Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Just a bunch of spergs moving around erratically without any particular reason as you stroll around.

I kinda get this, but it seems like a nitpick to me. Which is fine, we're all particular in different ways. It's more that I've been playing a lot of Solasta lately and despite the characters having more of a standard select and click interface, they tend to move kind of like that if you select them all and sometimes if combat starts during a move, more than one character will be in the same space and they'll separate arbitrarily as initiative is rolled.

It looks dumb, but it's a relatively minor and primarily aesthetic issue, imo.

Well, going in order:

- I wouldn’t really call it a nitpick. If anything I think my clip shows the controls in a more favorable light that they deserve. If I showed you my attempt to split the party in two and move three characters for each opposite direction you’d see what “clunky” really means.

- While I find Solasta a decent game for its shoestring budget I wouldn’t really take it as a model of ideal party controls either. And I would STILL take it over what we use in BG3.

- Well, you see, that’s exactly the problem. It isn’t a cosmetic thing (which doesn’t help its case as an angle, anyway). It’s first and foremost a functionality issue. If you are going to make a system where splitting the party is a goddamn pain, you could at least try to make moving the party as a single entity vaguely palatable.

The system is just too erratic, which incidentally is a TERRIBLE marriage with Larian’s unhealthy habit of placing traps, surfaces and environmental hazards every two fucking steps in some area.

Sometimes you don’t even need to move. Just switching character to cast something has your party rearranging randomly improvising a Benny Hill skit.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Just a bunch of spergs moving around erratically without any particular reason as you stroll around.

I kinda get this, but it seems like a nitpick to me. Which is fine, we're all particular in different ways. It's more that I've been playing a lot of Solasta lately and despite the characters having more of a standard select and click interface, they tend to move kind of like that if you select them all and sometimes if combat starts during a move, more than one character will be in the same space and they'll separate arbitrarily as initiative is rolled.

It looks dumb, but it's a relatively minor and primarily aesthetic issue, imo.

Well, going in order:

- I wouldn’t really call it a nitpick. If anything I think my clip show the controls una more favorable light that they deserve. If I showed you my attempt to split the party in two and move three characters for each opposte direction you’d see what “clunky” really means.

- While I find Solasta a decent game for its shoestring budget I wouldn’t really take it as a model of ideal party controls either. And I would STILL take it over what we use in BG3.

- Well, you see, that’s exactly the problem. It isn’t a cosmetic thing (which doesn’t help its case as an angle, anyway). It’s first and foremost a functionality issue. If you are going to make a system where splitting the party is a goddamn pain, you could at least try to make moving the party as a single entity vaguely palatable.

The system is just too erratic, which incidentally is a TERRIBLE marriage with Larian’s unhealthy habit of placing traps, surfaces and environmental hazards every two fucking steps in some area.

Sometimes you don’t even need to move. Just switching character to cast something has your party rearranging randomly improvising a Benny Hill skit.

Yeah, certainly BG3 and Solasta's budgets aren't similar at all.

I still think it's probably mostly a nitpick, but I have to confess I haven't touched it since around the launch of EA... but I do remember the select and party members moving around thing.

I suspect that it's not so much that Larian isn't interested in feedback as they figure it's a cosmetic nitpick and not worth resolving. Maybe it'll get picked up on a polish pass, depending on what the nature of the issue is (I have no idea how big of a deal it would be to address something like that, but I suspect it's probably a lot more than the average person would assume - based on my experience with other software related issues).

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Is it common it Italy to associate chains with toilets?

That type of model isn't used very often anymore, unless you go into some very old homes, but yeah, generally speaking the term "catenella del cesso" (toilet chain) is still used as a not-very-formal-nor-polite way to refer to any toilet flush.

And even more in general some variation of "Tira la catena" ("Pull the chain") is a way to suggest someone to get rid of his own shit (both literally and figuratively).

Reminds me of the scene from The Godfather (1972) where they're planning Michael's assassination of Solozzo and McCluskey:

SONNY: I'll get it. *into the phone* Yeah...Yeah...Well, thanks... *after hanging up the phone and returning to the table* Louis' Restaurant in the Bronx.

