Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Spectacle]

Totally agree, this is the strongest being in the DND world, on the same level as an avatar of Tiamat, a literal body of a god.
Terrasque

It's not. Larloch, Laeral Silverhand, Elminster are all more powerful than a Terrasque. There are also far more powerful beings than them too. If I remember correctly, a Hecatoncheires is the strongest monster in terms of CR, I don't know if it exists in 5E though.

The Tarrasque may have impressive numbers but as it lacks any ranged attacks or other ways to deal with flying opponents it wouldn't be much of a challenge to a group of high level or even well prepares mid level adventurers. It could easily defeat an army of regular soldiers though.

As Thac0 said none of the epic spellcasters in the Forgotten Realms have gotten stats in 5e, but if we consider how their colleague Mordenkainen is handled they would all be CR 12 Archmages with custom spell lists.

 

[Thac0]

Totally agree, this is the strongest being in the DND world, on the same level as an avatar of Tiamat, a literal body of a god.
Terrasque

It's not. Larloch, Laeral Silverhand, Elminster are all more powerful than a Terrasque. There are also far more powerful beings than them too. If I remember correctly, a Hecatoncheires is the strongest monster in terms of CR, I don't know if it exists in 5E though.

The Tarrasque may have impressive numbers but as it lacks any ranged attacks or other ways to deal with flying opponents it wouldn't be much of a challenge to a group of high level or even well prepares mid level adventurers. It could easily defeat an army of regular soldiers though.

As Thac0 said none of the epic spellcasters in the Forgotten Realms have gotten stats in 5e, but if we consider how their colleague Mordenkainen is handled they would all be CR 12 Archmages with custom spell lists.

Yeah while having lower numbers across the board Tiamat is much stronger than the Tarrasque in practise. Its just that the lore blurb in the monster manual describes the Tarrasques lore as really overpowered.

 

[Cryomancer]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

 

[NJClaw]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

Already answered by Christopher Perkins himself:

 

[FranticDistortion]

no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

" Gods were struck down during the Time of Troubles, when the Spellplague wrought its destruction and most recently when Netheril felt. Some deities have even been slain by mortals wielding impossibly powerful magic. "

 

[Xamenos]

Gods were struck down during the Time of Troubles,

A) During the Time of Troubles the gods walked the realms as diminished, mortal avatars. It was very much not business as usual.
B) Mystra was killed by Helm. Bane and Torm killed each other. (And then Ao, that filthy cheater, resurrected Torm on dubious grounds). Bhaal was killed by Mask in disguise as a sword, wielded by Cyric. Myrkul was killed by Midnight, who at the time wore an amulet with the last slivers of Mystra's power. Shar killed Imbrandul and usurped his portfolio. Even then, at no point did a mortal party without divine assistance manage to kill a god.

when the Spellplague wrought its destruction

4e retardation doesn't count. But even then, I'm pretty sure all gods who died were stupidly killed by another god, not by a mortal. Not entirely sure though, things got very stupid indeed during the 4e transition.

most recently when Netheril felt.

Lol, wut? Netheril fell two thousand years ago. And the only god to die at the time, Mystryl, killed herself after her power was usurped by Karsus, a Netherese archmage casting the only 11th level spell to have ever existed.

I have no idea where you copy-pasted this from but speedreading wikis is no substitute for actually knowing what you're talking about.

 

[Elex]

It's not. Larloch, Laeral Silverhand, Elminster are all more powerful than a Terrasque. There are also far more powerful beings than them too. If I remember correctly, a Hecatoncheires is the strongest monster in terms of CR, I don't know if it exists in 5E though.

Hundred-handed one have stats: cr 15. 243 Hp 4 attacks but multiple reactions.

Laeral have stats (she is the open lord of waterdeep) cr 17

Tromokratis Or Slarkrethel are the named kraken boss the former have 2 phases is one of the new mythical bosses (it mean they can’t be instant killed and have things like multiple body part to destroy and become more powerfull during the fight). The latter have spellcasting up to lvl 9

niv-mizzeth and klauth are two named dragon with big boss tier powers: they have a lot of spell, niv mizzen can concentrate two spell at the same time.


