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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
Enemies on harder difficulties has a LOT of chances of resisting CCs. And lets be honest. Magic is interesting when can do more than throw fireballs...
Sylvan Sorcerer + GSF: Conjuration + Pernicious Poison (if something thinks that high Fort will save it).

It's just an example though. In Kingmaker on higher difficulties armor is all or nothing even if you don't spam Grease, Web, SC and Sirocco. You want to stack as much AC as you can on your tank because nothing else really matters. Non-tanks can have AC0 or AC30 and you won't notice much difference. Everything and their mom has insane attack (and damage) bonus due to inflated stats. In PoE heavy armor on non-tanks is sometimes good on PotD (mostly when fighting Shades in the early game).

What you said earlier about targeting Touch AC is valid. Some enemies indeed have high regular AC but low Touch AC. Then again, some physical attacks in D:OS2 ignore armor and always cause HP damage. So in this regard both systems are more or less even.
 

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
They are bad because they limit tactical options and destroy the immersion
We're going in circles. Immersion - what is it? Some kind of perceived realism? Cooldowns aren't any less realistic than HP. IRL you can't calculate how many "HP" you have. Even the very notion of guessing how many wounds a sword fighter could take before dying is absurd because in many cases just one is enough. Levels are also completely unrealistic. Should we consider all games that have HP and character levels terrible immersion decline?

As for tactical options, you can play a party of all mages in D:OS2 (it's totally viable) and bypass cooldowns with scrolls whenever you feel the need to spam something. What game has better tactical options?
 
Joined
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4,234
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
They are bad because they limit tactical options and destroy the immersion
We're going in circles. Immersion - what is it? Some kind of perceived realism? Cooldowns aren't any less realistic than HP. IRL you can't calculate how many "HP" you have. Even the very notion of guessing how many wounds a sword fighter could take before dying is absurd because in many cases just one is enough. Levels are also completely unrealistic. Should we consider all games that have HP and character levels terrible immersion decline?

Cooldowns destroy immersion because at that point it becomes impossible to imagine what is supposed to be happening in the game world. Everything presented in RPGs is an abstraction on some level. People don't survive 10 blows in plot with the sword to the head, they get tired over time until they receive a fatal blow (the one that gets their HP to 0). Levels are just show that characters are getting more experienced and learn new things. In the game world its a gradual process, in game rules its separated into "levels".
On the other hand I can't even guess what does it mean that "ram attack" or whatever is on a cooldown. Did the character got tired? If yes, why is he able to use whirlwind in the next turn? Does he need to gather power? For charging at the enemy?
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
prodigydancer , granted, a round robin system can work, and is much easier to balance. I once played a game of Warhammer 40K where my opponent was left with 5 characters after my first shooting phase (because we were too lazy to build terrain, and I had a ton of ranged firepower).

But competing initiative among the same team is retarded. IF the game makes you want to be winitiative debuffed, then it is a stupid oversight.
The proper way to do it is to let each player choose which character to activate, and call this stat tactics (because it becomes a Team stat) instead of initiative(which is personal).
Also it needs to manipulate turn order, otherwise having tons of characters is a huge advantage because you have several actions in a row.

Games like Space Marines (epic 40K) allows a side to retain initiative (ie play twice in a row if they succeed their command test), or delay it (ie skip one action to let characters play later).
Granted, turn order manipulation is not as bad as in a competitive 1v1 game here, because the player is always outnumbered (so it can be seen as an extra challenge), but there is no excuse not to be able to choose who should go next.

Having characters compete and only against other characters in the same team is bad (because the competition goes against everything else in the game, and the stat that governs will becomes not only weak, but you may even prefer lowering it on some characters).

Also, choosing who goes next gives a more interesting decisions, and never makes your situation worse because you killed an opponent.

