Game's not perfect, this is one of the reasons, deal with it instead of trying to make fool out of yourself.

What's dumb about this system ? The fact that you are not breezing through enemies because you are an uber witcher ? The game's not perfect but this is not one of the reasons. Try to offer a valid argument without making a fool of yourself if you please.
 

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
What's dumb about this system ? The fact that you are not breezing through enemies because you are an uber witcher ? The game's not perfect but this is not one of the reasons. Try to offer a valid argument without making a fool of yourself if you please.
They could have done something like this Anon suggested?
RxTVB5W.png


Don't be a fucking fantard.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,851
No level or character system is perfect, they all have their logical flaws inherited. Lets look at Fallout for example. You level up and suddently you are able to put skillpoints in for example science or doctor despite the fact that you never used a computer or performed surgery. Your skills just appear out of thin air...

Or the fact that the powerlevel of the assassins in baldurs gate always rise from very low to very high with the ongoing plot development, as if the antagonist always sends his weak lackeys first.

Or that merchants in your starting area always sell equipment absolutely inferior to equipment you find later in the game. Why should a sword made in town A be so much worse than a regular sword made in town B?

Almost any game breaks logic at some point. Skyrim is by far the worst example with its levelscaling, because its unrealistic, unintuitive and the worst: not fun.
 

deranged

Cipher
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
513
Location
Governed by clowns
What's dumb about this system ? The fact that you are not breezing through enemies because you are an uber witcher ? The game's not perfect but this is not one of the reasons. Try to offer a valid argument without making a fool of yourself if you please.
They could have done something like this Anon suggested?
RxTVB5W.png

That's actual criticism but it isn't yours. Your criticism so far consisted of:

-Immersion breaking due to number of hits:
One thug require you to whack him 3 times to die, one the other quest the same type of thug require you to whack him 50 times to die, totally not immersion breaking.

-Leveled loot Oblivion style (?? !! )
I'm pretty sure creatures in Skyrim only level up with you to a point. Also TW3 has leveled loot Oblivion style.

But you went on and called Doktor Best a fool for offering a well constructed opinion on why HE liked the system.

Don't be a fucking fantard.
Don't be a fucktard.
 

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
That's actual criticism but it isn't yours. Your criticism so far consisted of:

-Immersion breaking due to number of hits:


-Leveled loot Oblivion style (?? !! )


But you went on and called Doktor Best a fool for offering a well constructed opinion on why HE liked the system.

Don't be a fucktard.

I posted that Anon's criticism because it said exactly every I wanted to say and more? And I did say that removing the level system while keeping the gears and skills points as progression would solve the problem, which is overall in the same view as this Anon, the level system is fake difficulty and serves nothing more than content gate, and should I even say more than what I've already posted seeing as every other point had already been said?

Also, nice job taking my other criticisms out of context.
 
Last edited:

deranged

Cipher
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
513
Location
Governed by clowns
? And I did say that removing the level system while keeping the gears and skills points as progression would solve the problem

I can dig that, but you don't give enough info. What about Vitality will it increase only through abilities, because at some point you will fight HP - bloated monsters, or are you suggesting simply better/more aggressive AI at later stages ? What about the severely crippled (compared to TW1) alchemy system. What about the redundant ability trees (crossbow anyone ?), should be these redesigned ?

I have no issue with your opinion, everything is pretty much subjective.
 

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
I can dig that, but you don't give enough info. What about Vitality will it increase only through abilities, because at some point you will fight HP - bloated monsters, or are you suggesting simply better/more aggressive AI at later stages ? What about the severely crippled (compared to TW1) alchemy system. What about the redundant ability trees (crossbow anyone ?), should be these redesigned ?

I have no issue with your opinion, everything is pretty much subjective.

I thought it's obvious if they're to remove the levels system they'd have to completely rebalance everything(gears, skills, monster). For vitality it should be increased through gears and skills, BUT, it has to be balanced and tailored to a certain style of play. As for monsters AI, I think they should stay the same in the open world as not to break immersion, but in quests in later stage should be replaced with stronger monsters (no not the same monsters), that are more aggressive, harder to defend against and have more variety in attacks. That anon's criticism just said most of what I wanted to say really.

I think the original Ninja Gaiden on Xbox is a good example of how to balance the difficulty.
 
Last edited:

TheHeroOfTime

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
2,899
Location
S-pain
Ahh... "Artificial difficulty" critic. Looks like natural difficulty exist in games. Lol.

Ffs it can be better made or not but difficulty is difficulty and always is artificial. Also, bloated enemies shouldnt be a problem to the player if Geralt have his level according with the enemies level. Just like in other Action RPG/RPGs
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,489
No level or character system is perfect, they all have their logical flaws inherited. Lets look at Fallout for example. You level up and suddently you are able to put skillpoints in for example science or doctor despite the fact that you never used a computer or performed surgery. Your skills just appear out of thin air...

Or the fact that the powerlevel of the assassins in baldurs gate always rise from very low to very high with the ongoing plot development, as if the antagonist always sends his weak lackeys first.

