Best RPG of the year - 2011 Top 10 Bitch and wine Thread!

[Grunker]

If you were a real gamer, it wouldn't be such an issue for you.

rich

if you were a real gamer you would have enough respect for the medium not to buy into shit money-making schemes

if you were a real gamer you would not accept a locked box of below-average, overpriced hardware

if you were a real gamer you'd understand the fact that there's nothing a console can do that a PC can't, which makes them pretty redundant doesn't it

if you were a real gamer you'd bemoan the fact that porting is the name of the game today and that reduces the quality of our games

last but not least if you were a real codexian you would have enough fucking critical sense to at least ackknowledge the above even if you still buy a console because you need your fix

but more importantly if you were interested in discussion you wouldn't end your posts with such idiotic exclamations as "IF YOU WERE A REAL GAMER BRO"

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Major butthurt detected.

if you were a real gamer you would have enough respect for the medium not to buy into shit money-making schemes

lol wut? So PC gaming is not also business? Besides, I already said, my consoles are all modded - they don't get any money out of me.

if you were a real gamer you would not accept a locked box of below-average, overpriced hardware

lol wut? What's average? Overpriced? I payed roughly the equivelent of 3 full priced games for each - which is soon made up for by not paying for the games.

if you were a real gamer you'd understand the fact that there's nothing a console can do that a PC can't, which makes them pretty redundant doesn't it

Oh really? Try playing Demon's/Dark Souls, Uncharted, GoW, GT5, Forza, Halo... etc..etc...etc... on a PC.

if you were a real gamer you'd bemoan the fact that porting is the name of the game today and that reduces the quality of our games

Can't argue with that. Also can't do anything about it.

last but not least if you were a real codexian you would have enough fucking critical sense to at least ackknowledge the above even if you still buy a console because you need your fix

Oh so now real codexian's only agree with you? Well, you've sure got the arrogance of a codexian, I'll give you that. Anyway, I ackknowledged one of you points.

but more importantly if you were interested in discussion you wouldn't end your posts with such idiotic exclamations as "IF YOU WERE A REAL GAMER BRO"

True that. Gotta admit it had the desired effect though, right?

Look, I'm a PC gamer first and formost. 90% of my gaming is done on PC. I just don't buy into this platform wars bullshit. Honestly, you sound no better than the raging morons on IGN and GameSpot arguing over PS3 vs 360.

 

[Grunker]

lol wut? So PC gaming is not also business? Besides, I already said, my consoles are all modded - they don't get any money out of me.

you bought an extra set of hardware for no other reason than to accomodate industry-imposed compatability-issues

not a money-scheme no siree

oh but you pirate so it's k

"the codex is a PC-forum as well as a console-forum (please note that we're only a console-forum for the pirates since then it's not a money-scheme"

lol

lol wut? What's average? Overpriced? I payed roughly the equivelent of 3 full priced games for each - which is soon made up for by not paying for the games.

i can build a pc with the power of your xbox cheaper that's what overpriced meant last i checked

additionally, games for consoles are more expensive and consoles have less powerful hardware

Oh really? Try playing Demon's/Dark Souls, Uncharted, GoW, GT5, Forza, Halo... etc..etc...etc... on a PC.

the pc can run all of those games, only industry-imposed "console-only" labels ensure they can't

there's no reason to not make those games for the PC. none whatsoever

that is the core of consoles

Can't argue with that. Also can't do anything about it.

you can stop buying their fucking shit and hang out with like-minded people who realize the sham too... oh wait you're on the codex i guess so maybe you're just trolling?

or even if you buy their shit because you need your Dark Souls-fix, you can stop promoting and defending their shit

i don't give a damn that you own a console, and notice that i haven't once used the word 'consoletard'

what i give a damn about is you wanting to shove their shit into my Codex-GOTY-award where it sure as fucking hell doesn't belong

the day the codex starts giving awards to one of the most blatant threats against gaming in general is a sad day indeed

