Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Nortar]

Is there any lore friendly reason for dwarven barbarians to exist? Looks pretty nonsense to me.
Edit: not saying there’s much sense in the current day DnD whatsoever.

If I'm not mistaken as back as in AD&D 2Ed there was a dwarven kit called the Battlerager.

Bah, I really should read the whole thread before replaying to the one post that triggered my inner dorf.

 

[Gromoer]

Well, dwarves tend toward isolation from other civilizations, and they are honorable as a rule, so...

Well yes, but when we talk about barbarian society’s way of isolation we mean a very particular type of isolation that rejects progress and promotes primitivism and raw power as its main staples. While the dwarven societies as we know them are often on the edge of progress maintaining strong ties with the rest of the world through trade and diplomacy. So I’d say there’s little in common between the two. There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

 

[Dwarvophile]

WHF Dwarf Slayer is unironically my fave dwarf archetype. Something about this crazy ball of muscle with a Mohawk and axes rushing you down gives me a nerdgasm.

Yeah, fond memories of the cover of Warhammer PnP first edition. Dwarf with orange mohwk vs Orc wit hblack&white mohawk.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Is there any lore friendly reason for dwarven barbarians to exist? Looks pretty nonsense to me.
Edit: not saying there’s much sense in the current day DnD whatsoever.

If I'm not mistaken as back as in AD&D 2Ed there was a dwarven kit called the Battlerager.

Bah, I really should read the whole thread before replaying to the one post that triggered my inner dorf.

Yes, PHBR6 The Complete Book of Dwarves included a Battlerager warrior kit, although this was closer to the Berserker kit from PHBR1 The Complete Fighter's Handbook than to the Barbarian kit from that same book.

The PHBR series also had a Barbarian/Berserker Priest kit and a Savage Priest kit in PHBR3, while PHBR4 The Complete Wizard's Handbook had kits for the Amazon Sorceress, Anagakok (barbarian), and Savage Wizard, and PHBR13 had the Savage and Totemic Druid kits. Arguably, the Skald kit from PHBR7 The Complete Bard's Handbook should also be mentioned in this company, since this is the historical/cultural equivalent to the Berserker kit for fighters, and perhaps also the Wilderness Runner kit from PHBR8 The Complete Book of Elves.

And of course TSR eventually published PHBR14 The Complete Barbarian's Handbook, which featured another seven barbarian-related kits for fighters and another six for clerics.

 

[Larianshill]

Is there any further lore of mystical element to the barbarian, other than a passion driven warrior?

None of them have outright spellcasting, but all subclasses of Barbarian except Berserker are some degree of magical. 7 magical ones, 1 non-magical.

 

[Tyranicon]

-gets on soapbox-

5th edition has like a million elf variants and half of them are overpowered in some way or another.

But there are only like 5 dwarf variants and none of them are especially good mechanically. And none of them has a special feature that curbstomps elves into the paste that they deserve.

Fuck elf lovers.

-gets off soapbox, takes it and leaves-

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And none of them has a special feature that curbstomps elves into the paste that they deserve.

You don't need to be specially powered to deal with elves. You just need a positive str modifier.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

Yo, barbarians don't go adventuring out of a sense of civic duty.

 

[deuxhero]

Dwarven barbarians would break the system with massive cooolness if they appear. So that's why we'll get another tranny tiefling/dragonborn artificier.

They retroactively removed the ability to play as a girl for trannies. This has negative coolness.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Well, dwarves tend toward isolation from other civilizations, and they are honorable as a rule, so...

Well yes, but when we talk about barbarian society’s way of isolation we mean a very particular type of isolation that rejects progress and promotes primitivism and raw power as its main staples. While the dwarven societies as we know them are often on the edge of progress maintaining strong ties with the rest of the world through trade and diplomacy. So I’d say there’s little in common between the two. There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

Members of the best and most realistic fantasy societies all share one viewpoint, just like in real life. This allows you to tell stories without having to remember much about specific NPCs.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Members of the best and most realistic fantasy societies all share one viewpoint, just like in real life.

