Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

If this game does amass a hate train it'll be due to pushing political agendas or gay stuff and it'll be mostly reported on by low effort outrage channels. Things related to the finer points of game design will take a backseat the second you have the Youtube vultures catch wind of anything they can make 10-20 minute rant videos on.

Should the only problems with this game be concerning whether it's RTwP vs. TB I really don't think would be this huge deal breaker for most people in general gaming. It'd matter to hardcore RPG fans for different reasons, but to the Steam kiddie who gets swept up in streamer hype or sees a sale? I doubt they give a shit and will probably drop the game after 6 hours anyways.

 

[Shrimp]

Forum goers tend to overestimate the importance of other vocal forum goers going autistically into systems details. They'd antagonize a minority but a lot of the people who played the DOS don't really care about turn based combat and whatever else. I have friends who aren't massive RPG buffs who bought DOS solely for the coop. I'm talking about the sort of people who'd play any mainstream pseudo RPG.
"antagonizing" fans doesn't mean shit. Most people don't consider brand purity when they buy games. They either like the game or they don't and you'll find most DOS players aren't the high brow discriminating taste you think they are.

Spoiler

I mean.......

Mind you that some of those posters aren't necessarily DOS players. They could just as easily be other people who for various reasons wish to express their hopes, fears or demands about the game.
Either way I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish. I might be wrong here but I can't think of any studios or developers who aren't tiny indie companies who use the Steam forums as their primary source of user feedback.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

The fate of Faerûn lies in your hands. Alone, you may resist.

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

Well, that's kind of what DnD is usually.

I mean look at the progression.

ODD - ADND1e: Go into tomb, steal gold, don't die.
ADND2e: Go on Epic Quests and Save the World
3e: And Save the World, but you can crazy fine-tune your character
4e: And Save the World, but you can make the best wargame char ever
5e: And Save the World, but the """challenge""" of building a good character is gone now

It's funny, too, because all of the most beloved and well regarded modules were just adventures that usually did not involve saving the world. Ravenloft is just "kill dracula in his castle"(although you could roll on the optional "Strahd's evil plan" table, but generally that wasn't necessary and wasnt in any of the original playtesting). Tomb of Horrors was written because Gary got called out for shitting gold and magic items onto his players too much. Isle of Dread is just....it's just you exploring an island, that's it. Nothing special or overly interesting. Keep on the Borderlands is just hanging out dealing with a local conflict.

The ones that did involve saving the world didn't usually take multiple sessions or an entire campaign like they do now. Usually it's some fuck-ass cult that's summoning an evil thing and then you stop it. The Temple of Elemental Evil 5e adventure is a full blown level 1-15 campaign that would probably take a full year of sessions to get through culminating in a epic fight against the elemental lords! Very little of DnD is nuanced or small these days. Nobody wants "Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser deal with a freaky monster", they want Lord of the Ringshit

Last time I was a DM I had my players retrieve a local farm girls prized pig she was about to enter into the pig contest at the local fair, another farmer had some kobolds steal the pig because he wanted his son to win the contest since the girls family almost always won the contest every year. Anyhow, I hate saving the world shit, it seems to make for terrible story telling for the most part. Not always of course.

 

[Lutte]

Look at Anthem, Fallout 76 and Andromeda

They're all three different cases and the bandwagoning had differing causes none of which involve :monocle: pro advanced systems fans.
Anthem is a Destiny clone with almost no content. Dead on arrival stuff. There wasn't much hatred early on. Heck even now I'm not sure I'd use the word hatred, it's more of a forgotten game and mainstream gamers disappointed to have sank $60 on this.

Fallout 76 is a broken game beyond recognition. It could have released with npcs and quests ala Fallout 4 and it would still have gotten panned because it's just that broken. The way Bethesda handled the shitshow and kept adding oil to the flames really didn't help either.

Andromeda had shitty production value for an AAA game and that's unforgivable for mainstream gamers. This is what killed the game more than any issue with its systems.

Larian can make an action game and tell TB fans to fuck off. All they need to do is avoid those mainstream sins. Don't make an ugly ass game with low prod value. Don't make it so full of crashes, bugs and glitches that even average gamers find it unplayable. Don't make something with a lot less content than expected by the audience.

 

[Lilura]

WOW! Lilura favorably reviewed my first game on her blog.
Thank you! I'm happy when I see others are happy because of my games

What game was that?