Oh so now real codexian's only agree with you? Anyway, I ackknowledged one of you points.

noticed my last sentence which implied i thought the "you're only a real" schtick is pretty retarded? maybe that means i used it in an ironic sense since i supposedly don't do shit that i myself find retarded for no reason

True that. Gotta admit it had the desired effect though, right?

if the desired effect was making me lose some of the respect i otherwise have for you then yeah, sure

Look, I'm a PC gamer first and formost. 90% of my gaming is done on PC. I just don't buy into this platform wars bullshit. Honestly, you sound no better than the raging morons on IGN and GameSpot arguing over PS3 vs 360.

seriously? FUCK YOU

if you don't even have the basic ability to argue my points and merits but would rather cling to your belief that console-hardware is somehow magically different from PC-hardware and therefore your precious Dark Souls could never run on PC then go ahead but if anyone's and IGN/GAMESPOT-fag here it is certainly you

the codex is about PC-RPGs, and there are good reasons behind it. whenever we mention them all the consoleplayers gather around, wrap their sweaty hands round their ears and shout "lalalalala" till we go away.

well i'm just about to. your ignorance makes sweet blood flow from my butthole and i hate it when the codex does that to me

 

[Falkner]

I don't really care about the whole discussion, but Microsoft and Sony made losses with each sold console for a while. Make as much people buy your hardware as possible (even if you lose money this way) and then rely on the peripherals and games to rake in the money. So, by buying the console and nothing else, you are trolling Microsoft/Sony big time.

 

[Grunker]

doesn't really take any strength away from my arguments but i guess buying 10 consoles would be a hoot if i was filthy rich

 

[GordonHalfman]

Grunker your arguments are going to seem over the top to most people, since there's really nothing that terrible about buying hardware just for gaming. If you have the money you might do it just for convenience, have a work PC upstairs on your desk and a gaming box in the living room as a gaming/media centre, why not? This is especially true if like me you need to own a laptop for work reasons. Spending £400 on a laptop and £200 on a console every 4-5 years doesn't seem like a bad deal compared to the ruinous amounts I used to spend on keeping a gaming desktop up to date. I suppose technically if my laptop breaks I'll temporarily regret not being able to run office on my xbox, but the risk is not that great really.

Secondly there is a real advantage for developers in having a fixed platform to target and the consumer benefits from them getting more out of the machine over the long term. It's not true to claim that porting to the PC is easy or free just because the hardware should be capable of running it, or that developer bias in favour of consoles is all about them wanting microsoft to have more money. The long term health of the industry may also benefit from that strange cultural trick console manufacturers have managed in getting a decent number of people to actually pay money for their games.

Also I don't see why your argument couldn't be generalised to include anything developed for windows PCs, again if it's only developer laziness that prevents it running natively on a linux box. Isn't windows a money making scam as well?

 

[AlaCarcuss]

.

WTF? Are you drunk or stoned or somthing? Seriously, that was like the ramblings of a 6 year old.

you bought an extra set of hardware for no other reason than to accomodate industry-imposed compatability-issues

Yes. Yes I did. The industry's not gonna stop me from playing whatever the hell I want and neither are you.

not a money-scheme no siree

Huh? Drunk?

oh but you pirate so it's k

Um... yes?

"the codex is a PC-forum as well as a console-forum (please note that we're only a console-forum for the pirates since then it's not a money-scheme"

Wut? I don't even... stoned?

lol

Tee, hee... I... guess....

i can build a pc with the power of your xbox cheaper that's what overpriced meant last i checked

Not in the state your in.

additionally, games for consoles are more expensive and consoles have less powerful hardware

the pc can run all of those games, only industry-imposed "console-only" labels ensure they can't

there's no reason to not make those games for the PC. none whatsoever

that is the core of consoles

Huh? Umm... all true, but seriously... WTF are you on about? Dude this is just babble that everyone knows and is completely beside the point.

you can stop buying their fucking shit and hang out with like-minded people who realize the sham too... oh wait you're on the codex i guess so maybe you're just trolling?

