KickStarter BattleTech Pre-Release Thread

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, because I am a rather crotchety person who with childlike glee enjoys causing destruction and mayhem.


And it should be obvious that expanded universes are anything but continuity, just like they are not sequels either. They are hollow pseudo-histories of imaginary things, encouraging a dogma of no meaning. The expanded universe of nerddom is closer to a narrative parasite that attacks the context of the individual work like a malicious tumor, than continuity. Or perhaps a toxic house of mirrors reflection of continuity. And often times the best way to detect the expanded universe at work is noticing its very common role in making haphazard, superficial sequels and spin-offs shitty (as pointed out by the case example).

 

[Cael]

And it should be obvious that expanded universes are anything but continuity, just like they are not sequels either. They are hollow pseudo-histories of imaginary things, encouraging a dogma of no meaning. The expanded universe of nerddom is closer to a narrative parasite that attacks the context of the individual work like a malicious tumor, than continuity. Or perhaps a toxic house of mirrors reflection of continuity. And often times the best way to detect the expanded universe at work is noticing its very common role in making haphazard, superficial sequels and spin-offs shitty (as pointed out by the case example).

And that is where you are absolutely wrong. A setting sets the stage for the story. The fact that you keep calling it an expanded universe is the first clue as to where you have mixed up definitions and therefore drawn wrong conclusions.

However, as you also absolutely refuse to accept this, there is really nothing more to say other than this: Calling an apple a pear doesn't make it a pear. It merely makes you an idiot.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And I suppose this is why for example BattleTech or say Forgotten Realms is widely known for narrative excellence? Puerile young boys' fiction stemming from adherance to "a setting" has no lasting value. In genuine narrative, the setting is but a subjugated particle of the greater narrative in bonded service to the narrative and its meaning, it is not for stories to obey sourcebooks and guides.

 

[Cael]

And I suppose this is why for example BattleTech or say Forgotten Realms is widely known for narrative excellence? Puerile young boys' fiction stemming from adherance to "a setting" has no lasting value. In genuine narrative, the setting is but a subjugated particle of the greater narrative in bonded service to the narrative and its meaning, it is not for stories to obey sourcebooks and guides.

I cannot believe that you actually think that a setting has something to do with the quality of a story set within it.

 

[Bohr]

While one sees these arguments in every fictional setting, between those who think there should be some sort of continuity and the "LOL nerds" brigade, in this case Jordan made it clear what his goals for the game were (and in numerous interviews has stated that he wants to stay true to the established setting and is just happy people got invested in it at all) so it seems fair to hold him to that standard:

https://www.geekwire.com/2016/winni...es-harebrained-schemes-battletech-sneak-peek/

It’s all part of a greater energy and strategy that Weisman said fans just aren’t getting from other media companies — whether that’s video games, or movies or whatever — and that’s respect.

“The history of ‘BattleTech,’ the fictional history, is hundreds and hundreds of years in a timeline,” Gitelman said. “And we treat that as if it’s actual history. Which is how our audience treats it. These events happened.”

Weisman said the properties get really rich as a huge amount of content is put out over decades. The 33-year-old “BattleTech” universe contains almost 200 novels, a dozen video games, a comic book series and an animated TV show.

“We try to treat each of them with respect, because the audience has invested themselves in different things,” Weisman said. “It’s the old ‘Han shoots first’ thing. It’s so easy as a creator to fall into the trap of, well, ‘I made it, I can do what I want with it!’ But the original piece of work, if it was lucky enough to have had such significant emotional components for your audience, that’s a landmark in their life.”

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I thought those "30 meters tall" -comments came from game journo types that don't know their mechs from WH 40k titans or meters from feet.

Expanded universe is something that is NOT officially sanctioned by the creator of the original IP as a real continuity. Star Wars is a good example. All of the EU was subsequently discarded and thrown away when the latest movies came out.

Not the first time they did that with Star Wars. Darkhorse comics, Timothy Zahn books, Mara Jade etc. had nothing to do with earlier Marvel comics, which had stuff like plot line centered on ocean planet inhabited by water breathing humanoids, race of pink nymfos, ewoks that weren't so cute when fully grown. There was also invasion of pale emo torturers post Return of the Jedi.

Spoiler

Those emo torturers were running away from race of green fatsos that dressed up like 18th century french court.