TOM: Well is it reliable?

SONNY: That's my man in McCluskey's precinct. A police captain's gotta be on call twenty- four hours a day. He signed out at that number between eight and ten. Anybody know this joint?

TESSIO: Yeah, sure, I do. It's perfect for us. A small family place, good food. Everyone minds his business. It's perfect. Pete they got an old-fashion toilet...you know, the box, and... and... and... ah the chain-thing. We might be able to tape the gun behind it.

CLEMENZA: All right, Mike: you go to the restaurant, you eat, you talk for a while, you relax. You make them relax. Then you get up and you go take a leak. No...better still...you ask for permission to go. Then when you come back, you come out blastin', and don't take any chances...two shots in the head apiece.

SONNY: Listen, I want somebody good and I mean very good...to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his dick in his hands, alright?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I still think it's probably mostly a nitpick, but I have to confess I haven't touched it since around the launch of EA... but I do remember the select and party members moving around thing.

Eh, ok. We have a combo of UI and controls that are occasionally so bad they can give cancer to small lab animals, but sure, I'm nitpicking.

Oh, on a side note: I didn't really think it was that much of a big deal at first, but I have to say "SHOVE as a bonus action" fucking sucks, too.
There are so many problems with it and how it affects the so called "action economy" it's not even funny.
Here's a summary of why:

Shove as a bonus action" at first sounds apparently minor, almost trivial.
"Oh well, it gives you a chance to make an additional attack for round. It gives my characters more things to do, right? What's the big deal?"

But then over time you realize it makes shove surprisingly convenient to use over and over, rather than "situationally useful", since as far as bonus actions go there's only rarely better options.

As a result, Larian's own systemic AI learned over updates to spam shove constantly: to push characters down precipices or buildings, to push characters on traps or damaging surfaces, to wake up allies that were put to sleep with a spell (something that normally would require an action of some sort), to create distance from the enemies and not incur in attacks of opportunity, etc, etc.

The aggravating factor is that shove is not even limited to push an enemy five feet away (or down a precipice when standing on its border) as it should be and instead it's occasionally able to YEET characters few meters afar.
As a result, not only it's a surprisingly convenient bonus action to use, but its potential effectiveness as a "1 hit KO" is exponentially increased. Normally you'd have to worry about sitting too close to a precipice (or a lava pit or whatever). Now being anywhere in its vague proximity can turn into a suicide.

Knock on effect on the balance aside, this also severely affects the "vibe and mood" of the fight: what should be a battle of sword and sorcery turns occasionally in a clownfest of people goofing around pushing each other at any given chance.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Also, since apparently I'm the only one here who's actually playing this thing, another pet peeve of mine: the trading system is fucking broken and trivially easy to exploit (even without all the stealing and killing, I mean, which is another can of worms).

More details here:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=821376&page=1

As many of you may be aware, the game currently offers two different trading UI switchable on a toggle: trade and barter.

Now, in the past months I happen to read people preferring one or the other, but here's the thing: from a viewpoint of pure convenience it's a no contest. Barter is significantly superior.
The reason is simple: with barter you can gift things to traders to increase their "attitude" toward the player. Usually all it takes is gifting items or gold for a total value of 120-200 gold coins to get a maxed out attitude, which translates in getting SIGNIFICANTLY better prices, both when you are selling stuff and when you are buying.

If this wasn't already gimmicky and exploitable enough, there's another side issue: attitude is on a character-basis rather than party-wide.
What this means in practical terms is that not only you are offered a cheap trick to maximize your profits, but to leverage it at its most, you have a mechanic that actively encourages the player to deal with additional "inventory busywork" (in a game that already has it in spades) by constantly juggling items from a character inventory to the other.
It also makes the possibility to switch between characters in the trading screen basically self-harm, since if you are not buying and selling with your most "beloved" party member you are implicitly leaving on the table a shitload of money.

