Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[NJClaw]

I regret ever shit talking Sawyer. Villains always become worse and the steaks always become higher.

Joshua is still an omega-level autist, and self-absorbed, and tasteless no doubt about that, but yes... his crap at least managed to follow some clues, and keep the apparent form and frame of its supposed spiritual master, at least superficially.

This new guy though... nope, they're not even trying. They literally just bank on the IP, and refurbish their own engine/game with 5e ruleset. That's about it.

I agree with this. I don't like joshs home brew system he did with PoE, but I think if he was forced to make an AD&D game he would do a much better job. [...] I think he would design a much better game than Larian honestly given the same challenge and the same constraints, if he were willing to do it and work within the AD&D rules system.

He wanted to work within the D&D rule system (not AD&D though), he simply didn't have the rights to do so:

Spoiler

from 2:40 to 3:00

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I regret ever shit talking Sawyer. Villains always become worse and the steaks always become higher.

Joshua is still an omega-level autist, and self-absorbed, and tasteless no doubt about that, but yes... his crap at least managed to follow some clues, and keep the apparent form and frame of its supposed spiritual master, at least superficially.

This new guy though... nope, they're not even trying. They literally just bank on the IP, and refurbish their own engine/game with 5e ruleset. That's about it.

I agree with this. I don't like joshs home brew system he did with PoE, but I think if he was forced to make an AD&D game he would do a much better job. [...] I think he would design a much better game than Larian honestly given the same challenge and the same constraints, if he were willing to do it and work within the AD&D rules system.

He wanted to work within the D&D rule system (not AD&D though), he simply didn't have the rights to do so:

Spoiler

from 2:40 to 3:00

yeah if only D&D released their rules under an open license
maybe call it "open gaming license"
might even spawn spinoffs like routefinder or pathseeker

 

[Doma]

Well, it sure makes Pillars of Eternity 1 + Expansions look really good.

 

[Lilura]

But Icewind Dale and IWD II and both pillars games were extremely good looking and well put together games, even more so than BG.

Disagree on IWD and IWD2 being better than BG (which was seminal and laid all groundwork), but yeah, Infinity wasn't the best engine out there, but its output was respectable:

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Really annoyed they're sticking with the D:OS2 dialogue style it just falls so flat when reading. Yes I know we're supposed to insert our own dialogue in there to "personalize" it but it still comes off lazy to me.

We'll see with the demo if they've bastardized the mechanics but at least I'm optimistic on that front since no D:OS2 levels of HP bloat or phys / mag armor.

I think BG3 will be fun to play but I've got more hope for Solasta to deliver a better D&D adventure especially since its not set in the Forgotten Realms.

Don't get me wrong I like the realms but especially in Zehir but we're always going to the sword coast or icewind dale.

lol, how do you enter your own dialogue? is there a DM? Are you larping at the screen the whole time? I am not trying to be a dick to you, I am seriously asking what larians intentions are here.

 

[Elex]

Really annoyed they're sticking with the D:OS2 dialogue style it just falls so flat when reading. Yes I know we're supposed to insert our own dialogue in there to "personalize" it but it still comes off lazy to me.

We'll see with the demo if they've bastardized the mechanics but at least I'm optimistic on that front since no D:OS2 levels of HP bloat or phys / mag armor.

I think BG3 will be fun to play but I've got more hope for Solasta to deliver a better D&D adventure especially since its not set in the Forgotten Realms.

Don't get me wrong I like the realms but especially in Zehir but we're always going to the sword coast or icewind dale.

Judging by the damage in the combat log and the HP levels, it looks like they are using 5e stats/mechanics.

To hit/accuracy looks different though, you should never have more than 95% chance to hit due to crit fails. Though I suppose that 97% might include advantage (roll twice, take better result).

Yes is probally advantage/disadvantage in the %

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Really annoyed they're sticking with the D:OS2 dialogue style it just falls so flat when reading. Yes I know we're supposed to insert our own dialogue in there to "personalize" it but it still comes off lazy to me.

We'll see with the demo if they've bastardized the mechanics but at least I'm optimistic on that front since no D:OS2 levels of HP bloat or phys / mag armor.

I think BG3 will be fun to play but I've got more hope for Solasta to deliver a better D&D adventure especially since its not set in the Forgotten Realms.

Don't get me wrong I like the realms but especially in Zehir but we're always going to the sword coast or icewind dale.

Judging by the damage in the combat log and the HP levels, it looks like they are using 5e stats/mechanics.

To hit/accuracy looks different though, you should never have more than 95% chance to hit due to crit fails. Though I suppose that 97% might include advantage (roll twice, take better result).

its not fun to miss when playing a computer game. Its only fun to miss playing board games or table games.

 

[Jimmious]

lol, how do you enter your own dialogue? is there a DM? Are you larping at the screen the whole time? I am not trying to be a dick to you, I am seriously asking what larians intentions are here.

