KickStarter BattleTech Pre-Release Thread

[Bohr]

Yep, and the Longbow I think.

The Locust and Galleon were originally from "Crusher Joe", and the Leopard was supposedly inspired by a Crusher Joe design, but they are also ok now. After BT went through the whole Unseen - Reseen - Unseen - Retcon thing I think it's only HG who started shit again referencing the original Macross designs

Spoiler

On 24 June 2009 it was announced that Catalyst Game Labs would resume use of the original Unseen artwork. The announcement did not explicitly mention whether or not Catalyst Game Labs had secured the permissions needed, though that was the general impression. This was just prior to the print publication of the BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction anniversary tome.

Shortly afterwards, the BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction PDF was pulled from circulation. Managing editor Randall Bills made a statement on Catalyst Game Labs' website on 10 August 2009 where he explained with regret that twelve designs, originating from Macross, were again pulled from circulation and will remain Unseen, due to their the possibility that their exclusive distribution rights (outside of Japan) belonged to another company (Harmony Gold). Apparently, CGL had been unawares of a hitherto confidential clause in the original settlement agreement. Still, roughly half of the Unseen artwork had been recovered for BattleTech. During this period of time, (formerly) Unseen art appeared in several products including the print edition of 25 Years of Art and Fiction (different from the initial PDF release in that the Macross designs had been removed again), Record Sheets: Operation Klondike, Historical Turning Points: Galtor, Historical: Reunification War, and Record Sheets: 3055 Upgrade.

However, to avoid the possibility of future legal issues in what was perceived as a legal minefield, CGL decided to revert to the previous Unseen situation.

Retcon

In 2015 CGL announced that they had opted for a proper retcon, and that new art would be published to retroactively supplant the Unseen designs and put the issue to rest for good. Since then, various products have appeared featuring new yet recognizable artwork for the classic Unseen.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

And the Centurion is supposed to have a hand on the left arm, but instead looks like it has an even LARGER AC on it.

It's a shield. A massive cosmetic shield. Blame the MWO devs, it's their model.

 

[Black]

And HBS knew how full of fuck MWO models are when they decided to borrow them.

 

[Cael]

And the Centurion is supposed to have a hand on the left arm, but instead looks like it has an even LARGER AC on it.

It's a shield. A massive cosmetic shield. Blame the MWO devs, it's their model.

They went bloody Microshite retardo, then. MW4 'mechs had the same useless crap. Black Knight had a shoulder shield and the Hellspawn had that stupid periscope. On top of that, 'mechs like the Atlas had its AC20 mounted in a side pocket that you can shoot off (said Hellspawn had a LRM10 in a shootable bubble next to its head in addition to the bloody periscope).

 

[Bohr]

Oh God, whatever one thinks of the streamers linked earlier in the thread, their streams meant long threads on the forums expressing concerns over the game being too easy.

But now someone just tracked down a streamer who managed to go bust in the early game, ignoring about 30 warnings and pleas to sell some shit and get some funds in. 5 minutes of painful viewing, but the first look at failing the game. There appears to be a graphic missing in this build though.

(I'm not someone who usually spends much time on Twitch so I have no idea who the big streamers are, who this character is or why someone this painfully retarded would be offered a key in the first place)

 

[Cael]

Oh God, whatever one thinks of the streamers linked earlier in the thread, their streams meant long threads on the forums expressing concerns over the game being too easy.

But now someone just tracked down a streamer who managed to go bust in the early game, ignoring about 30 warnings and pleas to sell some shit and get some funds in. 5 minutes of painful viewing, but the first look at failing the game. There appears to be a graphic missing in this build though.

That is hardly ringing endorsement of the risk of failure. If you had to deliberately go out of your way to court it, failure is not really an option, is it?

 

[Bohr]

Questions about why so many of the enemies in the early game (although spotted in up to 3 skull missions so far) are in "bad condition" with only 25% to 50% of their stock armour, which is why they get popped quite easily in the streams we've seen

 

[Bohr]

Strange, same host as I usually use and seems to be working for some

Rehosted

Spoiler

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Oh God, whatever one thinks of the streamers linked earlier in the thread, their streams meant long threads on the forums expressing concerns over the game being too easy.