My suggestion in the end is rather simple and consists of two main point, neither of which particularly complex to implement:
- remove this cheap way to manipulate prices with gifts.
- implement a less volatile system of "price fluctuation" and make it PARTY-WIDE rather than single-character-focused, maybe determined by your party's average charisma and/or reputation with the faction/merchant you are dealing with.

Advantages of these changes:
- it removes the temptation to exploit the system by removing the exploit.
It makes the option to switch between characters while trading something sensible to do and even advisable rather than an exercise in financial masochism.
- it somewhat helps to keep "gold inflation" at bay.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Oh, on a side note: I didn't really think it was that much of a big deal at first, but I have to say "SHOVE as a bonus action" fucking sucks, too.
There are so many problems with it and how it affect the so called "action economy" is not even funny.

They didn't remove that?
I thought they were changing it when they split disengage off from jump and made sure disengage wasn't a bonus action (making rogues pointless since cunning action is a huge part of their kit).

That's actually a pretty severe and stupid issue, for exactly the reason you're noting. Back when I was playing this, I was using up my attacks, etc. and then using bonus actions to shove either to get out of threat range or to try and maneuver someone to a place where they'd get fired off a cliff.

 

[Swen]

Also, since apparently I'm the only one here who's actually playing this thing, another pet peeve of mine: the trading system is fucking broken and trivially easy to exploit (even without all the stealing and killing, I mean, which is another can of worms).

More details here:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=821376&page=1

As many of you may be aware, the game currently offers two different trading UI switchable on a toggle: trade and barter.

Now, in the past months I happen to read people preferring one or the other, but here's the thing: from a viewpoint of pure convenience it's a no contest. Barter is significantly superior.
The reason is simple: with barter you can gift things to traders to increase their "attitude" toward the player. Usually all it takes is gifting items or gold for a total value of 120-200 gold coins to get a maxed out attitude, which translates in getting SIGNIFICANTLY better prices, both when you are selling stuff and when you are buying.

If this wasn't already gimmicky and exploitable enough, there's another side issue: attitude is on a character-basis rather than party-wide.
What this means in practical terms is that not only you are offered a cheap trick to maximize your profits, but to leverage it at its most, you have a mechanic that actively encourages the player to deal with additional "inventory busywork" (in a game that already has it in spades) by constantly juggling items from a character inventory to the other.
It also makes the possibility to switch between characters in the trading screen basically self-harm, since if you are not buying and selling with your most "beloved" party member you are implicitly leaving on the table a shitload of money.

My suggestion in the end is rather simple and consists of two main point, neither of which particularly complex to implement:
- remove this cheap way to manipulate prices with gifts.
- implement a less volatile system of "price fluctuation" and make it PARTY-WIDE rather than single-character-focused, maybe determined by your party's average charisma and/or reputation with the faction/merchant you are dealing with.

Advantages of these changes:
- it removes the temptation to exploit the system by removing the exploit.
It makes the option to switch between characters while trading something sensible to do and even advisable rather than an exercise in financial masochism.
- it somewhat helps to keep "gold inflation" at bay.

Tuco, time to sign up:

https://larian.com/playtest

 

[Larianshill]

Also, since apparently I'm the only one here who's actually playing this thing, another pet peeve of mine: the trading system

This is the first time I mention this, but here's a pet peeve of mine.
DnD is all about killing people and taking their stuff. But what is the stuff that you take? Coins - yes, but also jewelry, gemstones, art objects. Things that we value in the real world, that you can sell on the market for the insane amount of money. For example, a black opal in 5e is worth 1000gp. A bronze crown is worth 250gp. This is explicitly not true in BG3 - you find items like chalices and gems, but they're strangely worth next to nothing. Generally speaking, most of the loot you'll be selling is weapons and armor you've looted from your enemies - which is explicitly said to be not profitable in the tabletop. Best case scenario, you get 50% of their cost - worst case scenario, they're not in a good condition to sell at all.

