Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FranticDistortion]

Well that book was not written by wizard of the coast
https://www.amazon.it/Sword-Coast-Adventurers-Guide-Wizards/dp/0786965800

“Crafted by the scribes at Green Ronin“
https://greenronin.com/

it’s happened with a pair of campaign book too and they are the worse books of 5e.
They slap wotc logo on it but it’s written externally.

Well, if Wizards didn't want to be blamed for publishing shitty books they didn't write, then they should pay more attention to what they slap their log on, shouldn't they?

Tiamat is not killed only banished back in the avernus, 5e don’t put stat on gods so they can’t be killed.
If you destroy tiamat dragon form don’t mean you killed tiamat and now the god is gone.

Another example is bhaal. He is alive. so mortal can’t really kill a god, not even others good can really kill them forever. In 5e all the gods are alive.

Well people care about the book only because have the 2 melee cantrip and a good wizard subclass (reprinted in another book).
This is how wotc fade away books they reprint the stuff in new book.

they also have a rick & morty D&D books...

In short if you want the real answer send a tweet to ED he will answer if in the forgotten realms a mortal can kill a god.

I meant winning a fight against their mortal coils. Of course mortals can't kill them for good, that would require beating them on their own plane, which is impossible.
I think godkilling should be left to Japanese games, they usually have a lot to spare.

 

[Lacrymas]

Rule 0 means that the gods are killed by the DM, who chose to withdraw immortality from a god for fun and or plot purposes.

That tells us who the real god is, huh.

 

[Spectacle]

But soldiers in 5e use the hero rules aswell. All fighter/archer/guardsman npcs in the monsters manual are build from the fighter class.

No they're not. NPCs in 5E are built with the monster rules. NPCs with class levels are an optional rule.

 

[Delterius]

Rule 0 means that the gods are killed by the DM, who chose to withdraw immortality from a god for fun and or plot purposes.

That tells us who the real god is, huh.

There are three true gods in kind, the Storyteller Demiurge who represents happenstance; the Player Demiurges, who represent volition and the Bitch, also known as Lady Luck or Fate, which exists to refine the aims of the other two.

 

[Silly Germans]

I believe that is a AVATAR of tiamat, no way that non epic PCs can fight deities...

have you ever even met a munchkin

They are cute:

Spoiler

And delicious

Spoiler

 

[Cryomancer]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

Yep. on 3.5e if a adult adult dragon is attacking a village where there are like 100 lv 1~5 militiaman and one fully fledged wizard capable of casting spells up to tier 5 with 10 low level apprentices, the dragon would kill then all easily. On 5e, the situation is the opposite. Numbers are far more important.

And is not as if 2e or 3.5e had that high damage inflation. Fireballs(tier 3) caps at 10d6, delayed blast fireball which is tier 6 caps at 20d6... In fact, on 3.5e a skeleton chieftain could kill 40+ skeletons.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Due to the streamlining of AC and 5es general power balance nerving the world makes zero sense when you think about it. Give me an army of 100 soldiers and a few wizards to cast magical weapon on them and I can kill Tiamat with some moderate tactics.

Yep. on 3.5e if a adult adult dragon is attacking a village where there are like 100 lv 1~5 militiaman and one fully fledged wizard capable of casting spells up to tier 5 with 10 low level apprentices, the dragon would kill then all easily. On 5e, the situation is the opposite. Numbers are far more important.

And is not as if 2e or 3.5e had that high damage inflation. Fireballs(tier 3) caps at 10d6, delayed blast fireball which is tier 6 caps at 20d6... In fact, on 3.5e a skeleton chieftain could kill 40+ skeletons.

It would be weird if 100 soldiers, capable of piercing the dragon in question, wouldn't be able to kill it. I prefer 5e's approach in this case.

 

[Lacrymas]

Given enough numbers and resources, everything can be killed by rolling enough 20s in perhaps all D&D editions. That doesn't mean the system is meant to be used this way. It's like saying "if I had 10 queens in a chess match, I could annihilate the opponent", yes you would do that but the system isn't designed to take that into consideration.

 

[Thac0]

Given enough numbers and resources, everything can be killed by rolling enough 20s in perhaps all D&D editions. That doesn't mean the system is meant to be used this way. It's like saying "if I had 10 queens in a chess match, I could annihilate the opponent", yes you would do that but the system isn't designed to take that into consideration.

Its not really a problem that shows up in video games. But as a DM it can be quite annoying.
Lets say there is a huge melee only beast apporaching a small town. A Tyrranosaurus rex. The party gathers the town guard and leads them into battle. That thing gets slaughtered before it can scale the walls when you actually let the guards do their job and dont fudge their rolls.
Also its a bit strange when you think about how much firepower a city has in 5e. The city of Baldurs Gate probably has enough high level archers and mages to slaughter that hell plane lord angel that has been given a stat block and lead a crusade to conquer the first plane of hell.
But since as a Dm are omnipotent you can straighten those kinks out rahter easily. It just that the system when played Rules as Written leads to some strange situations.

