Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Mitleser2020]

The return of the Bhaalspawn...

Spoiler

Slayer?

 

[Joseph Stalin]

The novels were bad. But in the end seems that the canonic things happened were the ones narrated in the original game. The only difference is they actually given an identity to Charname Abdel Adrian that's about it. The novel were so hilariously bad that they were overall disliked this is why in the end wizard of the coast wanted to canonize the events but using the games instead of the novels.

Abdel Adrian dies in Murder on Baldur's gate. Another relevant adventure for baldurs gate 3 is Baldur's gate: Descent in to avernus. As Zariel get mentioned a lot of times during the adventure. Of course if you follow the storyline presented in those two adventures you will notice that Bhaal is actually returned now and this is very interesting.
My Theory is that the whole tadpole thingy and the illithid will be not the main villain in this game is just how the adventure starts and unfold.

The events of Murder of Baldur's gate are not only canonized but also relevant as it the even that will lead to the resurrection of Bhaal

Not sure who can be the main villain still . Illithids + many netheril references, could be Ioulaum involved, an archmage turned elderbrain and lich ,who else could tamper with tadpoles , would work as the collective they always refer to . Main villain could be some other netheril archmage, there's references to karsus too ,plenty of choices there still.

Swen confirmed that the Illithids are not the main villain... and the Dead Three are name-dropped... and one of the Origin Characters is supposedly a Bhaalspawn... soooo...

 

[Joseph Stalin]

There's also that check in New Vegas which makes the situation go worse for you if you pass it.

I wish there were more games that punish you for being a charismatic smartass. Passing a dialogue check, only for the other guy to go "well aint you a cocky little shit" or something, and drive the situation sour.
I know that technically that would be the outcome from FIALING the check, but in some situations, with it being adequately telegraphed of course (maybe some other NPC saying X doesn't like smooth talkers), succeeding in the check should result in the worst outcome. As it is right now, whenever I see an option to do a skill check against a skill I have high score for, I immediately do it, regardless of context. Its never bad to roll on a skill you have pumped up high in almost any game. Kind of like how in Mass Effect you pick paragon or renegade, and take all their prompts, even if they aren't what you'd necessarily want to do. Or in SWOTOR how you do all the light/dark side choices, regardless if its what you want, because you are light side and that's the light side choice. You are charisma-man, and this is the charisma-man dialogue, so click that.

What if there is some dialogue check against arcana or some other knowledge, and you proudly click and pass that, and the other guy immediately accuses you of being a witch and attacks? Stuff like that.

There is a game like that. Two, even - Pillars of Eternity. Dialogue options unlocked via high stats/abilities can bite you in the ass if you just blindly click on the "bigger number choice".

 

[Nano]

You know what dialogue check was cool in Pillars? The one where you threaten a working girl to give you information, she tries to call a guard, and you can physically force her mouth shut. That was rad.

 

[Black]

You know what dialogue check was cool in Pillars? The one where you threaten a working girl to give you information, she tries to call a guard, and you can physically force her mouth shut. That was rad.

Force shut with what???

 

[Silverfish]

With impunity.

 

[Nano]

Force shut with what???

You don't get to rape her, sorry to disappoint you. It's still a pretty alpha dialogue sequence, though.

Spoiler

 

[Butter]

You know what dialogue check was cool in Pillars? The one where you threaten a working girl to give you information, she tries to call a guard, and you can physically force her mouth shut. That was rad.

MCA wrote that.

 

[Chubblot]

Judging by some reactions, apparently this leak hasn't reached the Codex yet, so here it goes.

One of the Origin Characters, labelled as "The kid", is apparently the child of Abdel Adrian, and also a Bhaalspawn, of course.

Whether this is s literal child or a young adult isn't known.

Was there ever any citation on this? I can't find any mention of Abdel Adrian in the game files I've sifted through, and only a single reference to "thekid" in the same factions.lsx file that seems to have been compiled fairly early on as it lists Helia as "denleader" while most of the others are listed by name.

 

[Fedora Master]

It doesn't even make sense. Bhaal deliberately invested his divine essence in his kids. He regained his essence after all his offspring died, or the deaths reached a critical mass. Its not an inheritable trait.

 

[Lacrymas]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

 

[Fedora Master]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

 

[Lacrymas]

There aren't power levels in D&D like it's Dragon Ball Z or something. The power of a god depends on their portfolio and how many worshipers they have.

