Game News Baldur's Gate 3 now available on Early Access

[Tacgnol]

This game is not a continuation of the franchise no matter what they say. Period.

Good. rtwp needs to go.

I had to brofist oneself. Now I feel dirty.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Good thing, considering that "exploring" in the I. E. games essentially mean clearing the black spots of small (and occasionally beautiful) 2d paintings.

Still better than "exploring" in DOS which just means going through linear corridors.

Not sure which D:OS are you talking about, but the ones I've played have an handful of huge maps (compared to the ones of the I.E. games) with lots of verticality, hidden stuff and interactive objects (and I mean, systemic interactions).
Not sure either in what universe this could be considered worse than what you had in the I.E. games...
Not in my universe. Of THIS at least I'm sure...

 

[Galdred]

Some people need to learn how Early Access works, at least for Larian. If D:OS EA is anything to go by, what we're seeing now is veeeery different from the final product. And most people treat it like it's a full release :smh:.

Didn't they sidestep all complains about initiative and armor telling that it was grognard ramble or something?
I am surprised that they were not changed during Early Access.

 

[V_K]

handful of huge maps

Which are split into tiny areas that are impossible to access out of order because of impassable obstacles.

lots of verticality

Which has only been introduced in DOS2 and is only meaningful for combat.

hidden stuff

Which amounts to procedurally generated loot. Super exciting.

interactive objects

90% of which are oil or poison barrels whose existence in those locations makes zero sense.

IE exploration is absolutely terrible, don't get me wrong - but at least it exists, while DOS games are just as on-rails as modern cinematic shooters.

 

[Dr Schultz]

handful of huge maps

Which are split into tiny areas that are impossible to access out of order because of impassable obstacles.

lots of verticality

Which has only been introduced in DOS2 and is only meaningful for combat.

hidden stuff

Which amounts to procedurally generated loot. Super exciting.

interactive objects

90% of which are oil or poison barrels whose existence in those locations makes zero sense.

IE exploration is absolutely terrible, don't get me wrong - but at least it exists, while DOS games are just as on-rails as modern cinematic shooters.

Again, man: I don't know which game(s) have you played, but they are not D:OS I and II.
Past the tutorial, the only (soft) gates you have inside a map of both games are the mobs. Aside for them, you can break the intended progressions in an infinity of ways, you can interact with basically any object of the game world and you can find multiple ways to get everywhere you want, via stealth, spell or simply by looking around.

The only point in your post that has something in common with the reality of DOS I and II is the one about the loot, awful generic as in all other Larian's games. This, though, has nothing to do with the exploration per sé and is not pertinent with BG3, which thankfully changed loot model altogether.

The rest of your post is simply false. It's not a matter of opinions: There are facts and there are your ideas about these games, and they are incompatible.

 

[Elex]

Akin to the Total War series, this literal reskin should've been called Original Sin: Baldur's Gate

The Total war warhammer games are the best fantasy warhammer games and the best total war games at the same time.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Akin to the Total War series, this literal reskin should've been called Original Sin: Baldur's Gate

The Total war warhammer games are the best fantasy warhammer games and the best total war games at the same time.

The last one I played was Shogun II. Are they really that good?

 

[Tyrr]

Akin to the Total War series, this literal reskin should've been called Original Sin: Baldur's Gate

The Total war warhammer games are the best fantasy warhammer games and the best total war games at the same time.

The last one I played was Shogun II. Are they really that good?

TW:Warhammer ruined historical TW games for me. Together with the fact that CA got very lazy with their historical games.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Akin to the Total War series, this literal reskin should've been called Original Sin: Baldur's Gate

The Total war warhammer games are the best fantasy warhammer games and the best total war games at the same time.

The last one I played was Shogun II. Are they really that good?

TW:Warhammer ruined historical TW games for me. Together with the fact that CA got very lazy with their historical games.

You both intrigued me... I stopped playing Total War after Shogun II because, well, I became too good at it. The A.I. kept failing for the same tricks over and over no mater the difficulty level bored me in the long run. Maybe it's time to give CA another chance...

 

[Immortal]

This game is essentially Divinity Original Sin 2 in Faerun.
The graphics are slightly better on a technical level.. but the world / area design is a carbon copy of DOS2 ..

Wide open area that you explode from bottom left to top right.. There doesn't appear to be any world map or region wide exploration.
Waypoints let you zip about ala braccus statues. Ect..

I was sorta hoping to See Larians spin on a Baldurs Gate styled game (minus the RTWP) and explore sprawling villages or hoof it in wide open fields.
Also large parts of the map feel just empty.

Still more fun than PoE 1.

Good thing, considering that "exploring" in the I. E. games essentially mean clearing the black spots of small (and occasionally beautiful) 2d paintings. Not exactly thrilling gameplay...