 

[Gradenmayer]

Apparently act 2 and 3 are playable on their in-house build. They are looking for play testers for further feedback.

https://larian.com/playtest

Those 2 acts won't appear in the early access. Same as ds.

 

[Larianshill]

BuT BaLDr's gaTe 3 is vAPoRwaRe!!!!!!11111111111111111111

 

[Swen]

BuT BaLDr's gaTe 3 is vAPoRwaRe!!!!!!11111111111111111111

"Bu...bu OnLy ACt1 will Be PoLisheeeed!!!!!!!"

 

[Shrimp]

I remember in 2020 when the game first entered early access Larian was talking about how they were deciding whether or not you'd lose the companions you hadn't recruited at some point of the story or if they would let you keep access to them all (probably through the campsites) throughout the entire game.
Does anyone remember if anything ever came out of this? I forgot if they actually had decided on anything.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

They never said a single word about it since that statement.

For what is worth I can tell you the suggestion was incredibly unpopular among pretty much all types of audience.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I remember in 2020 when the game first entered early access Larian was talking about how they were deciding whether or not you'd lose the companions you hadn't recruited at some point of the story or if they would let you keep access to them all (probably through the campsites) throughout the entire game.
Does anyone remember if anything ever came out of this? I forgot if they actually had decided on anything.

As president & representative of the Official RPGCodex Larian Fanclub, I did not receive an answer when I asked this question.

 

[Black]

Because most of the Codex has you on ignore.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Because most of the Codex has you on ignore.

I meant I asked my contact at Larian, I don't care what other codexers have to say most of the time.

 

[Arbiter]

I don't care what other codexers have to say most of the time.

Why post thousands of messages on codex then?

 

[Black]

How else would you know he doesn't care?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don't care what other codexers have to say most of the time.

Why post thousands of messages on codex then?

So I don't have to read the opinions of the lessers.

 

[Gargaune]

As a result, Larian's own systemic AI learned over updates to spam shove constantly

Whoa, whoa, hold on... the AI can Shove now? I used to think that Larian deliberately kept the AI from spamming it because of how ridiculously overpowered it was against melee characters. You've got a free attack with massive damage potential depending on height, that consumes the target's next action (Prone), plus elevation Advantage on your next ranged attack (cancelled by Prone ranged Disadvantage until he gets up). As a Bonus Action. And with high ground all over the place, there's ample opportunity to use it, I remember exploiting the fuck out of this with the Gith party.

I'm actually surprised they haven't switched it to an Action by now. It's obvious Larian don't give a fuck about interfaces, but I thought they did care about balance. Swen, next time you go to E3, you'd better hire some bodyguards and give 'em Sawyer's description.

 

[Jaska]

I've been thinking of visiting Belgium at some point. Might as well sign up for the playtesting and do my visit at the same time.

 

[Larianshill]

Whoa, whoa, hold on... the AI can Shove now?

Yes. Also, bullette can spam Deadly Leap that throws everyone it contacts with for about 500 kilometers, which makes fighting it incredibly balanced and fun in Underdark, which is full of bottomless pits. Needless to say, it does not do that in tabletop.
And you better not even think about fighting the duergar in Grymforge, before Nere kills them all in a cutscene. There's about a hundred more of them than you, and they love instakills through lava.

 

[Sunri]

BuT BaLDr's gaTe 3 is vAPoRwaRe!!!!!!11111111111111111111

"Bu...bu OnLy ACt1 will Be PoLisheeeed!!!!!!!"

Dunno about that, but I'm 100% sure that end game will be shit.

 

[Swen]

BuT BaLDr's gaTe 3 is vAPoRwaRe!!!!!!11111111111111111111

"Bu...bu OnLy ACt1 will Be PoLisheeeed!!!!!!!"

Dunno about that, but I'm 100% sure that end game will be shit.

Based on what? Your polish intellect?

 

[ResetRPG]

Pretty excited to finally give BG3 a full playthrough when it finally comes out.

Absolutely loved the first 2 games with BG2 being my all time favorite game.