I'm a gamer, this is a game site... wait...why the fuck am I doing this... Who are you and what have you done with Grunker?

or even if you buy their shit because you need your Dark Souls-fix, you can stop promoting and defending their shit

Oooh, it's all a big conspiracy.... boogie man gonna get'cha...

i don't give a damn that you own a console, and notice that i haven't once used the word 'consoletard'
what i give a damn about is you wanting to shove their shit into my Codex-GOTY-award where it sure as fucking hell doesn't belong

It's not your fucking codex dipshit.

the day the codex starts giving awards to one of the most blatant threats against gaming in general is a sad day indeed

You make this sound like it's somthing new. You do know that cosoles have been around longer than PC's right? Not to mention the battle is already lost - unless you naivley believe PC gaming is going to make some sort of miraculous comeback.

noticed my last sentence which implied i thought the "you're only a real" schtick is pretty retarded? maybe that means i used it in an ironic sense since i supposedly don't do shit that i myself find retarded for no reason

Umm, ok if you say so.

if the desired effect was making me lose some of the respect i otherwise have for you then yeah, sure seriously? FUCK YOU

No, it was to get a reaction. Though I do believe that anyone who truely likes video games, doesn't give a damn about the hardware they run on as long as the game itself is decent.

if you don't even have the basic ability to argue my points and merits but would rather cling to your belief that console-hardware is somehow magically different from PC-hardware and therefore your precious Dark Souls could never run on PC then go ahead but if anyone's and IGN/GAMESPOT-fag here it is certainly you

I never said anything like what you're suggesting. Magically different? WTF are you on about? Who said DS couldn't run on PC... what the fuck has this got to do with anything?.... sorry, man you're not making any sense... go sober up.

the codex is about PC-RPGs, and there are good reasons behind it.

Um, no. The codex is what we make it. There's hundreds of threads discussing console games, so I don't know where you get the idea it's about PC-RPG's (or PC games for that matter) exclusively.

whenever we mention them all the consoleplayers gather around, wrap their sweaty hands round their ears and shout "lalalalala" till we go away.

Well, I don't - I listen and contribute if I can, because hey - I'm a gamer and I play console games. I just happen to prefer PC games (mostly).

well i'm just about to. your ignorance makes sweet blood flow from my butthole and i hate it when the codex does that to me

You're the PC elitist biggot, with conspiracy therories spewing from your ass and I'm ignorant? Go take a valium and sleep it off.

 

[Grunker]

OK, I write without uppercase letters = I'm stoned.

Right on bro. Your replies are retarded bullshit that go after the man instead of the ball. I'm willing to continue this discussion, but not as long as you insist on putting lead in your ears and yelling at me for random console-hate when that's clearly not the case. I have not ONCE said anything along the lines of 'consoletard' or even HINTED at feeling superior for playing PC - I've only presented arguments for my case. The fact that you insist on turning this into some kind of retarded faction war is amusing but ultimately not something I wish to spend my time on.

Stoned as well as drunk. Huh. That's a new one.

You're the PC elitist biggot

hohoho

faggot

obviously i'm an elitist nevermind that i'm not arguing i'm better than console-players just that consoles are shit

THE AMOUNT OF STRAWMAN IS OVER 9000

 

[Grunker]

Grunker your arguments are going to seem over the top to most people, since there's really nothing that terrible about buying hardware just for gaming. If you have the money you might do it just for convenience, have a work PC upstairs on your desk and a gaming box in the living room as a gaming/media centre, why not? This is especially true if like me you need to own a laptop for work reasons. Spending £400 on a laptop and £200 on a console every 4-5 years doesn't seem like a bad deal compared to the ruinous amounts I used to spend on keeping a gaming desktop up to date. I suppose technically if my laptop breaks I'll temporarily regret not being able to run office on my xbox, but the risk is not that great really.

