Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

[Arkeus]

As for the modders, I don't give a shit. Some said ok, some said no and that's it. Pretty sure they're grown men and women and don't need you to whiteknight them against the evils of "oh hello, we'd like to ask permission to use your stuff."

Or maybe it's "Oster is getting paid for making an inferior product using work done by other people that he isn't paying AND is complaining that he isn't getting enough royalty". Guy makes a bad job, is a thief and a whiner, so yeah...

 

[Andyman Messiah]

You're all children. Beamdog got the rights to Baldur's Gate from Atari and the rights to the Infinity Engine from BioWare. Everything they're doing, they're well within their right to do and (most likely) with the green light from the original creators. What you consider to be wrong and "immoral" matters exactly as much as a Biodrone's personal "headcanon"; nothing.

LOL OK DUDE MORALS MEAN NOTHING

There's nothing immoral or unjust going on here.

Or maybe it's "Oster is getting paid for making an inferior product using work done by other people that he isn't paying AND is complaining that he isn't getting enough royalty". Guy makes a bad job, is a thief and a whiner, so yeah...

Or maybe it's a pig? *sudden pig noise*

Look, children. I'm not saying Oster isn't a fucking prick but kindly fuck off with your stupid ass crying.

 

[tuluse]

There's nothing immoral or unjust going on here.

I disagree. I think he's exploiting other's work, exploiting the name Baldur's Gate, and exploiting fans' laziness/lack of knowledge.

Obviously there are degrees of immorality, and this one falls more of the side of hilarious failure than anything nefarious, but I still don't like it.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

There's nothing immoral or unjust going on here.

I disagree. I think he's exploiting other's work, exploiting the name Baldur's Gate, and exploiting fans' laziness/lack of knowledge.

Obviously there are degrees of immorality, and this one falls more of the side of hilarious failure than anything nefarious, but I still don't like it.

And you are well within your rights to do so.

He's not the first to "exploit" (even though in this case he actually got the rights and everything so there's really no exploitation going on) other's work and he won't be the last.

 

[tuluse]

Buying rights doesn't mean someone isn't being exploited. Reductio ad absurdum: if I buy a slave am I not exploiting because I paid for it?

I know he isn't the first and won't be the last, but it's a little more blatant in this project than most.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Yet another drow?

B-but muh Drizzt.
And quite frankly I never understood the fascination with drow. The War of the Spider Queen series was good but it still had parts coated with faggotry that no one in their right mind could ignore.

 

[Akarnir]

That would Mod integration wouldn't be so bad if he actually made a big chunk of BGEE content himself, then added mods as a bonus after people asked for it.

But he didn't made shit, just tied a bunch of mods together in a package and sell it for 20$.

 

[Excidium]

And quite frankly I never understood the fascination with drow.

It's p. easy to understand.

 

[Ozma]

People who are willing to give away the rights to their internet dwarven artifacts for their internet name retconned into the credits of a 15 year old game they can't stop spergin about are horrible autismal manchildren and don't need no white knights

 

[sea]

You're all children. Beamdog got the rights to Baldur's Gate from Atari and the rights to the Infinity Engine from BioWare. Everything they're doing, they're well within their right to do and (most likely) with the green light from the original creators. What you consider to be wrong and "immoral" matters exactly as much as a Biodrone's personal "headcanon"; nothing.

LOL OK DUDE MORALS MEAN NOTHING

What's immoral? The fact that a mass market product designed for entertainment based on a franchise you like and featuring gameplay you like (as opposed to games and franchises you don't like) is getting extra stuff added and, at least in theory, improved upon? Boo fucking hoo. I guess if someone decided to remake glorious Daikatana with better graphics, functional AI and fixed bugs, you'd be bitching about how it "ruins the spirit of the original"?

Regarding ownership, no one individual author owns Baldur's Gate, D&D, etc. This isn't like taking a piece of fine art, painting some extra stuff on top of it and re-selling it as "improved." We're talking about a product with dozens of authors, none of which have any individual right of ownership over its content, and whose work was done under contract for another business.