Mehhh.. BG1 Wilderness areas were notorious for this.. but they still felt immersive in a way.. what's the chances of you finding something eye shocking amazing every 10 feet?
You'd sometimes just be occasionally attacked by a retardo gibberling or wolf.. Which made coming to a bandit attacked caravan or finding a wizard tower all the more interesting.

Also BG1 basically hid story hooks in the world. You could actually visit areas way beyond your level, or do things out of order if you knew where to look.

Call me a storyfag or immersionfag but having a wide open realm to explore felt good.

DOS2 feels so much more formulaic .. Your walking from Left Bottom corner to Top Right corner.. you can fork here and there.. but there's no sense of exploration.. you never really "miss" anything or feel out of your element like "Wow this forest is getting kinda shitty, better head back to Friendly Arm Inn"

I guess for a bunch of disgruntled veterans who can solo BG1 in a hour with a single character these experiences don't exist anymore.. but that was my initial feeling with BG1 and I was hoping for a turn based version of that.


(still better than PoE 1 though)

 

[Grotesque]

Must buy for me.

must pirate for me

We already did get a proper Baldur's Gate sequel. It's called Baldur's Gate 2.

It would've been proper if it had the open world feel and the free exploring of the first.

Good thing, considering that "exploring" in the I. E. games essentially mean clearing the black spots of small (and occasionally beautiful) 2d paintings. Not exactly thrilling gameplay...

that's not gameplay.
or it can be for retarded autists such yourself.
and it is thrilling seeing map features and point of interests being discovered with each step.


If someone wants the true feel of exploration in their game, "shroud of war" is mandatory.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Mehhh.. BG1 Wilderness areas were notorious for this.. but they still felt immersive in a way.. what's the chances of you finding something eye shocking amazing every 10 feet?
You'd sometimes just be occasionally attacked by a retardo gibberling or wolf.. Which made coming to a bandit attacked caravan or finding a wizard tower all the more interesting.

Also BG1 basically hid story hooks in the world. You could actually visit areas way beyond your level, or do things out of order if you knew where to look.

Call me a storyfag or immersionfag but having a wide open realm to explore felt good.

DOS2 feels so much more formulaic .. Your walking from Left Bottom corner to Top Right corner.. you can fork here and there.. but there's no sense of exploration.. you never really "miss" anything or feel out of your element like "Wow this forest is getting kinda shitty, better head back to Friendly Arm Inn"

I guess for a bunch of disgruntled veterans who can solo BG1 in a hour with a single character these experiences don't exist anymore.. but that was my initial feeling with BG1 and I was hoping for a turn based version of that.


(still better than PoE 1 though)

I'm not denying that there is a certain satisfaction in clearing the aforementioned black spots: Some maps in BG I and II are really beautiful to look at, others contain interesting story bits, others memorable combat encounters.

Still, clearing these maps is not exploration from a gameplay standpoint: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the player, the rogue does all the work by himself), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interactions with the game world...
In the I.E. games you wander enjoying the scenario. Exploring (in gameplay terms) implies some sort of challenge and decision making process. In Zelda you explore. In BG you occasionally enjoy beautiful vistas.

D:OS I and II, taking inspiration from Ultima and having much bigger maps, are distinctively more developed on these regards. It's a fact. Unrelated to my or your personal preferences.

must pirate for me



It would've been proper if it had the open world feel and the free exploring of the first.



that's not gameplay.
or it can be for retarded autists such yourself.
and it is thrilling seeing map features and point of interests being discovered with each step.


If someone wants the true feel of exploration in their game, "shroud of war" is mandatory.

See above

 

[Grotesque]

This is not explorations from a gameplay standpoint, though: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the players, the rogue does all the work), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interaction with the game world... This is wandering. No exploration.

that's what exploration is in your view or what it should be



the most memorable moment for a friend of mine while he was playing BG1 back in the day (and the moment that he keeps bringing it up 22 years later when he gets drunk and laments of not being able nowadays to enjoy games like he used to), is a moment where he experienced true unforgettable immersion while he was just walking in a random forest during the rain at dusk.

so fuck exploration "from a gameplay standpoint"

what I want from a game is emotion, not just numbers and mechanics.

 

[Glop_dweller]

 

[Dr Schultz]

This is not explorations from a gameplay standpoint, though: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the players, the rogue does all the work), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interaction with the game world... This is wandering. No exploration.

that's what exploration is in your view or what it should be



the most memorable moment for a friend of mine while he was playing BG1 back in the day (and the moment that he keeps bringing it up 22 years later when he gets drunk and laments of not being able nowadays to enjoy games like he used to), is a moment where he experienced true unforgettable immersion while he was just walking in a random forest during the rain at dusk.

so fuck exploration "from a gameplay standpoint"

what I want from a game is emotion, not just numbers and mechanics.