 

[Cool name]

And I suppose this is why for example BattleTech or say Forgotten Realms is widely known for narrative excellence? Puerile young boys' fiction stemming from adherance to "a setting" has no lasting value. In genuine narrative, the setting is but a subjugated particle of the greater narrative in bonded service to the narrative and its meaning, it is not for stories to obey sourcebooks and guides.

the setting doesn't exist for great novels w narrative excellence, it exists to provide a framework and fictional world for tabletop strategy and rpg gaming. if anything it's the novels that shouldnt exist, not the sourcebooks.

with stuff like Star Wars I'll readily agree that slavish devotion to sperglord setting minutiae would get in the way of making actual good films (though it turns out ignoring EU dogshit didn't stop Lucas and Disney from making their own varieties of dogshit either) and would be losing sight of the original purpose of the setting's existence.

whether or not reasonably consistent and unreasonably detailed worldbuilding is a good and useful thing or pure pointless autistbait depends entirely on the purpose of the setting.

I'm not invested enough in any setting to care much on a personal level, and if deviating from established setting details actually improves story, mechanics, etc. I see 0 problem. When it does none of that however, I'm not entirely sure what purpose is served other than thumbing ones nose at the most devoted fans who presumably spend the most money. dont see the point really

 

[Cael]

Not the first time they did that with Star Wars. Darkhorse comics, Timothy Zahn books, Mara Jade etc. had nothing to do with earlier Marvel comics, which had stuff like plot line centered on ocean planet inhabited by water breathing humanoids, race of pink nymfos, ewoks that weren't so cute when fully grown. There was also invasion of pale emo torturers post Return of the Jedi.

Spoiler

Those emo torturers were running away from race of green fatsos that dressed up like 18th century french court.

Most of those were woven together, I believe. I don't know about the "early comics" because I don't know where the early ends or begins. But a lot of the other stuff like the resurrected Emperor, E-Wings, World Devastators, the Dark Lady Lumiya and other comics stuff were eventually integrated into the EU. Lumiya actually came back to turn Jacen Solo to the dark side a la Kylo Ren.

Water breathing humanoids sounds like either Mon Calamari or Quarren.
Pink nymphos sounds like Twi'leks (green, pink, blue, they seem to run the whole rainbow).
Don't know about pale emo torturers. Unless you are talking about the stupid organic technology exo-galactic Force immune twats. I gave up on the EU once that came out and I was someone who managed to plough through Vonda MacIntyre's The Crystal Star with little ill-effects *twitchtwitch*, which has the distinction of being such a bad book that people have been known to bleed out from the gums, eyes and ears just being in the same room as a copy.
And the Ewoks? There are never supposed to be cute and cuddly. People tend to forget that they captured Han and Luke for DINNER...

What is telling is that there was a Lucas sanctioned novel set between New Hope and Empire called Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and holy crap, it was abysmal (and that is describing it generously). Alan Dean Foster has a lot to answer for, not the least of which was the whole incest angle that he started.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Marvel had a run with SW comics from 1977 to 1986.
They made comic adaptations from original movies and filled some loose ends from between those movies.
Things like "how Wedge survived Hoth" or hunt of those other bounty hunters from Empire Strikes Back so they could track down Boba Fett (who btw wasn't the only Mandalorian in Marvel continuity).
+some original plot arks and characters.

Water breathing humanoids sounds like either Mon Calamari or Quarren.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iskalon/Legends

Pink nymphos sounds like Twi'leks (green, pink, blue, they seem to run the whole rainbow).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeltron/Legends

Don't know about pale emo torturers

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nagai

And the Ewoks? There are never supposed to be cute and cuddly. People tend to forget that they captured Han and Luke for DINNER...

Can't find relevant link for it, but in those comics Ewoks could turn into ogre sized monsters that were strong enough to go toe to toe with Chewbacka. It was explained with puberty or something like that.

 

[Cael]

Marvel had a run with SW comics from 1977 to 1986.
They made comic adaptations from original movies and filled some loose ends from between those movies.
Things like "how Wedge survived Hoth" or hunt of those other bounty hunters from Empire Strikes Back so they could track down Boba Fett (who btw wasn't the only Mandalorian in Marvel continuity).
+some original plot arks and characters.

Water breathing humanoids sounds like either Mon Calamari or Quarren.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iskalon/Legends

Pink nymphos sounds like Twi'leks (green, pink, blue, they seem to run the whole rainbow).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeltron/Legends

Don't know about pale emo torturers

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nagai

And the Ewoks? There are never supposed to be cute and cuddly. People tend to forget that they captured Han and Luke for DINNER...

Can't find relevant link for it, but in those comics Ewoks could turn into ogre sized monsters that were strong enough to go toe to toe with Chewbacka. It was explained with puberty or something like that.

Heh. That is some weird stuff. Not too surprised, though. Star Wars is actually set in a largely explored and colonised galaxy, so there would be ample space for all sorts of shenanigans.

