Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

Baldur's Gate was an ok game.

Yes, the 2 is the good one, and throne of bhaal is a meh expansion.
I don’t even want to talk about siege of dragonspear.

 

[vortex]

PoE RTwP is OK. I'd rather play that than TB D:OS. TB gameplay puts me in the halt after some time.

 

[Delterius]

the 2 is the good one

oh no

what have you done

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE RTwP is OK. I'd rather play that than TB D:OS. TB gameplay puts me in the halt after some time.

PoE or D:OS is a difficult decision to make for me right now, but the fact is that I've played PoE about 300 hours and D:OS no more than 50.

Kingmaker beats PoE any day of course.

 

[Elex]

Prepare for a disappointment.

Anyone who is displeased with BG3 being turn-based will most likely swap to Pathfinder (especially with the sequel on the way) or sink into a depression of some kind, but after what I have seen so far I doubt that BG3 will be a failure, despite some fans' disappointment.

And if it's true that the current assets are mostly placeholders - I am not too convinced in this regard, but we shall see - then that would address my major issue about how the game feels like D:OS 3, rather than a BG series, from the aesthetic point of view.

I suspect it will be an OK game at worst (I find D:OS 2 being exactly that). Could be pretty damn good at best. Either way, like some other people have said already, it's already shaping up to be much better game than most people here expected it to be (read: not an action single-player MCORPG, in the vein of Inquisition).

Also... Waiter, more whine!

Why parhfinder don’t have doubled is kicstarter money after bg3 reveal?

 

[Saravan]

It is amazing how the BG3 thread is filled with old butthurt people that really despise old BG games. You really can't stand seeing other people enjoying games......sad,sad people.

I don't think anyone despises the old BG games. Well, okay, maybe a few do, but certainly very few.

But the combat of BG1 and 2 has just never been that great. It was "just" the best we had at the time - and for a very long time to follow.
What was great about BG1 & 2 were the classes, the spells, how all the systems interacted, the world, the story & characters (well, to some, anyway)...

I don't think I know too many people who really loved the combat style that either pitted you against super easy encounters not needing any pause or encounters so hard you'd spend more time in pause than unpaused. Combat was fun because of the systems behind it, not because of its RTwP nature.
Taking those systems and putting them into their natural habitat (TB, as that's how it is in PnP, too, for obvious reasons) just makes sense.

If - and only if - the encounter design is good, that is. But I am optimistic here.
Larian have proven with D:OS2 especially they can make good encounters - while D&D5E will make sure they can't completely botch the systems part as they did with that armor crap in D:OS2.
Best of both worlds, IMO.

Don't know what thread are you reading,but ain't this one. In my 3 years here,i haven't seen more toxic thread lol. Here either your are part of the petty squad or you get shit on,no matter if your opinion is balanced lol.

Ahhh that is your personal views,fair enough. For me the games are good as a whole,and do enjoy the combat,it is a lot more challenging than most TB games. And it is interesting how you people all talk about how tb is the way you should play D&D and how it is the original system etc etc. Yet in the end it was BG and its RTwP that pushed the D&D in to the computer market and made it popular. There were plenty of D&D TB games before that,but none managed to do that. It was BG that propelled D&D forward and introduced it to a lot of people around the world.



As for the TB....well i would have curbed my butthurt about it,if it was only it. But i don't recognize anything from the old D&D games in this pile of shit. I see cooldown spells,4 people party,throwing shoos and dipping bows,retarded pretentious writing,broken mind flayers lore,wrong camera,everyone is bi-fag,etc etc. If anything this whole ordeal just made me replay some old D&D games like dark sun and pool of radiance. Oh well,i will leave you people to your spitefulness and hate.

Edit: To expand a bit I think they are erroneous to believe that the DnD tie in will meaningfully increase sales.

The 3 after Baldur's Gate will increase sales meaningfully. Else, just make DOS3. This is a choice based on a desire for fame, fortune and legacy: what most people want.

I agree that such was the idea of naming it bg3,tho i am not sure if the effect will be as desired. From what i have seen here most of the people that are interested in the game do hate the old ones. I am yet to see someone saying that they liked the old ones and will buy this one too. Ahhh we will just have to wait and see.

Big lol. Please re-read this thread, the only butthurt I see are coming from people who can't accept the design decisions made for BG3. Every minute detail has to resemble the old else the game is automatically shit.