I thought I said exactly the opposite in my post: In a videogame you have good exploration when you have to work for something awesome to happen.
My issue with the "exploration" in the I.E. games is precisely this: It takes zero effort to clear the black spots of a prerendered painting, beautiful as it may be.

Aside for that, enjoy your emotions. No one here wants to rob you or your friends form your fond memories.

 

[V_K]

Again, man: I don't know which game(s) have you played, but they are not D:OS I and II.

I've played DOS2 (well, the Fort Joy map and bits of Reaper Coat - that was as much as I could stomach) just last month. In Fort Joy, you go beach->fort->prison->marshes/rebel camp->docks. I guess you can skip prison if you try really hard and chose between Braccus' armory and frozen beach for a tool to deal with shriekers, but that's about the extent of non-linearity that Fort Joy allows. And that's even discounting that you have fat chance of defeating enemies above your level in unmodded DOS2 which railroads you even more.

 

[Glop_dweller]

My issue with the "exploration" in the I.E. games is precisely this: It takes zero effort to clear the black spots of a prerendered painting, beautiful as it may be.

But it's a gamble [the first time]. You do not know what may be lurking there... and in a few cases there actually is a fairly powerful threat; more than one targeted ambush.

Effortless exploration is not bad; exploration without encounter is the only way that I could tolerate and somewhat enjoy playing FO3; I just had to avoid the awful (mood damaging) NPCs in that game. I wandered the wastes for what little appreciation of their work could be had from that game.

Poor mechanics is what's bad; good mechanics (all them Grotesque numbers ) matter more than anything else in a game—they are the cake upon which the sugary icing levelly sits.

 

[Grotesque]

This is not explorations from a gameplay standpoint, though: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the players, the rogue does all the work), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interaction with the game world... This is wandering. No exploration.

that's what exploration is in your view or what it should be



the most memorable moment for a friend of mine while he was playing BG1 back in the day (and the moment that he keeps bringing it up 22 years later when he gets drunk and laments of not being able nowadays to enjoy games like he used to), is a moment where he experienced true unforgettable immersion while he was just walking in a random forest during the rain at dusk.

so fuck exploration "from a gameplay standpoint"

what I want from a game is emotion, not just numbers and mechanics.

I thought I said exactly the opposite in my post: In a videogame you have good exploration when you have to work for something awesome to happen.
My issue with the "exploration" in the I.E. games is precisely this: It takes zero effort to clear the black spots of a prerendered painting, beautiful as it may be.

Aside for that, enjoy your emotions. No one here wants to rob you or your friends form your fond memories.

no, exploration has nothing to do with something awesome that has to happen to make it awesome.
me linking that video is proof that I understood exactly what you want to convey

you have an unhealthy obsession about black... spots and "clearing" them.

enjoy your Aspergers

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

[

the most memorable moment for a friend of mine while he was playing BG1 back in the day (and the moment that he keeps bringing it up 22 years later when he gets drunk and laments of not being able nowadays to enjoy games like he used to), is a moment where he experienced true unforgettable immersion while he was just walking in a random forest during the rain at dusk.

He may enjoy Kingdom Come Deliverance. It's not high fantasy, but BG1 and KCD share quite a bit in common when talking world design/ exploration. (And neither game is afraid to "bore" a part of its audience with minutes of gawking at pretty landscapes because that is what a landscape occasionally is -- something that merely exists).

 

[Dr Schultz]

Again, man: I don't know which game(s) have you played, but they are not D:OS I and II.

I've played DOS2 (well, the Fort Joy map and bits of Reaper Coat - that was as much as I could stomach) just last month. In Fort Joy, you go beach->fort->prison->marshes/rebel camp->docks. I guess you can skip prison if you try really hard and chose between Braccus' armory and frozen beach for a tool to deal with shriekers, but that's about the extent of non-linearity that Fort Joy allows. And that's even discounting that you have fat chance of defeating enemies above your level in unmodded DOS2 which railroads you even more.

Man, this post proves more than anything I can say that you have basically no idea on how to play this game. Speaking of Fort Joy alone, there are at least four different ways for leaving it.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/435150/discussions/0/343786746013241875/


If I say "you can break the intended progression in a infinity of ways" IT'S BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT.

And now I hope this useless argument is over. There's no shame in being clueless about something. The insistence, though...

 

[V_K]

there are at least four different ways for leaving it.

The only principal difference it makes progression-wise is whether you do the prison level or go straight to the marshes. And I acknowledged that you can skip the prison. I looked at the walkthrough before writing the post in case I was really missing something, and it only convinced me that I wasn't.

