Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting

[Butter]

Looking at the mediocrity that Avowed seems to be and concluding that lack of arrow physics and regenerating mana is the problem is truly the most gamer of gamer takes

The mana regeneration take is obviously facetious.

The overall takeaway from this game is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. Story is shit, world and NPCs don't respond to anything you do, UI and art are an eyesore, progression system is shit, companions are shit, but people like the exploration and combat (at least in the early game). The collective reaction to this game has been a sigh of indifference. It's not hilariously shit like Veilguard or Concord or Saint's Row reboot, it's just bland and forgettable. I pity the grifters and Youtubers trying to milk this.

 

[anvi]

Skyrim has no party which Ultima 3 had from 1983. Therefore it is bad. Worship me like ass mong!

 

[anvi]

Guys, you also can't craft runes onto your weapons in either game. Remember to smash that like and subscribe for more awesome content bros.

 

[jungl]

so is the consensus watch youtube vids for the pillars lore and skip?

 

[thesecret1]

The collective reaction to this game has been a sigh of indifference. It's not hilariously shit like Veilguard or Concord or Saint's Row reboot, it's just bland and forgettable. I pity the grifters and Youtubers trying to milk this.

No way, the successor to TOW and PoE is boring? Say it ain't so

 

[Jacob]

The moment I see fucking AssGoldberg in the RPG subforum I know the Decline(TM) has won. Might as well as shut down this forum.

 

[Trithne]

The thing is that it betrays a lack of care to make anything beyond just a theme park ride.

Games were trending towards simulation for most of their trajectory - If you simulate everything, then you can more organically support whatever idea the player comes up with. That's why things like arrows not disappearing into the sky matter - If someone has the idea to shoot an arrow into the sky as part of some cunning (or retarded) plan, the arrows should work like the player expects.

Additionally, what do we have all this compute power for if not to simulate things?

When you don't have this, or reactive guard behaviour, or even rudimentary physics on your physical objects, it's a sign that the game is trying to only be that; a game. An amusement park fun ride where you can't put your arms outside of the safety rail, and if you don't do as you're told it won't work. The only ways to interact with the world are the ones the writers planned out for you, because the lack of simulation means the world literally cannot support you doing anything else.

 

[anvi]

I like simulation more than anything but they aren't simulating good things. They could be simulating an actual economy, traders that travel around, supply & demand affecting goods prices and things. There are games that had that 20 before Skyrim and he doesn't mention any of that. Even some little one man indie games you can buy grain cheaply from a farm and take it to a city to sell for a profit.

In UO the enemies themselves were part of a simulated environment. Wolves ate other creatures which meant if the wolves spread you lacked certain materials. If you kill all the wolves the other animals will prosper etc. Again that was going on 20 years before Skyrim.

EQ had hundreds of realistic factions within the world and all game characters had a religion and allies/enemies. And everything you did could affect this balance and make you an enemy of entire cities or a hero and unlock new quests etc. That was 20 years before Skyrim.

How about the ground affecting your character? In EQ the ice surfaces made you slip. Same with a frog dungeon full of slime. And weight would really slow you down as would being injured. And that mattered when being chased. They could be simulatng ground types and movement, not wobbly cups.

How about all the different element types? In EQ there was poison, disease, magic, cold, fire, etc, all had separate resists and you could get gear that would boost any of these that you want. Where's all that shit in Skyrim? How about stats? Whatever happened to having Strength, Stamina, Dex, Agi, Wis, Int, Luck, etc? EQ has all that, and you can put points in on character creation too. I want simulations of numbers and systems not cosmetic shit.

There are endless things you could put in these kinds of games but there has to be a good reason for it otherwise it's just a gimmick. Also it's a dangerous thing to be complaining about games not having things that earlier games had. Again, KOTC2 is one of the best RPGs I've ever played and it has no ragdoll physics or water waves. Didn't need any of it.