I have played both BG1 and 2 and they are some of my favourite cRPGs solely because they introduced me to the genre.

But I also recognize that 20 fucking years has passed since then and it's a completely new studio designing the sequel. I'm not stuck in the 90s and understand there will be changes, I also don't have insufferable nostalgia that makes it impossible to enjoy new concepts.

Get a handle on that butthurt boy it's going to consume you.

 

[Curratum]

PoE RTwP is pretty bad compared to BG/IWD RTwP.

That's only because Sawyer thought it was a good idea to have engagement and AoO in a real-time system. And the numbskull from Larian is bundling IE games with PoE, which I'm not a fan of in general.

If this was true, then simply removing engagement would have fixed the combat. Alas, it doesn't.

Can you remove engagement? Is there a mod? There might be hope that I will actually finish the game then! :D

 

[vortex]

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE RTwP is pretty bad compared to BG/IWD RTwP.

That's only because Sawyer thought it was a good idea to have engagement and AoO in a real-time system. And the numbskull from Larian is bundling IE games with PoE, which I'm not a fan of in general.

If this was true, then simply removing engagement would have fixed the combat. Alas, it doesn't.

Can you remove engagement? Is there a mod? There might be hope that I will actually finish the game then! :D

In PoE, there is the "IE mod". In Deadfire, you can mod it out yourself by editing the gamedatabundle files (JSON), but I'm sure there is a ready-made mod that removes the engagement for everyone.

In Deadfire, it's only a limited number of classes that have engagement anyway.

 

[Riddler]

It is amazing how the BG3 thread is filled with old butthurt people that really despise old BG games. You really can't stand seeing other people enjoying games......sad,sad people.

I don't think anyone despises the old BG games. Well, okay, maybe a few do, but certainly very few.

But the combat of BG1 and 2 has just never been that great. It was "just" the best we had at the time - and for a very long time to follow.
What was great about BG1 & 2 were the classes, the spells, how all the systems interacted, the world, the story & characters (well, to some, anyway)...

I don't think I know too many people who really loved the combat style that either pitted you against super easy encounters not needing any pause or encounters so hard you'd spend more time in pause than unpaused. Combat was fun because of the systems behind it, not because of its RTwP nature.
Taking those systems and putting them into their natural habitat (TB, as that's how it is in PnP, too, for obvious reasons) just makes sense.

If - and only if - the encounter design is good, that is. But I am optimistic here.
Larian have proven with D:OS2 especially they can make good encounters - while D&D5E will make sure they can't completely botch the systems part as they did with that armor crap in D:OS2.
Best of both worlds, IMO.

Don't know what thread are you reading,but ain't this one. In my 3 years here,i haven't seen more toxic thread lol. Here either your are part of the petty squad or you get shit on,no matter if your opinion is balanced lol.

Ahhh that is your personal views,fair enough. For me the games are good as a whole,and do enjoy the combat,it is a lot more challenging than most TB games. And it is interesting how you people all talk about how tb is the way you should play D&D and how it is the original system etc etc. Yet in the end it was BG and its RTwP that pushed the D&D in to the computer market and made it popular. There were plenty of D&D TB games before that,but none managed to do that. It was BG that propelled D&D forward and introduced it to a lot of people around the world.



As for the TB....well i would have curbed my butthurt about it,if it was only it. But i don't recognize anything from the old D&D games in this pile of shit. I see cooldown spells,4 people party,throwing shoos and dipping bows,retarded pretentious writing,broken mind flayers lore,wrong camera,everyone is bi-fag,etc etc. If anything this whole ordeal just made me replay some old D&D games like dark sun and pool of radiance. Oh well,i will leave you people to your spitefulness and hate.

Edit: To expand a bit I think they are erroneous to believe that the DnD tie in will meaningfully increase sales.

The 3 after Baldur's Gate will increase sales meaningfully. Else, just make DOS3. This is a choice based on a desire for fame, fortune and legacy: what most people want.

I agree that such was the idea of naming it bg3,tho i am not sure if the effect will be as desired. From what i have seen here most of the people that are interested in the game do hate the old ones. I am yet to see someone saying that they liked the old ones and will buy this one too. Ahhh we will just have to wait and see.

Big lol. Please re-read this thread, the only butthurt I see are coming from people who can't accept the design decisions made for BG3. Every minute detail has to resemble the old else the game is automatically shit.