Yes most probably for multiplayer there will be a DM actually. This was already in D:OS2

 

[Tacgnol]

Really annoyed they're sticking with the D:OS2 dialogue style it just falls so flat when reading. Yes I know we're supposed to insert our own dialogue in there to "personalize" it but it still comes off lazy to me.

We'll see with the demo if they've bastardized the mechanics but at least I'm optimistic on that front since no D:OS2 levels of HP bloat or phys / mag armor.

I think BG3 will be fun to play but I've got more hope for Solasta to deliver a better D&D adventure especially since its not set in the Forgotten Realms.

Don't get me wrong I like the realms but especially in Zehir but we're always going to the sword coast or icewind dale.

Judging by the damage in the combat log and the HP levels, it looks like they are using 5e stats/mechanics.

To hit/accuracy looks different though, you should never have more than 95% chance to hit due to crit fails. Though I suppose that 97% might include advantage (roll twice, take better result).

its not fun to miss when playing a computer game. Its only fun to miss playing board games or table games.

Properly built martial characters really don't miss that often on tabletop games though, vs raw AC anyway.

 

[Theldaran]

We should call upon the Inquisition alright, but throw them at Larian for this butchering.

 

[Desolate Dancer]

I agree with this. I don't like joshs home brew system he did with PoE, but I think if he was forced to make an AD&D game he would do a much better job. I actually think he is very talented at making an artistic good looking game. All his games have looked professional and artistic and even beautiful. I just wish he had not gone off and designed his own gaming system for PoE. But Icewind Dale and IWD II and both pillars games were extremely good looking and well put together games, even more so than BG. I think he would design a much better game than Larian honestly given the same challenge and the same constraints, if he were willing to do it and work within the AD&D rules system.

We can of course conclude that his biggest sin was his autistic pursue of balance aka the socialism of gaming. I'm not entirely sure of the extent of which he formed IWD (not his position, but actual, final input from him), but I would say that all IE games art is superior compared to any 3D game. So at the end of the day, he presided over something that was bound to look good anyway, as it was a product of its time more so, than a product of Joshua.

As for the constant comparison in-between IE games: it is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't be able to tell if IWD was better looking than BG, and even if I would, it'd be my subjective opinion anyway. But it is clear that the two games differed in theme and graphics too, and imho the theme was in sync with the art style in both games, and this is all what objectively matters. That being said, I never really liked IWD, and I only played them through once each, since it had no soul either (but again, compared to modern games, it at least had a partial soul, a nefesh without a neshama).

 

[Lilura]

Properly built martial characters really don't miss that often on tabletop games though, vs raw AC anyway.

That's true in BG, IWD and BG2 as well (which don't technically have builds, but I'm talking barebones optimization of a physical-based leveling template). Player THAC0 is almost always ahead of enemy AC, and player AC is almost always ahead of enemy THAC0. To the point where we miss only 5% of the time and get his only 5% of the time. Of course, with arcane augmentation (say, Mirror Image, Stoneskin), we don't get hit at all by mundanes. My point against "missing isn't fun" is that we work towards only missing 5% of the time and getting hit only 5% of the time. This can also be attained with buffs.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

But Icewind Dale and IWD II and both pillars games were extremely good looking and well put together games, even more so than BG.

Disagree on IWD and IWD2 being better than BG (which was seminal and laid all groundwork), but yeah, Infinity wasn't the best engine out there, but its output was respectable:

Mostly with I was talking about how IWD looked and was put together as a package with the music, the UI etc.. not the entire game play part. I actually am not sure IWD 2 is better looking because I am playing it now and the character sheets suck actually, and I had forgotten how limited they were.... IWD's and BG's are better.

But my point was the IWD games were to me very nicely made games, visually where as Larians games lack the same artistic style. Josh Sawyer seems to be able to make good looking games. Also I think he has a track record of making very enjoyable games when confined by a rule set he did not design himself, whether he likes that fact or not..... such as with New Vegas, IWD 1+2 perhaps others....

 

[NJClaw]

I wouldn't be able to tell if IWD was better looking than BG, and even if I would, it'd be my subjective opinion anyway.

IWD is objectively better looking than BG, simply because IWD maps and backgrounds are all hand-painted after being rendered.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Okay I called it wrong. I like most elements of the screenshots. And I like how it looks less like a poor man's Discworld than D:OS. But I can't quite be excited for this with that dialogue system. Again, not as bad as I thought but not having exact dialogue no matter the interface will be just as inefficient as a four answer dialogue wheel. Speaking of, I don't think I saw more than four options in the menus. The more I think about this the less I like it.

 

[Lilura]

As for the constant comparison in-between IE games: it is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't be able to tell if IWD was better looking than BG, and even if I would, it'd be my subjective opinion anyway. But it is clear that the two games differed in theme and graphics too, and imho the theme was in sync with the art style in both games, and this is all what objectively matters.

