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Squeenix Best Final Fantasy

Which Final Fantasy is the best?


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Joined
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In the 90s, even super high budget games were conceived solely by game designers and directors, with far less meddling than today's hellscape. It should be obvious just from what you experienced in the game ("soul"), but you're the second person to sling accusations of trend chasing now, so I had to clear that up.

I was being charitable. Maybe it was the devs. The worldwide success of 7 got to them, they wanted to be even bigger. They thought they could attract an even larger audience. Yes, they put their heart and soul into it. Yes, they're still great artists. But I know trend chasing when I see it.

To a certain extent, it worked. My cousin who played Doom and Space Hulk, who for some weird reason was really into the Spice Girls, bought the game on launch. He got stumped before the end of Disc 1, had to ask for my help. I quickly realized he had never really learned to junction. It reminds me of those bands that sell out, but don't really know how to do it, so they just end up pissing off their fans. Anyway, that was his first and last FF game.

BTW, I don't mind romance in (some)games. 7 was pretty much perfect, in this regard. In fact, that may have been one of the prime motivators for giving romance such a prominent place. Devs often misunderstand what makes their games popular.
 

Falksi

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All this talk about FF8, and the thing which killed it for me was the horrendous load times between each screens on the PS1. Watching the game fade to black each time just drew the whole experience out.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
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Ohh, now this is an interesting new romhack for FF6: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7917/

Final Fantasy VI Challenge Mod is a balance overhaul mod intended to give players a fresh experience with a higher difficulty level, but does not make the game punishingly hard either. This encompasses the following:

  • Characters are rebalanced; overpowered stuff was nerfed and underpowered stuff was buffed. This includes changes to Strago’s Lore list, Umaro can be equipped but is still a Berserker, some of Gau’s Rages have two special attacks, SwdTech charges faster, Mog’s Dances never fail, and more. Additionally, everyone has an “ultimate weapon” out there in the world to find.
  • Espers no longer grant level-up bonuses, instead stat boosts comes from equipment. The new equipment system is inspired by Final Fantasy XII - equipment can be sorted into “light”, which raises Speed and evasive stats, “heavy”, which raises Vigor and HP, and “mage”, which rages Magic and MP. But there’s still universal equipment and characters are not forced into just one type of equipment, they have a variety. In fact, numerous characters have new equipment they can use, like Setzer and Shadow using throwing weapons, Cyan can equip swords, and Terra and Celes can equip rods.
  • Espers teach spells faster, and spells can also be learned from equipment. There are new spells in Water, Wind, and Earth, tier 1.5 and 2.5 spells. You’ll need them because enemies have more varied elemental properties than before, so you can’t get complacent spamming the same spells every encounter and expecting them to do the job. Defensively, you have access to more elemental Relics to defend against enemies.
  • Espers have had their effects buffed, some Espers are found in different locations, and some are changed into different beings. A completely new Esper has already been added.
  • Enemies are tougher: they have higher stats, more active AI scripts, and make more varied use of elemental and status attacks. Some bosses were significantly altered, such as the Eight Dragons, who are buffed to the level of end-game bosses. Gold Dragon and Skull Dragon were moved out of Kefka’s Tower to new locations in the world.
  • While most of the actual story content is untouched saved for a handful of places that update the localization in relations to gameplay (AtmaWeapon - Ultima Weapon, dialogue is changed accordingly), Restored Ability Names and Expanded Item Names are included to allow for longer text strings all-around and the names of abilities and items were changed to typical FF standard. While most enemies kept their original names if only to avoid confusion, a couple of them have their “proper” names now (Tonberry, Ahriman, Malboro, etc).

Sounds like it will help in making early game a bit better in particular (extreme linearity notwithstanding).

Edit: oh...it removes the stat/character building, period, if I am reading this right. Damn, that's a terrible shame. Bright idea, just remove the only aspect of custom RPG character building/player expression to build your party as you want in the entire game...

:retarded:

...6 is already the weakest of the 90s FF legends in that regard. Never mind then, scrap that. I will just stick to FF6 Eviltype: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/294/
 
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RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
750
Today I have finally finished Final Fantasy 6. Extremely good game, I think I enjoyed it slightly more than FF7 (which I wrote about here), however the latter is undeniably better in some respects. I actually think they're pretty similar games in their broad intentions, with FF6 being almost a prototype for FF7 in presentation, gameplay setpieces, and even the character customization systems. I still have yet to play other entries in the series (I am going to start FF5 very soon).

