Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[AwesomeButton]

Thanks, Jinn. I don't like Larian's games at all. I'm only going to cover BG3 because it's WotC-sanctioned canon, and cannot be ignored. I ignored their Divinity franchise entirely: beneath contempt. I screened out any comments that praised it over the classics.

I didn't expect you to treat a 3rd person action game seriously just because they've named it BG3. I wonder, by what standards will you be evaluating its RPG qualities? You wrote something about holding it up to the classics, but I don't see how this will work.

How do you know that it's a third person action game?

Well that's the most likely guess atm. They won't admit it's isometric, meaning it likely isn't. Because you could admit its isometric and it could still be turn based or RTWP. Plus Sven said something about there being no misses because it's boring. Seems likely to be some sort of Dragon Age 2 like action with pause game.

It's a guess, based on Sven's talk of "very high production values" and "missing isn't fun", but mostly on the fact that they are keeping that answer under wraps. I don't think they've ever hid such a detail about an upcoming game. Also, as it has been pointed out in this thread - after the age of Skyrim, triple-A RPG developers and their sources of funding now live in the age of GTA5 and Witcher 3.

I guess they are counting on it being a big hype generator - "See the city of Baldur's Gate from the inside/through the eyes of your character for the first time in D&D gaming", such sort of thing. Then Sven shows up and starts drooling about how they had a genius orginal story with incredible emotional impact, and one morning he woke up and he realized that they can't do it justice with an isometric game, rushed down to the office in his underpants and screamed "everyone stop working, we are switching to 3rd person!!!" And all Larian employees burst into spontaneous applause.

 

[Ulrox]

I'll bet Beam-mutt are happy flogging extra EEs, too.

I doubt it. Beamdog's ultimate goal was always to do a Baldur's gate 3. Can't imagine Trent Oster feeling good after having spent years working towards this goal, and then Larian swooping in and getting to do it. It's probably bittersweet.

 

[Jinn]

I doubt it. Beamdog's ultimate goal was always to do a Baldur's gate 3. Can't imagine Trent Oster feeling good after having spent years working towards this goal, and then Larian swooping in and getting to do it. It's probably bittersweet.

Even Trent Oster can't be blind to the the mediocrity of Beamdog. As if anyone would have put Baldur's Gate III into the hands of such incompetency. Imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.

 

[Lilura]

I doubt it. Beamdog's ultimate goal was always to do a Baldur's gate 3. Can't imagine Trent Oster feeling good after having spent years working towards this goal, and then Larian swooping in and getting to do it. It's probably bittersweet.

As their EEs and expansion interquel demonstrated, Beamdog lacked the aptitude to develop BG3. Larian, a much bigger developer with a much better track record, still experienced difficulty convincing Wizards of the Coast that they were up to the challenge. I don't think Beamdog are butthurt.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I don't think Beamdog are butthurt

I doubt it.

 

[turkishronin]

What if it's... first person

 

[Jarpie]

I doubt it. Beamdog's ultimate goal was always to do a Baldur's gate 3. Can't imagine Trent Oster feeling good after having spent years working towards this goal, and then Larian swooping in and getting to do it. It's probably bittersweet.

Even Trent Oster can't be blind to the the mediocrity of Beamdog. As if anyone would have put Baldur's Gate III into the hands of such incompetency. Imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.

It'd been lot more entertaining to laugh at their miserable failure than the banal boring shit mediocrity by Larian which just gets "meh"-reaction.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I doubt it. Beamdog's ultimate goal was always to do a Baldur's gate 3. Can't imagine Trent Oster feeling good after having spent years working towards this goal, and then Larian swooping in and getting to do it. It's probably bittersweet.

As their EEs and expansion interquel demonstrated, Beamdog lacked the aptitude to develop BG3. Larian, a much bigger developer with a much better track record, still experienced difficulty convincing Wizards of the Coast that they were up to the challenge. I don't think Beamdog are butthurt.