 

[Dr Schultz]

This is not explorations from a gameplay standpoint, though: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the players, the rogue does all the work), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interaction with the game world... This is wandering. No exploration.

that's what exploration is in your view or what it should be



the most memorable moment for a friend of mine while he was playing BG1 back in the day (and the moment that he keeps bringing it up 22 years later when he gets drunk and laments of not being able nowadays to enjoy games like he used to), is a moment where he experienced true unforgettable immersion while he was just walking in a random forest during the rain at dusk.

so fuck exploration "from a gameplay standpoint"

what I want from a game is emotion, not just numbers and mechanics.

I thought I said exactly the opposite in my post: In a videogame you have good exploration when you have to work for something awesome to happen.
My issue with the "exploration" in the I.E. games is precisely this: It takes zero effort to clear the black spots of a prerendered painting, beautiful as it may be.

Aside for that, enjoy your emotions. No one here wants to rob you or your friends form your fond memories.

no, exploration has nothing to do with something awesome that has to happen to make it awesome.
me linking that video is proof that I understood exactly what you want to convey

you have an unhealthy obsession about black... spots and "clearing" them.

enjoy your Aspergers

With all due respect, man: You trying to explain me what is MY idea of good exploration or what is good exploration in general is quite an amusing read :D.
Let's just say that I've spent decades playing exploration focused games: Zeldas and Zelda-like, Metroidvania and Soulls-ikes, 3d Platformers, Immersive Sims, Blobbers, few selected Open-World games (these generally suck at what should be their main selling point, but thankfully there are exceptions), unique games such Outer Wilds, name it...
Be content with my "Some maps in BG I and II are really beautiful to look at, others contain interesting story bits, others memorable combat encounters". This is the kindest thing I can say about BG exploration...

 

[Immortal]

Mehhh.. BG1 Wilderness areas were notorious for this.. but they still felt immersive in a way.. what's the chances of you finding something eye shocking amazing every 10 feet?
You'd sometimes just be occasionally attacked by a retardo gibberling or wolf.. Which made coming to a bandit attacked caravan or finding a wizard tower all the more interesting.

Also BG1 basically hid story hooks in the world. You could actually visit areas way beyond your level, or do things out of order if you knew where to look.

Call me a storyfag or immersionfag but having a wide open realm to explore felt good.

DOS2 feels so much more formulaic .. Your walking from Left Bottom corner to Top Right corner.. you can fork here and there.. but there's no sense of exploration.. you never really "miss" anything or feel out of your element like "Wow this forest is getting kinda shitty, better head back to Friendly Arm Inn"

I guess for a bunch of disgruntled veterans who can solo BG1 in a hour with a single character these experiences don't exist anymore.. but that was my initial feeling with BG1 and I was hoping for a turn based version of that.


(still better than PoE 1 though)

I'm not denying that there is a certain satisfaction in clearing the aforementioned black spots: Some maps in BG I and II are really beautiful to look at, others contain interesting story bits, others memorable combat encounters.

Still, clearing these maps is not exploration from a gameplay standpoint: No environmental hazards, no secrets to find (for the player, the rogue does all the work by himself), no engaging puzzles, almost zero interactions with the game world...
In the I.E. games you wander enjoying the scenario. Exploring (in gameplay terms) implies some sort of challenge and decision making process. In Zelda you explore. In BG you occasionally enjoy beautiful vistas.

D:OS I and II, taking inspiration from Ultima and having much bigger maps, are distinctively more developed on these regards. It's a fact. Unrelated to my or your personal preferences.

Likewise I didn't argue that BG1 was a unapproachable design and a staple of the industry.
It hits a very sweet spot but of course that could be improved / iterated on. There was a ton of cut content you can mod back in and a lot of forest areas were literally just a empty field with trees and bears.

I just think they got something right in that experience as a whole.

It's also not "Le Epic Adventure" where your fighting Demons and Illithids through Hell riding a cthulu space ship while dragons explode around you.. your just some loser level three dude trying to scatch together enough pelts to buy 2 health potions and a plate mail while skipping around these wide open areas.

I actually think the Audio background of BG1 did it the most favors.. I can still remember the music and birds chirping and sounds of many of those areas.. (IWD too)

This is really an argument more about Story Pacing and world design. DoS2 loves to shove a buncha shit in a huge map and I was hoping to see their spin on a BG1 / BG2 style adventure.

Instead this is just DoS2 in Faerun which is all well and good but it shouldn't be called BG3 - let's be honest here.

 

[baud]

In Zelda you explore

What kind of exploration there is Zelda? From those I've played, it's just use the object required to clear the current obstacle and that's it

 

[Darkforge]

Well, now I have been officially introduced into the absolute dumpster fire that is 5e. Is this really what they devolved the ruleset into or are Larian taking Autistic Liberties?