***

In regards to the perspective, the Electron cam's strategy mode beats everything handsdown. Not even the Eclipse cam in Origins was as powerful and versatile in tactics mode.

Larian can give over-the-shoulder to the story-mode/immershun 'tards (similar to The Witcher 1) but no Baldur's Gate game that lacks a tactical viewpoint is acceptable. Remember the Odyssey cam in KotOR/II? Just awful console-'tard shit.

I know the Electron cam had its issues with steeper terrain undulation, doorways and overall optimization, but it's conceptually supreme and the angles you could fix and then track along like a dolly-cam were impressive. Put that into an optimized engine with a TBT combat system and they'd be on the right track.

 

[smaug]

So, Lilura you would say ToEE, and JA2 are better than D:OS’ns? I will play them now and you have me convinced

 

[Ulrox]

Mind you that some of those posters aren't necessarily DOS players. They could just as easily be other people who for various reasons wish to express their hopes, fears or demands about the game.
Either way I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish. I might be wrong here but I can't think of any studios or developers who aren't tiny indie companies who use the Steam forums as their primary source of user feedback.

Good point, I just find the whole generalizing all DOS players as being a certain kind of person, to be silly and pointless, because you really can't define a person from what kind of game they play. It's similar to saying that because someone likes metal, they are a certain kind of person, or because they like a certain tv-show, they must be a certain way.

It's a circlejerk, where people are just confirming that they are superior to other people, which, reminds me of high school perhaps a bit too much.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Swen Vincke is one of those men whose hair went white early, like Steve Martin. It looks like it happened between Beyond Divinity and Divinity 2.

2004:

2009:

wow, if somebody said he was 70 I might believe them (not in the above picture, but in a recent photo)..he has aged quickly..I guess its the hair loss and color

 

[OldNorseSaga]

I heard he hated D2DC

 

[Ulrox]

So, Lilura you would say ToEE, and JA2 are better than D:OS’ns? I will play them now and you have me convinced

I was wondering why I kept feeling like I knew where your avatar was from. Then it hit me, it's from pools of darkness and or other goldbox games. Pretty nice.

 

[Spectacle]

If this game does amass a hate train it'll be due to pushing political agendas or gay stuff and it'll be mostly reported on by low effort outrage channels. Things related to the finer points of game design will take a backseat the second you have the Youtube vultures catch wind of anything they can make 10-20 minute rant videos on.

More likely, the regular suspects will try to frame any fan-outrage as Angry White Males upset about politics even when 95% of the anger is because of the gameplay.

 

[Thonius]

Does BG hold so much sway in the mainstream for Swen to think it's going to garner enough sales as an AAA game demands? Seems like a long-shot and fabulous optimism.

could be interpreted as trying to hide the major changes to the game's core gameplay/visual identity to the 'old guard' BG fan.

Piggy-backing off my previous statement - I think they are hiding it because they know only people who actually like BG already are currently interested in the project. They also know there will be a bloody riot if they announce it as an action game this early before cultivating attention from the mainstream, souring PR.

Old nerds will do some heavy lifting by commenting and shitposting in YouTube and forums. Naturally new fold will catch up because they are sheep. Even our rage fuels PR machine...

 

[Atlantico]

The whole Time of Troubles affair was basically an in-setting justification for the changes in AD&D from 1e to 2e

AFAIK was no change between 1st and 2nd editions with regards to gods, if anything the 2nd edition took the idea of killing a god off the table - an idea which did exist in 1st edition.

After all, 2nd edition was not a re-write like the munchkin 3rd edition was, but a polished, marketable, organized and playtested 1st edition. The rules are the same between them, the tables are the same, the classes are the same - with some minor nips and tucks. It's perfectly reasonable to consider the 1st and 2nd edition to be the same game and the denomination 2nd edition fits very well.

The Times of Trouble affair was written with much fanfare from TSR, to change the setting, so TSR had a plausible reason to sell the Forgotten Realms setting again (now in a gold box!) and all the new source books. The map changed, new characters were introduced, the factions evolved and so on.

The Avatar trilogy was not written to clarify gods in the FR or their relationship with 2nd edition AD&D.

It was written for marketing reasons, to encourage people to buy the 2nd edition FR boxed set, because otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to do that - the difference between 1st and 2nd edition AD&D didn't really affect the FR setting.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Behold. I'm back: bigger, badder and better than before.

