Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

[Lagole Gon]

http://www.baldursgate.com/news_2013mar07.en.html

In cooperation with our wonderful forum members, we're pleased to announce the winners of Round I and Round II of our fan art contest.

In Round I, the theme was 'Epic Fails in Epic Moments'. After a variety of hilarious submissions, forum member 'trinit' won with this entry of Neera bringing down some bovine pain.

Round II was a more complex affair, and the theme was gender-swapped portraits for use with the infamous Girdle of Gender Change. This round had two winners and two runner up selections.

Goddammit bros, why we missed this? I could easily win this shit and hide penisosaurus somewhere in the picture.

 

[Grunker]

They'll probably put their stamp of approval on the best modder content. Whether what they steal are graciously granted by the modders is an improvement, is another matter.

Which content did they include in BG:EE that they did not have any approval from the original modder? Can you give me a list?

Nah, I was just being sarcastic about how they're essentially charging for stuff that they got from the modders for free. I should have made that clearer I guess.

They specifically asked them for their permission to add it to BG:EE and knowing they would not be compensated for it (they were credited though). And quite a few said NO (and were not included).

What specifically is the problem?

The problem is that many of the modders whose work were included worked completely for free for the "priviledge" of being included into BG:EE. It's pretty morally debatable to turn a profit on what is basically a backdoor form of slave labour.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

They'll probably put their stamp of approval on the best modder content. Whether what they steal are graciously granted by the modders is an improvement, is another matter.

Which content did they include in BG:EE that they did not have any approval from the original modder? Can you give me a list?

Nah, I was just being sarcastic about how they're essentially charging for stuff that they got from the modders for free. I should have made that clearer I guess.

They specifically asked them for their permission to add it to BG:EE and knowing they would not be compensated for it (they were credited though). And quite a few said NO (and were not included).

What specifically is the problem?

The problem is that many of the modders whose work were included worked completely for free for the "priviledge" of being included into BG:EE. It's pretty morally debatable to turn a profit on what is basically a backdoor form of slave labour.

Okay, hold up. So they were informed they weren't going to be compensated and they had a choice in the matter, am I getting that right?

You're ridiculous. Slave labor? Are you shitting me?

 

[Grunker]

They'll probably put their stamp of approval on the best modder content. Whether what they steal are graciously granted by the modders is an improvement, is another matter.

Which content did they include in BG:EE that they did not have any approval from the original modder? Can you give me a list?

Nah, I was just being sarcastic about how they're essentially charging for stuff that they got from the modders for free. I should have made that clearer I guess.

They specifically asked them for their permission to add it to BG:EE and knowing they would not be compensated for it (they were credited though). And quite a few said NO (and were not included).

What specifically is the problem?

The problem is that many of the modders whose work were included worked completely for free for the "priviledge" of being included into BG:EE. It's pretty morally debatable to turn a profit on what is basically a backdoor form of slave labour.

Okay, hold up. So they were informed they weren't going to be compensated and they had a choice in the matter, am I getting that right?

You're ridiculous. Slave labor? Are you shitting me?

I'm a lefttard, what can you do?

Slave labour is a harsh term, the Danish word would be "skruebrækkerarbejde" but I don't know the English version of that. The basics of the problem is that these guys were working hard for an extended amount of time for no pay to create profits for other people. This is not a healthy concept in any jobmarket, much less when these people are expressing gratitude that they even get to throw their free work at these people. It's just another example of the abusive nature of Oster's project; it scams workers (modders) and consumers (players) alike, with a half-baked product largely inferior to a product that already existed.

 

[Diablo169]

I'm fairly sure if the modders cared about not getting payed they would have told Oster to fuck off. It was their choice at the end of the day.

 

[Grunker]

I'm fairly sure if the modders cared about not getting payed they would have told Oster to fuck off. It was their choice at the end of the day.

Ever heard about wage pressure? This is a similar ordeal. There's a reason most sectors don't allow people to work for free or for almost nothing. The decisions of these modders lends legitimacy to a complete bullshit way of doing business.