But now someone just tracked down a streamer who managed to go bust in the early game, ignoring about 30 warnings and pleas to sell some shit and get some funds in. 5 minutes of painful viewing, but the first look at failing the game. There appears to be a graphic missing in this build though.

(I'm not someone who usually spends much time on Twitch so I have no idea who the big streamers are, who this character is or why someone this painfully retarded would be offered a key in the first place)

From my view of the streams, the game looks almost trivially easy at times. AI is bad and finances do not seem to be a significant constraint (although apparently they're rebalancing that somewhat).

 

[Cael]

Questions about why so many of the enemies in the early game (although spotted in up to 3 skull missions so far) are in "bad condition" with only 25% to 50% of their stock armour, which is why they get popped quite easily in the streams we've seen

Somehow, I got a feeling that their definition of "super skilled battletech player" is far different to mine...

As to not being horribly punishing, I got a funny feeling that their definition of that is also far different to mine...

 

[Cael]

It's pretty clear to me that prospective players here should wait to see if the AI/balancing issues are resolved in the released game, and if they aren't, if and when mods fix them.

In that case, I would pay the modders for the game rather than HBS.

 

[ArchAngel]

Questions about why so many of the enemies in the early game (although spotted in up to 3 skull missions so far) are in "bad condition" with only 25% to 50% of their stock armour, which is why they get popped quite easily in the streams we've seen

Somehow, I got a feeling that their definition of "super skilled battletech player" is far different to mine...

As to not being horribly punishing, I got a funny feeling that their definition of that is also far different to mine...

"Super skilled battletech player" = Someone who can read tooltips and pay attention during the tutorial.

It's pretty clear to me that prospective players here should wait to see if the AI/balancing issues are resolved in the released game, and if they aren't, if and when mods fix them.

Nah, I will play it twice. Once as it is and use it to learn the UI and how mechanics of the game work, and then second time when I can dial up the difficulty to X-com Superhuman/Ironman levels.

 

[Bohr]

Series of tweets on how the system/contract "skull" level is calculated. Essentially there is a global difficulty tied to the story which goes from 1 to 10, and a system modifier ranging from -2 to +2. The total is divided by two to get the skull rating, hence why one can only get low skull contracts if you don't progress the story. It doesn't mean 3 skull contracts are level scaled to be harder once you have better mechs, it does mean that you will only find 3 skull contracts if you do some of the story. Something to bear in mind if you want to ignore the story on a subsequent playthrough.

Spoiler

Tweets here : https://twitter.com/HBS_Kiva/status/983540664766877696

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Well, that'll make it easier to go bankrupt. People were saying that it would be impossible since you could always just do easy contracts to make money if you needed to, but that's not going to work if easy contracts cease to exist once you start playing through the campaign. Pretty inelegant solution though. Ideally they'd still be there but just not worth doing once you were built up. As it is we're going to get an Oblivion style situation where the entire galaxy scales with you so once you've played enough every pirate will have an assault mech.

 

[Bohr]

Once people have played through the story a couple of times there will be a big demand for a sandbox mode / mod, don't want to always have to do the same story missions to access the full map or the more difficult contracts. Saw a suggestion on the Discord for a mod which removes the global modifier and tags all the systems from 1 to 10 instead, so if you were just starting out and made the mistake of heading into a contested border area you could be surrounded by 4 and 5 skull missions and battling to survive.

 

[Jimmious]

Since contracts are json, it'll indeed be super easy to mod them like hell

 

[Grotesque]

"Because in the game, as it exists now, mech chassis never disappear. Once you have a kingcrab/atlas, name your favorite mech, you can NEVER EVER lose it. Once you build your 'ideal lance', its done"

 

[ArchAngel]

A questions to people following this game more than me: What prevents you from having a lance with 4 most armored and biggest mechs with most weapons?
Why would you want or need to have lighter and weaker mechs?

