Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Theodora]

So what they wanted to do is what pathfinder did with the 2e basically regroup races in ancestry.

Yes, and culture warriors seized on it not being communicated perfectly as an excuse to kick up drama. Obviously WotC play the incl000sive corporation larp, but that's nothing new, and this is just a better iteration of things (and more in line with how ethnicity, genetics, and heritage actually work).

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

So what they wanted to do is what pathfinder did with the 2e basically regroup races in ancestry.

Yes, and culture warriors seized on it not being communicated perfectly as an excuse to kick up drama. Obviously WotC play the incl000sive corporation larp, but that's nothing new, and this is just a better iteration of things (and more in line with how ethnicity, genetics, and heritage actually work).

Tho careful. Wotc did shady stuff they even attempted to claim ownership of any third party setting using DnD. They are far from innocent.

 

[Theodora]

Tho careful. Wotc did shady stuff they even attempted to claim ownership of any third party setting using DnD. They are far from innocent.

I mean, I just said WotC are larpers, like most corporations that feign that their interests are aligned with "social good". Regardless, it should be obvious that any company that hires the Pinkertons isn't your friend.

People making rules / gameplay decisions aren't the business planners or money seeking vampires though.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I'm only answering this bit because

Because I already won the argument by providing you proof that bestiality is indeed a widespread problem.

Same thing with the technicolour flag, it's just meant to be an explicit recognition of people already technically included under said labels.

The fact that said groups are large enough to merit specific recognition is an issue. "Freak" used to be a good enough catchall for them, but here we are, with everyone demanding to be recognized for their own unique flavor of sexual evil. And yes, it is evil. They defile themselves and others with it, even going so far as to target children (with propaganda, if not worse).

That and that all these groups adhere to one another against the natural norms of humanity. Again, because they have a common enemy. Why is "Minor Attracted Persons" a term? Why are people seriously entertaining pedophilia as a sexual orientation? Why do you have videos like this defending pedophiles?

Because any degeneracy is ultimately good to the LGBT alliance, since it weakens the response of society against degeneracy in general.

You can say "I would never support real zoophilia", but you don't have to. Someone else will, once society is weak enough. Once they're used to "jokes" like this, and they're not jokes anymore.

 

[Harthwain]

Why are we in 2023 and AAA games still have NPC's standing around waiting for you to interact with them? I thought we were past this horseshit when we went from Morrowind -> Oblivion.

That's the fucking point of NPCs. They're there to give out quests, services and rewards. They don't buy the game and aren't playing it. They're fucking FURNITURE.

He doesn't want them to be. He wants an entirely different game, one where he can pretend they're real people because they have a schedule and piss themselves if they don't make it to the toilet on time.

You guys laugh, but having NPCs with agency perpetuating the in-game world is something that should be at the core of any true RPG. But that would require your game to be a simulation, not something that's entirely hand-crafted.

 

[Jermu]

I browsed through all the feats that are going to be in BG3 and 1 is easily the best one which is mandatory for all characters

Winning initiative equals to winning the battle
Not giving enemies surprise round equals to winning the battle
If you are convinced go play KOTC 1-2 and you will change your mind

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You guys laugh, but having NPCs with agency perpetuating the in-game world is something that should be at the core of any true RPG.

No. No, it shouldn't.

What is an RPG? There's a question that's been discussed to death. You can come up with any answer you want, but it still has to fit into the two words "Roleplaying Game".

Who is playing the role? You, and any other players. Not the NPCs. Not anyone else. That's the core gameplay.

The NPCs, as mondblut rightly said, are set pieces. They're there to facilitate your roleplaying in the story, not stroke your autism with simulated behaviors.

Most people, when they're playing a PnP RPG, do not ask the DM about one particular NPC and then proceed to follow them around town and make sure they have a full schedule.

Is it nice in a video game? Yes. Is it 'immersive'? If it isn't broken, sure. But it's not at the core of a Roleplaying Game. Roleplaying is.

