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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

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Codex Year of the Donut
Iirc Larian also said they sold a million copies in the first week.

They didn't, that was a news article also based on SteamSpy.

I think there's some overestimating going on here. An Early Access turn-based RPG isn't going to sell 3-4 million copies. Even one million would be insanely impressive.
https://baldursgate3.game/news/community-update-11-inspiration-freedom-pacifism_17
Neat Factoid: 770k of you rescued the Fishermen Thralls in the crash site. Now, you'll clearly see that this also results in you gaining an inspiration point
Rescuing them wasn't required and was completely optional.
December 2, 2020

cope more, obsidian fanboy.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Too bad the game doesn't have achievements yet. We could use that number to calculate the total.
 

Heinrich

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Iirc Larian also said they sold a million copies in the first week.

They didn't, that was a news article also based on SteamSpy.

I think there's some overestimating going on here. An Early Access turn-based RPG isn't going to sell 3-4 million copies. Even one million would be insanely impressive.
https://baldursgate3.game/news/community-update-11-inspiration-freedom-pacifism_17
Neat Factoid: 770k of you rescued the Fishermen Thralls in the crash site. Now, you'll clearly see that this also results in you gaining an inspiration point
Rescuing them wasn't required and was completely optional.
December 2, 2020

cope more, obsidian fanboy.
We have so many autists with too much time in this thread, someone could go through that post, look at all the numbers and get a pretty accurate sales estimate. Though remember, this post is almost exactly a year old, they sold more since then.
 

Heinrich

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Anybody have an idea what percentage of DOS2 (or POE and the like) players bought the game but never even started it up? You have to account for those guys as well and there would be more of them proportionally in an early access game.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
Anybody have an idea what percentage of DOS2 (or POE and the like) players bought the game but never even started it up? You have to account for those guys as well and there would be more of them proportionally in an early access game.
There's no real way to figure out how many sold so it's not worth bothering trying to figure it out. We're in "a lot" territory, which is sufficient when discussing it.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Anybody have an idea what percentage of DOS2 (or POE and the like) players bought the game but never even started it up? You have to account for those guys as well and there would be more of them proportionally in an early access game.
I can definitely tell you that this game I haven't even touched because it's currently unplayable for me.
 

mediocrepoet

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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Anybody have an idea what percentage of DOS2 (or POE and the like) players bought the game but never even started it up? You have to account for those guys as well and there would be more of them proportionally in an early access game.
I can definitely tell you that this game I haven't even touched because it's currently unplayable for me.

You're waiting for bards too, huh.
 

Cryomancer

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My bad, then. EA will always be the killer of Ultima to me

Yep. Electronic Farts killed Ultima, killed BioWare and a lot of interesting games(dungeon keeper, command and conquer, etc). The last game from then which I bought was BF1.

Honestly, I'd say the possible market for it(or a similar cRPG) isn't that much smaller than say, Witcher 3, due to coop. Coop seems to be the magic sauce you add to any game to make it sell 3x as much, no idea why normies love it so much.

I disagree. ""Action RPG's"" will always sell more than turn based RPG's. Cyberbug 2077 sold 10,000,000 .. 20,000,000 on steam only according to steamspy. TW3 is with a similar range of sales with 10 to 20 mi according to steamspy. Considering the console sales + GoG sales, 30~50 mi copies is my estimation. IMO the market for TW3/Cyberbug style of RPG's is probably 10x bigger than the market for DOS2 style of RPG's which is probably many times bigger than the market for old school style of RPG's like the Pathfinder CRPG's, KoTC and so on. Some old school RPG's are only popular here in Codex. Like Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

it's currently unplayable for me.

Try this mod > https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/113

It adds Barbarian to the game.
 

Cryomancer

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DOS2 style of RPG's which is probably bigger than the market for old school style of RPG's like the Pathfinder CRPG's,
DOS2 is the "old school style" one, not the RTwP games.

Disagree. First, both OwlCat games can be played in turn based, similar to Arcanum and M&M VI~VIII. Second - There are a lot of old school RPG's with Rt gameplay. Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession, Daggerfall, Menzoberranzan(...) Third. In game mechanics, DOS2 is very modern. Fourth - I also mentioned Knights of the Chalice 1/2.
 
