Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/3385036990882035275

Hotfix #28 Now Live!
Version Number: 4.1.1.1755403

Hello everyone,

We’ve got another Hotfix for you, taking care of several crashes, blockers and visual bugs. We understand that Lae’zel is hard to please by nature, but it seems that she’s been more prone to tantrums since our previous Hotfix. We’ve explained party dynamics to her, which she didn’t really enjoy, but understands that she shouldn’t randomly stop following the player now.

Thank you for taking the time to report these issues to us, and thank you for playing Baldur’s Gate 3!

CRASHES & BLOCKERS

• Fixed an issue where Lae’zel would stop following the player after going to camp when loading a previous Patch 8 savegame in Hotfix 27
• Fixed a Vulkan-specific crash that would occur during Bibberbang explosions
• Fixed Swarm AI not jumping in cases where their jump end position is blocked by another swarm member
• Fixed crashes that would potentially occur during large combat scenarios
• Fixed crashes that would potentially occur in Multiplayer combat when the player hovers the cursor over items or certain characters
• Fixed a crash that would potentially occur in Multiplayer when joining if the host was in character creation

VISUAL BUGS

• Fixed missing VFX in Plea at the Gates cinematic
• Fixed camera in the cinematic relating to Connor’s resurrection
• Fixed the antidote bottle clipping through the player’s mouth if playing as smaller races
• Fixed the camera zooming out beyond normal limits when attacking in combat

 

[Cryomancer]

Larian : EA is to gather feedback
Also Larian : We will not raise the lv cap, so players can see how the most iconic 5e spells are implemented. Nor we will put scrolls/wands for that.

I'm really curious about the swarm AI + Animate dead spell.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I should be thankful they are "exploring ideas" but honestly I'm just baffled they still haven't made a decision this late into development.

Yep. Because apparently now that they are "almost feature-complete" (according to their last cringefest Panel From Hell) is the perfect time to start tooling around with foundational systems.

Because, you know, it'0s not like people questioned things like their implementation of the action economy, of the control system or things like party size limitations constantly in the past two years.

"But what if people wouldn't like these changes?"
Man, if only there was some ideal long-running testing environment where a large amount of users have access to and where experimental features (and their popularity) could be put to the test.
We could call this thing "Anticipated Entry" or something like that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if you don't like it go make your own game

 

[Infinitron]

Dual interview with Nick Pechenin and Slitherine Battlesector producer: https://www.eurogamer.net/how-larian-and-slitherine-adapted-dungeons-dragons-and-warhammer

There’s something brilliant about tabletop evenings with friends. My Thursday nights usually involve Dungeons & Dragons. Playing an Arcane Archer from the Feywild, I’m joined by a lively party that includes a Firbolg Druid, Minotaur Barbarian, Goblin Ranger, and Tiefling Warlock. We’ve had some fun adventures these last few years. Defeating mind flayers and a lich, fighting servants of Lolth, I got shanked on a bridge - many memorable moments. Never solved that mysterious case of stray arrows hitting teammates though, very peculiar.

D&D inspires creativity, stimulating imaginations through the theatre of the mind. As a popular adaptation target, it left me wondering how game developers capture the spirit of these game. Nick Pechenin, lead systems designer at Larian Studios, happily answered my questions regarding Baldur’s Gate 3, which works off of D&D’s fifth edition.

When it came to adapting gameplay, Pechenin dives deep into development, detailing his team’s role on Baldur’s Gate 3. "What systems design means for us at Larian is working out the rules, the mechanics of the game, realising the classes, all the players options, loot, anything with numbers really, and then assisting all of the other teams looking to make a systemic feature that pops up throughout the whole game," he says. "It’s a big role but with everything moving ahead, the team initially believed 'oh, our job is done, right? The books are out, we know D&D rules quite well because we played it before, some of us DM’d it. How hard could it be, right? Just take the book the book, make the machine do what it says in the book, and you’re done, right?'"

Pechenin quickly discovered this didn’t work. "There’s several things fascinating things that we learned about deep D&D design," he explains. "One of the first things that popped up very quickly that you don’t really notice around the table, is that D&D 5th edition is kinda brilliantly designed to take advantage of the whole action happening in the theatre of the mind of the players. They don’t just assume it’s happening there; they mechanically take advantage of player being able to easily fudge things up in their mind."