It's amazing how low this site has sunk. Half the reason we were so well-known in the mid 2000s was because we hated Oblivion and how much it dumbed down the genre.

Now, there are people who long for it so much that when a completely unrelated game has a sequel, they're pining for it to be more like Oblivion. smh

You can have NPCs with agency in a story, but giving them actual independent programming is just needlessly complicating things when that isn't the point of the game.

 

[Kiste]

So if I play as a Gith and I romance Lae'zel, will the game accurately depict cloaka on cloaka sex?

Asking for a friend!

 

[Drakortha]

You guys laugh, but having NPCs with agency perpetuating the in-game world is something that should be at the core of any true RPG

Now, there are people who long for it so much that when a completely unrelated game has a sequel, they're pining for it to be more like Oblivion. smh

Why do you keep lying? I cited one feature from Oblivion. I don't want games to be more like Oblivion. I want games to innovate and evolve into something more than what we have now. These mainstream games have regressed so much we don't so much as have a Day / Night even as just a COSMETIC. But you keep handwaving it away while trying to argue semantics about "What is an RPG?"

These are computer games running on modern day hardware, get out of here with these bullshit excuses. The developers are lazy, pandering assholes, that's all there is to it. It's really that simple.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Why do you keep lying? I cited one feature from Oblivion.

And The Sims 2 of all games. You said BG3's AI is bad because it's not like The Sims 2.

These mainstream games have regressed so much we don't so much as have a Day / Night even as just a COSMETIC.

Legends say Dorkwratha is still out there, whining about day/night cycles. If you listen closely on a cool summer evening, ignoring the sounds of gay elf/bear sex in the distance, they say you can still hear him. "Modern hardware! Muh schedules!"

 

[Harthwain]

No. No, it shouldn't.

What is an RPG? There's a question that's been discussed to death. You can come up with any answer you want, but it still has to fit into the two words "Roleplaying Game".

Who is playing the role? You, and any other players. Not the NPCs. Not anyone else. That's the core gameplay.

NPCs can have goals and classes just like the players. What makes them different from the players is that they are NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS. Other than that they follow the same rules of the game (unless some modifications are applied by the GM). Congratulations on proving you have no idea what you're talking about, I guess.

Most people

Such tricks won't work on me. Tell me first where you get your data from when you're talking about "most people".

when they're playing a PnP RPG, do not ask the DM about one particular NPC and then proceed to follow them around town and make sure they have a full schedule. Is it nice in a video game? Yes. Is it 'immersive'? If it isn't broken, sure. But it's not at the core of a Roleplaying Game. Roleplaying is.

Looks like you're not aware that in a video game you can have simulated NPC behavior on top of that particular game also being an RPG. Same goes for a computer being able to do calculations for you, without you having to meticulously keep track of everything, which would slow down the combat immensely and is the main reason why some systems go for simplicity in this aspect.

It's amazing how low this site has sunk. Half the reason we were so well-known in the mid 2000s was because we hated Oblivion and how much it dumbed down the genre.

Joined: 6/11/2020

Now, there are people who long for it so much that when a completely unrelated game has a sequel, they're pining for it to be more like Oblivion. smh

You're obviously confusing NPCs having fixed schedules with NPCs having an agency and being able to act on their own, therefore creating different circumstances in context of the player's actions. But I am not surprised you fail to see the enormous gameplay potential in this, considering how fixated you are on "A STORY"...

You can have NPCs with agency in a story, but giving them actual independent programming is just needlessly complicating things when that isn't the point of the game.

Only if you're a storyfag. One who doesn't get the meaning of an RPG, on top of that.

While I can appreciate a good story, I refuse the claim that you need an RPG to be tied down to a hand-crafted narrative. At least not in the extremely linear style we get so much of. If you look at tabletop, where the GM wants the players to follow a specific story, it still allows for a lot of wiggle room by having moving parts. Players can do what they want AND they can do so in accordance to their abilities (or in spite of them) without being arbitrarily hamstrung by a limited foresight of a game developer.