I have played both BG1 and 2 and they are some of my favourite cRPGs solely because they introduced me to the genre.

But I also recognize that 20 fucking years has passed since then and it's a completely new studio designing the sequel. I'm not stuck in the 90s and understand there will be changes, I also don't have insufferable nostalgia that makes it impossible to enjoy new concepts.

Get a handle on that butthurt boy it's going to consume you.

The issue is that people are too busy sucking each other off to notice that pretty much every design decision is horrendously shit. Who cares whether it's TB or RtwP?! Everything we know about the rest of the game and the implementation of the TB screams decline, but no, we must guzzle each others cum just because it's TB.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, like I said before, everything looks good, except that it's being done by the same team that made D:OS/2.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

PoE RTwP is pretty bad compared to BG/IWD RTwP.

Engagement aside, I don't see that much difference in the way RtwP works between the two.

Now, PoE doesn't have anything close to the epic mage battles of BG2 or large-scale combat encounters in open areas of IWD 1/2, but that's the fault of PoE's ruleset and / or overall game design.

Also, sadly PoE mostly lacks the fantastic puzzles that were characteristic particularly of IWD2 but also present in other IE games, which makes it a lot more boring. I think puzzles / traps (like actual ones you can't easily disable) are an intrinsic part of the D&D experience, and Larian usually does quite well with those.


P.S. Writing this post made me want to replay IWD2. Drat.

 

[Lacrymas]

The issue is that people are too busy sucking each other off to notice that pretty much every design decision is horrendously shit. Who cares whether it's TB or RtwP?! Everything we know about the rest of the game and the implementation of the TB screams decline, but no, we must guzzle each others cum just because it's TB.

You still haven't provided an argument for why "pretty much every design decision in horrendously shit". Like it has been pointed out numerous times before, it's like 95% a faithful adaptation of 5E. The only really eyebrow-raising choice (that is still an optional rule in 5E) is party-wide initiative.

 

[luj1]

Larian never made good game

LED Wars

 

[Daidre]

You still haven't provided an argument for why "pretty much every design decision in horrendously shit".

List of things that already bothers me about combat, personally:

1. Action economy seem to be off with characters doing much more in one turn than they should, by rules. Looks more like nuX-COM than proper DnD to my untrained eye.
2. Initiative approach is pure meh. Even if it is acceptable by rules.
3. All counteraction system was diminished to AoO only, within the D&D version where whole class archetypes are built around it.

4. Can we avoid fighting by using social skills? Yes. All the fighting that Sven did, could have been avoided. None of that was mandatory. This is a big improvement over DOS 1, where you had monsters, that attacked as soon as they saw you. That won't be the case here. Without exaggerating, you have unique solution for every encounter. You can persuade, lie or just sneak by. There is no fight that you will be forced to take part in directly.

   Idea of having cinematic experience with Larian's trademark writing attached to every combat of note scares the shit out of me.
5. 4 - man party is a disgrace in combat-oriented party game.
6. Current class count is somewhere around 8 (?) with couple of archetypes for each. Not impressive for a person who is obsessed with build porn.
7. Whole class progression system was lacking in 5.0 last time I checked and was designed around shoehorning each character into 1 of 3-5 (at best) lovingly crafted "class-paths" to protect LARPers from being able to make dysfunctional characters, ever.
8. Larian's combat design from my D:OS experiences is all about putting kegs, boxes and puddles in the right places so player could notice them, set on fire and feel "Cooooool" and smart after.

 

[Riddler]

You still haven't provided an argument for why "pretty much every design decision in horrendously shit".

List of things that already bothers me about combat, personally:

1. Action economy seem to be off with characters doing much more in one turn than they should, by rules. Looks more like nuXCOM than proper DnD to my untrained eye.
2. Initiative approach is pure meh. Even if it acceptable by rules.
3. All counteraction system was diminished to AoO only, within the D&D version where whole class archetypes are built about it.

4. Can we avoid fighting by using social skills? Yes. All the fighting that Sven did, could have been avoided. None of that was mandatory. This is a big improvement over DOS 1, where you had monsters, that attacked as soon as they saw you. That won't be the case here. Without exaggerating, you have unique solution for every encounter. You can persuade, lie or just sneak by. There is no fight that you will be forced to take part in directly.

