Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

At least that gay romance happened dynamically

Oh, so you want dynamic gay romances now?

 

[Drakortha]

Non-Edgy Gamer calls me a redditor, but can't help himself from putting a rating on every single post he doesn't agree with. Fucking queer.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

@Non-Edgy Gamer calls me a redditor, but can't help himself from putting a rating on every single post he doesn't agree with.

If you'll stop posting like a redditor, I'll stop rating you as one.

 

[Drakortha]

If you'll stop posting like a redditor, I'll stop rating you as one.

Because bringing up the bear over and over again isn't something a redditor would do.

Every single page of this thread is the same thing with you faggots. There is no substance to any of your retorts, it's always the same "Hey, look, remember the bear??!?!", A fucking retarded meme that stopped being relevant 1 day after it surfaced.

 

[Barbarian]

NPC schedules has always been BS nobody cares about. First game that hyped it was Shenmue I think? And then for many years studios like Bethesda did the same shit and hyped it.

It is literally a waste of resources to have every single npc character have a schedule and move around the city. I would much rather have reactivity in an rpg that such crap - the single biggest selling point being hyped on this game. I would wager this is one of the things BG3 is doing right.

 

[Drakortha]

NPC schedules has always been BS nobody cares about. First game that hyped it was Shenmue I think? And then for many years studios like Bethesda did the same shit and hyped it.

It is literally a waste of resources to have every single npc character have a schedule and move around the city. I would much rather have reactivity in an rpg that such crap - the single biggest selling point being hyped on this game. I would wager this is one of the things BG3 is doing right.

You don't want games to push hardware to it's limits? And no, I'm not talking about unoptimized, bloated textures and effects that melt your 12gb Vram GPU and take up 200gb of hard drive space.

There's so many possibilities for RPG's to be a lot more than what we're getting. Why even be excited about going to the city of Baldur's Gate if it's all static set dressing? I can't for example break into someones house at night while they are sleeping and steal their shit, or assassinate a target by stalking them and waiting for that perfect moment in their daily schedule where they are totally alone, with no witnesses.

BG3 seriously lacks emergent gameplay, and only gives you the illusion of choice. It's much more on rails than you think. Nothing happens without the developers and writers say-so. That is just boring and regressive when we've had the possibility for much more for years now, but problem is we have a gaming public who are accustomed to games not innovating and only reaching for the status quo, and developer crunch is the boogey man.

 

[Late Bloomer]

It is literally a waste of resources to have every single npc character have a schedule and move around the city. I would much rather have degenerate cutscenes in an rpg that such crap - the single biggest selling point being hyped on this game. I would wager this is one of the things BG3 is doing right.

Fixed for BG3 fans.

 

[Drakortha]

Fixed for BG3 fans.

Don't forget to add the part about Larian having pedigree, and that they would never crunch because they are the heroes!

And these faggots call me delusional.

Spoiler; They already are the villain and always will be, you DOPE.

 

[Barbarian]

What is so good about schedules? Are you one of those dudes that liked following oblivion npcs and admiring their day to day activities? Did that make it a good game? Was it better to invest in that other than have non-linear quests and actual roleplaying?

Compare it to pathfinder games. Npcs had static locations and only moved if it was scripted by some quest or event. Was it a better or worse rpg than oblivion, where every single character followed a daily routine but provided nothing of interest or consequence?

NPC schedules has always been BS nobody cares about. First game that hyped it was Shenmue I think? And then for many years studios like Bethesda did the same shit and hyped it.

It is literally a waste of resources to have every single npc character have a schedule and move around the city. I would much rather have reactivity in an rpg that such crap - the single biggest selling point being hyped on this game. I would wager this is one of the things BG3 is doing right.

BG3 seriously lacks emergent gameplay, and only gives you the illusion of choice. It's much more on rails than you think. Nothing happens without the developers and writers say-so. That is just boring and regressive when we've had the possibility for much more for years now, but problem is we have a gaming public who are accustomed to games not innovating and only reaching for the status quo, and developer crunch is the boogey man.

That is what we are getting at, this might be one of the least linear rpgs ever developed and has production value to top it off.

I have seem some gameplay videos, EA alone had some pretty impressive reactivity with very diverse ways to solve most quests or interact with characters. If they keep to their promise that every single npc is killable that is already quite impressive.

 

[Drakortha]

What is so good about schedules? Are you one of those dudes that liked following oblivion npcs and admiring their day to day activities? Did that make it a good game? Was it better to invest in that other than have non-linear quests and actual roleplaying?

I want everything, all of it.