What brought me back? Baldur's Gate 3.

For those who don't know who I am, please allow me to introduce myself: my name is Lilura. I'm better than you because I have a blog that garners millions of views per year, and you are naught but a shitposter lost in the shuffle, and unread. You are but a gnat compared to my power.

That's right: I have a blog. It's a big blog. A big Baldur's Gate blog. Built by me from the ground up. Not a cent has been invested and not a cent has been requested. I can neither be bought, bargained with nor reasoned with. This is pure power-blogging at work.

My blog started off small and then BOOM - Lilura ruled. The incline steepened acutely. Stack me up against other commentators. Oh, that's right. You can't because I've crushed the competition with my King Content. These impudent, spineless and fickle upstarts pulled the plug when they realized they couldn't compete. They looked upon my write-ups and despaired.

In this (admittedly limited) sphere of human endeavour, I am the butthurt generator par excellence. I've written off people here, there and everywhere, I've deleted hundreds of comments, blocked all kinds of posters, conducted what amounts to a blog-wide purge, and yet I'm still number one, still on top, indeed, still soaring above and looking DOWN, because no one can doubt my integrity, dedication and passion for Renaissance-era RPGs such as Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Jagged Alliance 2. When it comes to defending the legacies of these classics against criticisms based on degenerate current gen fads, trends and "sensibilities", I have been, are now, and always will be poised.

This announcement of BG3 will only reinforce my dominance of the Baldur's Gate narrative: I will leverage my prolific extant commentary in order to push my BG3 commentary to the apex and forefront. This is grave news for those who have posted against me in the past out of petty spite, but good news for everyone else.

Looking forward to watching my blogstats incline by an order of magnitude as a direct result of this announcement. This is going to be good.

I never knew there was a lot of money or cut throat competition in baldurs gate blogging nostalgia.

Anyhow, I wish you really did look like that picture you posted above with the monocle and were not a 56 year old balding male, but I suppose it does not really matter one way or the other, and I do actually enjoy your reading blog. I have read it in the past and am glad you will be posting about BG3.

 

[vortex]

Fextralife: "So, this is your dream game?"
Swen said : "One of them."

Could it be they've licenced another game? Makes you think.

Timestamp:
https://youtu.be/Ju12JNh8gJs?t=788

 

[hexer]

WOW! Lilura favorably reviewed my first game on her blog.
Thank you! I'm happy when I see others are happy because of my games

What game was that?

I'll leave a comment on your blog, under the review

 

[Strange Fellow]

He says missing because of dice is no fun in a video game, but there’s no other way to miss in a CRPG unless it’s an action RPG.

I must repeat myself: he has already made a turn-based CRPG with practically no misses. The focus on dice is entirely your interpretation.

only people who actually like BG already are currently interested in the project.

I doubt this is right either. Why wouldn't Larian fans be interested, or D&D fans for that matter?

 

[Cael]

Look at Anthem, Fallout 76 and Andromeda

They're all three different cases and the bandwagoning had differing causes none of which involve :monocle: pro advanced systems fans.
Anthem is a Destiny clone with almost no content. Dead on arrival stuff. There wasn't much hatred early on. Heck even now I'm not sure I'd use the word hatred, it's more of a forgotten game and mainstream gamers disappointed to have sank $60 on this.

Fallout 76 is a broken game beyond recognition. It could have released with npcs and quests ala Fallout 4 and it would still have gotten panned because it's just that broken. The way Bethesda handled the shitshow and kept adding oil to the flames really didn't help either.

Andromeda had shitty production value for an AAA game and that's unforgivable for mainstream gamers. This is what killed the game more than any issue with its systems.

Larian can make an action game and tell TB fans to fuck off. All they need to do is avoid those mainstream sins. Don't make an ugly ass game with low prod value. Don't make it so full of crashes, bugs and glitches that even average gamers find it unplayable. Don't make something with a lot less content than expected by the audience.

You missed out the last one: "Mods will fix it" is a death sentence.

 

[Jinn]

I'll leave a comment on your blog, under the review

If you're being serious and really want to make people happy with your game, why wouldn't you just say its name in this thread? Why are you being weird about it?

 

[AwesomeButton]

The old guard conservative gamer who would be triggered by anything not "pure".