Even the very notion of guessing how many wounds a sword fighter could take before dying is absurd because in many cases just one is enough. Levels are also completely unrealistic. Should we consider all games that have HP and character levels terrible immersion decline?
All things being equal, I prefer systems that track actual wounds than HP indeed.

iu


(This one is from Robinson Requiem)


Yogendra Singh Yadav
In 1999, Yogendra Singh Yadav was a member of the Indian troops fighting against Pakistan and his target was three enemy bunkers situated at the top of a mountain. Said mountain presented a hundred-foot wall of solid ice, which meant climbing with pickaxes and risking death every step of the way. Yadav volunteered to go first, fixing ropes in place so that his fellow soldiers could follow. Halfway up, the Pakistani troops starting shooting. Yadav was hit three times and most of his squad was killed. When he reached the top, he ran through machine-gun fire to throw a grenade in through the window of the first bunker, killing everyone inside. Then he tackled the second bunker, again taking multiple hits, before he got inside and killed the four men there with his bare hands. He had a broken leg, shattered arm, and as much as 15 bullets in him when his fellow troops took the third bunker. He was awarded with the Param Vir Chakra, a medal so highly valued that only 21 people have ever received it – two thirds posthumously. Yadav, however, survived.
Part of this story may have been enhanced for propaganda purpose, but still: sometimes, one wound is not enough!
 
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jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,488
Baldurs gate 3 would be a whole lot more interesting if you play as a villain. A agent of cyric that is tasked with causing wars with kingdoms spreading chaos and lies. Very early on in the game you figure out that your bhaalspawn and your goal in the game is ultimately discovering what kind of person that makes you. Your loyal band of cyric followers are also out and about in the game world. You and your cyric buddy get in over your heads and get separated from the band and have to deal with mindflayers, good and evil, mystery of your heritage and staying true to cyric. What does it entail to serve a mad god in a time of troubles and heroes?
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
D&D 5e: enemies that require to not get perma CC have legendary resistance ( they can chose to succed a save and consume the legendary resitance).

See no need of pontless armor mechanics that only encourage nuking an HP bar.

it's a lot better to stripping the enemy resistances also more fun, the classic "let's dispell/remove enemy protections", no point in HP bloat that give cc immunities.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,475
All things being equal, I prefer systems that track actual wounds than HP indeed.

iu


(This one is from Robinson Requiem)

A blast from the past.. was Robinson the first survival game? You could even amputate limbs and go blind, this the real survival horror
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
All things being equal, I prefer systems that track actual wounds than HP indeed.

iu


(This one is from Robinson Requiem)

A blast from the past.. was Robinson the first survival game? You could even amputate limbs and go blind, this the real survival horror
It was probably not the first, given that games went in wild directions at this time, but it was certainly the most detailed for its time.
I died countless times from spoiled food, water infected wounds ...
I should definitely replay it today (or play its quasi sequel Deus?).
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,475
All things being equal, I prefer systems that track actual wounds than HP indeed.

iu


(This one is from Robinson Requiem)

A blast from the past.. was Robinson the first survival game? You could even amputate limbs and go blind, this the real survival horror
It was probably not the first, given that games went in wild directions at this time, but it was certainly the most detailed for its time.
I died countless times from spoiled food, water infected wounds ...
I should definitely replay it today (or play its quasi sequel Deus?).

I didnt know it had a sequel, gonna check it out
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Messages
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Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
All things being equal, I prefer systems that track actual wounds than HP indeed.

iu


(This one is from Robinson Requiem)

A blast from the past.. was Robinson the first survival game? You could even amputate limbs and go blind, this the real survival horror
It was probably not the first, given that games went in wild directions at this time, but it was certainly the most detailed for its time.
I died countless times from spoiled food, water infected wounds ...
I should definitely replay it today (or play its quasi sequel Deus?).

I didnt know it had a sequel, gonna check it out
Both are on gog. I now remember I lost both eyes in a game (actually, I don't think I have ever gotten very far), which funnily didn't trigger a game over screen immediately :D
I guess it could count as an early Neo Scavenger.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
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Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
LoL this map is so fucking retarded lol. Nowhere in the freaking world people will make such a fucking city lol.
Assuming that people cannot build inefficient city is fucking retarded, considering that even in modern ages some idiots making mistakes in site planning, let alone world where apex predators and magic exist.

