Preview Baldur's Gate 3 Gameplay at D&D Live 2020

[underground nymph]

Then what made Bladur's Gate 2 Baldur's Gate 2?

romancing options

 

[Wizfall]

Does not look, feel, sound and play at all like a Baldur's game.
Very disappointing to rape such a glorious "brand",it's all i'm gonna say.

 

[Roguey]

Then what made Bladur's Gate 2 Baldur's Gate 2?

It continued the story of the Bhaalspawn, whose story came to a definitive end in Throne of Bhaal.

The concept of Baldur's Gate predates Bhaalspawny, so it seems odd to me to forever link the two.

 

[Plane Escapee]

Well, let me contrast that exceedingly unnecessarily dramatic and empty-rhetoric-filled post of yours, Plane Escapee, with what might be a bit of a surprise to some by throwing some well-deserved praise at Swen instead.

That sounds about right. I thought it was pretty transparently a gut reaction but if my offering of empty rhetoric helped you to be more hopeful for the game after all I'm glad for you and hope that it is not a catalyst for even greater disappointment.

We're clearly not looking for the same game. I'm looking for something that feels like a continuation of Baldur's Gate and you're looking forward to a more thorough implementation of tabletop mechanics. I feel that I'm already getting the latter elsewhere and have been missing the former for two decades.

 

[Dungeon Lord]

I feel sick after watching the first 15 minutes.

 

[AwesomeButton]

As long as people are still impressed by the ability of their character to move boxes, RPG developers like Larian can feel safe about the future.

 

[Murk]

Then what made Bladur's Gate 2 Baldur's Gate 2?

It continued the story of the Bhaalspawn, whose story came to a definitive end in Throne of Bhaal.

The concept of Baldur's Gate predates Bhaalspawny, so it seems odd to me to forever link the two.

It's just WotC using brand recognition of what is really just "new D&D game". In the long ass shitpit that is the general thread in GRPG, early on I said something like "yes I'd prefer it not be named BG 3 and just be some other D&D title but I'll take the game with a bad title over no game". Same now.

 

[Glop_dweller]

This was a feature of Lands Of Lore 2; done in a 2D.5 engine back in 1997.

 

[Crispy]

I'm never going to live the boxes comment down, am I?

 

[Roguey]

Comments time:

With third person exploration, Swen really needs to consider adding wasd controls for movement. Watching him click to move in that mode looked obnoxious.

Sound effects and combat animations sill looking incredibly D:OS. He could consider changing that to make it feel more Baldur's Gate.

Having to choose whether to dash or walk normally seems like it might be a pain, hopefully there's a convenient hot key for it.

Putting the text in the world itself makes it difficult to read at times. Really needs some kind of background, even Dragon Commander had this.

Everyone has Dragon Age: Origins hands; huge so they look right in isometric mode, but absurd in the cinematic dialogues.

Pandering to foot fetishists, tsk. Yeah "a funny joke," sure.

Characters moving around in the background of cinematic dialogues where your character remains deadly still looks silly. Consider having some kind of breathing motion there if possible.

I do like how the sneaking animations aren't a crouch-walk, going against the grain.

Deus Ex-esque box stacking to get to higher places is welcome.

The animation attached to the call for help script is also neat.


Anyway, I liked what I saw, criticisms notwithstanding.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm never going to live the boxes comment down, am I?

In a subsequent paragraph you describe how, as you are playing a cRPG, you are roleplaying the experience of playing a PnP roleplaying game.

 

[Invictus]

Does not look, feel, sound and play at all like a Baldur's game.
Very disappointing to rape such a glorious "brand",it's all i'm gonna say.