 

[Drakortha]

Why do you keep lying? I cited one feature from Oblivion.

And The Sims 2 of all games. You said BG3's AI is bad because it's not like The Sims 2.

These mainstream games have regressed so much we don't so much as have a Day / Night even as just a COSMETIC.

Legends say Dorkwratha is still out there, whining about day/night cycles. If you listen closely on a cool summer evening, ignoring the sounds of gay elf/bear sex in the distance, they say you can still hear him.

Sims 2 has better AI than 99% of RPG's and it came out in 2004. Baldur's Gate 3 has worse AI than Oblivion (ie, none at all outside of combat). That doesn't mean I want BG3 to be Sims 2 or Oblivion. But it's the year 2023 and there's 8 core 4Ghz processors and graphics cards with 12gb video ram.

Can you come up with a good reason why games are regressing into interactive movies? Or are you going to keep extrapolating my criticisms and trying to start semantic arguments like "what is an RPG?" which is a ludicrous argument by itself and it's even more so when we're talking about computer video games where the hardware has improved 100x over, yet we can't make the Sun and Moon move around in the sky a bit, and shuffle some NPC's around to give some life to the world, because it's too much crunch for the poor devs. Get me a fucking tissue, I'm going to shed a tear.

 

[Steezus]

Ayioooo, the two autismo lords are fighting each other now.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

NPCs can have goals and classes just like the players.

In a story. It's not necessary for them to be run by an AI to do that. And having such autonomy would likely ruin most narratives.

Such tricks won't work on me. Tell me first where you get your data from when you're talking about "most people".

Because I think you're some kind of autistic sped who will say "nuh uh! I do! I pester my DM to let me stalk random NPCs to make sure he wrote a schedule for them!"

Looks like you're not aware that in a video game you can have simulated NPC behavior

Again, not core gameplay.

Joined: 6/11/2020

Not my first account. Been here quite some time.

You're obviously confusing NPCs having fixed schedules with NPCs having an agency

I think you mean having agency.

Regardless, no, that's you confusing the two. Since games like Oblivion pretend to give NPCs agency, but are mostly schedules and timers that run in the background.

But I am not surprised you fail to see the enormous gameplay potential in this, considering how fixated you are on "A STORY"...

Once again, you don't even want to play an RPG, much less a Baldur's Gate game. You want to play Oblivion or a similar game. You want a roguelike or a walking simulator where you can larp that you're in another world.

While I can appreciate a good story, I refuse the claim that you need an RPG to be tied down to a hand-crafted narrative.

You're inversing the claims here. I didn't claim an RPG needs a handcrafted narrative. I said that roleplaying was the core, not simulationism. And that if you have a narrative that you want to tell, an unnecessary AI like you're proposing would probably just get in the way.

You, otoh, said that the core of "any true RPG" should be AI NPCs with agency. But the core of any RPG has to be roleplaying, and that doesn't require advanced AI at all. For proof of this, see every RPG ever.

 

[Orud]

Less than 2 weeks until we can actually play the full game to see if it's shit or not.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Sims 2 has better AI than 99% of RPG's and it came out in 2004.

 

[Kiste]

Sims 2 has better AI than 99% of RPG's and it came out in 2004. Baldur's Gate 3 has worse AI than Oblivion (ie, none at all outside of combat) It's the year 2023 and most people have 8 core 4Ghz processors and graphics cards with 12gb video ram.

Yeah, bullshit. I doubt Sims 2 has better combat AI than BG3. It doesn't even have combat, so there is that. Oblivion's combat AI, which is retarded, by the way, couldn't do anything the BG3 combat AI does, since it wasn't built for turn-based DnD 5E combat.

It would be extremely silly to now claim that those games have "bad AI" compared to BG3, wouldn't it? Yet, this is exactly what you're doing, just the other way round. You're claiming that the absence of a feature (NPC daily routines) is "bad AI". That's like whining about Sims 2 not having a combat system. Jesus fucking Christ, you're stupid.