The stronger alive spellcaster with stats for now is Halaster Blackcloack Cr 23

acererack is CR 23 too but he have 2 lvl 9 spells, 2lvl 8 and 3 lvl 7 a lot more than any other spellcaster

 

[Xamenos]

Tromokratis

niv-mizzeth

Wizards' attempt's to unite their IPs will never not be funny.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Gods were struck down during the Time of Troubles,

A) During the Time of Troubles the gods walked the realms as diminished, mortal avatars. It was very much not business as usual.
B) Mystra was killed by Helm. Bane and Torm killed each other. (And then Ao, that filthy cheater, resurrected Torm on dubious grounds). Bhaal was killed by Mask in disguise as a sword, wielded by Cyric. Myrkul was killed by Midnight, who at the time wore an amulet with the last slivers of Mystra's power. Shar killed Imbrandul and usurped his portfolio. Even then, at no point did a mortal party without divine assistance manage to kill a god.

when the Spellplague wrought its destruction

4e retardation doesn't count. But even then, I'm pretty sure all gods who died were stupidly killed by another god, not by a mortal. Not entirely sure though, things got very stupid indeed during the 4e transition.

most recently when Netheril felt.

Lol, wut? Netheril fell two thousand years ago. And the only god to die at the time, Mystryl, killed herself after her power was usurped by Karsus, a Netherese archmage casting the only 11th level spell to have ever existed.

I have no idea where you copy-pasted this from but speedreading wikis is no substitute for actually knowing what you're talking about.

In a book published by WOTC themselves?
https://rpg.fandom.com/ru/wiki/Sword_Coast_Adventurer’s_Guide
Page 20

 

[Xamenos]

In a book published by WOTC themselves?
https://rpg.fandom.com/ru/wiki/Sword_Coast_Adventurer’s_Guide
Page 20

Found it. You're right, it is official. No idea what they're trying to say with that Netheril thing, but it's the kind of retardation I'm expecting from Wizards. And the entire passage has nothing at all to do with non-epic PCs fighting deities, which was the original statement you were responding to.

 

[Thac0]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

 

[Delterius]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

have you ever even met a munchkin

 

[NJClaw]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

have you ever even met a munchkin

They are cute:

Spoiler

 

[Lacrymas]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

We aren't playing 100 soldiers. It's good that they are balancing everything around adventuring parties because that's what we are playing as. "Weak" gods are a symptom of the disease - epicness. Maybe don't give your player characters the possibilty to kill gods and everything will be fine.

 

[FranticDistortion]

In a book published by WOTC themselves?
https://rpg.fandom.com/ru/wiki/Sword_Coast_Adventurer’s_Guide
Page 20

View attachment 13483

Found it. You're right, it is official. No idea what they're trying to say with that Netheril thing, but it's the kind of retardation I'm expecting from Wizards. And the entire passage has nothing at all to do with non-epic PCs fighting deities, which was the original statement you were responding to.

Dragon Queen is a deity and is a final boss of Rise of Tiamat, a level 8-15 campaign. Tiamat gets banished (page 88).
You don't know a lot about 5e campaigns, I gather.

 

[Thac0]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

We aren't playing 100 soldiers. It's good that they are balancing everything around adventuring parties because that's what we are playing as. "Weak" gods are a symptom of the disease - epicness. Maybe don't give your player characters the possibilty to kill gods and everything will be fine.

But soldiers in 5e use the hero rules aswell. All fighter/archer/guardsman npcs in the monsters manual are build from the fighter class.

I agree its not a huge deal. DnD as a game never cared terribly much about simulating anything accurately, unlike DSA which could be used as a medieval simulator.
It was, to cite AwesomeButton, a thin layer of fantasy cringe spread over wargaming.

Edit: Fake News is right, I had all those humans from Volos in mind which are specifically monsters build with class levels to make for more interesting foes. Point still stands, any middle sized town garnison could slaughter gods if they get around the immunity to nonmagical weapons.

 

[NJClaw]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

We aren't playing 100 soldiers. It's good that they are balancing everything around adventuring parties because that's what we are playing as. "Weak" gods are a symptom of the disease - epicness. Maybe don't give your player characters the possibilty to kill gods and everything will be fine.

But soldiers in 5e use the hero rules aswell. All fighter/archer/guardsman npcs in the monsters manual are build from the fighter class.

I agree its not a huge deal. DnD as a game never cared terribly much about simulating anything accurately, unlike DSA which could be used as a medieval simulator.
It was, to cite AwesomeButton, a thin layer of fantasy cringe spread over wargaming.

Not necessarily. D&D 5 doesn't use a symmetric system: player characters and monsters/non player characters follow different rules. You can build a "soldier" without touching the Fighter class, simply using the standard monster building rules from the DMG. There are some examples of NPCs that use character classes, but that's the exception, not the norm.