It’s not supposed to; look at Pillars of Eternity people say they wanted that old school Black Isle feel and they ended up remember they didn’t like Rtwp
Other than taking place in the city of Baldur’s Gate, using D&D and probably some inevitable Baal reference this game its it own thing

You are the textbook example of some edgy wannabe who cannot appreciate something for what it is rather than what they think it should be

An as for Baldur’s Gate beign a “brand” its been dead as death (with Beamdog playing footsie with their corpse) for the last 20 years so cut off the theatrical milenial angst, they are trying to do their own thing and revive D&D for fuck sake

 

[Glop_dweller]

Everyone has Dragon Age: Origins hands; huge so they look right in isometric mode, but absurd in the cinematic dialogues.

This could be fixed with a scale animation; played for the conversation.

It’s not supposed to...

Yes it's supposed to, it's Baldur's Gate #3.

...look at Pillars of Eternity people say they wanted that old school Black Isle feel and they ended up remember they didn’t like Rtwp
Other than taking place in the city of Baldur’s Gate, using D&D and probably some inevitable Baal reference this game its it own thing.

Pillars is not a BG sequel. This is different, this is branding an unrelated game with the series' name.
IE. It's label is descriptive of something it doesn't provide; you don't get the series' experience & gameplay from this title, despite its name implying what to expect.

You are the textbook example of some edgy wannabe who cannot appreciate something for what it is rather than what they think it should be

When I buy something by name, I neither expect nor want something different than described on the label—if it's the wrong item it doesn't matter how good it is; it's not what I ordered.

When you buy a tub of sour-cream... who thinks ice cream is a welcome substitute? That's not what it said, and is not what was wanted; not why it was purchased.

An as for Baldur’s Gate beign a “brand” its been dead as death (with Beamdog playing footsie with their corpse) for the last 20 years so cut off the theatrical milenial angst, they are trying to do their own thing and revive D&D for fuck sake

This is another case "if you cannot (or will not) do it right, then don't do it at all". If BG3 cannot succeed in the market with the series gameplay, then there should be no BG3—because what they'd make wouldn't be BG3 anyway.

I watched the video, and the game looks impressive —and fun—to me, but not a single thing in it reminds me of the Baldur's Gate series, and while it remains to be seen, I do doubt that they put the kind of scripted anticipation of player choice and the tailored results that made the originals so impressive. That's part of the reputation & gaming experience implied by the name.

When I said it seemed like a Dragon Age clone, this was part of what I meant.

For those who don't know (or don't remember) the first two games, and don't understand what the fuss is about... Here is something to give you a clear base for comparison with Swen's gameplay video:

Spoiler

This is very in depth; with spoilers, and a bit of adult language.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I see the verticality and different camera angle as an improvement, in that they make the experience closer to PnP than a 2D isometric game could.

The transfer from BGII to BGIII is from a computer game based on a PnP experience, which tries to translate the PnP experience to the PC platform, to a computer game that attempts to faithfully imitate PnP on a PC, not translate it. So far it looks like the old school should be happy.

However, this faitfully imitated PnP comes with the drawback of its childish style, and the old-schoolers are now 20 years older. I'm not saying go full edgy TLOU2 mode, but those goblins reminded me of children's puppet theatre. So, it's like playing PnP in a session with children 20 years younger than me, if not 30.

But this drawback comes with the change of perspective, with 3D, full VO (without the main character) and all those changes. Because as I've been explaining, everything has to shift to more storytelling-less game, inlcluding D&D. That's the trend of making it "accessible" and it's also helped by the tech advances - the more means you have to add expressiveness to the environment and characters, the more tempted you are to concentrate on the game as a narrative as opposed to the game as a problem-solving/overcoming exercise.

Is it going to be worth buying - yes, if you are ok with this small text. Also, if Larian has finally made a game which is worth playing beyond the Early Access area.

 

[Fenix]

I feel sick after watching the first 15 minutes.

And I didn't watch it at all - can recommend it as best approach.

Pandering to foot fetishists, tsk. Yeah "a funny joke," sure.

Really? Looks like I was right no watching this.
I guess, that's a level of Larian's writers, and them bringing personal experience of their life.
At least not necrophilia, right?