 

[Cryomancer]

It would be weird if 100 soldiers, capable of piercing the dragon in question, wouldn't be able to kill it. I prefer 5e's approach in this case.

Except that Tiamat is supposed to be a deity. Anything weaker than the strongest epic weapon and strongest spell should't even scratch a deity... That was the case on 3.5e.

everything can be killed by rolling enough 20s

Not true. To mention some things that ALL deities has on 3.5e >

]Always Maximize Roll
Greater deities (rank 16-20) automatically get the best result possible on any check, saving throw, attack roll, or damage roll. Calculate success, failure, or other effects accordingly. When a greater deity makes a check, attack, or save assume a 20 was rolled and calculate success or failure from there. A d20 should still be rolled and used to check for a threat of a critical hit. This quality means that greater deities never need the Maximize Spell feat, because their spells have maximum effect already.

Deity Damage Reduction

• Quasi-deity (0) 10/epic
• Demigod (1-5) 15/epic
• Lesser deity (11-15) 20/epic
• Intermediate deity (11-15) 25/epic
• Greater deity (16-20) 30/epic

Spell Resistance
A deity has spell resistance of 32 + its divine rank.

source > http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm

--------------------------

That means that a soldier with a heavy crossbow(d10) will need to score a critical to damage even the weakest quasi deity with divine rank = 0. And will just deal zero damage on anything above the weakest lesser deity, even with criticals. Magicians in other hands, in order to a sorcerer makes any spell works against the weakest quasi deity, he needs to be at least lv 12 and even in that case, is only 5% of chance on hitting the weakest quasy deity. Of course i an not considering spell penetration, it would reduce the minimum level required to 8.

And even if you pick greater spell penetration(+4 to penetrate spell resistance), a lv 20 magician will have little chances ot hitting any deity ( 24 + D20 ) VS ( 32 + deity rank ) and any greater deity is literally out of grasp. And if he uses any spell which doesn't allow SR, the deity will get 20 on saves. And keep in mind that deities of rank 1 and above can easily create magical items which can give more SR, have followers, a divine realm where he can teleport back and if fighting a deity outside of his plane is already hard enough, imagine fighting on his realm.

If dragonic auras already are a pain in the **** mainly when the dragon dispels protections, imagine the deity's aura... Tiamat in other hands on 5e, looks like just a Giant multihead lizard. Not much different than a dragon. Gods should be epic. Kraken should be a poodle compared to any water deity.

"but you can fight lantern king on kingmaker" yes, but you weaken him a lot and is a party vs him.

-------------------------

Anyway, i an happy to see that they only ruined Tiamat on 5e. I an of the opinion that not including something is better than ruining it. And thus, the lv cap = 10 from BG3 doesn't seem that bad. Between it or ruining all high level spells... I just wish that the lv cap was 12, so we can see fighters with 3 attacks per rounds and other interesting stuff.

 

[Yosharian]

WTF is a 'magician'

 

[anvi]

WTF is a 'magician'

 

[Yosharian]

Given enough numbers and resources, everything can be killed by rolling enough 20s in perhaps all D&D editions. That doesn't mean the system is meant to be used this way. It's like saying "if I had 10 queens in a chess match, I could annihilate the opponent", yes you would do that but the system isn't designed to take that into consideration.

Its not really a problem that shows up in video games. But as a DM it can be quite annoying.
Lets say there is a huge melee only beast apporaching a small town. A Tyrranosaurus rex. The party gathers the town guard and leads them into battle. That thing gets slaughtered before it can scale the walls when you actually let the guards do their job and dont fudge their rolls.
Also its a bit strange when you think about how much firepower a city has in 5e. The city of Baldurs Gate probably has enough high level archers and mages to slaughter that hell plane lord angel that has been given a stat block and lead a crusade to conquer the first plane of hell.
But since as a Dm are omnipotent you can straighten those kinks out rahter easily. It just that the system when played Rules as Written leads to some strange situations.

Yeah and can you get all those spellcasters and archers to work together peacefully? Most likely they'd spend as much time killing each other as they would killing any demon lord that might try to attack BG

 

[Lacrymas]

everything can be killed by rolling enough 20s

Not true. To mention some things that ALL deities has on 3.5e >

I wasn't talking about level 1 soldiers, but any kind of level 1s. A legion of level 1 wizards with a Finger of Death scroll can eventually kill any deity because damage reduction only works on weapons, not spells.

 

[Elex]

That tells us who the real god is, huh.

The one that bring beer and snaks for the session.

 

[Cryomancer]

WTF is a 'magician'

Any dedicated caster. Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Druids, Clerics...

I wasn't talking about level 1 soldiers, but any kind of level 1s. A legion of level 1 wizards with a Finger of Death scroll can eventually kill any deity because damage reduction only works on weapons, not spells.