Using Tieflings performing Searing Smite as an example, Pechenin explains "We were looking at it, and not really recognising it from how we played it at the tabletop when we started really getting into it. Because Searing Smite, which is what you would imagine a character smiting an enemy with their weapon and dealing some fire damage. But when you get into it, what it says is the next time you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you’ll deal additional fire damage and put a damage overtime effect on."

The course of action sounded pretty clear, though Pechenin admits this didn’t work exactly as they’d expected. "When we tried implementing this straightforwardly, that sounded like a buff action, so you buff yourself and that buff says the next time you hit a creature, something will happen. When put in the game, that doesn’t feel like I’m smiting anything at all. Like I’m just right-clicking anything, I didn’t feel like a Tiefling smiting with purpose. I felt like a buffer."

So, what did this tell the team? Pechenin says, "It immediately taught us that tabletop are writing for their medium, they take advantage of everything that is happening in that medium. If our aim is to preserve the feel of the game, to feel like you’re playing tabletop, we’ll have to do a lot of work on deconstructing the rules." As a result, this required, "examining every little bit, and trying to work out how will this feel in the game framework that we have, how will it evoke the same feelings without necessarily following exactly what works there." It's these experiences which left the team re-evaluating their approach. "When we started going through spells, class features, and feats, really kinda pulling them thread by thread. It turned out we have a lot of work to do."

It's a different story with Baldur’s Gate 3, and I ask Pechenin how difficult it was capturing that flexibility given D&D’s open gameplay. "Extremely difficult," he replies frankly. "It’s very hard competing with imagination and the most powerful, expressive thing we have: the human language. One human understanding what another human does… for a rules designer making a tabletop game, they can write the thing down and as along as they can express themselves in words, that’s how it works, right? There’s no extra steps required."

Pechenin then offers an intriguing admission, one which meant a lot of the game’s aspects required redoing to match the wider team’s ambitions. He explains, "For us, it turns out that a lot of interesting things spells want to do go against modern programming principles. You want to keep all sections of the game separate from each other, working as fast as they can, so it can all look very nice. But the designers want to do the opposite, they want to put everything together. If you stand in an area where an environmental artist put a light, you should get advantage because this spell feature says so."

Given how you don’t necessarily require maps or miniatures to play in tabletop D&D, I question how Larian’s teams worked together to capture that visual element. Pechenin explains that, "My colleagues had several iterations, several attempts at getting the feel right, and recently we’re happy with the effects." Perhaps unsurprisingly for an early access release, I’m told they’re still updating visual elements, and there’s a passionate team backing it up. "At every step, there’s a lot of passion from the developers. Basically, for any monster, for any spell, there’s always somebody in our big team for whom this is the monster or spell they really wanted to work on."

Otherwise, Baldur’s Gate 3 isn’t leaving early access until at least 2023 and Pechenin says they’ve still got a lot of work to do. Understandably, he can’t elaborate on specific content, though I’m told, "We’re working on patches that we’re announcing and behind-the scenes there’s a ton of work. We’re cooking up some very cool stuff." I doubt they’ll add an Eladrin Elf subrace anytime soon but hey, an Arcane Archer can dream, right?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Few paragraphs in and I already want to slap someone.

 

[Volourn]

The fact they think Larian games have outsold certain FF turn-based Crpgs. Lmao


MY ADVICE: DONT CALL THE GAME BG3!!!

 

[Larianshill]

I should be thankful they are "exploring ideas" but honestly I'm just baffled they still haven't made a decision this late into development.

Here's what I think happened - they considered pop-ups at the beginning of the development, but then decided that it can't be done, it would paralyze the action. Then Solasta came out and showed that it actually can be done, and the conversation shifted from "can it be done" to "should it be done". On reddit, which I assume holds the primary horde of the game's casual fans, there's some heavy resistance to the idea of pop-ups, because Solasta is "too slow" for their ADHD brains. Larian does not want to scare away that audience, but also wants to please the more hardcore players too.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

In reality even on the subreddit there’s some bland resistance to the idea of prompts/pop-ups by few, but an overwhelming majority of users seem to be in favor of them and openly advocates for the mechanic.

