Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Larianshill]

Was armor system worse before the definitive edition? I didn't have a single problem with it, but I didn't play the original.

 

[Grunker]

Armor system is horrendous. Not because it's hard, but because it kills the only interesting part of DOS' otherwise fairly shallow mechanics

 

[NJClaw]

Was armor system worse before the definitive edition? I didn't have a single problem with it, but I didn't play the original.

Oh no, not this again.

Let me briefly summarize the discussion which will inevitably ensue from your question:

A: "The armor system is dumb because the optimal strategy is to have a full-magic or full-physical party."

B: "That's not true, a balanced party allows you to deal with different threats faster."

A: "That's not true, the armor system is dumb because the optimal strategy is to have a full-magic or full-physical party."

B: "That's not true, a balanced party allows you to deal with different threats faster."

A: "That's not true, you're a dumb-dumb."

B: "That's not true, YOU are a dumb-dumb."

Here, no need to thank me. If you want to relive an actual discussion, this one covers almost all the fundamentals.

 

[jackofshadows]

Purchased.

Let’s see what a Ranger can do.

In the release build they were op as fuck. Some codexer did a solo run iirc, their pet alone (spider especially) was insane. Curious to hear if all the patches since then have changed that (unlikely).

 

[Larianshill]

Anything I should know starting out?

Hordebreaker is really, really bad.

 

[Gargaune]

BG3 loses to Solasta NWN2:

• In UI

Yep.

 

[Larianshill]

I recently had a conversation with a braindead drone, who said that pop-ups like in Solasta would break the flow of the game and make them throw the keyboard at the wall after the fifth one. It's honestly baffling to me that people defend BG3's reaction system, when Solasta did it the smart way, and it works.

 

[NJClaw]

I recently had a conversation with a braindead drone, who said that pop-ups like in Solasta would break the flow of the game and make them throw the keyboard at the wall after the fifth one. It's honestly baffling to me that people defend BG3's reaction system, when Solasta did it the smart way, and it works.

What's incredibly funny about that is that adding a pop-up system for reactions in BG3 wouldn't in any way change the gameplay for someone who doesn't want to use it. You just need to add a third status to the already existing toggle: "always use reactions", "never use reactions", "ask me every time".

But please guys, let's not forget that only recently Larian figured out how to allow the player to cast a spell on a character clicking on his portrait. They will probably bridge the technological gap to make a functioning pop-up system in 2055.

 

[Gargaune]

I recently had a conversation with a braindead drone, who said that pop-ups like in Solasta would break the flow of the game and make them throw the keyboard at the wall after the fifth one. It's honestly baffling to me that people defend BG3's reaction system, when Solasta did it the smart way, and it works.

What's incredibly funny about that is that adding a pop-up system for reactions in BG3 wouldn't in any way change the gameplay for someone who doesn't want to use it. You just need to add a third status to the already existing toggle: "always use reactions", "never use reactions", "ask me every time".

But please guys, let's not forget that only recently Larian figured out how to allow the player to cast a spell on a character clicking on his portrait. They will probably bridge the technological gap to make a functioning pop-up system in 2055.

Larian's UI department don't like simple fixes. The problem is they don't like complicated ones, either.

 

[Delterius]

the UI is a metaphor for pain

 

[Desiderius]

You are assuming that DOS2 and old school RPG's has something in common. THAC0, AC, Saves(...)this things would melt the brain of the average modern RPG fan.

Not really. You don't have to understand any of that in order to play the game. It only matters when you're trying to optimize your performance on higher difficulties, but that's another story.

The basics that you actually need to comprehend are communicated to the player by characters shouting "My weapon is ineffective!" (and variations of thereof), which should be hint enough to try hitting that enemy with something else. Or just ask online for a solution or advice. I mean, I was able to play through Icewind Dale (my first RPG) and then Baldur's Gate, and I don't consider myself a genius. In fact, I had no idea about THAC0, AC or Saves. All I had to do is equip better armor and better weapons as I gained them. Same with spells: just cast more powerful ones as you level your casters up. No real limit on resting also helped, because you didn't have to "pace" your team throughout the journey (which is something both Baldur's Gate 3 and Solasta: Crown of the Magister try to implement, and I support that attempt).

Just because a lot of people don't like to learn - or don't think they can learn, or think learning to be difficult - doesn't mean they can't play and learn what works and what doesn't as they go. After all, video games aren't exactly exclusive goods made for intellectual elite in mind. It's a pastime. All you really need to succeed is the willingness to keep playing. That's it.

Humans are learning machines. Rates vary but if it isn’t happening at all something’s in the way.

 

[Desiderius]

the UI is a metaphor for pain

My first impression is that you may be onto something. I bought the game because the wiki made it look like DOS II, which I enjoyed at low levels.

The game currently plays as if they re-used DOS II but took out the functionality.

 

[Pink Eye]

Is it at least fun.

 

[Desiderius]

I don’t have a big problem with starting on the Spelljammer. You don’t fight any big baddies. It’s the Cirith Ungol thing of Evil will shall Evil mar, and all the big baddies canceling each other out, leaving the path wide open for hobbits and newbs.

 

[Desiderius]

You can even go the woke Ultima VI route and realize that really Mind Flayers are people too and get a Morte with his Pink Matter still intact.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don’t have a big problem with starting on the Spelljammer. You don’t fight any big baddies. It’s the Cirith Ungol thing of Evil will shall Evil mar, and all the big baddies canceling each other out, leaving the path wide open for hobbits and newbs.

nooooooo it's too epic! I demand you start out by raking the yard followed by fixing the broken sign!

