Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Nano]

That being said, I don't think a day/night cycle would benefit the game in any way at all.

Other than, say... mantaining the standard that both the previous games had it, and it meant something... ?

It did?

 

[Drakortha]

It's not that it's some grand and essential feature every game must have. That's beside the point - it's 2021 and this is BG3 and it's missing basic shit that simply made sense to have in games 20 years ago, but are now conveniently left out because modern day developers are lazy as fuck! Like I said, a potato could program a better game world at this point.

Larian should have just made a Baldur's Gate MMO and populated the world with those NPC's with "?" above their heads.

This shit is just embarrassing.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

made sense to have in games 20 years ago,

it did?
can't wait until you guys start worshiping Obllivion tbh

 

[fantadomat]

It's not that it's some grand and essential feature every game must have. That's beside the point - it's 2021 and this is BG3 and it's missing basic shit that simply made sense to have in games 20 years ago, but are now conveniently left out because modern day developers are lazy as fuck! Like I said, a potato could program a better game world at this point.

Larian should have just made a Baldur's Gate MMO and populated the world with those NPC's with "?" above their heads.

This shit is just embarrassing.

What is embarrassing is that such shit is defended on the codex and lariantards are tolerated here.

 

[Drakortha]

What is embarrassing is that such shit is defended on the codex and lariantards are tolerated here.

There's nobody more despicable than a fanboy.. Believe me, I've seen them. They sit around jerking each other off and even swallowing too. It's disgusting! They will defend garbage and any excuse will do. It's appalling, truly. Don't tolerate that shit man!

 

[Heinrich]

The thing I dislike most about BG3 is that we used to have small comfy friendly threads in this subforum, with

being the dominating rating in these parts. But since the announcement of BG3 we got infested by the dumbest people on the codex, the whole Bioware, Black Isle, Obsidian conglomerate. People who got into RPGs later are better. People who got into RPGs earlier are obviously better. But for some reason having the infinity engine games as your formative experience turns you into some sort of constantly aggravated dumbass freak, permanently screaming while your brain is running out of your ears.

 

[Zeriel]

If you didn't care, you wouldn't post.

ToEE crashed on me 3 times at the Balrog fight. 4th time it didn't. Beat it. But then I didn't replay it for ~10 years just because of that.

The only difference is the Internet. It, now, keeps track of stuff like this. I bet you 10 years from now P:K will be praised, and no one will remember the 9months where it ran like a trashbin.

And to reply to Rusty too, because I don't care to double-post: I will play BG 3 when it comes out, and much like Solasta or WotR, God save its soul for how hard I'm going to disect it.

P:K was praised at release even when it was a "trashbin". I get that some people had a bad experience, but the consensus here on the Codex was glowing.

 

[Gargaune]

Turns out it's not so meaningless.

Funny enough, the lightning system is also an argument against day and night. Besides what I had say about people just playing always in the dark with darkvision, you will see games like Splinter Cell and Thief always take place at certain hours of the day, without time passing. This is because the developers craft the levels carefully with the idea to offer a challenging and fun experience to the player. In this instance then, by locking the hour of the day you can then make a better done level where stealth actually plays like a real stealth game. You can compare for example to two great real time party based stealth games made by the same company: Desperados III and Shadow Tactics. In those games levels are always locked at certain hours of the day and both daylight and nighttime offer different advantages and disadvantages.

The focus of Swen in stealth in all the gameplay demostration makes me think this may had been a main reason why the had chose to do it this way.

This certainly makes sense. But this could’ve been easily managed be Larian not an adepts of theme park level design. In the end this all boils down to level design. Is it harder to implement? Yes. Is it impossible? Absolutely not.

If we're gonna argue the gameplay merits, not implementing a day/night cycle is also a missed opportunity particularly because Larian put quite a bit of effort into modeling a sophisticated* stealth/perception implementation. These aren't exclusively PC attributes, mobs get 'em too, so deciding whether you want to tackle an outdoors area by day or by night could factor in both. Are you gonna bank on your ability to sneak around in the dark, or would you rather reduce your risk of an enemy ambush? Now throw in a proper camping feature as well, in situ instead of crawling inside your own Bag of Holding for a kip, and imagine emerging from a dungeon into hostile territory in your least favourite time of day - do you forge ahead against bad odds, or do you risk a random encounter while waiting/resting? It's a bit of a shame 'cause there's more potential on the table, and you could still have "fixed lighting" indoor levels when you want 'em.

(* Albeit it's only sophisticated on the visual side via illumination and line of sight, I've argued before that not having a roll when approaching in stealth from behind is a big oversight. There's a reason Garret doesn't wear chainmail.)

 

[Heinrich]

Baldur's gate is not sending their best.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

There are consequences of not having a D/N cycle that go way beyond cosmetic changes or the chances to to have time-specific encounter design.
The whole fact that the game doesn't have a proper tiredness mechanic and that their rest system is such a half-baked and yet convoluted mess are arguably all indirect consequences of having a game that doesn't account for time passing and doesn't differentiate about context.