Which is telling, given that the place is in large measure a gathering of casual fans and terminal Larian groupies.

 

[Larianshill]

Maybe, but I don't know. The game has been in EA for quite some time, the casual astarionfucker is not posting on the sub right now, they're out playing other games. I remember the resistance being much more fierce when they were still around in large numbers.

 

[Swen]

Few paragraphs in and I already want to slap someone.

I offered you VIP treatment if you came to the larian office.

If the game sucks it will be your fault!

 

[Gargaune]

My Thursday nights usually involve Dungeons & Dragons. Playing an Arcane Archer from the Feywild, I’m joined by a lively party that includes a Firbolg Druid, Minotaur Barbarian, Goblin Ranger, and Tiefling Warlock.

Eurogamer, making Larian's fiction seem tame since 1865.

Baldur’s Gate 3 isn’t leaving early access until at least 2023

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Baldur’s Gate 3 isn’t leaving early access until at least 2023

It doesn't sound like the guy writing this has any new information about ulterior delays.
More like he's simply being vague. He's basically saying "It's not coming in 2022 and past that who really knows".
which is *technically* correct.

 

[A-Minish]

He felt like a "buffer". Wait... What did I just read ? He felt like a "buffer" by giving his weapon a buff and doing damage to something with it, like *leans on its desk* in the books ?

So he is feeling challanged about rule application because there is not enough "awesome flames on my awesome sword while I awesomly smite my foes with my awesome might", and then tells us they have indeed technical-problems while applying said rules. Technical problems he does not illustrate beyond a simple Smoke and Mirrors case. No fucking wonder the game was so bizarrely "adapted" at the early access start. Also you... You do not need to deconstruct ANYTHING when you can speak english proper and CAN apply rules without technical limitation, just do your work you lazy wast of semen...

BG3 is such a weird case. I do not even know what to think about anything BG3 related now. The Nu-Larian/Bg3 fan(atics) were already a pain in the ass with their antics, bullshits and unfounded aggressivity(Even our resident Swen seems seriously sane in comparison to those I had to endure), add the dev's unwillingness/slowness to get the job done those past two years and now this. Are the dev's and those fanatics willing to play any D&D edition at this point ?

Im going to pirate it in 2030 at this rate.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

He felt like a "buffer". Wait... What did I just read ? He felt like a "buffer" by giving his weapon a buff and doing damage to something with it, like *leans on its desk* in the books ?

So he is feeling challanged about rule application because there is not enough "awesome flames on my awesome sword while I awesomly smite my foes with my awesome might", and then tells us they have indeed technical-problems while applying said rules. Technical problems he does not illustrate beyond a simple Smoke and Mirrors case. No fucking wonder the game was so bizarrely "adapted" at the early access start. Also you... You do not need to deconstruct ANYTHING when you can speak english proper and CAN apply rules without technical limitation, just do your work you lazy wast of semen...

BG3 is such a weird case. I do not even know what to think about anything BG3 related now. The Nu-Larian/Bg3 fan(atics) were already a pain in the ass with their antics, bullshits and unfounded aggressivity(Even our resident Swen seems seriously sane in comparison to those I had to endure), add the dev's unwillingness/slowness to get the job done those past two years and now this. Are the dev's and those fanatics willing to play any D&D edition at this point ?

Im going to pirate it in 2030 at this rate.

It sounds like he's talking more about "flavor" than mechanical results. As in "It shouldn't be a weapon buff but an AWESOME BUTTON when the hit connects".

It' s a weird argument to make in favor of "pen & paper things don't work in videogames" too (which is in the end the broad theme of their interview) because incidentally that's exactly how the tabletop describes and handles the skill.
So they are once again complaining about an issue that their incorrect implementation introduced and blaming it on the original system.

 

[gurugeorge]

Here's what I think happened - they considered pop-ups at the beginning of the development, but then decided that it can't be done, it would paralyze the action. Then Solasta came out and showed that it actually can be done, and the conversation shifted from "can it be done" to "should it be done". On reddit, which I assume holds the primary horde of the game's casual fans, there's some heavy resistance to the idea of pop-ups, because Solasta is "too slow" for their ADHD brains. Larian does not want to scare away that audience, but also wants to please the more hardcore players too.