By the way, Fett isn't the only Mandalorian even in the EU.

I remember that damned Japanese Star Wars game. The Death Star's corridors did it for me. Same featureless crap that potentially recurs, a maze with the same room and teleporters between them and only 1 real way through it. It made Vogel's Exile dark teleporter maze seem trivial in comparison.

 

[ArchAngel]

..I had to check twice if I missed a Battletech topic and accidentally ended up in general discussions..

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

By the way, Fett isn't the only Mandalorian even in the EU.

Mandalorians are simply too cool to be killed off.

 

[Agesilaus]

Is anyone actually watching the campaign videos that people are creating? I don't read that dev's twatter comments, but in terms of the game I have not seen any obnoxious SJW nonsense. I won't pretend to know enough lore to say that everything that happens is 100% consistent, but this looks to be possibly the best PC battletech game since Inception, if not ever.

 

[Grotesque]

I thought those "30 meters tall" -comments came from game journo types

The statement belongs to Jordan Weisman during a livestream promoting the game

but in terms of the game I have not seen any obnoxious SJW nonsense

The SJW nonsense moved from form in the game to it's design principles based on the ideology that there are no bad players and good players to exist difficulty levels.

In this case, white guilt morphed into "game designer's guilt".

 

[Agesilaus]

The SJW nonsense moved from form in the game to it's design principles based on the ideology that there are no bad players and good players to exist difficulty levels.

In this case, white guilt morphed into "game designer's guilt".

Interesting, but judging by the videos I know for a fact that there are bad players.


I am curious about the difficulty settings, though. Most of the missions seem a tad easy, although the jail break mission did give the guy I was watching a run for his money. I hope there's a good range of difficulty between the missions, they clearly have a rating system like Battle Brothers but I don't dont know how ridiculous the higher level missions can get (BB ranging from cake walk to absolutely impossible/suicidal/ragequit imminent).

 

[Bohr]

The thing with the higher 'star' difficulty missions is that you also get more pay and better salvage on them, so the idea often floated on the PDX forums that they are a perfect way to make the game harder for better players is a bit off the mark, at least in terms of the economic sim and power progression. Also the story missions have set difficulty levels.

I saw one streamer salvage three full medium mechs after one mission in the early part of the game, he may have had a bit of luck with the salvage but I think it's clear that there will be difficulty mods (and hopefully some options from HBS) pretty soon after release.

 

[Grotesque]

The SJW nonsense moved from form in the game to it's design principles based on the ideology that there are no bad players and good players to exist difficulty levels.

In this case, white guilt morphed into "game designer's guilt".

Interesting, but judging by the videos I know for a fact that there are bad players.


I am curious about the difficulty settings, though. Most of the missions seem a tad easy, although the jail break mission did give the guy I was watching a run for his money. I hope there's a good range of difficulty between the missions, they clearly have a rating system like Battle Brothers but I don't dont know how ridiculous the higher level missions can get (BB ranging from cake walk to absolutely impossible/suicidal/ragequit imminent).

The fail state in the game is going bankrupt which in the world of mercenaries is a big NO! NO! but the game throws at you so much cash that you as a player feel compelled to wipe your ass with them.
Thus everybody feels capable playing the game and everybody is happy.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

This one has last man standing set to "desperate MechWarrior" who will overheat easier and wants to cause as much damage as they can before they fall. Less DFA hungry in normal play.

It's very interesting that the AI modder believes that the only way to make the tactical game challenging to experienced players is to make the last remaining enemy AI into a suicide bomber that would rather take you down with them than escape.

Why?
Enemies that can fight until last man in every mission while player has to pay for his losses is all too typical BS in campaign play.

 

[Country_Gravy]

I think that the Argo and financial management looks fun. I still think this game will be good. If they just improve combat from the Beta a little bit and the customization part and salvage look decent, I will put in some serious BattleTech hours into this one.

Not looking for a classic, but if it can scratch the BattleTech itch a bit, it will be worth it.

 

[Silva]

After their Shadowrun series I don't have any faith in HBS capability for actual engrossing mechanics, be it simulation, tactical or whatever. They're Bioware wanabees, not Black Isle nor Sir-Tech.

Though I would be glad if they surprise me. :D

 

[Grotesque]

a jewish vehicle destroyed by a laser that doesn't give a fuck about terrain.
so much polish this game has!

 

[Agesilaus]

 

[Silva]

a jewish vehicle destroyed by a laser that doesn't give a fuck about terrain.
so much polish this game has!

 

[Bohr]

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

HG are nothing more than copyright trolls, aka the lowest form of life possible. I really hope the judge grants summary judgment here because sweet Christ.