Name one thing that a PC cannot do that a console can, or alternatively one benefit of having consoles to consumers. And no, false compatability issues are not a benefit to consumers neither a hard restriction that counts as something the console can achieve that PC can't.

Secondly there is a real advantage for developers in having a fixed platform to target

Such as the PC

Also I don't see why your argument couldn't be generalised to include anything developed for windows PCs, again if it's only developer laziness that prevents it running natively on a linux box. Isn't windows a money making scam as well?

Windows is software. A console is hardware. We can't run anything at all without an operative system, so sadly, Windows is a necessary evil. Consoles by no means are.

 

[BLOBERT]

the day the codex starts giving awards to one of the most blatant threats against gaming in general is a sad day indeed

Grunker wrote, tears marring his black eyeliner,

 

[Grunker]

to be fair bro i did acknowledge that i was butthurt

sweet blood flows from my butthole and i hate it when the codex does that to me

 

[made]

Name one thing that a PC cannot do that a console can

Run Dark Souls, obviously.

 

[Grunker]

And no, false compatability issues are not a benefit to consumers neither a hard restriction that counts as something the console can achieve that PC can't.

 

[made]

But exclusive titles are pretty much the only reason to own a console. Who in their right mind would buy one if he could play the same games on a PC?

 

[GordonHalfman]

Exclusive titles are the practical reason for getting a console, the question is whether the practical outweighs Grunker's ideological objections. I don't think it matters that consoles are crippled PCs, it just matters that they can do what you bought them to do, since there's plenty of reasons to own a second general purpose computer anyway and in practice the cost of console + entry level laptop over a 4-5 year cycle is at least competitive with keeping up with the latest PC iron. I suppose if Microsoft allowed you to install windows on an xbox there'd be no objections to them, but this can't be that important since in practice hardly anyone would bother.

Such as the PC

I meant fixed hardware, as opposed to having to target every combination of kit that's above the min spec. In the best possible world there'd be some way for this to die a necessary death without the need for locked boxes, but it's a still a real advantage.

Windows is software. A console is hardware. We can't run anything at all without an operative system, so sadly, Windows is a necessary evil. Consoles by no means are.

Why is it necessary when open operating systems exist?

 

[Grunker]

I meant fixed hardware, as opposed to having to target every combination of kit that's above the min spec. In the best possible world there'd be some way for this to die a necessary death without the need for locked boxes, but it's a still a real advantage.

so that's why there are no bugs on consoles and why patches don't exist

Why is it necessary when open operating systems exist?

because those open operating systems are shit

i love the idea of linux but one of the best presentations i've ever seen of anything is from one of the best programmers on linux. the presentation is called "linux is shit"

for an advanced user they are fine, but they are not effective enough to be mainstream and games need to have an audience

 

[bot]

I don't really care about the whole discussion, but Microsoft and Sony made losses with each sold console for a while. Make as much people buy your hardware as possible (even if you lose money this way) and then rely on the peripherals and games to rake in the money. So, by buying the console and nothing else, you are trolling Microsoft/Sony big time.

Console you are going to buy has already been produced and sits on a shelve of some retailer. Big sales numbers --> rising share price --> bonuses for CEO --> more money funneled into console department in the future.