I doubt the problem lies within Larian or Beamdog but instead on WOTC. WOTC clearly doesn't want just another niche CRPG. They want something with much boarder appeal. Just look at their licensed video games post NVWN2. Beamdog proposal would have them use the Infinity Engine which is old as fuck. Larian, based on the interview that their initial proposal was also rejected. At that time they just finished a successful D:OS which means their proposal should be a TB or at least RTwP.

Now we have a 300 people team working on this game. This will be an action video game. Even the RPG part is doubtful at this point.

 

[Lilura]

As if anyone would have put Baldur's Gate III into the hands of such incompetency. Imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.

Well said. They unwittingly inflicted so much damage with their EEs: it divided the community. And then SoD turned the fanbase toxic. The BG community was great before Beamdog came along. Now, it's insufferable.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The BG community was great before Beamdog came along.

I dunno, you still had that Saerileth nutcase back then.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

As if anyone would have put Baldur's Gate III into the hands of such incompetency. Imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.

Well said. They unwittingly inflicted so much damage with their EEs: it divided the community. And then SoD turned the fanbase toxic. The BG community was great before Beamdog came along. Now, it's insufferable.

Lol this is clearly not right. BG community was always part of more toxic part of gaming community. The old guard conservative gamer who would be triggered by anything not "pure". It just SoD became the trigger of such toxicity. Removing SoD from the picture, if BG 3 by whoever was actually made and dare to be more liberal in view reflected in the game, the fanbase would still explode with toxicity. While some part of the Codex certainly grumbled over the lore accuracy of the game, most part of the internet is on "REEEEEEE SJW REEEEE" train. The problem of course could be avoided by: 1. better writing 2. not fucking up the PR by letting that Amber or whoever the writer was to lash back at the community with her woke comments, but it doesn't change the fact the very BG (or may CRPG in general) community is like that. Blaming Beamdog for BG community toxicity is like saying "The Nazi are cool if only there is no Jew to be gassed."

 

[Lilura]

Just look at their licensed video games post NVWN2.

I don't blame WotC. There were no good devs around in that period. I wish TSR still helmed D&D, but I still have some faith in WotC because of their 5th Edition.

 

[Ulrox]

Well said. They unwittingly inflicted so much damage with their EEs: it divided the community. And then SoD turned the fanbase toxic. The BG community was great before Beamdog came along. Now, it's insufferable.

This was going to happen regardless. It's a thing I've noticed happening all over the internet. Back when the internet first began, it was only advanced users who were able, or cared, to go online. As time passes, and as the internet has gotten easier to access, communities that used to be amazing, has slowly gotten worse and worse.

 

[Lilura]

Well, I was there at the beginning of BG and then when those EEs were announced. I saw what happened. Many of the best posters left. I left for several years, too. So it's your word against mine.

 

[Stella Brando]

It would be nice to see Throne of Bhaal remade - using all the original systems - as a full game. Story wise, it's the third part of a trilogy anyway. It just lacks a lot of details, exploration and options.

Then let them do whatever they have to do with a brand new trilogy.

 

[Spectacle]

I understand that's the canon, but that old model doesn't really make sense. How did Gods die before then? Planescape was 2e and definitely had the belief aspect in there, which just leads me to believe Greenwood didn't think much about it before 3e and then "fixed" it when he realized his mistake.

The whole Time of Troubles affair was basically an in-setting justification for the changes in AD&D from 1e to 2e, just like the Spellplague was for the changes from 3rd to 4th edition, and the Sundering from 4 to 5. These mega-events in the forgotten realms don't happen just for fun.

 

[Andhaira]

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe they seriously considered RTwP + over the shoulder camera in the vein of DA:O and they might go with that, but I don't see right now them going for a single character action rpg like Witcher or Skyrim.

 

[m_s0]

If they're keeping a roughly IE style of gameplay, but making it TPP, hacking together an isometric camera and getting a playable result shouldn't be that big of an issue. Especially if they plan for it a bit ahead.