 

[Bohr]

"Because in the game, as it exists now, mech chassis never disappear. Once you have a kingcrab/atlas, name your favorite mech, you can NEVER EVER lose it. Once you build your 'ideal lance', its done"

Yep, mechs are never lost, just need a lot of repair, apparently was 'too punishing' in testing. Many requests for this option (you'd maybe be left with a chassis piece to salvage) in the ironman/difficulty options Tyler was talking about perhaps adding later.

A questions to people following this game more than me: What prevents you from having a lance with 4 most armored and biggest mechs with most weapons?
Why would you want or need to have lighter and weaker mechs?

Early in development they said they wanted an ongoing role for lights and mediums, but it's always tough when one only controls 4 mechs as usually bigger is better. A fast scout with sensor lock could be good if you have a lot of LRMs in your lance, mobility can be useful in some missions - if you need to chase someone down you wouldn't want 4 Atlases. Jordan spoke about having an "extraction Spider" with no weapons just specialised in getting someone out in an extraction mission. Lighter mechs also get initiative advantages and by using reserve can duck in, fire and out first next turn.

Having said all that it remains to be seen if they succeeded, or if everyone just ends up using mostly assaults in late game.

 

[ArchAngel]

When I have watched people stream the game, every time lighter mechs were used enemy would focus them down and blow them up fast. And when those mechs attacked they did little beyond blowing up enemy tanks.

Maybe a solution would be to allow light mechs to move before and after shooting. It is kind of stupid that shooting ends the turn on everyone. Fast mechs should be able to take pot shots all the time at slow mechs and static defenses.

This reserve trick is nice but all it does it give you one turn of shooting for 2 turns of actions and light mech turn of shooting is pathetic anyways.

 

[Bohr]

I think we'll get a better idea of their overall effectiveness when decent players use them though. Some of the main criticisms of the streamers is how so many of them used their lights, tanking with a Spider seemed a popular tactic.

 

[Infinitron]

How does tabletop handle it?

 

[Cael]

Lights and mediums were greatly enhanced by LosTech. Streaks and TAG made fast 'mechs very potent. A Locust with a TAG and 2 machine guns might look like a joke until the brace of 6 Arrow IV come screaming in.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think we'll get a better idea of their overall effectiveness when decent players use them though. Some of the main criticisms of the streamers is how so many of them used their lights, tanking with a Spider seemed a popular tactic.

It is not like you can avoid it unless you keep them hidden the whole time and only use them to finish off heavy damaged enemies. At that point I might as well not use one and have a more useful mech.

As soon as you move one into fire position, any alive enemies are not forced to attack your "tank" mech, they can attack any mech within range and why not the one that they can actually do some damage to.

 

[Cael]

It is not like you can avoid it unless you keep them hidden the whole time and only use them to finish off heavy damaged enemies. At that point I might as well not use one and have a more useful mech.

As soon as you move one into fire position, any alive enemies are not forced to attack your "tank" mech, they can attack any mech within range and why not the one that you can actually do some damage to.

The thing with the Spider is that it is the only 'mech other than the Assassin who can jump 7+ spaces. Jumping 7+ imposes a whopping +4 penalty to the enemy's attack roll vs the Spider (remember that we are dealing with 2d6 rolls here). Drop the Spider into dense terrain (+2 penalty) at medium range (+2 penalty again) and it is nigh untouchable. And 2 MedLas blasts to the rear (or the threat of 2) is no joking matter.

Again, this is far enhanced by Clan tech. In fact, two particular Clan 'mechs are notoriously well suited for this tactic: The Viper/Black Python and the Goshawk/Vapor Eagle. They have a combination of jump jets, large pulse lasers and targeting computer. Using the same tactic, they impose a massive penalty to you hitting them, but the pulse lasers and targeting computer mitigates a massive part of the penalties to them. Viper style 'mechs on TT are the most frustrating enemies you can face, especially when piloted by Clan warriors AND you don't have the Clan tech pulse lasers yourself. A Viper can easily go one-on-one vs a Daishi an come up on top. The only near contender is the Masakari variant with targeting computer and large pulse lasers, which has the armour to take the hits and enough bonus to hit to have a chance of swatting the bastards out of the sky.