They will never pass even the spell resistance of the deity.But first they need to activate the scroll AND not be affected by the deity's aura among other things... This assuming that the deity will do nothing by seeing a army of necromancers casting spells on her. In reality, the deity will stop the time, cast some nasty spells far above circle 9 and teleport to her godly realm.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wasn't talking about level 1 soldiers, but any kind of level 1s. A legion of level 1 wizards with a Finger of Death scroll can eventually kill any deity because damage reduction only works on weapons, not spells.

They will never pass even the spell resistance of the deity.But first they need to activate the scroll AND not be affected by the deity's aura among other things.

A scroll is cast at the caster level needed to cast the spell in question. Level 1 necromancers with the spell penetration feat can bypass the spell resistances on a high enough roll. It doesn't matter what the deity can do or can't do, my point was that with enough 20s everything can eventually be killed. Even then, Time Stop doesn't allow you to hurt others while in effect, so whatever.

 

[Thac0]

I wasn't talking about level 1 soldiers, but any kind of level 1s. A legion of level 1 wizards with a Finger of Death scroll can eventually kill any deity because damage reduction only works on weapons, not spells.

They will never pass even the spell resistance of the deity.But first they need to activate the scroll AND not be affected by the deity's aura among other things.

A scroll is cast at the caster level needed to cast the spell in question. Level 1 necromancers with the spell penetration feat can bypass the spell resistances on a high enough roll. It doesn't matter what the deity can do or can't do, my point was that with enough 20s everything can eventually be killed. Even then, Time Stop doesn't allow you to hurt others while in effect, so whatever.

Still for that you need a very unnatural and deliberate amount of units. A swarm of casters equipped with specific feats and hundreds of scrolls worth thousands of gold coins is not something that just roams the world.
My problem with 5e is that naturally occuring groups of humans are way too powerfull compared to supernatural beings. A normal castle garrison could kill a god. The only thing protecting them is the immunity to nonmagical damage from most sources.
So for high fantasy settings you need to do a lot of botching to make them work with 5e.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's only if we assume the castle garrison soldiers have class levels, which they don't. Maybe only the commander.

 

[Cryomancer]

I wasn't talking about level 1 soldiers, but any kind of level 1s. A legion of level 1 wizards with a Finger of Death scroll can eventually kill any deity because damage reduction only works on weapons, not spells.

They will never pass even the spell resistance of the deity.But first they need to activate the scroll AND not be affected by the deity's aura among other things.

A scroll is cast at the caster level needed to cast the spell in question. Level 1 necromancers with the spell penetration feat can bypass the spell resistances on a high enough roll. It doesn't matter what the deity can do or can't do, my point was that with enough 20s everything can eventually be killed. Even then, Time Stop doesn't allow you to hurt others while in effect, so whatever.

With greater penetration, they will have like +5 to bypass SP and deities generally have more than 30 SR. Greater deities with 50+ SR are not uncommon.

As for stop time, there are spells which long last duration times that will affect the army after the time is back to normal.
Deities can cast for eg, Mavin's create volcano and Tolodine's killing wind. Both are the high fantasy version of a TSAR bomba. If you believe that tier 7~9 magic is OP, you certain don't know much about Netheril's high level magic. The difference between Cloudkill to Tolodin's Killing Wind is like the difference between a grenade and a tsar bomba.

And since deities are immune to level drain, they can use it without the cost on level. Quoting Netheril : The Empire of Magic - page 143.

People underestimate deities. Karsus which was AT LEAST LV 40 could't save Netheril by any means, so he decided to try to archive godhood because as a deity, he could save Netheril. His plan failed but

 

[panik]

Everytime I see that D:OS crate moving mechanic and hear talk about being able to build stairs like in Ultima 7, I pray I can once again throw shit diapers at my enemies to stun them.

 

[Cael]

Everytime I see that D:OS crate moving mechanic and hear talk about being able to build stairs like in Ultima 7, I pray I can once again throw shit diapers at my enemies to stun them.

It wasn't a stun. It was an eternal duration Fear spell with no save.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Everytime I see that D:OS crate moving mechanic and hear talk about being able to build stairs like in Ultima 7, I pray I can once again throw shit diapers at my enemies to stun them.

Don't see that working on gobbos, orcs or undead.

 

[Lacrymas]

With greater penetration, they will have like +5 to bypass SP and deities generally have more than 30 SR. Greater deities with 50+ SR are not uncommon.

Like I said, scrolls are cast at the minimum level required, which is 17 for Finger of Death. Scrolls are NOT affected by the low level of a caster. So, 20 from a roll + 17 from caster scroll level + 5 from greater Pen is 42. The thing you posted says they have 32 + their deity rank, sooooo I don't see where you are getting that 50+ from. If the first legion of wizards are dead, the second one is going to come right after, the god will eventually run out of AoE spells.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Another example is bhaal. He is alive. so mortal can’t really kill a god, not even others good can really kill them forever. In 5e all the gods are alive.

Is Myrkul still around in 5e? Is MOTB canon to Forgotten Realms? Doesn't Akachi's hunger devour Myrkul's soul husk?