Updated my list. Added: DOTA 2

I guess this makes as much sense as Skyrim. But at least the latter one has been released.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO GRUNKER YOU HAVE TO ADMIT A CONSOLE TAKES MUCH LESS FUCKING WITH TO GET SHIT TO WORK RIGHT ARGUING THAT POINT IS A LOSING BATTLE

BROS YOU HAVE ALMOST MOTIVATED ME TO BRING MY DESKTOP DOWNSTAIRS AND GET IT HOOKED TO A TV AND SEE HOW THAT WORKS AS A MEDIA CENTER INSTEAD OF THE FAGBOX

 

[Grunker]

i use my pc as a media center it works better than ps3 at least (we used one of those when i lived at my cousins)

BRO GRUNKER YOU HAVE TO ADMIT A CONSOLE TAKES MUCH LESS FUCKING WITH TO GET SHIT TO WORK RIGHT ARGUING THAT POINT IS A LOSING BATTLE

it is my humble opinion that without the existence of consoles there would be an industry built around gadgets or similar to solve this "problem" (which is becoming less and less of a factor - pcs are getting more easy to handle and consoles share an increasingly high amount of the pcs compatability issues because it has to work with other pieces of hardware AND software for example to become an effective media center)

in fact hooking up the aforementioned ps3 as a media center was notably more difficult than just connecting a single cable to from the pc to the screen

i will concede however that the above point is speculative, but it remains my belief that the pc has a very significant amount of advantages over consoles that the general consumer does not know about which is one of the few reasons the console market exists

as any economist of any political belief will tell you, the more information on a market the better and i believe there is a sore lack of information with regards to hardware

 

[Blunderbusty]

Oops, logged in accidentally as my temp alt....

Look Grunker, I apologise if my last post sounded condesending - it was, but come on... go back and read your tirade and tell me you didn't sound pretty fucking childish.

By the way, I wasn't yelling at you - I was trying to be as calm and consise as possible.

And seriously, you think it's me trying to turn this into a faction war?... seriously?? ... I'm the one that doesn't care one way or the other about what platform a game is played on. Although naturally I'd prefer if everything was on PC and the consoles would just go away - but that ain't gonna happen.

Name one thing that a PC cannot do that a console can

Ok. A PC can't act as a Media Centre Extender - my 360 can and apart from games, that's it's other primary function. In fact, it's media functionality is so good, and they're so damn cheap at the moment (under $200au for the 4gb model) - I'm thinking about getting a couple more slim 360's for other rooms.

EDIT: Oops, BLOBERT beat me to it. BTW - the 360's media functionality is far superiour to that of the PS3's - mainly because of it's Media Centre functionality.

Oh, and BLOBERT - I use a PC as my primary Media Centre on my lounge - dual digital HD tuners and such - it's fucking awsome! Coupled with a couple of 360's in other rooms acting as MC extenders - enabling them all the functionality of the main MC PC (including access to the TV tuners) and it's the perfect setup.

Also, as I previously mentioned - the PC can't play console exclusive games - emulation of the current gen won't happen for a good long while (5-10 yrs at least).

Anyway, clearly no one's going to change your mind (nor mine) so I'm going back on my 360 to play the best action RPG ever released - have fun in Skyrim dude...

 

[Grunker]

Except for that last cheap shot I guess we're even. Oh and my PC functions just fine as a media centre, I don't know what you're on about. As for the exclusive games, I have responded to that point three times, dunno why you keep repeating it.

I'm sure you're right we're not going to convince each other in the Console vs. PC discussion but we don't have to. We were discussing policies of the Codex. Now, you seem to agree that the PC is clearly a superior medium, yet you hold onto the belief that we should open the gate for the consoles.

I ask you: "why?"

Your argument is: "it's never going to change so why yell about it". If you hold to this I find it very strange indeed that you hang out on the Codex. With that same line of argument one could just as easily dismiss the Codex' pillars of industry criticism, streamlining, and so on. Now, we obviously can't say "you can't vote for stream-lined games" because people have different definitions, but it's much easier to say "you can only vote for PC games".

PC is the superior medium. The Codex by its nature should be about holding to this fact.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

PC is the superior medium. The Codex by its nature should be about holding to this fact.

