Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
They want the same game re-created indefinitely, using the same engine, same visual style, same core mechanics, etc. Such a boring way to approach games and kills any innovation in the genre.

In truth, I'd love to live in a world where Gold Box and Infinity Engine games were still made regularly.

Yeah, the accusation of nostalgia is a whole class of moronic criticism; there is this implicit supposition that new = better. Within the domain of cultural output it's pretty unique to games, as far as I can tell. You don't hear this shit about how music needs to be made a certain way in 2020, you don't see people declaring certain forms of literature obsolete, and while the art of making blockbuster movies has by now turned into a science, you don't see the consumers of those movies shitting on each other for preferring certain visual styles.
Thing is those people demand that modern games stop progressing and turn into the copies of the old ones. It would be fine if they wanted new old-school games, but they run around shitting on modern ones for not replicating the older ones.
 

Alpan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,340
Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?

Nick Pechenin is a terrible designer, responsible for the armor abonimation in D:OS II. We have someone who's simply not very good at designing combat systems, and he's apparently failed upwards into BG III lead design because Swen Vincke can't be honest with himself.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,620
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
How's the combat? Is it the retarded "battle ridiculous sponges, get their armor to 0, then stunlock them until end of combat" like in D:OS2?
We don't know how faithful to D&D 5 the game will be, so it's impossible to tell.

D&D 5 monster manual has some hp sponges, but they are not that frequent. Also, "get their armor to 0" can be translated only to "get their hp to 0" and that means the monster dies.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,827
Pathfinder: Wrath
D:OS1 is per-unit, not team-based. It still has the same issue because you could stack it to effectively go first every fight.
Shit, I despised that game so much that I cant remember anything.

But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?
I also thought it was party-wide initiative, lol. I distinctly remember always going first and annihilating the opponents before they could move, so I might've confused everyone having high initiative with the whole party going first/having initiative. But I also kinda remember being able to choose who goes when, but maybe I'm misremembering.
How's the combat? Is it the retarded "battle ridiculous sponges, get their armor to 0, then stunlock them until end of combat" like in D:OS2?
There are no armor mechanics like in D:OS2
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,489
But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?

“Combat works on a simultaneous turn-based method, which basically means it was their turn, it’s now my turn,” as Larian CEO and game director Swen Vincke put it in a press demo. “This is a change that we did to the system which leads to quite a lot of gameplay opportunities. It lets us do quite big battles, as you will see later,” Vincke continued.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,175
Yes, this is about your entire team going first and the initiative being counted as a group, not as individuals. You can't stack retarded amounts of initiative in 5E, so that's a non-issue. The problem with D:OS, and it will probably be in BG3, is that if you win initiative your party goes first and you can choose which person to act when. It doesn't work that in way in D&D, you roll Dexterity checks to determine the order of who goes after whom, including the enemies. So it can be something like Rogue -> enemy Rogue -> enemy Bard -> Druid -> enemy Fighter -> Cleric -> Sorcerer -> enemy Cleric.
It's baffling because a single wizard of yours going 1st is already game winning in D&D, whole party acting first is :kingcomrade:
Right, which is why the comparison to JA2 initiative is bad.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
D:OS1 is per-unit, not team-based. It still has the same issue because you could stack it to effectively go first every fight.
Shit, I despised that game so much that I cant remember anything.

But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?
If I had to guess?
WotC insistence. Mike Mearls hates the 5E initiative system AFAIK.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,620
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?

“Combat works on a simultaneous turn-based method, which basically means it was their turn, it’s now my turn,” as Larian CEO and game director Swen Vincke put it in a press demo. “This is a change that we did to the system which leads to quite a lot of gameplay opportunities. It lets us do quite big battles, as you will see later,” Vincke continued.
"Quite big battles". If this only means that they want to implement some sort of "simultaneous turn resolution", they are fucking idiots. If you only have 4 characters, they can't break the enemy team in too many subgroups.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,808
No, it's D&D's miss 3 times in a row due to bad rolls and embrace inevitable death.
That's a relief.