Can you come up with a good reason why games are regressing into interactive movies?

BG2 was, in terms of story, an interactive novel / audio book. A bigger budget and more powerful computers merely enable that you can turn it into an interactive tv show. Fundametally, it's still the same thing. Dialogue and story were as significant in BG2 as they are now in BG3, all that has changed is the mode of presentation. Why do you think this is "regression"? BG3 does not offer less interaction in its dialogues compared to BG2. It offers more. More of everything, i.e. more choice and consequences, more reactivity and more skill checks.

Both games are storyfag games and nobody needs a fucking simulationist approach to those game worlds because that's not what they're about. You don't need to incorporate fucking Sims 2 aspects into BG3 for the sake of "progress" and "innovation", you god damn fucking retard.

 

[Harthwain]

In a story. It's not necessary for them to be run by an AI to do that. And having such autonomy would likely ruin most narratives.

It largely depends on the structure of the game. You could make some quests exclusive to the player OR make the goal of the quest to be more open ("Find X item", for example). The narrative can be ruined mostly when it's too rigid, not when it is flexible. You can also implement certain fail-safes.

Because I think you're some kind of autistic sped who will say

I don't care what you think about me, nor is it relevant. If you say "most", you ought to have something to back it up with. Otherwise it's meaningless to use such terms.

Again, not core gameplay.

Anything that influences role-playing is core gameplay.

Not my first account. Been here quite some time.

And you had to make another account? Interesting.

Regardless, no, that's you confusing the two. Since games like Oblivion pretend to give NPCs agency, but are mostly schedules and timers that run in the background.

You're the one who keeps talking about Oblivon, not me. I, for certain, am not talking just about schedules or timers. Sure, these things could be used to give AN ILLUSION of agency (like in Baldur's Gate), but that's not what I am talking about.

Once again, you don't even want to play an RPG, much less a Baldur's Gate game. You want to play Oblivion or a similar game. You want a roguelike or a walking simulator where you can larp that you're in another world.

Again mentioning Oblivion on your own. Telling. The rest I am not even going to comment on because of how dumb it is ("a walking simulator"? WTF? Some great simulations are top-down. Are you confusing the word "simulation" with "simulator"?).

You, otoh, said that the core of "any true RPG" should be AI NPCs with agency. But the core of any RPG has to be roleplaying, and that doesn't require AI at all. For proof of this, see every CRPG ever.

You fail to see the point. Yes, you can have an RPG where NPCs are dumb. Yes, we can see this is almost every RPG ever. That's hardly an incline though.

However, it is possible to have NPCs with agency and it would greatly benefit the role-playing aspect of an RPG by providing much more opportunities and scenarios entirely on its own, because you wouldn't need the GM to do all these interactions by hand: they would happen on their own. Hence me talking about "any true RPG". Of course it would be much more complex than just hand-crafting everything in accordance to a linear story, but it's technically possible. All the player really needs is a goal.

Now, which approach is closer to a true tabletop experience? That's the difference between you and me.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Ayioooo, the two autismo lords are fighting each other now.

I haven't laughed like that in a while. This thread is excellent. We had a girl fight on the internet. Hilarious. Next we have stuck up forever-virgin edgelords LARPing as moralist crusaders on the Internet. Protip: if anyone wants to fight wokeism all he has to do is start getting his ass up from the device more often, finding a wife and raising children. But it's always more attractive to larp as the knight fighting grand battles against evil. It was the same temptation that brought about woketards too after all.

 

[Drakortha]

Sims 2 has better AI than 99% of RPG's and it came out in 2004. Baldur's Gate 3 has worse AI than Oblivion (ie, none at all outside of combat) It's the year 2023 and most people have 8 core 4Ghz processors and graphics cards with 12gb video ram.

Yeah, bullshit. I doubt Sims 2 has better combat AI than BG3. It doesn't even have combat, so there is that. Oblivion's combat AI, which is retarded, by the way, couldn't do anything the BG3 combat AI does, since it wasn't built for turn-based DnD 5E combat.