 

[Fedora Master]

There aren't power levels in D&D like it's Dragon Ball Z or something. The power of a god depends on their portfolio and how many worshipers they have.

There's a distinction between lesser, intermediate and greater deities, for one. It's not like the capabilities of gods are arbitrary. There are no rules for blowing your load investing your divine essence into things but I doubt gods can just do it without giving some of their power away in the process.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

Not if this process dilutes the divine essence and splits it between the parent and children. At which point you could get into stuff like the firstborn having a half share, second born with a quarter share and the third born and parent both having an eighth share as each portion of the divine essence is split from what remains. Twins, etc might each have a third and the parent retains a third. Children of two Bhaalspawn would have double this and be more powerful, etc.

Anyway, this whole thing is dumb as hell.

 

[Delterius]

There aren't power levels in D&D like it's Dragon Ball Z or something. The power of a god depends on their portfolio and how many worshipers they have.

doesn't that mean we can calculate their power level as a function of worshipers times level of wizard spells they can cast

 

[deuxhero]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

BG2's expansion already had a kid of a Bhaalspawn (Draconis).

Really, the bigger decline is that by including Myrkul it says he wasn't devoured by the Spirit Eater/that such was ineffective.

 

[Xamenos]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

BG2's expansion already had a kid of a Bhaalspawn (Draconis).

Really, the bigger decline is that by including Myrkul it says he wasn't devoured by the Spirit Eater/that such was ineffective.

Myrkul, like Bane and unlike Bhaal, had more than one contingencies in place. The Spirit Eater was one. The other was the Crown of Horns, an artifact he possessed when Midnight killed him over Waterdeep. 3.5 lore was that the shard of Myrkul in that artifact was enjoying his new existence as a malevolent sentient artifact with no obligations so much that he had abandoned his plans for resurrection. I assume 5e would have him change his mind and succeed, if they were interested in explaining his return at all.

 

[Gargaune]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

BG2's expansion already had a kid of a Bhaalspawn (Draconis).

Really, the bigger decline is that by including Myrkul it says he wasn't devoured by the Spirit Eater/that such was ineffective.

Myrkul, like Bane and unlike Bhaal, had more than one contingencies in place. The Spirit Eater was one. The other was the Crown of Horns, an artifact he possessed when Midnight killed him over Waterdeep. 3.5 lore was that the shard of Myrkul in that artifact was enjoying his new existence as a malevolent sentient artifact with no obligations so much that he had abandoned his plans for resurrection. I assume 5e would have him change his mind and succeed, if they were interested in explaining his return at all.

I think it's fair to say that's just different writers doing their own thing, it's not like someone at WotC had planned in advance to have both that Crown of Horns and the Spirit Eater. More likely Obsidian submitted their concept for approval and whoever vetted it either didn't know or just figured whatever, it ain't gonna be canon anyway. For what it's worth, Kelemvor in MotB says it quite confidently that Myrkul will fade away if you've both devoured him and ended Akachi's curse.

I'm also not sure why WotC/Larian are cramming Bane and Myrkul into BG3, unless they now mean to use a videogame to set their wider official canon. While it was an Avatar Crisis spinoff, the original saga only involved Bhaal in any real capacity, the other two were literally just a footnote in the first game. Personally, I'd have preferred they just steered clear of Bhaalspawn altogether, the original conclusion was definitive enough and we're getting into really stupid territory once we start splitting hairs over the heritability of Lord of Murder genes.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

It is an inheritable trait, all of the children of Bhaalspawn are Bhaalspawn themselves.

I can't criticise fantasy genetics but logically it doesn't make sense. It'd mean any god could increase his power level by breeding tons of mortals who pass on his essence, thereby creating more of it.

BG2's expansion already had a kid of a Bhaalspawn (Draconis).

Really, the bigger decline is that by including Myrkul it says he wasn't devoured by the Spirit Eater/that such was ineffective.

Myrkul, like Bane and unlike Bhaal, had more than one contingencies in place. The Spirit Eater was one. The other was the Crown of Horns, an artifact he possessed when Midnight killed him over Waterdeep. 3.5 lore was that the shard of Myrkul in that artifact was enjoying his new existence as a malevolent sentient artifact with no obligations so much that he had abandoned his plans for resurrection. I assume 5e would have him change his mind and succeed, if they were interested in explaining his return at all.