I know an old guard D&D player who was triggered when the original BG came out because, according to him, turning PnP into a videogame is just teasing a player with the promise of a good PnP-like experience while actually it's just a videogame, where you don't roleplay but you look for optimal behavior in order to win.

Are we sure its not going to be isometric and/or turn based? Given Larian's success with the DOS games, and that they were granted the license based on those games, why would they suddenly bandon the format they know and love and switch to an action game?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe they seriously considered RTwP + over the shoulder camera in the vein of DA:O and they might go with that, but I don't see right now them going for a single character action rpg like Witcher or Skyrim.

I missed the bunch of answers to this question, but I think there is no way it's going to be isometric. The question I'm asking myself is kind of what you are mentioning:
If they do an over the shoulder 3rd person camera, then this would mean that companions will not be controllable during combat. Outside of combat, we may have something like setting of tactics, weapons, behaviors, but during combat they would be on their own, a la skyrim.
This prospect goes against the attributed "Party interaction will be a big thing" but that may have been said just in relation to party interaction outside of combat, connected to the story, inter-companion relations, etc.

I think it's most likely they are going for a hybrid system similar to DA:I where they had this superfluous "tactical camera" where you could zoom out and give individual commands, but in my 80 hours with DA:I I don't think I played one encounter where I needed such control, even on harder difficulty.

Even by WoTC's perspective I fail to see how resurrecting BG to make an ARPG is a good idea

They've done bigger mistakes in the past in terms of licensing.

Larian can give over-the-shoulder to the story-mode/immershun 'tards (similar to The Witcher 1) but no Baldur's Gate game that lacks a tactical viewpoint is acceptable. Remember the Odyssey cam in KotOR/II? Just awful console-'tard shit.

This and other opinions to the effect of "maybe they'll have a meaningful rules-based combat in addition to the twitch combat" boil down to "maybe they'll make two games" because the combat system is ultimately the defining system of an RPG. You decide how probable this is to happen.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's going to be either like DA, where you can switch freely between companions and the PC, but with a 3rd person camera, or be like Bethesda's abortions, i.e. a single companion who you can't control escorts you everywhere. I'm not entirely opposed to the 3rd person camera; yeah, it's a bit clunky when trying to control a party, but it doesn't dictate how the combat system is going to be like.

 

[Cael]

It's going to be either like DA, where you can switch freely between companions and the PC, but with a 3rd person camera, or be like Bethesda's abortions, i.e. a single companion who you can't control escorts you everywhere

I wish someone would make something like FOT. RT until combat starts and then it goes TB (or RT if you so prefer; no pause, though). I haven't seen anyone else able to do that, for some reason.

 

[Tacgnol]

It's going to be either like DA, where you can switch freely between companions and the PC, but with a 3rd person camera, or be like Bethesda's abortions, i.e. a single companion who you can't control escorts you everywhere. I'm not entirely opposed to the 3rd person camera; yeah, it's a bit clunky when trying to control a party, but it doesn't dictate how the combat system is going to be like.

My money will be on a choice of third person or isometric for exploration and maybe a forced isometric perspective for combat.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

[
Everyone here is assuming Larian loves making turn-based, top-down CRPGs, but why? They didn’t make D:OS the way it was as a passion project, it’s just as likely that they only did it for the Kickstarter money. Or because that’s what the isometric CRPG audience wanted. But that’s still a small audience relative to action games.

Who’s to say they don’t enjoy making action games? The last time Larian had a modest amount of success, they immediately made a single character 3D ARPG for fuck’s sake. This is also a format they know and potentially love. Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity were basically Diablo knockoffs.

Doesn't mean that they'd never make an "Action" RPG ever again, naturally.

 

[Ulrox]

My money will be on a choice of third person or isometric for exploration and maybe a forced isometric perspective for combat.

I bet you will be exploring the world in third person, and then suddenly, RANDOM ENCOUNTER, out of the blue! Intense battle music! And a monster appears! It's a goblin! It takes forth a 20 die and it rolls it against your AC. You, being the mighty warrior that you are, take forth your own twenty sided dice, and you roll it, and you hit the goblin, then you roll for damage, and as you are using your long sword, you roll a 8 sided dice, then you deal 5 damage, and you kill the goblin!

Yes, monsters and heroes who uses dice, that will totally be how it's going to be!