Best way to play Baldur's Gate

[Farewell into the night]

You need to start with Fallout.

 

[carole kind]

play as the child of murder

 

[NJClaw]

Background images or not, BG2 has more Minsc-Boo jokes so I think it's pretty clear which one is the better game.

 

[carole kind]

when you click on the hamster it squeaks NJClaw

 

[CappenVarra]

God damn these degenerate shield designs in BG2.

I like how only 3 or so pages ago a guy was seriously asking if people here suffer from mental issues

laugh all you want mate, i know i have it coming :D

however, if a game has a high art budget (for the time, and type of game) but none of the artists seem able to draw a shield that looks like something you'd block an incoming melee attack with (or somebody tells them they're not allowed to) - in a D&D game - it tells you something about the game and its merit, does it not?

 

[carole kind]

infinitron said bg was devoloped as a strategy game

 

[carole kind]

my point is bg3 is without original developers

 

[Nano]

The city of Athkatla is not contiguous and logically laid out like BG:

Agree with a lot of your post but that picture just makes Baldur's Gate look smaller than it should be. BioWare made the right call with Athkatla.

 

[NJClaw]

The city of Athkatla is not contiguous and logically laid out like BG:

Agree with a lot of your post but that picture just makes Baldur's Gate look smaller than it should be. BioWare made the right call with Athkatla.

"Here's the majestic city of Baldur's Gate: there are 100.000 people and exactly 180 buildings".

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

laugh all you want mate, i know i have it coming :D

however, if a game has a high art budget (for the time, and type of game) but none of the artists seem able to draw a shield that looks like something you'd block an incoming melee attack with (or somebody tells them they're not allowed to) - in a D&D game - it tells you something about the game and its merit, does it not?

Fwiw I explicitly remember running BG2 for the first time and thinking shields look p retarded. It's just definitely not the kind of thing that would cause an autistic meltdown or calling the game "utter shit", especially when it felt like a huge incline on the gameplay front.

On a general level, I could say a lot of harsh things about the game, but definitely not that it's ugly.

I also agree that, when looking into the abyss that is the "common consensus", you get the impression that BG2 retains its cult status because people think "minsc and boo are so random lol xd". What I don't agree about is game retaining cult status because people think clearing fog of war from 20 forest/rock areas gives a great sense of adventure being that much better.

infinitron said bg was devoloped as a strategy game

As an rts, yes. As above, it's fairly obvious from its core gameplay.

 

[Dramart]

* treatment of Imoen - in the first game you dump her after taking the wand and potion and never hear from her again; in BG2 she's plot-centric and mandatory and don't you dare think otherwise

So? It's not anything wrong if the developers thing a characters is important for the story, it's not their problem if you're autistic and you don't like Imoen

* walk around for half an hour after starting the game and count the number of times you're interrupted by dialogue initiated by NPCs (either party members talking about their feelings, or random idiots giving you chores)

Better to walk in boring areas like BG. Anyways if you don't like the conversations there is unpolite response to end it immediatly.

monocled BG1 menu vs. degenerate BG2 menu:

Really? Just because the background menu is a rock and the other is paper, the first one is better. Almost irrelevant.

Want to talk about mechanics next? Story progression? Writing?

Talk about the story and writing, maybe that can redeem this boring game.

Neera is my waifu, pls don't steal.

Nobody is going the steal from you that ugly and retarded bitch you're safe

 

[Chippy]

Dramart If you want an example of the different writing styles, I'd say that BG1 built a world and then each of the factions and groups were tied into it. BG2 on the other hand, built the characters first and the world second.

So as an example: I felt like I was in the city of Baldur's Gate: working for the Flaming Fist and the intrigue/politics there, the enmity between the priesthood, the thieves guild was better written (lingo), the sewer section was more developed (and if you were really roleplaying, could be used to avoid the flaming fist when they were hunting you). Also the little quests here and there were more interesting than some of the major quests in Athkatla in BG2: the quest with the priest who killed his brother, the bar fight, getting a major hero's cloak and helm. Robbing the museum. All of that. Then you came back later in the game, and the city had changed - as had all of its citizens to your actions.