 

[Ulrox]

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe they seriously considered RTwP + over the shoulder camera in the vein of DA:O and they might go with that, but I don't see right now them going for a single character action rpg like Witcher or Skyrim.

They said it wasn't going to be turn based, but they also said they started out by copying everything from 5th edition, so my bet is on real time with pause. The action game is just codex being triggered by anything that sounds even remotely like an appeal to mass markets.

 

[Xeon]

It would be nice to see Throne of Bhaal remade - using all the original systems - as a full game. Story wise, it's the third part of a trilogy anyway. It just lacks a lot of details, exploration and options.

Then let them do whatever they have to do with a brand new trilogy.

First time I played ToB, I thought we will have to deal with the country that sent troops to the Oasis after dealing with Yaga-Shura, but after that bit I don't think there was anything related to them again, would have been kinda cool to see more.

 

[Fairfax]

I doubt the problem lies within Larian or Beamdog but instead on WOTC. WOTC clearly doesn't want just another niche CRPG. They want something with much boarder appeal. Just look at their licensed video games post NVWN2.

WotC sucks at licensing games, but the licence was held by Atari at the time. Atari later breached their contract, so Hasbro sued them and got the rights back in 2011.

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Because the D:OS games may be popular, but their success still pales in comparison to giants such as Skyrim, The Witcher 3, and even Dragon Age. Swen has talked for years about making 'the big RPG to dwarf them all', and BG3 is a step in that direction:

But for Larian, Baldur's Gate is just another step down the road toward what Vincke really wants: making the ultimate RPG. "We have a 'very big RPG to dwarf them all' plan. There are a bunch of things that we need to grow. This is part of that," he says.

Swen also tripled the studio's size to make this game, and Larian is going pay royalties this time around. He must expect BG3 to sell 3-5x what D:OS2 sold, which would be extremely hard to achieve with turn-based combat.

 

[Curratum]

Anyone who thinks a game with close-up facial mo-cap is going to be turn-based is seriously delusional.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe they seriously considered RTwP + over the shoulder camera in the vein of DA:O and they might go with that, but I don't see right now them going for a single character action rpg like Witcher or Skyrim.

Everyone here is assuming Larian loves making turn-based, top-down CRPGs, but why? They didn’t make D:OS the way it was as a passion project, it’s just as likely that they only did it for the Kickstarter money. Or because that’s what the isometric CRPG audience wanted. But that’s still a small audience relative to action games.

Who’s to say they don’t enjoy making action games? The last time Larian had a modest amount of success, they immediately made a single character 3D ARPG for fuck’s sake. This is also a format they know and potentially love. Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity were basically Diablo knockoffs.

Mainly, though, I’m convinced it’s an ARPG because of Swen’s comments. He says missing because of dice is no fun in a video game, but there’s no other way to miss in a CRPG unless it’s an action RPG. At best, it’s going to be a newer Dragon Age style game that feels like action combat even though it’s really garbage RTwP. No other way to justify having 300 people on staff making this thing.

...and I was just ninjaed by Fairfax

 

[volklore]

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe they seriously considered RTwP + over the shoulder camera in the vein of DA:O and they might go with that, but I don't see right now them going for a single character action rpg like Witcher or Skyrim.

There is nothing confirmed yet. People are going off the fact that despite the high number of interviews, none of them mentions the game view or combat system, which is strange indeed, and could be interpreted as trying to hide the major changes to the game's core gameplay/visual identity to the 'old guard' BG fan. Swen also said the infamous 'missing is no fun'.

 

[Lacrymas]

Does BG hold so much sway in the mainstream for Swen to think it's going to garner enough sales as an AAA game demands? Seems like a long-shot and fabulous optimism.

could be interpreted as trying to hide the major changes to the game's core gameplay/visual identity to the 'old guard' BG fan.

Piggy-backing off my previous statement - I think they are hiding it because they know only people who actually like BG already are currently interested in the project. They also know there will be a bloody riot if they announce it as an action game this early before cultivating attention from the mainstream, souring PR.