Wait there are realistic fantasy societies in real life?

 

[Nortar]

Well, dwarves tend toward isolation from other civilizations, and they are honorable as a rule, so...

Well yes, but when we talk about barbarian society’s way of isolation we mean a very particular type of isolation that rejects progress and promotes primitivism and raw power as its main staples. While the dwarven societies as we know them are often on the edge of progress maintaining strong ties with the rest of the world through trade and diplomacy. So I’d say there’s little in common between the two. There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

You're mixing "barbarians", "savages" and mechanical implemetation of the barbarian class.
Originally "barbarians" meant just the people who speak different, maybe harsher-sounding, language.
And the barbarian class is characterized by high strenght, high constitution and the ablity to rage in battle increasing STR and CON even further. A pretty dwarven thing to do if you ask me.

 

[Tyranicon]

Well, dwarves tend toward isolation from other civilizations, and they are honorable as a rule, so...

Well yes, but when we talk about barbarian society’s way of isolation we mean a very particular type of isolation that rejects progress and promotes primitivism and raw power as its main staples. While the dwarven societies as we know them are often on the edge of progress maintaining strong ties with the rest of the world through trade and diplomacy. So I’d say there’s little in common between the two. There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

You're mixing "barbarians", "savages" and mechanical implemetation of the barbarian class.
Originally "barbarians" meant just the people who speak different, maybe harsher-sounding, language.
And the barbarian class is characterized by high strenght, high constitution and the ablity to rage in battle increasing STR and CON even further. A pretty dwarven thing to do if you ask me.

I know Barbarian is a legacy term and has been in DnD since the 80s, but the name is a misnomer.

Barbarians are essentially HP tanks meant to occupy and beat down enemies. Since the rage is their primary trait, calling the class a Berserker or Battlerager makes more sense, and doesn't pigeonhole character creation. Although Barbarian is too iconic now.

 

[rojay]

-gets on soapbox-

You're a wee man, aren't ya?

 

[Gromoer]

Well, dwarves tend toward isolation from other civilizations, and they are honorable as a rule, so...

Well yes, but when we talk about barbarian society’s way of isolation we mean a very particular type of isolation that rejects progress and promotes primitivism and raw power as its main staples. While the dwarven societies as we know them are often on the edge of progress maintaining strong ties with the rest of the world through trade and diplomacy. So I’d say there’s little in common between the two. There’s also a strong emphasis on wealth and prosperity in the dwarven society, while the barbarians as we know them very much despise them.

You're mixing "barbarians", "savages" and mechanical implemetation of the barbarian class.
Originally "barbarians" meant just the people who speak different, maybe harsher-sounding, language.

Not really. When speaking about barbarians I am mostly basing my assumptions on Faerun stuff I’ve read (which is not much tbh). I admit though that my knowledge of Faerun dwarves may be somewhat lacking.

And the barbarian class is characterized by high strenght, high constitution and the ablity to rage in battle increasing STR and CON even further. A pretty dwarven thing to do if you ask me.

Mechanically-wise — yes. I am more interested in the lore surrounding this class. You can say a mage become one by learning magic, a cleric — by devoting himself to a god, a fighter — well, by learning fighting. But how do you become a barbarian? I always assumed it’s more of a tradition that comes from a society and upbringing, than a mere speciality or say profession. You don’t just learn how to be a savage, you born and live as one.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Mechanically-wise — yes. I am more interested in the lore surrounding this class. You can say a mage become one by learning magic, a cleric — by devoting himself to a god, a fighter — well, by learning fighting. But how do you become a barbarian? I always assumed it’s more of a tradition that comes from a society and upbringing, than a mere speciality or say profession. You don’t just learn how to be a savage, you born and live as one.

Thanks to wonders of 3rd edition and beyond you very much can become a barbarian. There's nothing stopping a cleric from dipping into the class any time he chooses to. There really isn't any reason you need another class to represent wilder warriors. There isn't any lore reason anyone is a member of any martial class. King of Cormyr was a Cavalier in 1ED AD&D, then became a fighter in the second edition when Cavalier class was cut. All sorts of wild warriors including Conan The Barbarian were your usual fighters before the barbarian class was invented. People who write the game don't really care so why should you?