 

[Desiderius]

Is it at least fun.

I think. It will be a lot more fun when you can click on mobs and pan the camera, especially after clicking the edge panning box in the controls one would think that would be an option.

Haven’t figured out how to adjust difficulty yet. Default is Deadfire faceroll with lots of looting random stuff, which is definitely as much in the BG (and PS:T!) tradition as it is D:OS.

 

[hell bovine]

Anything I should know starting out?

Hordebreaker is really, really bad.

Hordebreaker was fine when I've tried it on a stealth bow ranger, got something like four attacks (I don't recall how that worked) in the opening round. And it is really easy to sneak currently. You can even cheesily stealth in the middle of melee with pass without a trace & darkness or cloud fog.

Other than this, my advice would be to pick someone with darkvision. Funny enough infravision was useless in BG1 & 2, here it is the opposite.

 

[Pink Eye]

Post pictures of your gameplay. If you can.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is it at least fun.

I think. It will be a lot more fun when you can click on mobs and pan the camera, especially after clicking the edge panning box in the controls one would think that would be an option.

Haven’t figured out how to adjust difficulty yet. Default is Deadfire faceroll with lots of looting random stuff, which is definitely as much in the BG (and PS:T!) tradition as it is D:OS.

Difficulty options aren't in yet.

 

[Gargaune]

Delterius, Grunker, citations supplied:

Interfaces aside, BG3's party controls concept is exactly the same as NWN2's, in that you control your leader and the rest of the party follow indedepently. Though it wasn't quite as emphasised as it was in the original design for its predecessor, NWN2 was still built as a co-op platform.

Where BG3 massively screws the pooch is in the interfaces to execute that concept. NWN2 had Orders (via context menu or hotkeys) and BG3 has the Toilet Chain, but NWN2 also implemented standard multi-selection mechanisms via Shift+Click and, later, Marquee Click+Drag. Coupled with the ability to turn AI completely off via Puppet Mode and a keybind to toggle Select All on and off, NWN2's control scheme did allow you to get some basic simile of the old IE controls, and you could come to terms with it after a bit of practice.

BG3's implementation doesn't let you do that, even though all the elements are already there. You don't even have to jettison the Toilet Chain, you just need to add Shift+Click and Marquee on top of it to apply to non-chained characters. Basically, unchaining acts as Puppet Mode and you can manually select multiple characters as needed. If characters are chained together, they act as they do now, and if they're unchained, all of and only the ones which are in your active selection execute. If you Marquee two unchained characters and there's a third character, chained to one of the former two, then obviously that character will continue following its assigned leader. And this doesn't interfere with multiplayer, because it only applies to characters assigned to a given player, you wouldn't be able to Marquee another player's character just like you wouldn't be able to chain them.

In summary - BG3's party controls follow the same concept as NWN2's for the same reason of multiplayer-compatibility, but they're far, far worse in execution.

Everything I've described earlier to add multiple selection on top of the Toilet Chain would take one programmer for a day, two at the very worst, and that's allowing time for testing and reading Facebook the Codex.

But if you just wanna test the concept with the minimum amount of work, all you need is to add Shift+Click listeners on the portraits to loop companions in and out of the current leader's chain, and a new button and keybind to toggle Chain All on and off. It's like two hours' work, and even that would be a massive improvement over the current trainwreck.

Oh, and the camera fixes - screen-edge turning, disable auto-lock, manual pitch - another couple of hours. Seriously, Larian, what's the hourly rate for a programmer in Belgium, €30? €120 and I stop calling your opus "worse than NWN2", think about it.

P.S. NWN2's UI has better modularity, too. Minimaps are decline.

P.P.S. Quickcast.

 

[Desiderius]

Gith isn't nearly as repulsive as I thought she'd be - they've bridged the uncanny valley with a nice rack ("hidden" behind a shiny breastplate for the wokel censors) - although of course she's the girlboss.

Spoiler

Zoomerphags would be lost without their Matriarchy (giving them an AOC to hold their hand will sell a million copies. Swen's a marketing genius)

But it's not oppressive. She's scared shitless more than stronk womon.

Game hung on loading screen after activating transponder. We'll see if I've got a working autosave tonight. If there were any interesting puzzles or interactions I failed to find them despite full exploration. Feels kind of like original ESO that way, although much better looking and better cinematics.

EDIT: I guess finding baby Morte with his brain still in counts as an interesting interaction.

 

[Lacrymas]

What is the point of BG3?

Co-op to seduce your future lover.

 

[Cryomancer]

Codex got filtered so hard by dos2's armor system that they're still butthurt about it.

It is the most RETARDED armor system ever. Secondary dual hit bar which makes your char immune to a lot of things.

Armor deflecting blows > Armor reducing damage by a flat amount > Armor in percentage reduction > Armor as a secondary health bar.

I recently had a conversation with a braindead drone, who said that pop-ups like in Solasta would break the flow of the game and make them throw the keyboard at the wall after the fifth one. It's honestly baffling to me that people defend BG3's reaction system, when Solasta did it the smart way, and it works.

You are really a Larian fanboy?

 

[Pink Eye]

I don't think he is a fanboy. If he was. He'd be doing a better job of selling us on Baldur's Gate 3.