I want an RPG world where my character isn't the only one in the world going about their business doing things. I want to run into different NPC's in different places, doing different things every time, or sometimes running into familiar ones in unexpected places. I want all of this while still having non-linear quests and actual roleplaying.

Unlike the Larian fags, I don't believe in compromises. Compromises was something we had to contend with in 1998 and the early 00's because of limited hardware. It's been 20 years. I expect more and It's about fucking time.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

What is so good about schedules? Are you one of those dudes that liked following oblivion npcs and admiring their day to day activities?

He probably is. He even nutted out when I suggested that most D&D players don't do this in PnP.

That what we are getting what, this might be one of the least linear rpgs ever developed and production values to top it off.

Overall plot structure still seems to be linear, but it has branching pathways. E.g., there seem to be two routes to get to Moonrise Tower, and you can choose to get there by helping the druids, the goblins or neither. You can also choose whether or not to help the tieflings in the process, or to kill them.

A truly non-linear game would be Fallout, where you can just walk over to the mutant base from the start, if you know where it is. Arcanum is similar. Morrowind technically has this, though it doesn't appear to be intentional. Witcher 3 is technically non-linear and seems to have been designed for it, but the broken level-scaling they slapped onto it ruins that.

It's a highly reactive linear game with a branching plot structure. So far, at least. If it turns out that you can head to Moonrise and back before dealing with the goblin invasion, that may be different. Doubt it will be this way though.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I want an RPG world where my character isn't the only one in the world going about their business doing things. I want to run into different NPC's in different places, doing different things every time, or sometimes running into familiar ones in unexpected places. I want all of this while still having non-linear quests and actual roleplaying.

And this is why I said you want the game to be Oblivion. Because you do.

 

[Silverfish]

Barbarians can intimidate goblins into eating shit.

Every now and then I think maybe Drakortha is right and the hobby has passed me by.

 

[Drakortha]

And this is why I said you want the game to be Oblivion. Because you do.

I wanted a Baldur's Gate 3 that was ambitious. But the BG3 we're getting is ambitious in marketing alone.

You bought into it. I didn't.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Every now and then I think maybe Drakortha is right and the hobby has passed me by.

If it makes you feel better, this stuff has been in RPGs since BG2. And before it, actually.

It's just that now the culture has changed, so devs brag about it more. And it's cinematic, so a lot more painful to watch than a simple fade to black.

The main thing that's changed is trannyism - the incorporation of specific woke gender ideology. The worst of that you have in BG was the ability to select whatever voice you wanted for your character, and Edwin's temporary sex change.

 

[Silverfish]

If it makes you feel better, this stuff has been in RPGs since BG2. And before it, actually.

It makes me feel better that I didn't engage with the genre back then. So, glass half full.

 

[DemonKing]

Thanks god Larian has their priorities right:

https://www.eurogamer.net/baldurs-gate-3-romantic-scenes-used-intimacy-coordinators

An intimacy coordinator or director is "a choreographer, an advocate for actors, and a liaison between actors and production for scenes that involve nudity / hyper-exposed work, simulated sex acts, and/or intimate physical contact," according to idcprofessionals.com.

 

[Voids]

Hey heey heeeyah hey
dual wielding is gay

 

[Ladonna]

NPC schedules has always been BS nobody cares about. First game that hyped it was Shenmue I think?

Not sure if it was the first, but Ultima V was the first game I remember using it, that was in 1988 on a C64.

What is so good about schedules? Are you one of those dudes that liked following oblivion npcs and admiring their day to day activities? Did that make it a good game? Was it better to invest in that other than have non-linear quests and actual roleplaying?

Schedules can be used for game purposes, especially with stealth and infiltration. Ultima V had this, along with night meetings with resistance, following NPC's to find hidden characters, and so on. I am sure this could be hugely expanded with modern hardware, but nobody has bothered to try and utilise it. Oblivion did less with it than Ultima V did, with infinitely more resources available.

Whether it should be in a BG game is up for debate, but there is no question in my mind that NPC schedules, if used properly, with imagination and talent (and the PC horsepower available today) could massively expand the options and gameplay in a RPG.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Schedules can be used for game purposes, especially with stealth and infiltration.

The issue is that all of this can be done without AI. BG2 didn't have real schedules or an AI, but it had such quests. BG3 also has a quest to intercept agents of the Absolute en route to Moonrise. Again, no AI needed.

Arcanum did have schedules for almost every NPC. It added little to the game, other than making shopkeepers easier to rob. It didn't have an AI for them, just assigned beds for NPCs to use depending on the time of day.

Oblivion had "AI". It added almost nothing to the game, other than funny ways to break the AI.

There's no need to make a broken Radiant AI system to do schedules, and even if you do schedules without AI, they add little to the game that scripted events and quests wouldn't already do, and probably do better.