 

[Dr Schultz]

Well, let me contrast that exceedingly unnecessarily dramatic and empty-rhetoric-filled post of yours, Plane Escapee, with what might be a bit of a surprise to some by throwing some well-deserved praise at Swen instead.

In the main BG3 thread I came to the initial conclusion that this game looked like shit. I stand by that conclusion made at the time, but after allowing myself to be a little more open-minded and patient with this newest glimpse of the game, I now would like to officially reverse course: I was wrong.

There is something very interesting going on with Larian and Baldur's Gate 3, something that could actually wind up being special. I know it's still early, and many mistakes could still and certainly will still be made in its development, but even at this pre-alpha stage I can see what it is I'm referring to: the merger of what Larian has done with D:OS 2 and a Dungeons and Dragons game is actually... working. What?

Yes, that's right. Even the previously-silly mechanic of, for example, moving boxes around with your telepathic abilities in DOS:2 makes much more sense in this game. As the video showed, sometimes characters may need to improvise to reach some ledge and that's the kind of thing we've (or at least I've) always sort of wished computer D&D simulators could do. Finally we can climb walls, attempt things like jumping chasms (I'm assuming the mechanics of jumping illustrated so far are at least mostly in-line with the official D&D rules -- I'm trusting Swen not to venture too far out of the rulebook on these things) and other feats simply not possible given previous games' engines' limitations.

Other things that seem to mesh well with what D:OS 2 was doing and what this game is offering include the reactivity of surfaces or materials or objects with elements such as fire. D:OS 1 was heavily criticized for relying way too much on those water puddles and spells to make us feel clever when we electrocuted enemies. It was bland and trite and stupid back then. But D:OS 2 got a little better at it and now, with BG3, it all seems to make sense. I hope I'm not wrong about this, as I hate clever little tricks like that in what I consider to be "serious" roleplaying games, but unless I'm crazy, it seems like Swen is taking these things a little more seriously now?

Yes, there's still some wonkiness going on. Some of the acting and animations might be a little over the top. But I can handle a little of that. It's what I'd interpret as the DM waving his arms around and mimicking what he'd think the NPC or creature in question might sound like. Sure, okay, make me smirk a little with your British-sounding goblins, as long as you're not taking too much creative license with my precious nerdy D&D lore we'll be fine..

As has already been mentioned, the verticality and adaptability in combat looks quite delicious. The size even of the demo shown is impressive. The advice to explore everything to be rewarded is inciting. This game just looks, already, like it's asking me to play it.

Again, I sure hope I'm not wrong.

But, for now, Swen, if you happen to read this, I take it back. Don't fuck this up. You won me back, for now, and you could be on to something here.

Usually I hate it when I'm wrong, but not this time.

I hope you don't mind if I use your post to highlight a common misconception, or rather something that many codexians seem unable to get despite years of experience with CRPGs: Tabletop RPGs are sandbox games, inherently multiplayer and narrarive focused, and NO ONE has ever been more faithful than Larian in adapting this formula to the videgame medium.

The "silly" systemic interactions, the cheesy tactics, the coop multiplayer, the incentives to keep playing whatever happens, these are not deviations for a purer form of CRPGs: these are essential ingredients of a tabletop session.

Using D&D 5e, which is definitely a solid ruleset, will probably benefit the game A LOT in various fronts, but D:OS I & II have already done the heavy lifting in terms of design choices and technology needed to bring a tabletop session to life in a videogame environment.

People who don't like Larian RPGs, probably, should make peace with the idea that they don't like RPGs that much. They like videogames that aim to replicate a peculiar aspect of tabletop RPGs but not the whole experience.