Regarding modders: while not paying them for their work is shady even if Overhaul did get an agreement from the modders themselves, it's not illegal. And sadly, standards for employment and paying workers are different in North America vs. the rest of the world. In North America it's all but expected in some sectors that you work for free, sometimes for years, before getting paid. Videogames industry is the same - nobody's paying people for the tens of thousands of hours in practice and training required just to get an entry level job.

 

[Grunker]

You're all children. Beamdog got the rights to Baldur's Gate from Atari and the rights to the Infinity Engine from BioWare. Everything they're doing, they're well within their right to do and (most likely) with the green light from the original creators. What you consider to be wrong and "immoral" matters exactly as much as a Biodrone's personal "headcanon"; nothing.

LOL OK DUDE MORALS MEAN NOTHING

What's immoral? The fact that a mass market product designed for entertainment based on a franchise you like and featuring gameplay you like (as opposed to games and franchises you don't like) is getting extra stuff added and, at least in theory, improved upon? Boo fucking hoo. I guess if someone decided to remake glorious Daikatana with better graphics, functional AI and fixed bugs, you'd be bitching about how it "ruins the spirit of the original"?

Someone remade BG with better graphics, functional AI and bug-fixing? Please, good sir, show me this product!

All I have heard of is the one with blurry 2D, AI ripped out of mods and which introduced a bug for each one it fixed.

 

[tuluse]

What's immoral? The fact that a mass market product designed for entertainment based on a franchise you like and featuring gameplay you like (as opposed to games and franchises you don't like) is getting extra stuff added and, at least in theory, improved upon? Boo fucking hoo. I guess if someone decided to remake glorious Daikatana with better graphics, functional AI and fixed bugs, you'd be bitching about how it "ruins the spirit of the original"?

Regarding ownership, no one individual author owns Baldur's Gate, D&D, etc. This isn't like taking a piece of fine art, painting some extra stuff on top of it and re-selling it as "improved." We're talking about a product with dozens of authors, none of which have any individual right of ownership over its content, and whose work was done under contract for another business.

Regarding modders: while not paying them for their work is shady even if Overhaul did get an agreement from the modders themselves, it's not illegal. And sadly, standards for employment and paying workers are different in North America vs. the rest of the world. In North America it's all but expected in some sectors that you work for free, sometimes for years, before getting paid. Videogames industry is the same - nobody's paying people for the tens of thousands of hours in practice and training required just to get an entry level job.

I never talked about the sanctity of the art. I don't even like BG1 that much. I never claimed anything was illegal.

I just don't like certain things about this project that I said I find exploitive. Yes you can find the same and much worse happening all the time in the world, but that doesn't make it right in my book.

Also, just as a general rule I think game devs get reamed on a regular basis with how the system works.

 

[sea]

I just don't like certain things about this project that I said I find exploitive. Yes you can find the same and much worse happening all the time in the world, but that doesn't make it right in my book.

Also, just as a general rule I think game devs get reamed on a regular basis with how the system works.

There are two ways of looking at it.

The first is that modders did work and didn't get paid for it.

The second acknowledges things are not that simple. Those modders were happily doing what they did as a hobby and for their own personal enjoyment and edification, with no promise or even vague hint they would ever profit from it. Now someone comes along and says "we want to make this work official, we'll give you credit and you can put this on your CV as a contribution you did". No, Overhaul did not pay these guys, but they seemed to have no problem with it and they were always free to say no if they didn't want their mods to be included. As others have said many actually were hired on to work for Overhaul, so their modding actually did lead to gainful employment.

Is this situation exploitative? Maybe, but it's also far better for them than just about any of them could have ever expected.

 

[uaciaut]

I'm wondering if they people that are doing bg2ee ever considered contacting the (many) people that did fan mods for bg2 since a few mods were really well made. Rogue Rebalancing is the first that comes to mind that addressed a lot of class related technical issues and added (pretty good imo) content as well. Not that i'm expecting much tbh.