And that wasn't even a comprehensive list.

Now compare that to Athkatla.

 

[Ninjerk]

BG2 is written like a children's cartoon with an everpresent MUAHAHAsoevil villain. BG1 teases the villain at the beginning, but he has more important things to do than MUAHAHA i tOrTuRe U 24/7 like he's some kind of high school bully.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

25% recommends Enchanted Edition?



Codex is going downhill.

 

[oldmanpaco]

25% recommends Enchanted Edition?



Codex is going downhill.

25% of codex want their chivos!

 

[Gargaune]

25% of codex want their chivos!

No, 25% of the Codex really want our Quick Loot! Just play the Enhanced Editions, ignore Neera, and lie to the Codex.

 

[Nano]

Dramart If you want an example of the different writing styles, I'd say that BG1 built a world and then each of the factions and groups were tied into it. BG2 on the other hand, built the characters first and the world second.

So as an example: I felt like I was in the city of Baldur's Gate: working for the Flaming Fist and the intrigue/politics there, the enmity between the priesthood, the thieves guild was better written (lingo), the sewer section was more developed (and if you were really roleplaying, could be used to avoid the flaming fist when they were hunting you). Also the little quests here and there were more interesting than some of the major quests in Athkatla in BG2: the quest with the priest who killed his brother, the bar fight, getting a major hero's cloak and helm. Robbing the museum. All of that. Then you came back later in the game, and the city had changed - as had all of its citizens to your actions.

And that wasn't even a comprehensive list.

Now compare that to Athkatla.

Dude, BG1 doesn't even have factions. I'm pretty sure you're eventually forced to accept help from the Flaming Fist to progress in the story.

 

[laclongquan]

The city of Athkatla is not contiguous and logically laid out like BG:

I will point out that Baldur's Gate starting out as a fortress, a base for pirate fleets return for rest and recovery. Aka it's made first for defense, a military base. Thus it's easy to define from start with logic and thoughtfulness. This is a characteristic of most military-origin cities.

Athkatla, on the other, is the city of merchants, the very center of Waukeen, goddess of merchants and money. As any merchant city in history can show: they are developed haphazardly and deliberately without clear guidelines.

 

[NJClaw]

25% of codex want their chivos!

No, 25% of the Codex really want our Quick Loot! Just play the Enhanced Editions, ignore Neera, and lie to the Codex.

Jokes on you: I want my quick loot AND I like Neera. She is such a cutie pie.

 

[Serus]

Better play JA2 or ToEE or KoTC or Fallout 1 or 2 or Underrail or... if you haven't played those. Either way skip BG1.

 

[Chippy]

Dramart If you want an example of the different writing styles, I'd say that BG1 built a world and then each of the factions and groups were tied into it. BG2 on the other hand, built the characters first and the world second.

So as an example: I felt like I was in the city of Baldur's Gate: working for the Flaming Fist and the intrigue/politics there, the enmity between the priesthood, the thieves guild was better written (lingo), the sewer section was more developed (and if you were really roleplaying, could be used to avoid the flaming fist when they were hunting you). Also the little quests here and there were more interesting than some of the major quests in Athkatla in BG2: the quest with the priest who killed his brother, the bar fight, getting a major hero's cloak and helm. Robbing the museum. All of that. Then you came back later in the game, and the city had changed - as had all of its citizens to your actions.

And that wasn't even a comprehensive list.

Now compare that to Athkatla.

Dude, BG1 doesn't even have factions. I'm pretty sure you're eventually forced to accept help from the Flaming Fist to progress in the story.

Pffft. I take it you mean I was specifically talking about the factions type scenario in certain games like Fallout: NV where you had to join one as you advanced through the game.

That's a technicality.

Look at the BG1 manual (that paper bound thing woth words printed on it) on page 52: it lists "Power Groups of the Sword Coast". Harpers, Iron Throne, Red Wizards, Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim, Mages of Halruaa. So these were factions/groups that were tied to the world and the city of BG, and you interacted with them. In some cases it was a great reveal when you discovered certain party members were tied to them as well.

That's all I meant.

 

[Nano]

Pffft. I take it you mean I was specifically talking about the factions type scenario in certain games like Fallout: NV where you had to join one as you advanced through the game.