 

[Akarnir]

Except all the difficulty increase mods, what kind of other mods can they add for BG2?? There's none that really improves anything, unlike BGT or Tutu did for BG.
I may be wrong here, but I never saw any major content mod. I didn't searched much either.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Except all the difficulty increase mods, what kind of other mods can they add for BG2?? There's none that really improves anything, unlike BGT or Tutu did for BG.
I may be wrong here, but I never saw any major content mod. I didn't searched much either.

http://modlist.pocketplane.net/index.php?ax=list&cat_id=12

Take your pick. And that excludes fixpacks and stuff (which were the mainly used mods for BG: EE).

 

[Lancehead]

I don't think they will take much of content mods, but mostly fixes and patches. They'd want to make their own content and sell it as DLC.

 

[Akarnir]

Except all the difficulty increase mods, what kind of other mods can they add for BG2?? There's none that really improves anything, unlike BGT or Tutu did for BG.
I may be wrong here, but I never saw any major content mod. I didn't searched much either.

http://modlist.pocketplane.net/index.php?ax=list&cat_id=12

Take your pick. And that excludes fixpacks and stuff (which were the mainly used mods for BG: EE).

Yeah I already went there. All I picked was the challenge Mods.
I couldn't find anything that would brings Vanilla level content here. NPC mods are just vessels for bad written fanfic, most kits mod are unbalanced or just crappy, and I already had enough kits to try in BG2 anyway.

Some Balance mods were good, since it's easier to edit a text file than producing models, art assets, writing, scripting, tweak the engine... I like the Rogue balancing mod.

Also there's bug fixes, tweaks.... But that's not really new content. It's already obvious that they would include every possible fixes.

 

[SwiftCrack]

That's what I expected of BG: EE too. But they couldn't even restore original cut content :/.

 

[Grunker]

Except all the difficulty increase mods, what kind of other mods can they add for BG2?? There's none that really improves anything, unlike BGT or Tutu did for BG.
I may be wrong here, but I never saw any major content mod. I didn't searched much either.

http://modlist.pocketplane.net/index.php?ax=list&cat_id=12

Take your pick. And that excludes fixpacks and stuff (which were the mainly used mods for BG: EE).

Yeah I already went there. All I picked was the challenge Mods.
I couldn't find anything that would brings Vanilla level content here. NPC mods are just vessels for bad written fanfic, most kits mod are unbalanced or just crappy, and I already had enough kits to try in BG2 anyway.

Some Balance mods were good, since it's easier to edit a text file than producing models, art assets, writing, scripting, tweak the engine... I like the Rogue balancing mod.

Also there's bug fixes, tweaks.... But that's not really new content. It's already obvious that they would include every possible fixes.

One Pixel Productions, fixpacks, Unfinished Business, BGT, a few excellent quest mods (Ding0's Quest Pack for instance) which also add some nice C&C, a few of the NPCs are genuinely good. The NPC mod for BG1 is less bad fanfiction and more just mediocre, it's OK if you like banter.

My usual modlist includes something around 14 mods I think.

 

[Akarnir]

That's what I expected of BG: EE too. But they couldn't even restore original cut content :/.

Worst is that they aren't even authorized to touch original content. So unless it's a bug fix, they can't even tweak and rebalance some of the class/stats. For example the charisma. Would have been cool if they made this stat useful, but they can't. Or the plain bard/mage class that suck, or the divination school that's lacking. Or the enemy AI that doesn't use enough spells and doesn't really behave in a sophisticated manner. Or stupid spells/boosts like haste. Add more spells, tweak some, improve some visuals...

That would be the point of an Enhanced Edition. That's a lot of work, but that's how it's supposed to be. But that's not how they're doing it.

 

[Jaesun]

Like all the Charisma checks in the game? What?