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So how many copies sold so far do we know?
Good guess is probably in the 3-4 million range.
m7jI6WW.gif


Normies play Diablo, not Baldur's Gayt 3.
 

Ulfhednar

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No one should worry about BalD:OS Gate 3. I have it on good faith from certain prestigious codexers that they will personally buy 8 million digital copies once the game is out of early access to dominate the steam charts. 24 million if it has co-op.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://80.lv/articles/creating-characters-for-baldur-s-gate-3/

Creating Characters for Baldur's Gate 3

Lead Character Artist at Larian Studios Alena Dubrovina has shared the working process behind characters made for Baldur's Gate 3, talked about the tools the team uses, and explained how the entire character art pipeline has evolved over the years.

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Introduction
Hello! My name is Alena and I’m the Lead Character Artist at Larian Studios. I have studied at Howest Digital Arts and Entertainment in Kortrijk, Belgium. As a part of the university program all students should complete a 4-month internship and that’s exactly how my journey at Larian Studios started almost 6 years ago. I worked on two projects at Larian so far: Divinity: Original Sin 2 (including Definitive Edition) and Baldur's Gate 3.

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Designing a New Character
The first step is getting as much information from all the departments involved. It usually starts from the writing team and design team, since we need to know where in the game a creature or an NPC will be used and what is their story. There are usually a lot of requirements on the look of the character from the combat and systems design teams, and lots of rules and restrictions from tech animation. When all the limits and goals are established, the next step is visual direction. Direction defines the general tone and some specific visual features that should be present, and provides some reference material that would guide the Concept Artist.

After the concept is done, the modeler can start with the blockout. While blocking out a character we usually communicate with tech animation, animation, and combat design and test our blockout in the game so that everyone can agree on practical details.

At Larian we believe in the freedom of artistic expression, so the modeler is allowed to change things from the concept if need be, and in most cases, there are opportunities for modelers to come up with the design elements themselves.

Changes in the Character Art Pipeline
After Divinity: Original Sin 2, we made quite a big leap in model quality. It involved improving the character art tools, picking up new pipelines, and getting a lot of support from our graphics programming team. Roughly I can divide these changes into 4 categories:

  • Heads photogrammetry
  • New hair pipeline
  • New graphics features and shaders
  • New Character Editor tools
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We wanted to improve our head models since we now have cinematic dialogues. So adapting the photogrammetry pipeline for our character modeling was the most natural thing for us. We partnered with the Ten24 team and scanned 36 photo models that we used as a base for our in-game models. Head scans can not only serve as a base but also can be a great source of reference and knowledge for artists. It helps you grasp the anatomy and natural shapes of the face much better than if you would try to study it yourself only from the photo refs. In ZBrush, things look a bit different than in real life so by just looking at your sculpt and the scanned head, you can spot anatomy errors much easier.
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In terms of the hair, we went from full-clay-sculpted hair to the next-gen strand approach which required whole new skill sets from artists and a new hair shading model from our graphics programmers. At the beginning of the project, most of the hairstyles' designs were outsourced which helped us set the quality bar and develop the pipeline and tools we needed for the hairstyles. Our tech art team has developed a hair tool for Maya that helps us with aligning the strands and controlling the vertex colors to achieve believable results, not only for hairstyles but also for fur and feathers.
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Graphics programmers also helped us push our work forward with new skin and hair shading models, improved lighting and shadow quality on characters. Volumetric Fog, SSS, automated LODs system through Houdini, and more things are yet to come.

We realized that the scope of this project is going to be huge and with the quality bar we wanted to achieve we needed to focus on modularity and establish a system that would allow us to build unique NPCs from parts right in the game engine. We called this tool Character Editor, it allows you to assign meshes that are grouped by related categories to your character and exposes every parameter that is available in their shader in the right menu.

This tool allows us for quick iterations and customization for hundreds of characters and creatures in BG3.

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Left Panel – one of multiple meshes could be assigned on the character from this menu. Right Panel – all the parameters that are present on the character are available here.
Since a lot of our internal tools are developed for Maya we don’t really use Blender in our production. However, a lot of artists at Larian are big fans of Blender and its rendering engine.