 

[The Wall]

Awowed xisters! Give me your updated shilling scripts! How to defend the honor of Carrie Patel, Matt Hansen and Avowed now?

 

[Desiderius]

Nobody gives a shit about muh physics.

Physics are important for creating a world with believable interactions, something that even Ultima Underworld had 33 years ago.

But you should also check more than the video thumbnails as they point out more than just the physics, which if anything are among the more minor issues. The Oblivion video for example shows the difference between NPC behavior (i.e. when you attack friendly NPCs - something that doesn't even register in Avowed - or how guards come to help you against foes, etc), you being able to steal stuff in front of NPCs with an increasingly hostile reaction from them when they notice you and even them taking back their stuff from you, etc.

Oblivion has a lot of flaws but these flaws are largely Bethesda actively trying to improve their stuff, especially the simulation of their world and falling flat on their face in pretty much all of them. I don't want to judge on the whole game without playing it, but the videos give me the impression that instead of trying and falling flat on its face, Avowed just lied down on the floor with its face on the ground because why bother trying if you are going to end up falling anyway? Just skip the whole "try" part and kiss the ground.

Gothic never had this problem for example.

Maybe though Gothic has its own 3rd person weirdness with how the player model leans left and right in its entirety when you run and turn :-P.

These people aren’t real big on the merely real.

 

[The Wall]

P. S. Are some of you literally that retarded?

 

[anvi]

Does it have falling damage and is that affected by weight? Is there a breath limit when you go underwater? Is there a swimming skill? Again all things old games had. Do weapons jam? Do items degrade over time? Is there a compass? Illusions? Multiple types of invisibility?

 

[The Wall]

Does it have falling damage and is that affected by weight? Is there a breath limit when you go underwater? Is there a swimming skill? Again all things old games had. Do weapons jam? Do items degrade over time?

You're being retard for free. Not sure how that pays off. [CONTINUE]

 

[anvi]

I agree it looks like a crap game. But the arguments are bad.

 

[The Wall]

It sounds super basic and dumb. But it depends on what the game is.

Spoiler

He's being ironic.

I'm just arguing the point. Not every game needs immersive Bethesda stuff in it. If it is supposed to be like Skyrim then ok it does. But if it's supposed to be an exciting action game then nobody needs all that shit.

"Skyrim stuff" happened 14 years ago, on 30 year old game engine. With background of this moment we live through being modern robotics, AI models that write new Shakespear work and then narrate it with JFK voice, landing rockets, and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, how the FUCK and more importantnly WHY THE FUCK you seek to find excuses for turd called A V O W E D (even name is retarded) produced by merry band of lesbian retards at Obsidian?

 

[JarlFrank]

so is the consensus watch youtube vids for the pillars lore and skip?

Why the fuck would you want to see Pillars lore? Might as well watch paint dry, it's more interesting.

 

[Bad Sector]

A highly interactive world means something like Legend of Grimrock which has you moving the environment around for a reason [..] Or if it was like an Adventure Game where you find an object and use it with another object and that lets you get further in the game. But none of that happens with Skyrim, it is just wobbly table shit for no reason. [..] Fallout 4 did it much better because they buried skill magazines and rare bobbleheads and things in all the junk. Also being able to hack terminals or lockpick a safe is actually an interactive world. Again, not cups that wobble.

Certainly not all physics interactions are the same (Quake with rigid body physics wouldn't be any more interesting than Quake without rigid body physics - or more realistically, pretty much nobody really noticed that Doom 3 had physics objects on pretty much everything including even the coffee cups you'd find around the base), but the point is being able to have such interactions in the first place. Fallout New Vegas, like Fallout 4 you mentioned (though i've only played F4 once and i don't remember it much), also does a similar use of physics where you can find various objects hidden beneath clutter (and if anything, FNV's approach makes sense: you can often find stuff hidden at the bottom of a box, where i'd make sense for someone to hide things). But both of these are based on the same physics engine which was originally introduced in Oblivion (which did try to make use of its physics engine in various aspects of the gameplay, most notably its dungeons - the various videos on YouTube about NPCs repeatedly falling into traps might be funny but at the same time from a mechanics perspective it shows several gameplay systems, including physics, trying to interact with each other, something that other games - like Avowed, apparently - barely bother to script, let alone implement in a consistent systemic manner) and is what enabled the designers to implement such interactions.