The major blemish of FF6 is the lack of engaging gameplay in the first six hours or so. Combat encounters are tuned to be extremely easy at this stage, particularly with the introduction of characters like Edgar, Sabin, and Cyan, whose unique commands are capable of quickly dispatching entire groups with little effort. The game is very linear and setpiece-driven at this stage, and the main character customization system (magicite) doesn't even show up until you've cleared this part of the game. The game is of course still charming at this stage, but it doesn't make up for the lack of substantial gameplay. One redeeming highlight of these dull early hours comes at a moment in the story where the burgeoning party splits up to make a strategic advance on the Gestahlian Empire; in Locke's scenario, the thief has to sneak into a now-occupied South Figaro to gather intel. The town is converted into a stealth puzzle dungeon, and is capped off with Locke rescuing the defected imperial general Celes from the manor's mazelike basement, now teeming with imperial guards, in a rare section of gameplay that challenges resource attrition.

In any case, as soon as the player reaches Zozo the game skyrockets in quality. Enemies and bosses become an actual threat, the dungeons get more complex, and the player finally acquires magicite. Equipping a particular magicite grants a character access to a powerful esper summon, as well as passively teaching them spells as they defeat enemies and in some cases offer stat bonuses on level up. This system allows players to customize their party's abilities and grow their stats in a number of directions, with many distinct viable strategies. Celes, a rune knight who specializes in absorbing enemy spells as MP, can be specialized as a tank with utility spells or as an offensive mage. Sabin, a monk capable of unleashing powerful martial arts Blitzes, can be geared towards strength, magic, or even max HP as one of his abilities heals his party based on his current HP. Gau, a feral youth who can copy the attributes and abilities of any enemy he has lived amongst, could occupy literally any role in combat. Even characters with obvious niches benefit from learning a variety of spells which can enhance their own abilities or support their team. For example, the samurai Cyan specializes in bushido sword techniques which have a long charge time, but this can be neutralized if he learns the Quick spell to take a double turn, which pauses the battle entirely until both of its turns have been resolved (I discovered this strategy on the final boss after teaching Cyan the skill on a whim, and he carried my team to victory).

Characters can also equip up to 2 rings, charms, or other artifacts to gain potent passive buffs, become immune to harmful status effects, or even modify their special commands, e.g. the thief Locke's Steal becomes Mug which attacks during the theft attempt, the gambler Setzer's Slots are replaced with Gil Toss which allows him to deal great damage without investing in Strength or Magic, and the pictomancer Relm's ability to Sketch an enemy to copy a random attack upgrades to the ability to Control them instead. As the player collects more magicite and relics, the strategic possibility space grows multiplicatively.

The freeform character progression systems are further elevated by the game's more player-driven narrative and gameplay structure after the railroaded early hours. Even in moments where the story is chiefly centered around one or two characters, the player is always permitted to choose the makeup of the rest of the party, and in many cases this actually leads to unique dialogue from the characters that were brought along. This is a feature that Final Fantasy 7 would iterate on along with hidden consequences for dialogue choices to emphasize the protagonist Cloud's growing relationship with other characters. Meanwhile in Final Fantasy 6 there is no clear protagonist, and the player is encouraged to cast whomever they like among the ensemble to play the supporting roles in character-driven scenes, and can find missable scenes as a result of who they tend to bring along.

The player is also softly encouraged to frequently utilize each of 14 playable characters. When characters are first recruited or brought back into the party after being separated, their levels are brought up to the party average. If the player spreads experience evenly across their party, the recruited character will gain fewer "dirty" levels absent any stat bonuses from magicite. There are also three sequences in the game, including two substantial dungeons, where the player must assemble multiple viable parties to progress through a series of challenges, rewarding investment in more than just the player's four favorites.

Arguably the game's best content is found in its second half, when the party is scrambled and the player must recruit them back into the fold. After a few recruitments which proceed in a linear order, the player is on their own, and must find clues on their allies' whereabouts and seek them out in whatever order they choose. This section houses some of the game's best dungeons, as well as a number of optional superbosses offering new gear, magicite, and even character abilities. The game's final dungeon is a challenging test of the player's fully built parties, featuring difficult enemy encounters, a sprawling multi-level maze, eight sub-bosses, and a four-stage final boss which tag in downed characters for the benched party members as it progresses, achieving a daunting scale with some of the most ambitious presentation on the SNES.