I sure as hell didn't read 18 pages of this shit, so forgive me if someone's already posed this question (feel free to copy paste, bro). Here goes. We're the RPG Codex, right? We're here and pissed off 24/7/365 HULKRAGING because Beth/Bio/Obsidian and the rest of mainstream developers nowadays release, for the most part, total shit not worth playing. We have demands that really aren't being fully met. Why, if we are so starved for good releases, should we give a fuck what platform a hypothetical good release is on (within reason)?

I used to be all SIEG HEIL PC MASTER RACE....when there were good reasons, for me, to own a gaming PC. Now anything worth looking in the RPG genre could run on a shitty laptop like the kind they air-drop in Africa to try and keep kids from killing each other or spreading HIV. The PC may be a theoretically better platform than any console, but in the current industry climate, there's no one taking advantage of it. In fact, the industry has made it real rough to be a PC gamer, unless you're sailing the seven seas.

TROLL TIME: Maybe PCTARDs are just butthurt that consoles have a bunch of dungeon crawlers (even new Wizardry games), tactics games with character progression (good enough to be RPGs to me because I play as laptop guy/offscreen general dude), and much better action RPGs (Souls games, Devil Summoner, Way of the Samurai) in the past few years while the PC is left with Twitcher, Rimjob, Derp Age, Diablows, and Dung Siege, with a few indie vaporware titles that are actually good (and don't require a dedicated gaming PC).

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Except for that last cheap shot I guess we're even.

Wasn't really a cheap shot, unless you really are jealous you can't play Dark Souls? The difference is of course, I have the luxury of being able to play both and because of some misguided predjudices - you dont'.

Oh and my PC functions just fine as a media centre, I don't know what you're on about.

Yes, so does my PC - BUT, it can't act as a Media Centre extender - if you don't know what that is, go look it up. It really is one of the best reasons to own a 360. Pleanty of people are buying them just for that purpose - just as lots of people buy PS3's purely as a Blueray player (yeah, retarded I know).

As for the exclusive games, I have responded to that point three times, dunno why you keep repeating it.

Because it's true and it's the reason I own consoles - it's the whole point of my argument.

I'm sure you're right we're not going to convince each other in the Console vs. PC discussion but we don't have to. We were discussing policies of the Codex. Now, you seem to agree that the PC is clearly a superior medium, yet you hold onto the belief that we should open the gate for the consoles.

I ask you: "why?"

Yes, I most certainly agree PC is the superior platform - for me it always has been and always will be.

As far as policies of the codex - I didn't even know there were any and I've been a member for 4 years and a lurker for a couple before that. As far as opening the gate for consoles - have a look at the hundreds of threads discussing console games and tell me they aren't already open.

Your argument is: "it's never going to change so why yell about it".

That's not my argument at all - I simply want to play (and discuss) what ever game I want regardless of what hardware it runs on.

If you hold to this I find it very strange indeed that you hang out on the Codex.

Why? I love video games and I enjoy talking with like minded people. Are you saying I'm not jaded and cynical enough to hang out here?

With that same line of argument one could just as easily dismiss the Codex' pillars of industry criticism, streamlining, and so on.

No and I'm not adverse to jumping in and joining those criticisms becuse I agree with them - THAT's why I'm here.

Now, we obviously can't say "you can't vote for stream-lined games" because people have different definitions, but it's much easier to say "you can only vote for PC games".

So modern PC games are not streamlined and all console game are? No man, all I was objecting to was the fact that what I (and many other's here too I might add) consider to be one of the best games released in years ON ANY PLATFORM - must be excluded from this list because of the hardware it runs on.

PC is the superior medium.

Yes... yes it is.

The Codex by its nature should be about holding to this fact.

Now this is the main point we'll have to agree to disagree about.

 

[Grunker]

stuff

Sorry bro, but I'm not gonna answer this directly. I answered all of it in the last couple of pages.