 

[Fenix]

What actually concern me is not BG3 not being like BG2 in it's look, not the lack of inherited appearance, no.
But the lack of these features themselfs - you know, they had gameplay meaning?
Didn't you forget about that guys?
First is combination of portrait+"isometric" bird view - you know, aestetically PORTRAIT is different than seeing animated mug. Portrait tries to transfer an ESSENCE of charater. An ESSENCE, and could you decant the ESSENCE of character though their animated faces? It's much harder to transfer via animated mug.
And characters being so small from bird view allow to imagine them like you want, also we had paperdoll to support it.
Now we see instead animated bodies in great details - and you know what?
Now it's all about if artist having tastes in astetic that could please me, but too often modern ideas and tastes about aesthetics are atroucious.
Like if the idea of beauty was viciously mutilated somewhen during artists learning their trade.
Looking at the modern world that is antithesis of Beauty at West it probably was.

And what about game flow? In isometric games content is tightly packed, in 3D - diluted with WALKING and like walking anf like looking for small items under tables etc.

So things I concerned is not that BG3 not looking like BG2 - but it not HAVING the same game features, cause I think isometric view is the best for RPG.

 

[AwesomeButton]

inherently multiplayer and narrarive focused,

Not "and". Around the table with some friends, you can make it combat focused if you want, and you have ultimately control over the tone. This is what you can't really achieve in a cRPG unless you make a module of your own.

 

[Dr Schultz]

inherently multiplayer and narrarive focused,

Not "and". Around the table with some friends, you can make it combat focused if you want, and you have ultimately control over the tone. This is what you can't really achieve in a cRPG unless you make a module of your own.

"You", as a single entity, don't have control on anything. The tone and gameplay loop of a session naturally emerges by the interaction of 2 people minimun, usually 5 or more. No one is really in control. Not even the master.

Aside for that, the tools to make a session narrative heavy, combat heavy, exploration heavy, dumb, serious, scarry, whatever you want, are always there, and you as a player are free to use said tools as you like.

Larian is the developer that, more than any other developer in the history of this medium, has made a point of giving players (plural, which is hugely important) as many tools as possible in order to replicate as closely as possible the open ended nature of tabletop rpgs.

An RPG entusiast should undestand at least this. Even if he doesn't like the end result (which is legit, of course)

 

[AwesomeButton]

"You", as a single entity, don't have control on anything.

Reading comprehension fail.

What did I write: "Around the table with some friends, you can make it combat focused if you want, and you have ultimately control over the tone."

Anyone sane would assume this is a plural "you", not singular.

 

[Dr Schultz]

"You", as a single entity, don't have control on anything.

Reading comprehension fail.

What did I write: "Around the table with some friends, you can make it combat focused if you want, and you have ultimately control over the tone."

Anyone sane would assume this is a plural "you", not singular.

If this "you" is a plural "you" (and it wasn't in your period) I can't see why your post was needed in the first place.
D:OS 2 has a DM mode. You can make your own adventures and play them with a group of players with the same taste.

Tabletop Rpgs are still narrarive multiplayer games (the ultimate goal of every system is always telling a story cooperatively, even if is an action packed story) and D:OS is still the most faithful videogame adaptation of a tabletop rpg. And codexians should really make peace with this idea, which was the whole point of my post

 

[AwesomeButton]

D:OS 2 has a DM mode. You can make your own adventures and play them with a group of players with the same taste.

Thank you, capt. This is what I said myself in the same post you quoted, but who's reading, right.

 

[Dr Schultz]

D:OS 2 has a DM mode. You can make your own adventures and play them with a group of players with the same taste.

Thank you, capt. This is what I said myself in the same post you quoted, but who's reading, right.

Yes, again, a what the post I've quoted was needed for? It added absolutely nothing to my oringial post... Speaking of comprension failures

 

[Roguey]

However, this faitfully imitated PnP comes with the drawback of its childish style, and the old-schoolers are now 20 years older. I'm not saying go full edgy TLOU2 mode, but those goblins reminded me of children's puppet theatre. So, it's like playing PnP in a session with children 20 years younger than me, if not 30.

Given the negative reaction to the dour grimness of Pillars of Eternity, I'd say the whimsy of Baldur's Gate is an essential element.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Looks fun. I will play it and type out my experience here, to get 20 enjoyable pages of salty oldfags telling me how wrong I am for liking something new.