 

[Akarnir]

Like all the Charisma checks in the game? What?

not that debate again. List all of them, in BG2 or BG1 , and list what advantages good charisma check will give you.It won't be overwhelming.

Comparing charisma's usefulness to the other stats is far stretched. After all, it's not referred as the dump stats for nothing.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Slave labour is a harsh term, the Danish word would be "skruebrækkerarbejde" but I don't know the English version of that. The basics of the problem is that these guys were working hard for an extended amount of time for no pay to create profits for other people.

I'll admit my Danish is kind of limited but I *think* that's the word for strikebreaking, aka blackleg, svartfot, guling? If so I REALLY don't see what you're talking about, sorry.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want about putting fan-created content in a product and selling it without the modders seeing a dime. That was the deal and the modders were (as far as I know) informed about it. Whether they realize they were used or not is irrelevant because they were given a choice as opposed to many others who are ACTUALLY forced to work for shit pay and under shit conditions. Calling it slave labor or anything of the sort is simply not a valid comparison. It is dumb and insulting.

The only thing I can agree with is that it's

a half-baked product largely inferior to a product that already existed.

 

[Grunker]

Slave labour is a harsh term, the Danish word would be "skruebrækkerarbejde" but I don't know the English version of that. The basics of the problem is that these guys were working hard for an extended amount of time for no pay to create profits for other people.

I'll admit my Danish is kind of limited but I *think* that's the word for strikebreaking, aka blackleg, svartfot, guling? If so I REALLY don't see what you're talking about, sorry.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want about putting fan-created content in a product and selling it without the modders seeing a dime. That was the deal and the modders were (as far as I know) informed about it. Whether they realize they were used or not is irrelevant because they were given a choice as opposed to many others who are ACTUALLY forced to work for shit pay and under shit conditions. Calling it slave labor or anything of the sort is simply not a valid comparison. It is dumb and insulting.

The only thing I can agree with is that it's

a half-baked product largely inferior to a product that already existed.

You're missing the point. It's not that they're forced into it (hence why I admitted that slave labour wasn't at all correct, my limited vocabulary was at fault), it's that free labour of this kind has a bad, bad, bad influence.

And no, skruebrækker refers to both strikebreaking as well as pressing the conditions for the given work sector by accepting sub-minimum standards.

Ever heard about wage pressure? This is a similar ordeal. There's a reason most sectors don't allow people to work for free or for almost nothing. The decisions of these modders lends legitimacy to a complete bullshit way of doing business.

They're doing Oster's work for him, they should be paid.

 

[Kirtai]

It's a bit like when companies try to get free work done by claiming you can "add it to your portfolio". If a for-profit company is making money off your work, they really ought to pay you for it, they're not a charity after all.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Slave labour is a harsh term, the Danish word would be "skruebrækkerarbejde" but I don't know the English version of that. The basics of the problem is that these guys were working hard for an extended amount of time for no pay to create profits for other people.

I'll admit my Danish is kind of limited but I *think* that's the word for strikebreaking, aka blackleg, svartfot, guling? If so I REALLY don't see what you're talking about, sorry.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want about putting fan-created content in a product and selling it without the modders seeing a dime. That was the deal and the modders were (as far as I know) informed about it. Whether they realize they were used or not is irrelevant because they were given a choice as opposed to many others who are ACTUALLY forced to work for shit pay and under shit conditions. Calling it slave labor or anything of the sort is simply not a valid comparison. It is dumb and insulting.

The only thing I can agree with is that it's

a half-baked product largely inferior to a product that already existed.

You're missing the point. It's not that they're forced into it (hence why I admitted that slave labour wasn't at all correct, my limited vocabulary was at fault), it's that free labour of this kind has a bad, bad, bad influence.

A bad influence on what?

Besides, it's not like the fan-created content is vital to the game. They are mods after all, and I'm willing to suggest that Beamdog *maybe* simply wanted to acknowledge modders whose mods were especially top notch by directly integrating them into the game, I mean, as opposed to the player manually downloading and installing them? Maybe I'm devil's advocating this thing but that's just how I see things. I don't see Trent Oster as an evil scumbag exploiting other people's hard work. I see him as just another mildly retarded asshole trying to make a quick buck by taking an existing product and giving it a new paint job. An app-maker, if you will.