We don't know how faithful to D&D 5 the game will be
It's gonna run on 5e? Pretty interesting. 5e doesn't have much of a loot treadmill going on, since AC is kept pretty conservative (heavily armoured lvl 1 character can easily have an AC of 18, while, say, Tarrasque, one of the most powerful monsters, has an AC of 25. That means shit like sword +1 to hit is actually a really powerful, high-level item, meaning you can't give such shit out like candy).
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,827
Pathfinder: Wrath
If I had to guess?
WotC insistence. Mike Mearls hates the 5E initiative system AFAIK.
Why? What's wrong with it?

"Quite big battles". If this only means that they want to implement some sort of "simultaneous turn resolution", they are fucking idiots. If you only have 4 characters, they can't break the enemy team in too many subgroups.
For a company which has made quite a lot of turn-based games now, they should know that big battles and party-based RPGs are kinda like water and oil.
 

Theodora

Arcane
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
4,620
Location
anima Bȳzantiī
So much this. Photorealism can be really good. Look at the Yakuza series for a great example.
The interplay between that and anime styles, and the much more prevalent mid-tier development in Japan, means Japanese games are way more interesting to look at. NieR was another beautifully stylised game with photoreal elements. It's not the thing itself that's the problem, it's the place of value its given in western AAA-dom and the inability to experiment. Despite being extremely photoreal at the base, Kojima's word still has a definite style. Most western AAA games don't because they all gravitate towards shared styles out of cowardice.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,620
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
D:OS1 is per-unit, not team-based. It still has the same issue because you could stack it to effectively go first every fight.
Shit, I despised that game so much that I cant remember anything.

But if that's the case, why would they go for a "party initiative" in BG3?
If I had to guess?
WotC insistence. Mike Mearls hates the 5E initiative system AFAIK.
Mike Mearls is a fat fuck and I hate him. If D&D 5 is the cool system it actually is it's only thanks to Crawford.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,620
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
If I had to guess?
WotC insistence. Mike Mearls hates the 5E initiative system AFAIK.
Why? What's wrong with it?
I have a lot of problems with the initiative systems, but they exists only in the context of live PnP sessions. I don't like how it breaks the flow of the encounter: an ogre arrives and attacks you, than the spotlight goes to other three characters and five monsters and when it returns to you the tension of the moment is lost. I usually solve this with a more "discursive" initiative, where after an action the first to act is the recipient of that action and an additional initiative roll is used if there are more element involved in the scene. But this doesn't have place in a videogame adaptation.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,489
"Quite big battles". If this only means that they want to implement some sort of "simultaneous turn resolution", they are fucking idiots. If you only have 4 characters, they can't break the enemy team in too many subgroups.
I think he meant this (big screenshot incoming):
balders-gate-3-feb-preview-19.jpg
They basically add friendly NPCs to act "on your side", while the enemy is more numerous than your party or your allies individually. Also, it allows the player to set up combos with his characters that much easier.

Here you have the video of the [most of the] whole thing:
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
It's every time you say something with a skill check. Which is a lot, but I admit I was exaggerating purposefully.

It's clever if you are the kind of person who loves slot machines and loot boxes. To the rest of us, we see a dice animation overlayed by meaningless flashing random numbers, making it a novelty that will wear off after the second time you have to sit there and watch it.

Why not take it a step further and give us a 3d hand we can shake around with our mouse pointer to roll the dice? Maybe give us a table to roll the dice on. Maybe Swen the DM will be sitting at the other side of the table in a dunce cap. Then we can have a real table top experience. In fact, the game should just be that so we can really feel like we are playing with pen and paper.
VTT are already a thing and multiple 3D VTT are in development or already in the market.

of course WOTC asked larian to try to create a game that is also fitting for that.
 

Reality

Savant
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
395
I'm trying to decide what is more likely by the 4 characters + Companions

A: Companions are only present in camping, ala blacksmith, cook, whatever
B: Companions are full combat NPC and can do level up char progression but have no inventory and fixed equipment
C: Companions are Diablo style followers
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Is it the retarded "battle ridiculous sponges, get their armor to 0, then stunlock them until end of combat" like in D:OS2?
Tactician mode is nothing like this. Enemies regularly restore their allies shields(and use CC breaks on them), have points in the skill that gives shields back after CC ends, etc.,
D:OS2 combat is the opposite of spongey unless you're doing something stupid like attacking a shield-wearing heavy armor guy with physical damage.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,489
I really hope they cut that party-wide initiative thing.
I doubt they will, but then again with Early Access feedback it's not impossible for them to change that if a lot of players tell them it isn't working out.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom