Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Swen]

Because not prioritizing refugees over your own must be evil.

Stop projecting "current day" politics on this simple quest line.

 

[Rhobar121]

For me the game fails in a certain regard as roleplaying. There are only two ways to play: good guy who goes out of their way to help everyone. Chaotic evil murder hobo.

There is no Lawful neutral or Lawful evil pragmatist which is my preferred way to play. Playing evil actually makes everything harder while losing out on vendors, loot, ect. There's pretty much only a single way to make decisions besides a tacked on murder hobo route (which is the least interesting way to do evil.)

I absolutely hate how incompetent video game writers like Larian (and many others) write good. You're going out of your way to help tieflings. But they never make you lose anything to help others. That's the whole point of good. Self sacrifice. You should lose vendors or good loot or something to help others in many instances. But these trash writers never incorporate that.

I won't blame the writers for this. Sure their writing is shit, but the reason you lose nothing when playing as a good character is because Larian is afraid it might piss of the normies, and those design decisions are not made by the writers.

It's partly that but also Larian are a bunch of fags who can't see beyond their own faggotry. Derp refugees are welcome here! We have to make the reasonably sounding Kagha actually an evil person who is being influenced by evil shadow beings. Because not prioritizing refugees over your own must be evil.

It's so simple. Imagine if helping the refugees meant the druids took losses in the process and you must out on a powerful druid reward and a druid vendor later? Can't do that.

Must have your cake and eat it too. Being good and going out of your way to help everybody regardless of the practicality always must result in you getting maximum rewards and benefits out of it for yourself too

Kagha's entire logic is actually shit.
It does not matter at all whether refugees will or will not stay there.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

For me the game fails in a certain regard as roleplaying. There are only two ways to play: good guy who goes out of their way to help everyone. Chaotic evil murder hobo.

There is no Lawful neutral or Lawful evil pragmatist which is my preferred way to play. Playing evil actually makes everything harder while losing out on vendors, loot, ect. There's pretty much only a single way to make decisions besides a tacked on murder hobo route (which is the least interesting way to do evil.)

I absolutely hate how incompetent video game writers like Larian (and many others) write good. You're going out of your way to help tieflings. But they never make you lose anything to help others. That's the whole point of good. Self sacrifice. You should lose vendors or good loot or something to help others in many instances. But these trash writers never incorporate that.

I won't blame the writers for this. Sure their writing is shit, but the reason you lose nothing when playing as a good character is because Larian is afraid it might piss of the normies, and those design decisions are not made by the writers.

It's partly that but also Larian are a bunch of fags who can't see beyond their own faggotry. Derp refugees are welcome here! We have to make the reasonably sounding Kagha actually an evil person who is being influenced by evil shadow beings. Because not prioritizing refugees over your own must be evil.

It's so simple. Imagine if helping the refugees meant the druids took losses in the process and you must out on a powerful druid reward and a druid vendor later? Can't do that.

Must have your cake and eat it too. Being good and going out of your way to help everybody regardless of the practicality always must result in you getting maximum rewards and benefits out of it for yourself too

Kagha's entire logic is actually shit.
It does not matter at all whether refugees will or will not stay there.

Other druids tell you they don't have enough resources to support the refugees. Kagha talks about prioritizing the druids over the tieflings. You retard lol

 

[Rhobar121]

For me the game fails in a certain regard as roleplaying. There are only two ways to play: good guy who goes out of their way to help everyone. Chaotic evil murder hobo.

There is no Lawful neutral or Lawful evil pragmatist which is my preferred way to play. Playing evil actually makes everything harder while losing out on vendors, loot, ect. There's pretty much only a single way to make decisions besides a tacked on murder hobo route (which is the least interesting way to do evil.)

I absolutely hate how incompetent video game writers like Larian (and many others) write good. You're going out of your way to help tieflings. But they never make you lose anything to help others. That's the whole point of good. Self sacrifice. You should lose vendors or good loot or something to help others in many instances. But these trash writers never incorporate that.

I won't blame the writers for this. Sure their writing is shit, but the reason you lose nothing when playing as a good character is because Larian is afraid it might piss of the normies, and those design decisions are not made by the writers.

It's partly that but also Larian are a bunch of fags who can't see beyond their own faggotry. Derp refugees are welcome here! We have to make the reasonably sounding Kagha actually an evil person who is being influenced by evil shadow beings. Because not prioritizing refugees over your own must be evil.

It's so simple. Imagine if helping the refugees meant the druids took losses in the process and you must out on a powerful druid reward and a druid vendor later? Can't do that.

Must have your cake and eat it too. Being good and going out of your way to help everybody regardless of the practicality always must result in you getting maximum rewards and benefits out of it for yourself too

Kagha's entire logic is actually shit.
It does not matter at all whether refugees will or will not stay there.

Other druids tell you they don't have enough resources to support the refugees. Kagha talks about prioritizing the druids over the tieflings. You retard lol

These are fucking druids who can pull food and water out of your ass. So what fucking resources are they missing?
They are still afraid of monster attacks, as if the gnolls or goblins needed a reason other than the fact that the grove exists.

 

[Robber Baron]

Just finished it for the first time. Coop run and we took our time, had several months of breaks too which was a good thing in the end considering all the patching and the extended ending.

I really loved it, it's simply a very very good game. The amount and quality of content is amazing considering the level of presentation. It's up there with the greatest games ever made abeit some gay narrative decisions and woke agenda drag it down a bit but THANKFULLY a lot of it is being fixed with mods and considering the attachment rate and the kind of hype the game has generated I hope modders will keep making the game even better in the long run.

It is THE BEST story-based coop game in existence though, like there's not a single other that even comes close in that regard. 150 hours of pure story content. In coop. Yeah I think BASED - I have the same hours in Vermintide 1 and that one is a session based clicker with content on replay. Simply insane, I don't think it's possible for someone to top it ever. Over the course of a few months BG3 became a comfy weekend habit to spend some quality time on.

The adventure itself is grand. Although not vanilla enough for me it was still very entertaining. In my opinion if a fantasy game doesn't have a desert segment, a snowy mountains segment and a jungle segment - then it's a bad fantasy game. BG3 failed in each part but it did have other cool places and scenarios to deliver - Underdark, Act2, Iron Throne, House of Hope(vibing_cat.gif) - they did my fantasy urge justice although I wished for more. I WISH they did separate game locations like old games did instead of this big cramped map nonsence. Alas it would've been a different adventure this way.

Characters are the weakest part of the game. Everyone is either a petty idiot or a petty sadist and all of them degenerates on top of that. And EVERYONE has a diary to write their feefees in so you could read their cringe. Sasuga Larian.
Strictly speaking there're only 2 charismatic characters in the entire game.
1. Lae'zel, who carries the whole party atmosphere on her shoulders with her character development arc being the only good in the game
2. Hag - who is the only geniunly well written villian in the game.
Very lame all things considering. Jaheira and Minsk are kinda ok but they live off their character development from the previous games. Everyone else is just too sterile and bland. (But we never got Minthara so maybe she's cool huh?)

Da(y)me Aylin.
The worst part of the game hands down. The moment at the end of Act2 her scenes play out we almost decided on redoing it and killing her instead - was it not for ruining Shart's good ending. But holy shit did they not think this one through(or did they) - a gay deity that molests and grooms a little girl turning her gay and against her father's will in the end. And that's a good thing(c)
Holy cringe. Shame the mod that turns her into a straight man came so late.

Everything else is pure gold. Gameplay always keeps the edge. New enemies are introduced all the time, tactical situations are always fun and keep the pace going, perfect level design. Literally the best the AAA entertaining industry has to offer. Will we ever get something as grand as this ever again? BG2 is still unmatched as far as vanilla fantasy adventures go. BG3 might stay as the king of blockbuster adventures forever too.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

The refugees don't even need to be a factor. A grove of ~20 or more trained druids choose to sit around and jerk eachother off while a gang of belligerent goblins encroach on their territory, the whole dilemma is horribly contrived.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Any Laezel fans, Merry Christmas. To the rest I gift you the purest cringe:

 

[Yosharian]

The refugees don't even need to be a factor. A grove of ~20 or more trained druids choose to sit around and jerk eachother off while a gang of belligerent goblins encroach on their territory, the whole dilemma is horribly contrived.

This is so true lmao, those gobbos would get fucking wrecked if the Druids just fucking got their shit together

 

[Hagashager]

I'm willing to let that one pass for the same reason the Druids of Icewind Dale do nothing. Druids seem to be passive pushovers in the FR, unless they're Jaheira.