   Idea of having cinematic experience with Larian's trademark writing attached to every combat of note scares the shit out of me.
5. 4 - man party is a disgrace in combat-oriented party game.
6. Current class count is somewhere around 8 (?) with couple of archetypes for each. Not impressive for a person who is obsessed with build porn.
7. Whole class progression was lacking in 5.0 last time I checked and was designed around shoehorning each character into 1 of 3-5 (at best) lovingly crafted "paths" to protect LARPers from being able to make dysfunctional characters, ever.
8. Larian's combat design from my D:OS experiences is all about putting kegs, boxes and puddles in the right places so player could notice them, set on fire and feel "Cooooool" and smart after.

Also the alleged removal of short rest.

 

[Jimmious]

What would the benefit of having "short rest" be? So that we can click once more between battles? Honest question.
I personally think that reducing rests to as few as possible but with a somewhat meaningful content is the way to go.

 

[fantadomat]

Yet in the end it was BG and its RTwP that pushed the D&D in to the computer market and made it popular. There were plenty of D&D TB games before that,but none managed to do that. It was BG that propelled D&D forward and introduced it to a lot of people around the world.

You could be inaccurate on that score. Yes, Baldur's Gate's influence has been huge (excuse the self-citation), and I do rate the Infinity Engine as the greatest RPG engine after the one that powered Jagged Alliance 2, but I don't ascribe that to RTwP, the Goldbox games were very popular as well, and there are many people who think IE influence has been pernicious, or that the influence of the games influenced by the IE have been. I think aspects of the IE have been pernicious, and some aspects of campaigns built on it have been as well, but on the whole I'm glad IE happened, and I'm glad it's endured, because ToEE didn't manage to usher in a new Goldbox era.

If ToEE was a success, the landscape of RPGs would be so different. Troika's demise was one of the worst things to happen to the genre.

Well you are just proving my point. ToEE didn't do well,as many other TB games. The RPGs that did well and were commerciallys success were either action rpgs or RTwP. All the IE game did between good and great,NWN games did also well,bioware's third person RTwP shaped the rpg landscape for decades and it is the most successful rpg studio till today. Like them or not,they are responsible for the peak of RPGs we are seeing today,and the addition of RPG elements in most modern games. The only successful TB game outside of jrpgs is fucking DOS2. And with BG3 we will see if it was a lightning in a bottle or trend reversal.

 

[Jimmious]

Larian's combat design from my D:OS experiences is all about putting kegs, boxes and puddles in the right places so player could notice them, set on fire and feel "Cooooool" and smart after.

That alone makes you sound like you didn't really play the games tbh

 

[Daidre]

That alone makes you sound like you didn't really play the games tbh

I started D:OS twice but lost interest completely in the middle of chapter 2 both times. Never got to the D:OS 2.

I planned to make third attempt soon, but replaying BG with new mod setup + Slay the Spire (crazy addictive) turned out to be more attractive.

 

[Lacrymas]

You still haven't provided an argument for why "pretty much every design decision in horrendously shit".

List of things that already bothers me about combat, personally:

1. Action economy seem to be off with characters doing much more in one turn than they should, by rules. Looks more like nuX-COM than proper DnD to my untrained eye.
2. Initiative approach is pure meh. Even if it is acceptable by rules.
3. All counteraction system was diminished to AoO only, within the D&D version where whole class archetypes are built around it.

4. Can we avoid fighting by using social skills? Yes. All the fighting that Sven did, could have been avoided. None of that was mandatory. This is a big improvement over DOS 1, where you had monsters, that attacked as soon as they saw you. That won't be the case here. Without exaggerating, you have unique solution for every encounter. You can persuade, lie or just sneak by. There is no fight that you will be forced to take part in directly.

   Idea of having cinematic experience with Larian's trademark writing attached to every combat of note scares the shit out of me.
5. 4 - man party is a disgrace in combat-oriented party game.
6. Current class count is somewhere around 8 (?) with couple of archetypes for each. Not impressive for a person who is obsessed with build porn.
7. Whole class progression system was lacking in 5.0 last time I checked and was designed around shoehorning each character into 1 of 3-5 (at best) lovingly crafted "class-paths" to protect LARPers from being able to make dysfunctional characters, ever.
8. Larian's combat design from my D:OS experiences is all about putting kegs, boxes and puddles in the right places so player could notice them, set on fire and feel "Cooooool" and smart after.