Aside from the unengaging early hours, there are still problems with the game. First of all, it's apparently one of the buggiest entries on the SNES, with fans ROMhacking hundreds of bugfixes in the years since release (I recommend the Revised Old-Style Edition for a easy collection of patches, along with a faithful update to Ted Woolsey's translation). On the design side, the spread of magicite isn't balanced all that well, with a lot of spell overlap and lopsided stat bonuses, as well as some esper summons being much less useful than others. Finally, the game's ATB system is highly flawed, as unlike in prior titles, the ATB gauges do not pause during battle animations, leading to commands piling up on the queue. This makes the Speed stat relatively useless and enables “Wait tricking” abuse, where the player selectively enters a command submenu in Wait mode to pause ATB and gain a turn order advantage. Commands are made even less responsive by the reintroduction of execution delays from FFIV, and the Battle Speed config option counter-intuitively applies only to slowing enemy ATB timers. Over the second half of my playthrough I workshopped my own ROMhack to address these flaws, building on the work of other modders. I was able to enjoy the final dungeon with substantively more strategic battles as a result.

Final Fantasy 7 has better pacing and a more consistent difficulty curve, as well as an even more robust and expansive character customization system. Final Fantasy 6 has greater challenge to offer near the end of the game (as with most RPGs this is negated if you grind, but the final dungeon was a stiff challenge at level 37), and in my opinion had more engaging level design overall, despite the overabundances of caves. Both employ sublime presentation and snappy gameplay setpieces to sell their narrative, with FF6 perfecting of the craft for the SNES and FF7 confidently doing the same on a brand new system, albeit with less visual consistency. I found the character focus of Final Fantasy 6 especially charming, and the medley of their themes during the ending credits sequence to be rather moving -- Nobuo Uematsu may be the best game composer of all time.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Great writeup RoSoDude. As you shall, I played FF6 first and then FF5, which I remember mostly as a less evolved but still excellent version of FF6, with its own almost-as-good and completely distinct story and cast. I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
RosoDude is a gameplayfag at heart, and therefore a rare gem of rationality in the sea of weirdos called "gamers". He will find FF5, in numerous ways, more evolved than FF6. Particularly for not having a lame start (well, give or take a couple hours maybe), more interesting RPG systems, better challenge, non-broken ATB, and more consistently engaging level design. That said, all the multi-party stuff is gone which it seems he really liked. Also no micro-influence over attributes is unfortunate*. As an overall package, 6 might be better, but 5 has slightly better gameplay in the fundamentals. Oh, and 5 is tough and encourages some grinding by this virtue, he may not be happy about that.

*you can influence stats via job class, equipment/relic, and the occasional passive ability (HP+20%), but it is less freedom to specifically define compared to some of the later games. No big deal at all though. The game just does the fundamentals better.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
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Location
Nottingham
The major blemish of FF6 is the lack of engaging gameplay in the first six hours or so. Combat encounters are tuned to be extremely easy at this stage, particularly with the introduction of characters like Edgar, Sabin, and Cyan, whose unique commands are capable of quickly dispatching entire groups with little effort. The game is very linear and setpiece-driven at this stage, and the main character customization system (magicite) doesn't even show up until you've cleared this part of the game. The game is of course still charming at this stage, but it doesn't make up for the lack of substantial gameplay.
Generally a good write-up, but I found this lasted for far longer than 6 hours. Nearer the 20 hour mark for me; Edgars Tools and Cyans Quadraslash just decimated everything, including bosses (apart from Kefka).
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
750
The major blemish of FF6 is the lack of engaging gameplay in the first six hours or so. Combat encounters are tuned to be extremely easy at this stage, particularly with the introduction of characters like Edgar, Sabin, and Cyan, whose unique commands are capable of quickly dispatching entire groups with little effort. The game is very linear and setpiece-driven at this stage, and the main character customization system (magicite) doesn't even show up until you've cleared this part of the game. The game is of course still charming at this stage, but it doesn't make up for the lack of substantial gameplay.
Generally a good write-up, but I found this lasted for far longer than 6 hours. Nearer the 20 hour mark for me; Edgars Tools and Cyans Quadraslash just decimated everything, including bosses (apart from Kefka).
Sure, I largely agree, which is why I deliberately avoided taking those guys along for the early dungeons as soon as I had the choice, so I wouldn't just steamroll everything. I have in my mind a bunch of ideas for rebalancing the game without going full modderbrain (most FF6 overhauls gut the magicite system to force the characters into particular roles), but I'm going to wait until I play some more of these games for greater perspective.
 