As per 5th edition anyone can become a barbarian as long as he learns how to get really angry.

 

[Yosharian]

Originally Barbarians had a non-Lawful requirement so that's probably where it is coming from.

The idea that all dwarves must be Lawful is completely moronic

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You don’t just learn how to be a savage, you born and live as one.

Not if instinct surpasses your upbringing.

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Now stop thinking in terms of Faerun only and read the works of Robert E Howard.

 

[Nortar]

And the barbarian class is characterized by high strenght, high constitution and the ablity to rage in battle increasing STR and CON even further. A pretty dwarven thing to do if you ask me.

Mechanically-wise — yes. I am more interested in the lore surrounding this class. You can say a mage become one by learning magic, a cleric — by devoting himself to a god, a fighter — well, by learning fighting. But how do you become a barbarian? I always assumed it’s more of a tradition that comes from a society and upbringing, than a mere speciality or say profession. You don’t just learn how to be a savage, you born and live as one.

But that's the thing, the class mechanics does not always equal the actual role or in-lore presentation of the character with that class.
Any munchkin power-player worth his dices would easily come up with lore reasons for running the character build he wants.

Do you need me to invent a story, how former mama's boi, son of court-librarian and queen's hand-maiden, who attended Royal Adacemy of High Magic and Arcane Faggotry went on adventuring as level 1 wizard, but then started gaining levels as a barbarian while still calling himself a mage?

 

[Gromoer]

I know Barbarian is a legacy term and has been in DnD since the 80s, but the name is a misnomer.

Barbarians are essentially HP tanks meant to occupy and beat down enemies. Since the rage is their primary trait, calling the class a Berserker or Battlerager makes more sense, and doesn't pigeonhole character creation. Although Barbarian is too iconic now.

I agree. Not only this, but also the Faerun lore itself, that adds more confusion calling northern human tribes barbaric, strongly associating the class with the culture. It’s even somewhat addressed in the wiki where there are some attempts at drawing a line between the class and the cultures.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I know Barbarian is a legacy term and has been in DnD since the 80s, but the name is a misnomer.

Barbarians are essentially HP tanks meant to occupy and beat down enemies. Since the rage is their primary trait, calling the class a Berserker or Battlerager makes more sense, and doesn't pigeonhole character creation. Although Barbarian is too iconic now.

I agree. Not only this, but also the Faerun lore itself, that adds more confusion calling northern human tribes barbaric, strongly associating the class with the culture. It’s even somewhat addressed in the wiki where there are some attempts at drawing a line between the class and the cultures.

None of this happens in a vacuum and faerun is not the only setting.

Furthermore, homo homini barbarus est.

 

[Alienman]

Is it out yet?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Is it out yet?

What? It launched six months ago. You missed it.

 

[Harthwain]

But how do you become a barbarian? I always assumed it’s more of a tradition that comes from a society and upbringing, than a mere speciality or say profession. You don’t just learn how to be a savage, you born and live as one.

Barbarian is essentially a warrior unbound by laws of "civilized" society and someone who knows how to fight, because for him it's a matter of survival and not just a job (like, being a guard in a city). Conan is the first thing that comes to mind.

The reason why barbarians are somewhat iconic for not wearing (heavy) armor is because barbarians usually don't have access to money or professionals to issue a plate armor and it helps them stand out, mechanically, from regular warriors. This is why you get bonuses for lack of armour, for example.

As to "how do you become a barbarian"? Ideally you start as one. Getting barbarian as multiclass is just gaming. I think that a good RPG should only offer you classes that can be taught, not simply offering them Matrix-style. But that would probably be less fun for some people and require too much work to find a guy who could teach you doing something, rather than just "leveling up".

 

[Rhobar121]

The armor is a bit slippery.
Since 3e barbarians can use medium armor so archetype of the savage with light armor (or even without any) never really fit.
For me, the barbarian has always been the type of fighter who relies on brute force instead of skill and training.