Yes, so does my PC - BUT, it can't act as a Media Centre extender

Sure, but that's because it has no need to. You can buy a cheap laptop that can run more files with more ease than an XBOX. Set it up to the network and you TV. Transfer the files via the network to the laptop. Congrats, you now have basically the same functionality with more compatability, easy support for subtitles for pirated films, and so on.

have a look at the hundreds of threads discussing console games and tell me they aren't already open.

No, you take a look at the site's content - news, reviews, and so on, and tell me that they are. I'm not arguing we should limit discussion I'm arguing that until there's a point to doing otherwise we keep it out of content.

And bloody hell man, of course the Codex has policies. Are you such a fool that you can't acknowledge for instance the Codex policies of a free forum culture and a general tendency to be extremely critical?

That's not my argument at all

Bullshit. At every turn, you posts ultimately conclude that "yes yes consoles are bad but it won't change so why do anything about it"

Are you saying I'm not jaded and cynical enough to hang out here?

No, the reverse. You're so jaded and cynical you've apparantly given up criticism and resistance.

So modern PC games are not streamlined and all console game are?

WHAT THE FUCK WHEN DID I SAY ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY LIKE THIS HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

fuck this discussion if you're going to revert to these retarded assumptions everytime I make a post. seriously

must be excluded from this list because of the hardware it runs on.

I see nothing wrong with this fact and I believe I've argued better for my point and from more angles than you have. In the end, this does not amount to anything more than a difference of opinion, but I strongly hold that we should not begin promoting Facebook or iPad games on this site - it's something we're inherently critical off.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Sorry bro, but I'm not gonna answer this directly. I answered all of it in the last couple of pages.

Sure, but that's because it has no need to. You can buy a cheap laptop that can run more files with more ease than an XBOX. Set it up to the network and you TV. Transfer the files via the network to the laptop. Congrats, you now have basically the same functionality with more compatability, easy support for subtitles for pirated films, and so on.

Nah, you missed the point and/or have never used a MC extender. For far less than any PC or laptop of similar capability (currently about $190 au), I can buy an Xbox 360 slim with Wireless N and have it connect with my PC wirelessly and literally run Windows 7 Media Centre on the 360 with ALL the functionality - just as if I was running it on the PC. For instance, my PC has dual HDTV tuners, so I can watch on HD channel on the 360 while someone else watches a different channel on the PC. It can of course access and stream all the files on my PC as well, with support for pirated films and subtitles for instance.

Oh, and by the way - I CAN ALSO PLAY THE LATEST GAMES ON IT - try that on a cheap ass laptop.

And bloody hell man, of course the Codex has policies. Are you such a fool that you can't acknowledge for instance the Codex policies of a free forum culture and a general tendency to be extremely critical?

WTF? Mate, culture and tendencies are not policies.

Bullshit. At every turn, you posts ultimately conclude that "yes yes consoles are bad but it won't change so why do anything about it"

Nonsense. English is not your first language is it?

No, the reverse. You're so jaded and cynical you've apparantly given up criticism and resistance.

I haven't given up. I just think there are actually some decent games on console and some equally good reasons for owning and talking about them.

WHAT THE FUCK WHEN DID I SAY ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY LIKE THIS HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

fuck this discussion if you're going to revert to these retarded assumptions everytime I make a post. seriously

Now there you go getting your knickers all twisted again... just steady down dude... take a few deep breaths before you post.

You said we can't just say "no stramlined games", but we can say "no console games" - what do you think that sounds like?

I see nothing wrong with this fact and I believe I've argued better for my point and from more angles than you have. In the end, this does not amount to anything more than a difference of opinion, but I strongly hold that we should not begin promoting Facebook or iPad games on this site - it's something we're inherently critical off.

No, you haven't. It's just the same bullshit over and over about consoles spelling the end of gaming as we know it. And who said anything about Facebook? As for iPad... you do know you can play retro PC games on a jailbroken iPad right? And sure, if they ever release a game worthy of discussion on iPad, I see nothing wrong with that either. Discussion does not = promotion however.