It's part of the Druidic code to be isolationist. They're closing the grove and excising the Tieflings precisely because everytime they get involved in outside politics they tend to get fucked over.

That all said

Druids being hyper-isolationist also usually ends badly for them.

 

[KeAShizuku]

People keep comparing to BG2. Now yes obviously BG2 is far from perfect but it was also made 24 years ago so we should expect some progress.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

People keep comparing to BG2. Now yes obviously BG2 is far from perfect but it was also made 24 years ago so we should expect some progress.

"It was made in the period 1997-2003, and we must expect progress since then." You must be new to the Codex.

 

[Beowulf]

That's an honored and respected BG tradition for which it has been already criticized back in the day.
But one would hope that game design would evolve a little bit during those 2,5 decades

BG1's evil companions are a magnitude more powerful than the neutral or good ones, the only exception is Coran. Edwin is a better Wizard than the PC can ever be.

Do you really play with the lowest reputation and get high prices and Flaming Fist spawning to attack you from time to time?
Sure, he is evil, but it's D&D evil. I remember recruiting him and keeping my reputation just high enough so evil characters wouldn't leave, but otherwise still being Goody Two-Shoes.

Umm. The good path in BG2 makes you sacrifice stuff, at least in the Hell bit. And you have to be Evil to get some nice items like Blackrazor.

Fair enough, I was thinking about BG1 really, as that's the one I remember better.

 

[Yosharian]

I will say one thing about BG2, the evil companions being very powerful, they are also pretty comfortable with you doing whatever. The only thing they don't tolerate is high reputation.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's an honored and respected BG tradition for which it has been already criticized back in the day.
But one would hope that game design would evolve a little bit during those 2,5 decades

BG1's evil companions are a magnitude more powerful than the neutral or good ones, the only exception is Coran. Edwin is a better Wizard than the PC can ever be.

Do you really play with the lowest reputation and get high prices and Flaming Fist spawning to attack you from time to time?
Sure, he is evil, but it's D&D evil. I remember recruiting him and keeping my reputation just high enough so evil characters wouldn't leave, but otherwise still being Goody Two-Shoes.

It's very easy to maintain a low enough reputation that the evil characters are satisfied but high enough so you don't get harassed by the Flaming Fist or have astronomical prices in shops. The strength of evil parties doesn't just stop at Edwin. Viconia is the best Cleric because of her defenses due to her inherent magical resistance and ridiculously high DEX. Kagain has 20 CON, the highest of any companion (maybe even illegally high?). Shar-Teel can be dualled to Thief and dual Fighter/Thief is better than a multi Fighter/Thief. I count Faldorn, even though technically neutral, as part of an evil party because she's a shadow druid and as a pure Druid she has access to much more powerful spells/summons than Jaheira (who I view as borderline useless). Xzar can be dualled to Cleric when given 1 WIS tome, as opposed to Dynaheir who needs 2, OR a Thief when given 1 DEX tome. If you take the EEs into consideration, Dorn has 19 STR, the highest of any companion. The only impressive good companion is Coran who has illegally high DEX and an illegal specialization in longbows, he's a good candidate for the Helm of Opposite Alignment (which you get ridiclously late, but still).

 

[processdaemon]

While I liked the game a lot what annoyed me about the approach to evil was that it seemed to imply that most of the mortal evil characters were broken and sad and motivated to seek power largely out of fear or insecurity rather than self-interest. It makes sense for some characters to be like that to add a little depth and variety, but it didn't need to be the backstory for all of the Dead Three's chosen (Ketheric and his fear of losing his family, Gortash wanting control after his parents gave him away to a Warlock, Orin's desperate need for approval from Bhaal and Sarevok) as well as Astarion and Shadowheart.

I think it's part of why Raphael was received so well, it's fun to see someone revelling in their nature rather than lashing out like a wounded animal like the rest. It feels especially silly and hamfisted to try and squeeze an 'evil is for the weak and the scared' message when there are so many fun evil things you can do entirely for their own sake (strangling Valeria with her own trunk ) and it creates more narrative dissonance in a game that already has problems with coherence.

 

[jf8350143]

The refugees don't even need to be a factor. A grove of ~20 or more trained druids choose to sit around and jerk eachother off while a gang of belligerent goblins encroach on their territory, the whole dilemma is horribly contrived.