For BG3 we started using the Houdini engine as well on a number of things. Our tech art department uses it for automatic LOD generation, water flow generation, and destructible pipeline via the Maya plugin. Our VFX department also uses Houdini to generate vertex animation textures, for fluid simulations, RDB destruction, and complex particle simulations.

Sculpting and Modeling Workflow Changes
We certainly started to pay more attention to details. The scale of details has also changed and became much smaller since our style is more realistic now than it was in DOS2. Photogrammetry that I mentioned above helped us speed up head production and we managed to average it to 6-7 days per head instead of 11-12 days which was our estimate prior to using scans in the pipeline.

Since DOS2, using Marvelous Designer has become an essential part of our pipeline. Anything that has cloth and folds we try to simulate in MD and give it a good base before applying final details in ZBrush.

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In terms of ZBrush updates and tips & tricks, I think there wasn’t anything that would noticeably influence our production timings but we really appreciate the adding so many small useful features that make artists' life a bit easier every year.

Retopology and Unwrapping
We allow artists to use any tools that they personally prefer for retopology and UVs. At Larian we use Maya, 3DCoat, Topogun, and RizomUV. For organic stuff, I personally also like to use ZBrush together with Maya for my UVs. When I was working on the common head UVs for all races some areas like the nose and eyes needed to be stretched to allow more texture resolution so UVs can hold up on faces of any race like Dwarves or Githyanki. So ZBrush tools usually come up very handy for things like that and allow for quick iterations.

Higher polycount is actually another key in terms of how to improve your model quality. If I compare polycounts of DOS2 vs BG3, I’d say they almost doubled for characters. Most of the mid-size and even smaller details like buttons and claps are now modeled which allows the lighting to do its job so your model looks higher quality than the one with flat-baked details.

This is also one of the common things that I usually advise on most portfolio reviews – up your polycounts. I see this issue in lots of junior artists' portfolios: they tend to over-optimize their personal projects to a point that it eats up the quality of their mesh. My advice would be to always go a bit higher than needed for personal things to make sure the render looks its best.

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Texturing and Shaders
One of our core requirements for most of the character shaders is customizability. The most basic customization that we have in our character shaders is color customization. So far we have 4 different types of color customization in our character shader: ID mask color customization, RGB mask color customization, skin color customization, and Gradient Map customization.

The first two use a simple system of multiplying the masked area with a custom color but the difference between them is that an ID map allows us to have 11 color parameters for each color on the ID mask vs RGB mask only allows 3, but allows blending between the masked areas.

Skin is one of the most advanced and tech-heavy shaders we now have in-game. Color customization happens here by combining 4 maps: Hemoglobin, Melanin, Vein Map, and Yellowing Map. This way we can control the color details and manually adjust them to fair and deeper skin tones, which previously was a huge problem with the “multiply color” approach. On top of color customization, we have bruises, blood, sweat dirt that we can add, we can add makeup, tattoos, and scars. In our recent patch, we also added the functionality of having Draconic Bloodline scales that can appear on any head if you pick a Sorcerer subclass for your player.

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Conclusion
I think the key to leveling up is looking critically at your own work and setting up some goals for yourself to improve. Try to define as well as you could what exactly you want to achieve and then research what could be helpful for you to learn or try to reach your goal. Compare your work to somebody else's work of a similar style and quality and check what your work is still missing to reach the quality bar you desire. One of the things that I personally find very helpful is looking at our competition and AAA games to understand how they did certain things.

Playing games and noticing some visual bugs or just paying close attention to how NPCs and characters look might give you some useful information on how they are made. Reading up articles and tutorials, checking out new tools that become available for character artists – all that can bring your work to the next level.

And lastly, to level up any skill, you will need to put in some hours, however, these hours might not always grow your skills if you’re just doing the same thing over and over again. If you want to learn, your work needs to meaningfully push your boundaries. Try new pipelines, experiment with your work, explore new software, and have fun with your art!
 