This is why Owlcat can get away with a "cheap" solution with characters camping anywhere (at a risk) and having banters with each other while Larian has an instanced magical place that somehow is the same wherever you are traveling (even the Underdark!), improves by itself over time (who's building these fucking tents, anyway?) and where ALL the character interactions take place.

And somehow the first solution manages to comes off as incomparably more effective, consistent and immersive than the second, despise most likely costing a fraction.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

but the consensus here on the Codex was glowing.

bullshit, maybe you want to go back and actually read the release thread where we warned people not to buy it because it was so buggy

 

[Zeriel]

but the consensus here on the Codex was glowing.

bullshit, maybe you want to go back and actually read the release thread where we warned people not to buy it because it was so buggy

I was there. Those people were in the minority.

 

[Heinrich]

It's sending people that have lots of mental problems.

 

[Zeriel]

There are consequences of not having a D/N cycle that go way beyond cosmetic changes or the chances to to have time-specific encounter design.
The whole fact that the game doesn't have a proper tiredness mechanic and that their rest system is such a half-baked and yet convoluted mess are arguably all indirect consequences of having a game that doesn't account for time passing and doesn't differentiate about context.

This is why Owlcat can get away with a "cheap" solution with characters camping anywhere (at a risk) and having banters with each other while Larian has an instanced magical place that somehow is the same wherever you are traveling (even the Underdark!), improves by itself over time (who's building these fucking tents, anyway?) and where ALL the character interactions take place.

And somehow the first solution manages to comes off as incomparably more effective, consistent and immersive than the second, despise most likely costing a fraction.

Afair the argument from Swen is they didn't want to do day/night cycles because if they did they would want to make them meaningful. Personally I think they should just do the cosmetic one because people want it and say fuck off afterwards, but Swen doesn't see it that way. It's either full Ultima 7 schedules or nothing.

This was from the time of D:OS 2 though, I stopped following Larian since that shitpile and don't know if they said anything about it with regards to BG3.

 

[Volourn]

'Budget concerns'. i have no doubt bG3 has a way, way, way bigger budget than BG1 and even BG2 had when they came out. LMAO

 

[Shrimp]

1 budget != 1 feature

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, it's dumb. If anything BG1 & 2 were considered low-budget back then. What you got for low budget was just different.

You can pay the best artists and developers to try and mimic a 1998 era game now and they won't produce the same caliber of work relative to the technology of the time that college kids working in the garage for 30k/yr did back then.

 

[Heinrich]

They're bringing shitposts. They're bringing retardation.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If anything BG1 & 2 were considered low-budget back then.

By who?

 

[Poseidon00]

Day and night cycles are vital to DnD. Like what the fuck. How is a thief supposed to do thief shit when it is perpetual daylight and nobody ever sleeps. How is a bard supposed to moonlight as a spy. None of the actual roleplaying shit works when you can't even have basic mechanics like day and night.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Afair the argument from Swen is they didn't want to do day/night cycles because if they did they would want to make them meaningful..

The examples they used is that they'd need to add bedroom for all characters, give them a daily schedule and all that jazz.
And frankly THAT would cost a lot, but it would also be absolute overkill that no one is asking them.

The assumption that "You either go ALL THE WAY IN or you shouldn't even bother" is a stupid one. Most of us would gladly accept the compromises necessary (i.e. "daily" NPC that simply disappear at night -and the other way around- and similar shit).
There are plenty of advantages and improvements enabled even by a more conventional and modest implementation of the feature. Like the old BG 1 and 2 already proved in several circumstances and like plenty of other games did after them.
Well, actually even before, since I think it's Ultima that introduced it first.

 

[Poseidon00]

Nearly two decades since Morrowind proved a truly open world DnD game is possible the motherfuckers at WoTC STILL refuse to make it happen.

And now it's too late because DnD sucks

 

[Heinrich]

They're Bulgarians.

 

[Zeriel]

If anything BG1 & 2 were considered low-budget back then.

By who?

Their own developers/publishers to my recollection. I remember Fargo or one of the other big-wigs saying it was relatively small scale from the bird's eye view.

 

[Zeriel]

Afair the argument from Swen is they didn't want to do day/night cycles because if they did they would want to make them meaningful..

The examples they used is that they'd need to add bedroom for all characters, give them a daily schedule and all that jazz.
And frankly THAT would cost a lot, but it would also be absolute overkill that no one is asking them.

The assumption that "You either go ALL THE WAY IN or you shouldn't even bother" is a stupid one. Most of us would gladly accept the compromises necessary (i.e. "daily" NPC that simply disappear at night -and the other way around- and similar shit).
There are plenty of advantages and improvements enabled even by a more conventional and modest implementation of the feature. Like the old BG 1 and 2 already proved in several circumstances and like plenty of other games did after them.
Well, actually even before, since I think it's Ultima that introduced it first.

If my phrasing didn't make my implication clear, I agree, and think Swen is dumb for taking this approach. If a cosmetic change that has no real drawback will please a lot of people, might as well do it.

BG1 was just color filter + some audio changes and it was really compelling to the audience, so yeah.