It would be extremely silly to now claim that those games have "bad AI" compared to BG3, wouldn't it? Yet, this is exactly what you're doing, just the other way round. You're claiming that the absence of a feature (NPC daily routines) is "bad AI". That's like whining about Sims 2 not having a combat system. Jesus fucking Christ, you're stupid.

Can you come up with a good reason why games are regressing into interactive movies?

BG2 was, in terms of story, an interactive novel / audio book. A bigger budget and more powerful computers merely enable that you can turn it into an interactive tv show. Fundametally, it's still the same thing. Dialogue and story were as significant in BG2 as they are now in BG3, all that has changed is the mode of presentation. Why do you think this is "regression"? BG3 does not offer less interaction in its dialogues compared to BG2. It offers more. More of everything, i.e. more choice and consequences, more reactivity and more skill checks.

Both games are storyfag games and nobody needs a fucking simulationist approach to those game worlds because that's not what they're about. You don't need to incorporate fucking Sims 2 aspects into BG3 for the sake of "progress" and "innovation", you god damn fucking retard.

BG3 is a 2023 computer game. The Sims 2 and Oblivion came out in 2004 and 2006 respectively. That's almost 20 years ago if you're this fucking shit at maths.

So why can't BG3 (and video games as a whole) push the envelope and evolve? Larian claim to be doing so in all the marketing. Shill journalists everywhere are calling BG3 the spearhead of an RPG renaissance while citing "Larian's Pedigree", but I don't buy it for one second because as soon as you look at this game with a critical eye it falls apart. Original Sin 2 was nothing revolutionary, and BG3 is shaping up to be the exact same thing, only they've added "muh cinematic dialogue" to pull in the normie masses, which it has done successfully. Bravo, have a medal and a cookie. Good sales is not indicative of quality.

Do you believe BG3 is spearheading an RPG renaissance? Do you believe Larian has pedigree? Honestly, I'm asking if these are statements you actually believe. I want to know how retarded you are so I can know if it's even worth my time responding to you.

 

[Volourn]

"Personally I think these tadpoles are meant to subjugate the above ground people into spreading the cult of the Absolute, the Absolute being Lolth that Is trying to become a full fledged goddess outside of her Underdark and drowish niche by cooperating with, or using, the Mind Flayers, but my knowledge of the FR lore Is very limited so it's all speculation based on tidbits of stuff I've read"

WTF are you spamming"? Unless they changed something - which is possible - Lloth is a full fledge goddess. She's an Intermediate Goddess. In fact, she's one of the few non greater gods that technically 'leads' (term is loose when discussing drow pantheon lol) an entire pantheon. Of course, she doesn't have many followers on the surface for obvious fukkin' reasons but it doesn't change the status of her godhood since she has a lot of fukkin' followers. FFS


"IT'S NOT REALLY A BEAR IT'S ACTUALLY A DRUID"

"IT'S NOT REALLY A CHILD IT'S ACTUALLY A SHAPECHANGING MAGE"

L0LZ


"given your alternative is raping a child"

Where did you get 'rape' from? The shapechanging mage would be as willing for sex as the shapechanging druid. Perhaps, YOU are the rapist as that's the only way you can get sex. SICKO.


"You loved that shit in old bioware games."

Dude. the game that put BIO on the map had fukkin' zero player romances. HOLY FUKK NUTZ. They never needed that shit. Im not anti romance like some are, but stop the bullshitz.


"BG2 adds one skippable area, the Sahuagin city, and lets the player chose how to get to the Asylum, but ftmp leads the player down a linear path they have little choice on. Whereas BG3 still retains some linearity"

BG2 also lets you decide between rogues vs vampires. Rather major choice and dangerous too if you aren't prepared for vampires BECAUSE THE GAME HAS A DAY/NIGHT CYCLE. LOL

Also, both BGs let you skip A LOT OF FUKKIN' CONTENT IF YOU SO WISH (but why would you?).