 

[Xavier0889]

inb4 they release bg2ee with nothing added

 

[waywardOne]

I'm wondering if they people that are doing bg2ee ever considered contacting the (many) people that did fan mods for bg2 since a few mods were really well made. Rogue Rebalancing is the first that comes to mind that addressed a lot of class related technical issues and added (pretty good imo) content as well. Not that i'm expecting much tbh.

They can't touch original content which includes classes/kits unless it can be considered a bugfix.

 

[SwiftCrack]

But they can't put in unfinished business as bugfixes

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Buying rights doesn't mean someone isn't being exploited. Reductio ad absurdum: if I buy a slave am I not exploiting because I paid for it?

For fuck's sake. This is the reason why I stay neutral in politics.

Imagine an announcer for a boxing match for this piece.
"In the red corner, IDIOTS! In the blue corner, OTHER IDIOTS!"

 

[GarfunkeL]

No, Overhaul did not pay these guys, but they seemed to have no problem with it and they were always free to say no if they didn't want their mods to be included. As others have said many actually were hired on to work for Overhaul, so their modding actually did lead to gainful employment.

How do you, or anyone else for that matter, know that Beamdog has hired modders? Did they put up a press release that I've missed or something?

And

Either way you are being ridiculous trying to make an issue out of something that isn't even an issue to the people actually involved.

Oh that's why there was no drama AT ALL over at the usual modder hangouts. No sir, no drama at all. Hi Trent, nice new alt you got there.

 

[Stabwound]

It's great to see that this project is still a huge clusterfuck well after the fact. It's like stepping out of the path of a tornado and coming back to look at all the wreckage.

 

[Delterius]

No, Overhaul did not pay these guys, but they seemed to have no problem with it and they were always free to say no if they didn't want their mods to be included. As others have said many actually were hired on to work for Overhaul, so their modding actually did lead to gainful employment.

How do you, or anyone else for that matter, know that Beamdog has hired modders? Did they put up a press release that I've missed or something?

I'd look for it. But I remember one or two modders actually saying as much in the BG:EE forums.

 

[waywardOne]

How do you, or anyone else for that matter, know that Beamdog has hired modders? Did they put up a press release that I've missed or something?

And
Oh that's why there was no drama AT ALL over at the usual modder hangouts. No sir, no drama at all. Hi Trent, nice new alt you got there.

Exactly right. Less than a handful of modders have stated that they have received compensation. None of them have moved to Canada to actually be a legitimate hire. It's not like Asc64 is on their payroll, or that DavidW is writing scripts for them. It's bullshit. You won't see anyone from Beamdog posting that they hired a modder because they haven't (last time I checked, ~ first of the year).

Keep in mind that "getting paid" or "being compensated" doesn't have to mean cash-for-work; it could be something as stupid as a free copy of the game they're helping to make. I have no idea why people are trying to salvage BD's shitty image. The modders had no legal claims to their work, especially the crunchier ones. Asc64 (and SHS) could technically be sued for his exe hacking and distribution of said.

And none of this matters. BGEE is a shitty pay-to-play mod. I'm still waiting for something significant for modding to appear. So far it's just stuff on the graphics end like animations.

 

[amar0k]

Ok guys.. i did not play the BGs for some years, and have not followed that whole EE thing that closely. Reviews are somewhat mixed, i think only the validation of you codexers can be trusted. I dont want to read through this endless thread though, could you just tell me if the goal of enhancing BG has bin reached or are the original games with mods still the thing players (and the modding scene) should hold on to? Enhancing in the sense of: fixing problems both on the gameplay and technical sides, adding some stuff that blends into and stays on the quality of the original game, reviving the modding scene inclusive compatibility of major mods or at least enough motivation on the scene to adapt the mods to the new engine.

 

[groke]

It's a turd, don't touch it. It doesn't add anything mods can't already provide except for some herpaderp Sarevok-wannabe.

 

[hoverdog]

if the goal of enhancing BG has bin reached

or are the original games with mods still the thing players (and the modding scene) should hold on to?

yes

Enhancing in the sense of: fixing problems both on the gameplay and technical sides

no+adding their own

adding some stuff that blends into and stays on the quality of the original game

haha, no