I don't see any reason to add it to a series that never had it, when reactivity is more important. Maybe it'd be cool for TES 6 or whatever, but go play that if you want it so bad.

 

[blessed king of longing]

I want to take a moment out of your day to shill a youtube channel i stumbled over recently. This has to be the last based channel on the entire plattform and i thought you might want to check it out before it inevitably gets shoa'd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjX8WkLybzQ&list=UULFlo62-0_WXR9cm5sZ5kFE6w

No thanks. I don't find rehashing old takes interesting, why do you?

 

[Ladonna]

BG2 didn't have real schedules or an AI

What stealth and infiltration quests did BG2 have?

BG3 also has a quest to intercept agents of the Absolute en route to Moonrise. Again, no AI needed.

How does it work?

Arcanum did have schedules for almost every NPC. It added little to the game, other than making shopkeepers easier to rob. It didn't have an AI for them, just assigned beds for NPCs to use depending on the time of day.

Yes, missed opportunity. Arcanum had a lot of half arsed things in it, from this to combat. I can see where the devs wanted to head with it, but without implementing the rest it falls off a cliff. Now, if Arcanum had combat full of options that was well made (along JA2 lines), along with the ability to find alternate routes into buildings (secret tunnels, windows that allow entrance/exit (utilised but never really used for anything)), a stealth system that actually worked, and was useful, proper NPC schedules, and systems where the NPC's could deviate from their script, we might have had something special. The game is still one of my favourites in spite of this.

Oblivion had "AI". It added almost nothing to the game, other than funny ways to break the AI.

I'm glad it did, otherwise it would have been entirely boring with it's random loot, scaled enemies and copy pasta quests/areas, which were the games real killers. Nothing more hilarious than screwing around with the AI in many games. With that said, just giving up and turning every game into a quest dispenser is hardly the right answer either.

There's no need to make a broken Radiant AI system to do schedules, and even if you do schedules without AI, they add little to the game that scripted events and quests wouldn't already do, and probably do better.

For plotlines in existing written quests, sure.

I still think it is something that should be trialed though.

 

[Drakortha]

Whether it should be in a BG game is up for debate, but there is no question in my mind that NPC schedules, if used properly, with imagination and talent (and the PC horsepower available today) could massively expand the options and gameplay in a RPG.

It was supposed to happen for Original Sin.

Now 2 whole Larian games later and it still hasn't happened. Everyone excuses this and thinks it's okay because they have short memories, which is why Larian will never deliver on it's original promises that got them where they are now in the first place. It should have happened with Original Sin 2, they had the resources and the money. But it's far too late now. It's commercial success set their formula in stone.

Get ready for Larian to shit out the same trash over and over again for years to come aka Skyrim syndrome.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

What stealth and infiltration quests did BG2 have?

Thieves guild quests, e.g., take a necklace away from a Talos cleric. There were several other quests you could sneak past enemies, but that's not really what we're talking about.

BG1 had the endgame, where you had to sneak past the flaming fist or else fight them in order to avoid arrest.

How does it work?

You...intercept agents of the Absolute en route to Moonrise? There's no schedule, you just do it as part of the quest if you join the Harpers. It's an event. Alternatively, you could be the one intercepted, if you chose to side with the Absolute.

Yes, missed opportunity. Arcanum had a lot of half arsed things in it, from this to combat.

More like it wasted time on things that weren't core gameplay. Some of which I enjoyed immensely, mind you.

Like, why generate giant landmasses and let the player travel over them in real-time, when you can just simulate it with the automap?

I'm glad it did, otherwise it would have been entirely boring with it's random loot, scaled enemies and copy pasta quests/areas, which were the games real killers. Nothing more hilarious than screwing around with the AI in many games. With that said, just giving up and turning every game into a quest dispenser is hardly the right answer either.

Except that's all Oblivion NPCs were. Radiant AI wasn't immersive and was only used in gameplay to do gay stuff like the stupid poisoned apples.

It wasn't a proper roguelike. It was just broken and stupid.

I still think it is something that should be trialed though.

Sure. But it depends on the sort of game you want to make and what role the AI will play. If all you want to do is make the world feel alive, you don't need an AI. If all you want is infiltration quests, you don't need an AI.

Even Hitman, where NPC schedules are part of the core gameplay, mainly used prescripted routes for NPCs, not a real AI. Because only in Oblivion's idiotic system is someone going to see a random apple and just eat it because it suddenly appeared in their pocket.

 

[Crispy]

Hey Drakortha,

You made your point.

Now shut the fuck up.

Thanks,

- Every other human being on planet earth