I think it's fair to say that's just different writers doing their own thing, it's not like someone at WotC had planned in advance to have both that Crown of Horns and the Spirit Eater. More likely Obsidian submitted their concept for approval and whoever vetted it either didn't know or just figured whatever, it ain't gonna be canon anyway. For what it's worth, Kelemvor in MotB says it quite confidently that Myrkul will fade away if you've both devoured him and ended Akachi's curse.

I'm also not sure why WotC/Larian are cramming Bane and Myrkul into BG3, unless they now mean to use a videogame to set their wider official canon. While it was an Avatar Crisis spinoff, the original saga only involved Bhaal in any real capacity, the other two were literally just a footnote in the first game. Personally, I'd have preferred they just steered clear of Bhaalspawn altogether, the original conclusion was definitive enough and we're getting into really stupid territory once we start splitting hairs over the heritability of Lord of Murder genes.

Didn't Icewind Dale II hint that Bane would devour his son and return? Which is exactly what happened?

 

[Xamenos]

Didn't Icewind Dale II hint that Bane would devour his son and return? Which is exactly what happened?

That dumbass Iyachtu Xvim was the contingency that worked, but not the only one. In one of the Finder's Stone novels the bad guy is a Banelich that has been bestowed a ritual involving the artifact Hand of Bane to resurrect his god. The party finds the artifact first, but is betrayed by a woman who is revealed to be a cleric of Bane. She hands the artifact over to the Banelich who immediately disrespects her and tell her that inferior females are not worthy to serve Bane and will have no place in the church after he succeeds and becomes the new Banite high priest. So she betrays him too, destroys the artifact and ruins Bane's plan.

I think it's fair to say that's just different writers doing their own thing, it's not like someone at WotC had planned in advance to have both that Crown of Horns and the Spirit Eater. More likely Obsidian submitted their concept for approval and whoever vetted it either didn't know or just figured whatever, it ain't gonna be canon anyway. For what it's worth, Kelemvor in MotB says it quite confidently that Myrkul will fade away if you've both devoured him and ended Akachi's curse.

Yeah, true, no one planned all this from the beginning. But I think it worked well enough that the smarter two of the Dead Three had more than one plan in place. And it was even better when Bane was the only one to succeed, before 5e started handing out divine resurrections like candy.

 

[hell bovine]

I don't keep up anymore with the D&D mythology, it's like a soap opera. At this point I'd not even be surprised if the plot twist is that it's yet another leftover Bhaalspawn.

 

[Gargaune]

Didn't Icewind Dale II hint that Bane would devour his son and return? Which is exactly what happened?

Icewind Dale II is set in 1312 DR, decades before the Time of Troubles, but the game itself was released in August 2002. Bane was resurrected in FR canon in June 2001 according to the FR Wiki (ref. 42), so it was published before Black Isle began the game's ten-month long development.

Yeah, true, no one planned all this from the beginning. But I think it worked well enough that the smarter two of the Dead Three had more than one plan in place. And it was even better when Bane was the only one to succeed, before 5e started handing out divine resurrections like candy.

Agreed, 5E feels like WotC just went and combined "bring everything back" and "don't decanonise the 4E crap" in a frenzied panic. I think Bane was worth resurrecting as of 3E, he was a pretty cool dude with a role to fill, but Bhaal and Myrkul were more valuable as history fodder. On a related note, it's also why I dislike the existence of spells like True Resurrection. I get that it might be tough losing a high-level PC, but at some point dead's gotta mean dead.

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't keep up anymore with the D&D mythology, it's like a soap opera. At this point I'd not even be surprised if the plot twist is that it's yet another leftover Bhaalspawn.

The game already runs on meme recognition so I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

WOTC actually saved D&D by undoing what the super awful 4th edition brought on the table. In the 4th edition they messed up so badly that in the end they gathered feedback from the community largely retconning and undoing the 4th edition and putting back quite some things that were loved in the secon edition. For istance the 4th edition ruined basically everything that was Plane related killed some Gods and ruined others for no apparent reason screwing up also other settings as well by doing them FR dependent. It also removed Sigil as the center of the universe and put Brass a city in the elemental plane of fire ruled by Efreeti as center of it. With the 5th most 4th bulsshit was stomped hard and replaced to restore old things.

And is for the best. Since the 4th edition lore and cosmology was utterly terribly bad.