That's a technicality.

Look at the BG1 manual (that paper bound thing woth words printed on it) on page 52: it lists "Power Groups of the Sword Coast". Harpers, Iron Throne, Red Wizards, Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim, Mages of Halruaa. So these were factions/groups that were tied to the world and the city of BG, and you interacted with them. In some cases it was a great reveal when you discovered certain party members were tied to them as well.

That's all I meant.

Okay, but that doesn't take away from the lameness of it. Having no factions at all for the player to side with is one thing, but being forced to help one, which is what BG1 does, is another.

 

[Chippy]

Nano I'm not sure I get your point? Remember this game came out in 1998 or so. How much reactivity did we have in games like that then? Are you saying that this minor point invalidated the overall quality of the story?.

It made sense to me that they player would work with the flaming fist to

Spoiler

reveal a ploy/coup within the city

It's certainly not a limiting grade type of thing. What I mean by that is like: a mechanic that forgets to put oil in your engine on a service, or a teacher that thinks all black kids are dumb, etc.

 

[Dramart]

BG2 is written like a children's cartoon with an everpresent MUAHAHAsoevil villain. BG1 teases the villain at the beginning, but he has more important things to do than MUAHAHA i tOrTuRe U 24/7 like he's some kind of high school bully.

He's evil but he has a purpose, he seeks power and the tortures and his experiments have a reason. I don't know if you played the game but he wants something from the main character. He wants power and he doesn't care the means to get it, and also he wants revenge. I liked him as a villain, every encounter with him was interesting and I was really interested in having a combat with him. So the thing is he is obviously evil and a bully but he has a purpose, when you know more of him he becomes a plausible character and not just evil muahahaa.

Dramart If you want an example of the different writing styles, I'd say that BG1 built a world and then each of the factions and groups were tied into it. BG2 on the other hand, built the characters first and the world second.

So as an example: I felt like I was in the city of Baldur's Gate: working for the Flaming Fist and the intrigue/politics there, the enmity between the priesthood, the thieves guild was better written (lingo), the sewer section was more developed (and if you were really roleplaying, could be used to avoid the flaming fist when they were hunting you). Also the little quests here and there were more interesting than some of the major quests in Athkatla in BG2: the quest with the priest who killed his brother, the bar fight, getting a major hero's cloak and helm. Robbing the museum. All of that. Then you came back later in the game, and the city had changed - as had all of its citizens to your actions.

And that wasn't even a comprehensive list.

Now compare that to Athkatla.

I don't know what have of special the quests you refer to or in what way the city changed. I will pay more attention to the secondary quests the next time I play. The ones you mention are related to main plot? Because that's the one I wanted to know, I don't remember very well the story of secondary quests in BG2. In BG2 there are similar quest, one quest of a serial killer, one guy who had his sister killed I remember correctly, Anomen, he can be in your party, you also have a fight in a bar, and also robbery in a temple. Examples of the world changing I remember one quest in which you save a city and they make statues of you and your party. But I don't remember if they had some bullshit and didn't pay very much attention to details.

 

[Chippy]

Dramart The factions power groups within the city respond to you

Spoiler

being labelled as murderers of the iron throne leaders

You meet a representative of the thieves guild (who you later discover represents another organisation), then you've got the two power groups that respond to whichever pair of companions you have in your party, then there's another two shadowy information dealers that you can meet in certain inns, and tell you what happened while you were away. The citizens respond to the events taking place. I'm pretty sure the rumours in the inns do as well. The fact that you can get a smuggler to smuggle you into the city was a great touch. The Flaming Fist was out to get you.

That's the point: all these little touches here and there built the world. Even the average citizen you meet had relevant information for you: on your first visit to BG there was that guy that owed money to the Seven Suns, or the Iron Throne; and he mentions that the trader avoided him instead of paying thugs to break his kneecaps.

You could even uncover important information by going to the fortune teller in the circus area.

That's what builds a game world for me. You could tell BG was a labour of love. In comparison, what did you get when you returned to Athkatla? Just visiting each of the power groups to aid you in a big battle ahead if I remember correctly.