P.S. I don't defend devs or game, just let's focus criticism on something more important.
 

Mojobeard

Augur
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
393
LoL this map is so fucking retarded lol. Nowhere in the freaking world people will make such a fucking city lol.
Assuming that people cannot build inefficient city is fucking retarded, considering that even in modern ages some idiots making mistakes in site planning, let alone world where apex predators and magic exist.
Even the most idiotic medieval builders would know to build their keep on the big hill that's in the center of the city.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
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Location
Sea of Eventualities
Even the most idiotic medieval builders would know to build their keep on the big hill that's in the center of the city.
*Re-reading name of what looks like fucking mountian*
Fuck, this is hill?! Who the fuck draw a mere hill like it a Lone Mountian? Maybe this hill is cursed or someones tomb, but anyway I retract rating from fantadomat, he didn't deserved it today. At least now.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,616
Location
Bulgaria
LoL this map is so fucking retarded lol. Nowhere in the freaking world people will make such a fucking city lol.
Assuming that people cannot build inefficient city is fucking retarded, considering that even in modern ages some idiots making mistakes in site planning, let alone world where apex predators and magic exist.

P.S. I don't defend devs or game, just let's focus criticism on something more important.
Sure today cities are build by stupid planning. In such conditions the cities grow naturally. It is not about efficiency but about how unnatural it is. Also calling that mountain a fucking hill when it is bigger than the city is retarded. If it was actual hill it would have been a natural position for the elite and the military buildings. The city would have grown toward it,not around it.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2

LoL this map is so fucking retarded lol. Nowhere in the freaking world people will make such a fucking city lol.


9b8a760f196c5dc5be0c27aa87db7ffd.jpg


Both the forested areas at top and bottom are hills, the one on south particularly abrupt, yet the actual walled in section of the city and the keep is in the shadow of the heights.

Just because there's a height in an area(Brasov has other hills jutting out), doesn't mean the first, best idea is to build a castle on top of it.
 
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Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
Sure today cities are build by stupid planning. In such conditions the cities grow naturally. It is not about efficiency but about how unnatural it is. Also calling that mountain a fucking hill when it is bigger than the city is retarded. If it was actual hill it would have been a natural position for the elite and the military buildings. The city would have grown toward it,not around it.
Agree about drawing of hill, apparently artist was exercised his/her ego or compensated something.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,616
Location
Bulgaria
Sure today cities are build by stupid planning. In such conditions the cities grow naturally. It is not about efficiency but about how unnatural it is. Also calling that mountain a fucking hill when it is bigger than the city is retarded. If it was actual hill it would have been a natural position for the elite and the military buildings. The city would have grown toward it,not around it.
Agree about drawing of hill, apparently artist was exercised his/her ego or compensated something.
Yeah,i am having problems with that retarded curve around the hill,it is the most unnatural thing ever. Outer neighbourhood are usually packed around the walls so in case of attack to be easy transported in the inner city...if the lord allows it. All that curve is retarded beyond believe.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
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Feb 17, 2011
Messages
18,135
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Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Sure today cities are build by stupid planning. In such conditions the cities grow naturally. It is not about efficiency but about how unnatural it is. Also calling that mountain a fucking hill when it is bigger than the city is retarded. If it was actual hill it would have been a natural position for the elite and the military buildings. The city would have grown toward it,not around it.
Agree about drawing of hill, apparently artist was exercised his/her ego or compensated something.
Yeah,i am having problems with that retarded curve around the hill,it is the most unnatural thing ever. Outer neighbourhood are usually packed around the walls so in case of attack to be easy transported in the inner city...if the lord allows it. All that curve is retarded beyond believe.

I presume the cause is the new position of Wyrm's Crossing. The author clearly thought that traffic from the bridge to the city gate would result in settlement along the way. He obviously miscalculated.
 

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