The edge BG3 has is more skill/stat/race/class checks supposedly. Which is absolutely a plus. Sadly, the writing is just eck.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I don't care what you think about me, nor is it relevant. If you say "most", you ought to have something to back it up with. Otherwise it's meaningless to use such terms.

So, in order to believe that most people don't demand their DM show the schedules of random NPCs in PnP, you require proof? Ok.

Anything that influences role-playing is core gameplay.

And I'm sure you think NPC schedules do that, since you just want to larp in a walking sim.

You're the one who keeps talking about Oblivon, not me. I, for certain, am not talking just about schedules or timers. Sure, these things could be used to give AN ILLUSION of agency (like in Baldur's Gate), but that's not what I am talking about.

So you want an AI to make real, thinking characters and not the illusion of them, and to have that for every NPC in the game.

Good luck with that. I encourage you to build it instead of arguing online.

Again mentioning Oblivion on your own. Telling.

You joined a conversation between two people talking about Oblivion and The Sims 2, one of whom was saying BG3 is a poor game for not having the AI of either.

The rest I am not even going to comment on because of how dumb it is ("a walking simulator"? WTF? Some great simulations are top-down. Are you confusing the word "simulation" with "simulator"?).

It's a common term to refer to Oblivion-like games on this site and others.

You fail to see the point. Yes, you can have an RPG where NPCs are dumb. Yes, we can see this is almost every RPG ever.

Then you admit that it's not at the core of a true RPG.

I'm glad we could come to an agreement.

Now, which approach is closer to a true tabletop experience? That's the difference between you and me.

Given that you seem to think a true tabletop experience involves pestering the DM to prove he's made schedules for random NPCs, I don't think either of us is advocating the true tabletop experience of having a DM TPK you and never invite you again.

 

[Drakortha]

The Larian fags are the ones who keep bringing up Sims 2 and Oblivion for the same reason they bring up donkey fucking in Divine Divinity or some of the shit that went on in BG1 & BG2. They cannot cope with how fucking shit BG3 is turning out to be so they have to resort to shitting on 20+ year old games to help them cope. Similar to how Hollywood programs their consumers through social media to shit on old classic movies just in time for their shitty remakes. It's all about optics and perspective to them, not about integrity or creating a better, innovative product. So long as it gets lots of sales they'll do a little dance and think they've won. The truth is we all lose.

 

[Kiste]

BG3 is a 2023 computer game. The Sims 2 and Oblivion came out in 2004 and 2006 respectively. That's almost 20 years if you're this fucking shit at maths.

So why can't BG3 (and video games as a whole) push the envelope and evolve? Larian claim to be doing so in all the marketing.

BG3 pushes the envelope when it comes to story choice und reactivity, which is much more relevant for the type of game it tries to be.

Is it too hard for your tards to understand that not every game has to do everything and not every game has to cater to your personal fucking preferences? Want to play some sort of world simulation shit with NPCs that go to sleep and eat and wander about? Play some fucking Bethesda game. Don't come into threads about storyfag or combatfag games and complain about missing NPC schedules and a lack of AI generated bullshit, for fucks sake.

 

[Drakortha]

BG3 pushes the envelope when it comes to story choice und reactivity, which is much more relevant for the type of game it tries to be.

Does it really?

How many times have we heard all this before? BG3's marketing is a repeat of The Outer Worlds marketing. Exactly the same hype and word-jargon used by journalists. Only back then it was Obsidian Pedigree from the creators of Fallout: New Vegas. "You remember the choices and reactivity in that game, don't you?" is how I remember the marketing for that shit game. Did Outer Worlds have choices and reactivity? Yes. Did that make it a great game? FUCK NO.

They said the same about Dying Light 2, too, after they brought Chris Avellone on board. Choice and Reactivity! Consequences! Like that's the only fucking thing that matters. Well I guess it does, since it's all they need to say to get fags like you excited. They could sell you anything so long as it promises the choice to be a FAGGOT!