This kind of sounds about right to me. Whatever you might think about Solasta as a whole, its potato-headed monstrosities and all, the game pretty much knocked it out of the park in terms of a slickly-playable computer representation of the rules and the feel of tabletop. One of the things that works really well there is the lively feel of the reaction popups - it helps make a turn-based game feel more like it's happening in real time, and interweaves nicely with the fundamental turn-based nature of the thing, thus achieving what Larian want - an engaging flow state that mimics the engagement of the imagination in tabletop that they'e talking about.

Also, Solasta's UI is well-designed to be uncluttered-looking, the different relative sizes, with just the necessary amount of menu-burrowing (for the spells) gives you a clean psychological sense of what and where the regular, important things are. Basic and special moves are cleanly distinguished from spells. The Solasta devs have broken out of that tradition in these games (still followed by Owlcat too, sadly) of having a mind-numbing blur of samey-looking icons that only become familiar and take distinct shape in one's mind with long use.

The only thing that's a bit lacking in the Solasta UI is some mediaeval fantasy flavour, it's a little bit too clinical-looking, generic-looking, just aesthetically. That's where Larian could make it look different enough so that it wouldn't feel like they were just copying the Solasta devs (even though that's exactly what they need to do).

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

On a personal note I’ll stress that I find the idea that interrupting the enemy turn to give you an option in a turn-based game something that “breaks the flow of the game” at very least bizarre. If anything it’s the moment where you are turned from a passive spectator sitting on your ass and waiting to an active participant.
I never once remember being prompted for a Counterspell in Solasta and thinking “Oh damn, what a chore, I was so going to enjoy that chain lightning aimed at my face”.

What Larian could do on the other hand is leveraging their vastly superior budget to present the mechanic in a way that is a bit more appealing to outlooker. As someone pointed on the Larian forum, you can make it pretty much anything look ace if you throw enough polish and production value at it.
Look at what Chimera Squad (ugh) did with the "breach mechanic", which is pretty much a confirmation prompt introduced in an over-dramatic and cinematic form.

 

[Gargaune]

He felt like a "buffer". Wait... What did I just read ? He felt like a "buffer" by giving his weapon a buff and doing damage to something with it, like *leans on its desk* in the books ?

He pressed the button but the awesome was on delay. Can't have that, the awesome must happen the instant you press the button. In fact, it would be nice if the game could anticipate when you're going to press the button and give you a 10% advance on the awesome.

By the by, does the game still play those awesome visual effects when you click the Dash button?

 

[Larianshill]

Chimera Squad was better than both XCOMs, and I'm tired of pretending that it's not.

 

[underground nymph]

BG3’s UI is shaping really good though. They’ve made it functional and intuitive in the last updates. As for the aesthetics, I’d wish them to reference the old IE games more: a little nod here and little nod there, you know. As of now nothing nearly reminds of the predecessors.

The prompts issue could easily be solved by simple toggles “ask” and “auto” unless Larian has something better up their sleeve.

 

[Larianshill]

The prompts issue could easily be solved by simple toggles “ask” and “auto” unless Larian has something better up their sleeve.

This is probably the best solution. The question is whether or not Larian would spend the effort on designing two separate, but mostly equal systems.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

BG3’s UI is shaping really good though.

Is it? I think it's just moving from "downright terrible" to "vaguely serviceable" with still plenty of pitfalls.

In fact, I JUST posted minutes ago on their forum a list of things that still suck tremendously about the current inventory management:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=826068#Post826068

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

The prompts issue could easily be solved by simple toggles “ask” and “auto” unless Larian has something better up their sleeve.

I wouldn't really use, but yeah, the beauty of a prompt system is that it could STILL be automated to different degrees leveraging the pre-existing toggle system.
While conversely the opposite isn't true. If all your game offers is an automated system with just an on/off switch (which can somewhat work with basic AoO but gets progressively worse as more relevant and resource-based abilities come into play) you are left without the option to take decisions on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Reinhardt]

Chimera Squad was better than both XCOMs, and I'm tired of pretending that it's not.

"small" game made by few constantly apologizing root-eating koreans shits on it from the roof.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Good job Sven and your squidlovin'

Now the ships are coming to Earth!

Seen on my swamp biking today.