 

[Elex]

In a book published by WOTC themselves?
https://rpg.fandom.com/ru/wiki/Sword_Coast_Adventurer’s_Guide
Page 20

View attachment 13483

Found it. You're right, it is official. No idea what they're trying to say with that Netheril thing, but it's the kind of retardation I'm expecting from Wizards. And the entire passage has nothing at all to do with non-epic PCs fighting deities, which was the original statement you were responding to.

Well that book was not written by wizard of the coast
https://www.amazon.it/Sword-Coast-Adventurers-Guide-Wizards/dp/0786965800

“Crafted by the scribes at Green Ronin“
https://greenronin.com/

it’s happened with a pair of campaign book too and they are the worse books of 5e.
They slap wotc logo on it but it’s written externally.

 

[Elex]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

We aren't playing 100 soldiers. It's good that they are balancing everything around adventuring parties because that's what we are playing as. "Weak" gods are a symptom of the disease - epicness. Maybe don't give your player characters the possibilty to kill gods and everything will be fine.

But soldiers in 5e use the hero rules aswell. All fighter/archer/guardsman npcs in the monsters manual are build from the fighter class.

I agree its not a huge deal. DnD as a game never cared terribly much about simulating anything accurately, unlike DSA which could be used as a medieval simulator.
It was, to cite AwesomeButton, a thin layer of fantasy cringe spread over wargaming.

Not necessarily. D&D 5 doesn't use a symmetric system: player characters and monsters/non player characters follow different rules. You can build a "soldier" without touching the Fighter class, simply using the standard monster building rules from the DMG. There are some examples of NPCs that use character classes, but that's the exception, not the norm.

Generally Npc tend to have more attack but less special power and active abilities.

luckly guards and knight don’t have action surge
The DM can’t be expected to track all the npc resource.

 

[TemplarGR]

LOL. Tromokratis is the greek word for terrorist. Just LOL.

 

[underground nymph]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

have you ever even met a munchkin

They are cute:

Spoiler

poor creatures can’t jump properly because of this perverted cuteness.

 

[Xamenos]

Dragon Queen is a deity and is a final boss of Rise of Tiamat, a level 8-15 campaign. Tiamat gets banished (page 88).
You don't know a lot about 5e campaigns, I gather.

You know, you could have lead with that instead of responding with an irrelevant passage from a stupid sourcebook. I would have agreed with you and decried the continued stupidity of 5e. But I suspect you didn't know it at the time, and had to fix your ignorance with some quick googling. And all in order to pretend you know what you're talking about. It would be sad if it wasn't so funny.

Well that book was not written by wizard of the coast
https://www.amazon.it/Sword-Coast-Adventurers-Guide-Wizards/dp/0786965800

“Crafted by the scribes at Green Ronin“
https://greenronin.com/

it’s happened with a pair of campaign book too and they are the worse books of 5e.
They slap wotc logo on it but it’s written externally.

Well, if Wizards didn't want to be blamed for publishing shitty books they didn't write, then they should pay more attention to what they slap their log on, shouldn't they?

 

[Lacrymas]

But soldiers in 5e use the hero rules aswell.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter because we aren't playing a 100 soldiers. And like NJClaw said, NPCs usually don't have character classes, so it's whatever. The rules and I'd say world aren't designed around massive scale armies, it's about sitting around a table with the friends you somehow tricked into playing with you and building an adventuring party. Fighting deities and archdevils shouldn't be a possibility in such a context, that's why I'm saying that's the symptom, not the disease.

 

[Elex]

Well that book was not written by wizard of the coast
https://www.amazon.it/Sword-Coast-Adventurers-Guide-Wizards/dp/0786965800

“Crafted by the scribes at Green Ronin“
https://greenronin.com/

it’s happened with a pair of campaign book too and they are the worse books of 5e.
They slap wotc logo on it but it’s written externally.

Well, if Wizards didn't want to be blamed for publishing shitty books they didn't write, then they should pay more attention to what they slap their log on, shouldn't they?

Tiamat is not killed only banished back in the avernus, 5e don’t put stat on gods so they can’t be killed.
If you destroy tiamat dragon form don’t mean you killed tiamat and now the god is gone.

Another example is bhaal. He is alive. so mortal can’t really kill a god, not even others good can really kill them forever. In 5e all the gods are alive.

Well people care about the book only because have the 2 melee cantrip and a good wizard subclass (reprinted in another book).
This is how wotc fade away books they reprint the stuff in new book.

they also have a rick & morty D&D books...

In short if you want the real answer send a tweet to ED he will answer if in the forgotten realms a mortal can kill a god.

 

[Delterius]

Rule 0 means that the gods are killed by the DM, who chose to withdraw immortality from a god for fun and or plot purposes.