Ash

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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
Generally a good write-up, but I found this lasted for far longer than 6 hours. Nearer the 20 hour mark for me; Edgars Tools and Cyans Quadraslash just decimated everything, including bosses (apart from Kefka).

It's not just the combat balance/challenge though. Everything gameplay-wise just multiplies at that point. Multi-party dungeons. Notably more complex and interesting level design starts to make an appearance. By this point, you finally have enough relics and equipment to start to make unique builds. Esper summons, magic learning, and stat building all at once come into play in combat and party building. You get the airship and therefore finally have access to the full World of Balance (even though there isn't much to do just yet until WoR). The airship is also the first time you can switch party members at any time you please.

It is a major blunder that FF6 retains almost Chrono Trigger levels of gameplay depth, complexity and engagement (almost none) and then finally takes off the training wheels all at once after so long. The other greats (5, 7, 8, 9) do not make this same mistake, instead introducing everything in steady even pacing, as well as not even having such an absurd introduction period that is THAT railroaded, dead simple and easy.
 
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Ash

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Joined
Oct 16, 2015
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7,055
dumb shit

Hi sum drunk guy. As usual you drunken bum, you have not a single clue. Final Fantasy is extremely diverse. Some games are trope-laden. Others are extremely unique. Some games are utter garbage. Others are some of the very best games the industry produced. Some completely on rails and storyfag, others offer much freedom, and so on. You made a thread named "japs do it better" and while I am on the fence with that claim, classic Final Fantasy is one of the finest examples to put forward to give your argument credence.

Follow the poll. Final Fantasy 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9 is excellent stuff, forget anything you have heard or think you might know about them, I almost guarantee you it's wrong unless you heard it from me (YES! lol), and play.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
Don't be a retard. Please. These are old games. There is no woke mind virus nonsense.

Point taken though, people are stupid and unable to interpret words based on context. I'll just use a synonym next time.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,723
Don't be a retard. Please. These are old games. There is no woke mind virus nonsense.

Point taken though, people are stupid and unable to interpret words based on context. I'll just use a synonym next time.
Why am I not allowed to vote for FF XIII? The OP asked a question and I would like for my opinion to be included. The poll is very anti-diverse.
 

Tse Tse Fly

Savant
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
710
I'm playing FF1 pixel remaster too, and while I like the rearranged soundtrack, I think the visual style is really incoherent in this one, it's like playable characters sprites were taken from the NES original, and NPC and monsters sprites from more advanced remakes or whatever, it just looks wrong to me. The outline around sprites is kind of offensive to the eye too. I've been thinking about restarting on NES/GBA/PSP versions, now which one would be better and why?
 

Beans00

Erudite
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
1,732
My ranking, I beat all these games. Some of them I barely remember. Some(2 and 3) I played with shitty emulator fan translations.

FFT>>>>>>>>FF6>>FF5>FF4>>>>>>FFTA>>>FF1>>FF7>>>FF3>>>>FF9>>>>>FF2>>>FF8


The stories/writing in all games except tactics and 6, and to a lesser extent 4 and 5 is pretty cringe.

The music in pretty much all those games, even the bad ones is pretty top tier.

FF8 has by far the most cringe writing, 9 and 7 come close at times.

I don't like games where you're forced to play as the bad guys/terrorists. 7 gets bumped down for that.

All these games are pretty easy except the NES ones(1-2-3), and tactics definitely has some difficulty spikes, then becomes way too easy by the end.

FF8 also supports animal cruelty, which I don't condone. Squalls girlfriend(can't remember her name) has a special attack where she shoves a crossbow bolt into her dogs asshole and fires him at the enemy. FF8 also has hard level scaling like oblivion lol.

I'm going to go on a limb and say FFT has one of the best stories ever written in a game period. Completely blew me away as a kid.
 

Poseidon00

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2,224
FF5 and FF6 are good, if flawed. FFT is also good, but pales in comparison to its predecessor, Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. Tactics Ogre LUCT had multiple story paths that radically changed the characters motivations and actions, multiple endings, some of which changed depending on your faction reputation and who was left alive by end game, powerful classes hidden behind side quests, it does not paint nationalism in a cartoonishly bad light unlike 99% of modern games, and it is part of a series where the quality is generally more consistent. FFT will always be the imperfect imitation to this game imho. The only thing it does better is individual character builds.
 

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