It depends how intimate you are with IWD and BG. Like, if you've played them or not. I haven't seen anyone who has played both say that IWD backdrops don't look better than BG ones. And I haven't seen anyone argue that BG2 has better paperdolls and mundane sprites than BG.

 

[Theodora]

Obviously posting with apparent hindsight etc. etc. but: why were people so sceptical that it would be an actual cRPG given Larian is publishing it as well, and hot on the success of Original Sin 1 + 2? I get that it's AAA in terms of resources invested, but culturally they haven't really entered that world.

The only Larian game I played before DOS1/2 was Divine Divinity, and the games felt very much cut of the same cloth.

 

[Sacibengala]

They can all be redeemed from the similarities with OS2, changing in the rules and ugly char models and interface, if they release a NWN kind of level editor for free with the game.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I agree with this. I don't like joshs home brew system he did with PoE, but I think if he was forced to make an AD&D game he would do a much better job. I actually think he is very talented at making an artistic good looking game. All his games have looked professional and artistic and even beautiful. I just wish he had not gone off and designed his own gaming system for PoE. But Icewind Dale and IWD II and both pillars games were extremely good looking and well put together games, even more so than BG. I think he would design a much better game than Larian honestly given the same challenge and the same constraints, if he were willing to do it and work within the AD&D rules system.

We can of course conclude that his biggest sin was his autistic pursue of balance aka the socialism of gaming. I'm not entirely sure of the extent of which he formed IWD (not his position, but actual, final input from him), but I would say that all IE games art is superior compared to any 3D game. So at the end of the day, he presided over something that was bound to look good anyway, as it was a product of its time more so, than a product of Joshua.

As for the constant comparison in-between IE games: it is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't be able to tell if IWD was better looking than BG, and even if I would, it'd be my subjective opinion anyway. But it is clear that the two games differed in theme and graphics too, and imho the theme was in sync with the art style in both games, and this is all what objectively matters. That being said, I never really liked IWD, and I only played them through once each, since it had no soul either (but again, compared to modern games, it at least had a partial soul, a nefesh without a neshama).

He was lead designer on IWD 2 and both PoE games. And I did not like playing PoE games, but jsut visually to me they are both extremely beautiful games. Much more so than Kingmaker which I do enjoy playing.

 

[NJClaw]

Obviously posting with apparent hindsight etc. etc. but: why were people so sceptical that it would be an actual cRPG given Larian is publishing it as well, and hot on the success of Original Sin 1 + 2? I get that it's AAA in terms of resources invested, but culturally they haven't really entered that world.

The only Larian game I played before DOS1/2 was Divine Divinity, and the games felt very much cut of the same cloth.

Because life is pain and we are inside these rotten bodies just to suffer

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They can all be redeemed from the similarities with OS2, changing in the rules and ugly char models and interface, if they release a NWN kind of level editor for free with the game.

Pretty much guaranteed they will, D:OS1 and 2 came with a full editor.

 

[Lilura]

Mostly with I was talking about how IWD looked and was put together as a package with the music, the UI etc.. not the entire game play part. I actually am not sure IWD 2 is better looking because I am playing it now and the character sheets suck actually, and I had forgotten how limited they were.... IWD's and BG's are better.

But my point was the IWD games were to me very nicely made games, visually where as Larians games lack the same artistic style. Josh Sawyer seems to be able to make good looking games. Also I think he has a track record of making very enjoyable games when confined by a rule set he did not design himself, whether he likes that fact or not..... such as with New Vegas, IWD 1+2 perhaps others....

Yes, I share that view. As an aesthetic package, IWD is head and shoulders above BG. My point was that, as a total package, it's nowhere near BG ambition. Not even in the same ballpark. IWD2 I think is ambitious, and squeezed out the most technical juice, but it's easier to push an engine to its limits when you didn't need to lay down groundwork for its basic function and potential.

 

[whydoibother]

As for the constant comparison in-between IE games: it is a complete waste of time. I wouldn't be able to tell if IWD was better looking than BG, and even if I would, it'd be my subjective opinion anyway. But it is clear that the two games differed in theme and graphics too, and imho the theme was in sync with the art style in both games, and this is all what objectively matters.

It depends how intimate you are with IWD and BG. Like, if you've played them or not. I haven't seen anyone who has played both say that IWD backdrops don't look better than BG ones. And I haven't seen anyone argue that BG2 has better paperdolls and mundane sprites than BG.

Maybe people just don't like the white ice&snow visuals of the first Icewind Dale areas, and thats the memory they have left of it when they fail to exist that forest whatever-it-was-called.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Maybe people just don't like the white ice&snow visuals of the first Icewind Dale areas,

these people are wrong

 

[Elex]

Someone can upload screen in a place that don’t downscale it?