Table clutter is just the easiest aspect and a telltale sign of minimum effort. If a game doesn't even bother with clutter the chances of bothering with anything more interesting related to physics are pretty much zero.

 

[The Wall]

There should be BARE MINIMUM of game sandbox simulation expected from AAA game with million$ in budget published by TRILLION $ worth company. Especially when such game is announced as "SKYRIM KILLER", when the same company 6 YEARS AGO made turd less shitty then this

You know who isn't to blame? Devs. Devs who FUCKING! MADE! THE! GAME! are NOT! to be blamed. Do you know WHY? Because I'm 3000IQ REDDITOR and I SAY SO

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The moment I see fucking AssGoldberg in the RPG subforum I know the Decline(TM) has won. Might as well as shut down this forum.

The guy lives in filth and literally never showers. Of course chuddies relate to him.

 

[The Wall]

The thing is that it betrays a lack of care to make anything beyond just a theme park ride.

Games were trending towards simulation for most of their trajectory - If you simulate everything, then you can more organically support whatever idea the player comes up with. That's why things like arrows not disappearing into the sky matter - If someone has the idea to shoot an arrow into the sky as part of some cunning (or retarded) plan, the arrows should work like the player expects.

Additionally, what do we have all this compute power for if not to simulate things?

When you don't have this, or reactive guard behaviour, or even rudimentary physics on your physical objects, it's a sign that the game is trying to only be that; a game. An amusement park fun ride where you can't put your arms outside of the safety rail, and if you don't do as you're told it won't work. The only ways to interact with the world are the ones the writers planned out for you, because the lack of simulation means the world literally cannot support you doing anything else.

^This

I was too lazy to write this, but yeah this. We have to explain algorithms of breathing and walking to dysfunctional retards. How many times they miss [Post Reply] button before hitting it finally. Shit must look like Morrowind combat in real life

 

[baba is you]

Compared to TOW, the responsiveness is low. What does Obsidian have left now? Story? Exploration? There are major developers and indie developers who are better at both. I think this game deserves indifference.

 

[Roguey]

Secret chat leaks featuring Josh Sawyer:

"If anyone was wondering whether rope kid worked on this game, I just hit a red barrel with a sword and it exploded. So not only did rope kid not work on it, it's plausible he didn't even know it was being made"

rope kid: i objected to this btw

As expected "studio design director" is another in-name-only title just like Avellone's "chief creative officer." Obsidian's real design director remains Feargus Urquhart.

It's not about physics but lack of any attention to detail.

Attention to detail can result in a worse game:

it was our responsibility to do more to make the game better, but the people making the decisions on game quality kept getting distracted by shiny objects.

Shiny objects being these small details that are ultimately inconsequential to overall game quality (in NV's case, looping reload animations).

Oblivion's game content sucks. Perhaps because they spent so much time on these small details and superficial crap like soil erosion that ultimately had to be cut????

Games were trending towards simulation for most of their trajectory

Not Black Isle/Obsidian games.

All the big imsim companies - Origin, Looking Glass, Ion Storm Austin - they went out of business. Irrational sold out. Arkane were the guys keeping the torch alive after Ion Storm's death in the mid-00s. Then there was another im sim apocalypse in the 10s when Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2, and Prey all bombed in a row. Fortunately a number of indies picked things up from there.

Awowed xisters! Give me your updated shilling scripts! How to defend the honor of Carrie Patel, Matt Hansen and Avowed now?

Didn't watch, but finally an appropriate comparison.