This is so true lmao, those gobbos would get fucking wrecked if the Druids just fucking got their shit together

Their leader Halsin get captured for no reason other than being a retard(you are a fucking arch druid, just turn into a mice and run the fuck out), so I'm pretty sure they will be massacred as well.

 

[processdaemon]

The refugees don't even need to be a factor. A grove of ~20 or more trained druids choose to sit around and jerk eachother off while a gang of belligerent goblins encroach on their territory, the whole dilemma is horribly contrived.

This is so true lmao, those gobbos would get fucking wrecked if the Druids just fucking got their shit together

Their leader Halsin get captured for no reason other than being a retard(you are a fucking arch druid, just turn into a mice and run the fuck out), so I'm pretty sure they will be massacred as well.

Based on Halsin later saying in Act 3 that he remembers the time when he was kidnapped and kept in a basement by a drow couple fondly to the point that he wants to reconnect with the experience in a brothel I'm pretty sure he just lets himself get captured for kicks.

 

[Lamiosa]

The problem with the grove conflict is that often the writers from the game (and DnD in general - actually most high fantasy books I read) fail to create conflicts/dilemmas/climaxes in high fantasy settings. They generally use our reality and literature as reference, but that doesn't really work here, does it? I mean, if you have magic that can create food and ressurrect people, a lot of things would work fairly differently. The thing is you have to think about things like this from the start, if you really want to make something consistent. It is already hard when you have one author, and exponentially harder as you have more. Everytime you add something different from our reality, the writer/creator should ask themselves, what change would this result in the world? Would it remove that specific job? Would a new kind of work appear because of it? Could someone abuse this to just destroy or conquer the world? (I admit this last one is really hard to make it right).

 

[Hagashager]

(strangling Valeria with her own trunk ) and it creates more narrative dissonance in a game that already has problems with coherence.

I''ve said this earlier but it bears repeating:

What is up with Valeria apparently being Trans? Is that a thing for flying elephant creatures? None of the other Trans characters stood out for me. It was whatever.

I can stand the sight of worms
I can look at microscopic germs
But Transgender Pachyderms are simply too much for me.

 

[Tyranicon]

Based on Halsin later saying in Act 3 that he remembers the time when he was kidnapped and kept in a basement by a drow couple fondly to the point that he wants to reconnect with the experience in a brothel I'm pretty sure he just lets himself get captured for kicks.

 

[luj1]

real world multikulti politics in a video game in 2024? silly conspiracy theorist

 

[DemonKing]

For me the game fails in a certain regard as roleplaying. There are only two ways to play: good guy who goes out of their way to help everyone. Chaotic evil murder hobo.

There are no alingments in the game anyway, so you can do both in the same playthrough if you want (does that mean you can play chaotic neutral?).

I'm playing a massive Dragonborn Fighter who doesn't pick on the little people but looks on anyone who challenges his power as something to be mercilessly crushed. Can't say it hasn't been fun so far (apart from the Githyanki Queen destroying me when I didn't show enough respect, of course - I wanted a FIGHT option!).

 

[Stella Brando]

People keep comparing to BG2. Now yes obviously BG2 is far from perfect but it was also made 24 years ago so we should expect some progress.

"It was made in the period 1997-2003, and we must expect progress since then." You must be new to the Codex.

...and to life.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I will say one thing about BG2, the evil companions being very powerful, they are also pretty comfortable with you doing whatever. The only thing they don't tolerate is high reputation.

They also had a sweet spot of characterization. Enough to pass as secodary characters in a high fantasy story, but not too much. BG3 companions are the product of different times and writers who have lost connection with that brand of the fantasy genre which BG2's setting and characters were modelled after. They are also vastly overdeveloped in terms of "content" to the point that the PC is a spectator to their stories instead of feeling like a main character.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wouldn't say Larian's writers are unique in disregarding what is possible in the world they are writing within. Beamdog's writers did the exact same refugee plot in Siege of Dragonspear along with introducing Mizhena who also doesn't make sense in a world with belts that change your gender. This is, imo, a symptom of not knowing what to write about because they have almost no life experience whatsoever and thus don't have anything to say. This is why everything in BG3 feels so inconsequential and trivial, it's because it is. Only Astarion is somewhat competently written and I'm not sure whether that was by accident.