1. Maybe? Drinking potions as a bonus action is a popular house rule, though. It really depends on the encounters I guess, but it does indeed seem like you can start behind a corner, go attack someone, and go back behind the corner at the end. This might be subject to change, who knows.
2. Yes, party-wide initiative works against a lot of things, especially encounter design. But it is technically an optional rule in 5E.
3. I don't think this is such a big deal, I'm pretty sure the classes are going to be redesigned if they rely too much on counteractions.
4. This is not related to the combat system.
5. A 4-man party is a standard one in D&D 5E. I would've preferred six, but you win some you lose some.
6. All classes are going to be in the game.
7. This is a problem with 5E, not Larian's decision making. There were more feats added as books were released afaik, but it's not going to be as involved as Pathfinder or 3.5E.
8. I didn't feel this in the demo when he played. Sure, there are boxes and you could pick them up, but the environmental interactions seem to be considerably reduced, especially noticeable when you compare it to D:OS2 where the entire battlefield was covered in shit in the end.

Outside of the action economy seeming too generous, Larian really haven't deviated from 5E all that much. If you are going to hate something, hate 5E. Most of these complaints seem like nitpicking to me, RTwP games have much bigger problems than this for example, yet people aren't spamming the Wrath of the Righteous thread with how much that game deviates from table-top and how each class' minutiae aren't exactly copied to the letter, and how that is horrendously shit.

 

[Daidre]

Most of these complaints seem like nitpicking to me, RTwP games have much bigger problems than this for example, yet people aren't spamming the Wrath of the Righteous thread with how much that game deviates from table-top and how each class' minutiae aren't exactly copied to the letter, and how that is horrendously shit.

1. Wrath of the Righteous will have a TB mode, even it is a big question how good and true to PnP it would be.
2. Owlcat trying to build their own name and make their own thing, instead of exhuming a corpse of beloved franchise out of the grave and trying to stretch molecule-thin layer of well-decayed skin over their own body.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, yeah, this IS about nostalgia and nothing else.

 

[Saravan]

Most of these complaints seem like nitpicking to me, RTwP games have much bigger problems than this for example, yet people aren't spamming the Wrath of the Righteous thread with how much that game deviates from table-top and how each class' minutiae aren't exactly copied to the letter, and how that is horrendously shit.

1. Wrath of the Righteous will have a TB mode, even it is a big question how good and true to PnP it would be.
2. Owlcat trying to build their own name and make their own thing, instead of exhuming a corpse of beloved franchise out of the grave and trying to stretch molecule-thin layer of well-decayed skin over their own body.

Owlcat are making a game based on Paizo's concepts. Larian have built their success on the Divinity games which enabled them to work on BG3. So pray tell the difference.

By the way I bought and played PF:KM and will buy their new one too, I enjoy both styles.

 

[Anonona]

1. Maybe? Drinking potions as a bonus action is a popular house rule, though. It really depends on the encounters I guess, but it does indeed seem like you can start behind a corner, go attack someone, and go back behind the corner at the end. This might be subject to change, who knows..

As far as I'm aware, you can do another action in the middle of your move action and then continue moving on e5. So if you speed is 30ft, you can move 10ft, attack, and then move 20ft.

And it is interesting how you people all talk about how tb is the way you should play D&D and how it is the original system etc etc. Yet in the end it was BG and its RTwP that pushed the D&D in to the computer market and made it popular. There were plenty of D&D TB games before that,but none managed to do that. It was BG that propelled D&D forward and introduced it to a lot of people around the world.

The thing is, you are making the point that RtwP is more popular, not better. If we follow that metric, then BG3 should be a battle royale to reach peak incline. You are not wrong necessarily in that RtwP may actually be the most popular, but I think the main concern and topic of discussion is if the game is going to be good or not, which as of now I think we lack enough information to properly surmise as encounter design will be essential to determine such thing, and not all classes and mechanics have been shown. We both can agree that Kingmaker hasn't done the big numbers other franchises like Dragon Age or Mass Effect have, but I think many will not hesitate to proclaim Kingmaker as the better game. It doing good also has no bearings of TB vs RtwP being how a D&D game should be, it has always been a discussion about sticking to the PnP rules or if RtwP is better for simulation and CRPGs.