Last edited:

Nano

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
2 to 5 million copies sold? In early access? Of a third game in a decades old series? What the fuck?
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
2 to 5 million copies sold? In early access? Of a third game in a decades old series? What the fuck?
Codex when confronted with the reality that Larian singlehandedly not only revived the cRPG genre but has created three of the best selling cRPGs ever made and one of them hasn't been released yet.

I diagnose the codex with LDS — Larian Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include incoherent rambling, insistence that RTwP isn't trash, and repeating the phrase "Belgian man bad"
 
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2 to 5 million copies sold? In early access? Of a third game in a decades old series? What the fuck?
Codex when confronted with the reality that Larian singlehandedly not only revived the cRPG genre but has created three of the best selling cRPGs ever made and one of them hasn't been released yet.

I diagnose the codex with LDS — Larian Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include incoherent rambling, insistence that RTwP isn't trash, and repeating the phrase "Belgian man bad"
The reality is that you are just a huge fanboy of Larian's waifu and lizardman husbandu simulators and see everything related to the D:OS series (see what I did there?) though pink tinted glasses.

There is no way this game sold 3 to 4 million copies while in early access. It probably won't even reach those figures after leaving EA.
 

Ulfhednar

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Codex when confronted with the reality that Larian singlehandedly not only revived the cRPG genre but has created three of the best selling cRPGs ever made and one of them hasn't been released yet.
To have a best-selling cRPG, it's probably a good idea to actually release it at some point. Given that, as far as I'm aware, we don't have a release date or even a target quarter... and the game has been in early access for a year... and they're still adding basic classes to the game... and they're not exactly a two-man operation working out of someone's basement on the weekends... either they're behind schedule and it will come back to bite them, or sales are irrelevant to them because they are getting funding from other sources. Neither is good for people who care about cRPGs.

And by your own admission, a huge part of D:OS 2 sales were due to hyping features like co-op and DM-mode to normies through groups like Critical Role. The question is will that work again, or was it a one time product of the zeitgeist? I honestly don't know the answer to that, but normies can be pretty fickle. Also, how many normies that were hooked by bucket helmets, barrel-mancy, and watching oil surfaces burn won't be back for the more grimdark BG3?

I diagnose the codex with LDS — Larian Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include incoherent rambling, insistence that RTwP isn't trash, and repeating the phrase "Belgian man bad"
I have no interest in being a Mormon - thanks, but no thanks...

Belgian man is bad for BG 1+2 fans, and Owlcat is scooping up that older audience. I've been playing IE RTwP games for 20+ years, and it was pretty obvious shortly after BG3 was formally announced that Swen could give a rat's ass what that audience thinks. Developing both RTwP and TB gameplay should be cRPG industry standard now, especially for a company with the budgets that Larian has, so I'm gonna leave BG3 on the shelf.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
2 to 5 million copies sold? In early access? Of a third game in a decades old series? What the fuck?
Codex when confronted with the reality that Larian singlehandedly not only revived the cRPG genre but has created three of the best selling cRPGs ever made and one of them hasn't been released yet.

I diagnose the codex with LDS — Larian Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include incoherent rambling, insistence that RTwP isn't trash, and repeating the phrase "Belgian man bad"
The reality is that you are just a huge fanboy of Larian's waifu and lizardman husbandu simulators and see everything related to the D:OS series (see what I did there?) though pink tinted glasses.

There is no way this game sold 3 to 4 million copies while in early access. It probably won't even reach those figures after leaving EA.
I'm upping your dosage to 40 hours of BG3.
 

Zeriel

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I dunno why people don't believe it could sell that much. 2D indie games on Steam can sell millions of copies. Really doesn't mean much.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

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Strap Yourselves In
Larian games have the same quippy writing style
They really don't. Most of their games have incredibly stupid writing. BG3 actually has decent writing.

I will admit that the style is similar to Marvel movies in wit, however, that's about the end of the similarity. The characters are much better written than the one dimensional Black Widow, Hawkeye, Thor or Loki, for example. They all have motivations and potential character arcs that stretch a bit beyond "Hulk mad....Hulk still mad, but helpful".

That said, we still haven't seen Minsc yet, and he was probably the most one-dimensional character in the BG series.
 

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