 

[normie]

There should be BARE MINIMUM of game sandbox simulation expected from AAA game with million$ in budget published by TRILLION $ worth company. Especially when such game is announced as "SKYRIM KILLER", when the same company 6 YEARS AGO made turd less shitty then this

You know who isn't to blame? Devs. Devs who FUCKING! MADE! THE! GAME! are NOT! to be blamed. Do you know WHY? Because I'm 3000IQ REDDITOR and I SAY SO

you don't get it, shit games are part of Microsoft's market strategy with their Game Pass somehow and that makes it ok
even if nobody played it, it'd still be a great success that you're wrong to criticise, ok? it just is
Obsidian considers it a success, Pentiment was a success, everything is a success, because it's part of the market strategy
stop trying to enjoy games, enjoy the market strategy

 

[The Wall]

The moment I see fucking AssGoldberg in the RPG subforum I know the Decline(TM) has won. Might as well as shut down this forum.

The guy lives in filth and literally never showers. Of course chuddies relate to him.

And yet this King of Retards fucked more bitchez, good looking even bitchez, and has more money then your 3000IQ GENIOUS talking ass will in your whole stinky, pathetic life. Crushed by King Retard. How does it feel? You still feel smart? Tell me more how Avowed is for smart people...

 

[JarlFrank]

It sounds super basic and dumb. But it depends on what the game is.

Spoiler

He's being ironic.

I'm just arguing the point. Not every game needs immersive Bethesda stuff in it. If it is supposed to be like Skyrim then ok it does. But if it's supposed to be an exciting action game then nobody needs all that shit.

"Skyrim stuff" happened 14 years ago, on 30 year old game engine. With background of this moment we live through being modern robotics, AI models that write new Shakespear work and then narrate it with JFK voice, landing rockets, and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, how the FUCK and more importantnly WHY THE FUCK you seek to find excuses for turd called A V O W E D (even name is retarded) produced by merry band of lesbian retards at Obsidian?

The biggest problem is that Avowed has exceedingly low reactivity even when compared to other contemporary games of its kind (which all have lower environment physics than Skyrim, but let's not compare Skyrim to other games - we are comparing Avowed here, and everything else is better than it!)

When I argued about the physics with Roguey, he mentioned other games that don't have clutter physics like ELEX which a lot of the Codex (me included) likes.
But what ELEX does have is you can beat up NPCs just like you could in all the Gothic games. And you can pick up clutter and if it's in someone's house they will get angry at you for stealing.

Avowed has NOTHING of this.
The only bit of reactivity I have seen is that when you climb onto a cloth overhang while parkouring, it will rip and you fall down. That's cool, but it's such a specific detail that it only makes it more obvious how the more common details aren't there.

More important than clutter physics is NPCs not reacting to being attacked, guards not coming to your help when you lure an enemy into town, nobody reacting when you steal items under their noses. That is the worst, that is what's inexcusable.
Attackable NPCs have been a STAPLE of western RPGs OVER 20 YEARS AGO

Baldur's Gate? You can attack and kill civilians.
Fallout? You can attack and kill civilians.
Arcanum? You can attack and kill civilians.
Morrowind? You can attack and kill civilians.
Ultima? You can attack and kill civilians.

I don't remember if you can attack everyone in VtM: Bloodlines, but I do remember that you can attempt to suck the blood of civilians and if you suck too much they can die and it leads to a masquerade violation when people see you do it. So even when people like Roguey come with excuses like "You couldn't kill everyone in Bloodlines either, it's just not that kind of game!" at least Bloodlines allowed SOME interaction with NPCs and when you did those interactions, the world would REACT to it!

Meanwhile in Avowed you can draw your sword, whack a guy in the face with it, and literally nothing happens. No reaction. He won't take damage. He won't fight back. The guards don't care. It's as if you hit a static mannequin.

THIS is the real problem of Avowed: not that it lacks one or two elements of simulation, but that it lacks ALL reactivity you would expect in a game like this.