Or that merchants in your starting area always sell equipment absolutely inferior to equipment you find later in the game. Why should a sword made in town A be so much worse than a regular sword made in town B?

Almost any game breaks logic at some point. Skyrim is by far the worst example with its levelscaling, because its unrealistic, unintuitive and the worst: not fun.
What you just said is completely irrelevant to the post quoted. You're blabbing about realism, the image talked about problems with combat and enemies and fun, NOT about realism. Please learnto read bro.
 

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
Ahh... "Artificial difficulty" critic. Looks like natural difficulty exist in games. Lol.

Ffs it can be better made or not but difficulty is difficulty and always is artificial. Also, bloated enemies shouldnt be a problem to the player if Geralt have his level according with the enemies level. Just like in other Action RPG/RPGs

Yeah, except bloated enemy does not make for interesting and satisfying experience. I dealt with bloated enemies simply by waiting for the enemy to start their attack animation, dodge, get a hit in, rinse and repeat, the only thing it takes is time, not skill. And it's not fun nor immersive.
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
Ahh... "Artificial difficulty" critic. Looks like natural difficulty exist in games. Lol.

Ffs it can be better made or not but difficulty is difficulty and always is artificial. Also, bloated enemies shouldnt be a problem to the player if Geralt have his level according with the enemies level. Just like in other Action RPG/RPGs

Yeah, except bloated enemy does not make for interesting and satisfying experience. I dealt with bloated enemies simply by waiting for the enemy to start their attack animation, dodge, get a hit in, rinse and repeat, the only thing it takes is time, not skill. And it's not fun nor immersive.

/\ This

Zep--
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,851
No level or character system is perfect, they all have their logical flaws inherited. Lets look at Fallout for example. You level up and suddently you are able to put skillpoints in for example science or doctor despite the fact that you never used a computer or performed surgery. Your skills just appear out of thin air...

Or the fact that the powerlevel of the assassins in baldurs gate always rise from very low to very high with the ongoing plot development, as if the antagonist always sends his weak lackeys first.

Or that merchants in your starting area always sell equipment absolutely inferior to equipment you find later in the game. Why should a sword made in town A be so much worse than a regular sword made in town B?

Almost any game breaks logic at some point. Skyrim is by far the worst example with its levelscaling, because its unrealistic, unintuitive and the worst: not fun.
What you just said is completely irrelevant to the post quoted. You're blabbing about realism, the image talked about problems with combat and enemies and fun, NOT about realism. Please learnto read bro.

Sorry but did ou hit your head somehow? I didnt quote anyone with my post. The discussion here goes on for pages and also included complaints about lacking realism. Literally the next post above that reddit quote was exactly about that topic.
 

TheHeroOfTime

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
2,899
Location
S-pain
Ahh... "Artificial difficulty" critic. Looks like natural difficulty exist in games. Lol.

Ffs it can be better made or not but difficulty is difficulty and always is artificial. Also, bloated enemies shouldnt be a problem to the player if Geralt have his level according with the enemies level. Just like in other Action RPG/RPGs

Yeah, except bloated enemy does not make for interesting and satisfying experience. I dealt with bloated enemies simply by waiting for the enemy to start their attack animation, dodge, get a hit in, rinse and repeat, the only thing it takes is time, not skill. And it's not fun nor immersive.

The objetive of bloated enemies is equilibrate the game. While the player completes the game Geralt gets more stronger thanks to the new perks and gear. If you want normal enemies to still being some dangerous you cant leave them like in the begining of the game, because level 20 Geralt will destroy them easily with a blow.

If you want to make the game more challenging and interesting you put enemies with special movements and patrols, and that is what the game does, like the stronger swordman witch hunter that Geralt SPOILER kills when he gets in a trap with Triss SPOILER END. Also, high level enemies restrict the progression of the player and estimulate the player to improve Geralt doing secondary quests and hunting monsters.

There's no doubt that the game have it flaws, (As all games in the existence) But this is not one of them.
 

GrapeJam

Novice
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
49
The objetive of bloated enemies is equilibrate the game. While the player completes the game Geralt gets more stronger thanks to the new perks and gear. If you want normal enemies to still being some dangerous you cant leave them like in the begining of the game, because level 20 Geralt will destroy them easily with a blow.

And it all comes down to stats balancing. Properly balanced progression, an original enemy at the beginning of the game can still be dangerous.

If you want to make the game more challenging and interesting you put enemies with special movements and patrols, and that is what the game does, like the stronger swordman witch hunter that Geralt SPOILER kills when he gets in a trap with Triss SPOILER END.

Nobody's complaining about enemies with special moves, what's complained about is that you're content gated by enemies with bloated hp and damage. And FYI, the game's already like what you've described, it's just delayed it a bit further.

Also, high level enemies restrict the progression of the player and estimulate the player to improve Geralt doing secondary quests and hunting monsters.

Is that supposed to be a good thing?
 

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