And no, skruebrækker refers to both strikebreaking as well as pressing the conditions for the given work sector by accepting sub-minimum standards.

Ah.

Ever heard about wage pressure? This is a similar ordeal. There's a reason most sectors don't allow people to work for free or for almost nothing. The decisions of these modders lends legitimacy to a complete bullshit way of doing business.

They're doing Oster's work for him, they should be paid.

Maybe so, but they were apparently just happy to see their names in the credits. In a way it's fucked up I guess but if that was their choice I haven't got many fucks to give about it. But it's admirable that you're looking out for them, I guess.

 

[Grunker]

A good part of the fixes they did to BG:EE were done through BGFixpack. That sheds quite the poor light on the "Well, maybe he just wanted to acknowledge modders" bit. A good bit of ToBEx functionality was also instrumental.

It's a bit like when companies try to get free work done by claiming you can "add it to your portfolio". If a for-profit company is making money off your work, they really ought to pay you for it, they're not a charity after all.

Bingo.

 

[tuluse]

Grunker has a point. It would probably make me mad if I didn't find the whole situation so hilarious. I brought up a similar problem I have with the project earlier (but in a joking way), when Oster was complaining about Valve getting a higher percentage cut than him from Steam sales. Which is that the original devs aren't getting paid anything per copy. Imagine if BG was a movie like Terminator and someone released an "enhanced edition" and tried to sell it without any royalties going to Cameron or Arnold. That's what Oster is doing.

The whole thing is extremely exploitive on many levels.

 

[Blackguard]

They're doing Oster's work for him, they should be paid.

Considering Overhaul has actually hired like 10 or so modders by now, I would wager a guess that pretty much everyone whose mod is in BGEE has been offered a job but some of them have declined the offer. They've even hired modders who didn't get their mods in BGEE like the guy behind SCS. Either way you are being ridiculous trying to make an issue out of something that isn't even an issue to the people actually involved.

 

[General Maxson]

Grunker has a point. It would probably make me mad if I didn't find the whole situation so hilarious. I brought up a similar problem I have with the project earlier (but in a joking way), when Oster was complaining about Valve getting a higher percentage cut than him from Steam sales. Which is that the original devs aren't getting paid anything per copy. Imagine if BG was a movie like Terminator and someone released an "enhanced edition" and tried to sell it without any royalties going to Cameron or Arnold. That's what Oster is doing.

The whole thing is extremely exploitive on many levels.

I'm glad that douchebag won't get much out of it. Hopefully all that embarrassing exploitation and money grab fails, so they stop "improving" the classics. As they are clearly incompetent to do so.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

You're all children. Beamdog got the rights to Baldur's Gate from Atari and the rights to the Infinity Engine from BioWare. Everything they're doing, they're well within their right to do and (most likely) with the green light from the original creators. What you consider to be wrong and "immoral" matters exactly as much as a Biodrone's personal "headcanon"; nothing.

Imagine if BG was a movie like Hurfadurf and someone released an "enhanced edition" and tried to sell it without any royalties going to Hurf or Durf. That's what Oster is doing.

No, it isn't.

As for the modders, I don't give a shit. Some said ok, some said no and that's it. Pretty sure they're grown men and women and don't need you to whiteknight them against the evils of "oh hello, we'd like to ask permission to use your stuff."

 

[tuluse]

You're all children. Beamdog got the rights to Baldur's Gate from Atari and the rights to the Infinity Engine from BioWare. Everything they're doing, they're well within their right to do and (most likely) with the green light from the original creators. What you consider to be wrong and "immoral" matters exactly as much as a Biodrone's personal "headcanon"; nothing.

LOL OK DUDE MORALS MEAN NOTHING