Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[Roguey]

Ken Levine on marketing Bioshock: Infinite to fratboys ( http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/12/bioshock-infinite-box-art/ ):

I saw Bioshock commercials on television and saw it shamelessly plugged on 30 Rock (granted, no fratboys are ever going to watch that). How very strange this is.

 

[Metro]

After some contemplation, I decided that this game will be shit.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery.

 

[Turjan]

After some contemplation, I decided that this game will be shit.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery.

Yup. Buying the game on day 2 will show the publisher his displeasure.

 

[Jaesun]

Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

This is true.

Enter new room, get ambushed by monsters: THE GAME is no fucking homage in any way to to SS2.

 

[Angthoron]

Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

This is true.

Enter new room, get ambushed by monsters: THE GAME is no fucking homage in any way to to SS2.

Spaceship gets taken over by mind-possessing, body-warping threat from a surface of a planet; survivor gets guided by telecom until the people he'd trusted turn out to not be what he thinks they are; transferring temporarily to another vessel to fight a threat onboard it; end sequence with DEADLY FEMALE lifted directly from SS2. Player has much less of an abundance of ammo and cash in game (unless you just carry 2 universal guns, in which case you're set for life as ammo depends on weapons you carry, hurr) than in BS. Yeah, this game doesn't try to be System Shock 2 with modern consolititis at all.

Thing is, yeah, it does it poorly, absolutely, yet it still works better as a "spiritual successor" than the actual "successor" does.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Oh, one more thing. There's a significant other difference between SS2 and BS.

In SS2, the story services the game. The characters, they're there to add to the atmosphere. They're the spice.
In BS, the story IS the game. The characters are central to the experience, their memories, their stories, their opinions - not just a side-dish of sauce, no, they're the actual main course.

In SS2, the character were scientists, astronauts and workers so it is kind of plausible to find their personal disks with logs about their mission, but in bioshock, you get logs in those big cassette players, and you're supposed to believe that Rapture dwellers were having a "normal" city life and went on recording journal entries on those.

Other thing that really bothered me in BS is the fact that you could go back to a previous level, and the little sisters and big daddies would be there as if you hadn't already colleted their adam...

And for the record, I aways thought that deus ex was more a spiritual sucessor to SS 1 and 2 than BS ever was.

 

[Angthoron]

Oh, one more thing. There's a significant other difference between SS2 and BS.

In SS2, the story services the game. The characters, they're there to add to the atmosphere. They're the spice.
In BS, the story IS the game. The characters are central to the experience, their memories, their stories, their opinions - not just a side-dish of sauce, no, they're the actual main course.

In SS2, the character were scientists, astronauts and workers so it is kind of plausible to find their personal disks with logs about their mission, but in bioshock, you get logs in those big cassette players, and you're supposed to believe that Rapture dwellers were having a "normal" city life and went on recording journal entries on those.

Yes, cassette recorders in such plausible places like restaurants, recorded IN the restaurant are very plausible. I record myself in restaurants all the time, especially when I'm sitting next to people I'm gossiping about.

 

[DraQ]

DraQ, my brother in potato, you are surely going off the deep edge of Asperger's in this thread. First, SS2's story is bad because something unbelievable happens before it begins (as opposed to hivemind aliens with psychic powers)

You miss the point completely. Psi powers are part of the premise you sort of have to agree to accept before you even start playing. They are part of the established universe.

OTOH establishing interstellar distances as significant obstacles and FTL travel as newly discovered and hard to achieve possibility in one part of the premise, then just dismissing it in the other is just plain inconsistent and shitty writting.

Had BW done something of this grade, we'd demand all their writers to be hauled to gas chambers, so why the double standard?
(in before examples of such derp in BW games and links to threads where such demands were made)

; now you're trying to make a point by comparing the gameplay of a first person, single player video game with a classical 1v1 boardgame.

It wasn't me who made generalized statement, but fine, replace Tetris and Go with first person single player examples like Doom and Wolfenstein 3D.

Same fucking difference.

On a related note, Bioshock is not a spiritual successor to SS2 in any way, shape, or form. Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

Agreed. Plus, DS has won my heart with 0G and vacuum segments.

Too bad shitty DRM has prevented me from buying renting it.

And for the record, I aways thought that deus ex was more a spiritual sucessor to SS 1 and 2 than BS ever was.

And what does DX have in common with SS?

Apart from being in first person and there being guns in it? Glowing blue hi-tech sword?

 

[Darth Slaughter]

And for the record, I aways thought that deus ex was more a spiritual sucessor to SS 1 and 2 than BS ever was.

And what does DX have in common with SS?

Apart from being in first person and there being guns in it? Glowing blue hi-tech sword?

I said that considering the term "spiritual sucessor" somewhat a subjective concept that I myself don't rely upon. Either you have a sequel, or you have a clone. There really is no such thing as a spiritual sucessor.

The fact that I feel Deus ex is a spiritual sucessor was more due to the fact I felt that after playing SS 2 and heard the news they were going to release Deus Ex. Deus Ex was not a common FPS by the time it was released, as SS wasn't too. In late 90's, FPS were games like Unreal, Quake, pure action FPSs. And after SS2, Deus ex was the next game by the same kind of group of developers that came from origin systems and LGS from Ultima Underworld days.

Deus Ex also had similar Thief stealth mechanics and incorporated similar gameplay of LGS games, like leaning, objects that can be dropped in one location and they would stay there if you go back to that area. It's funny also because SS2 uses the dark engine. The inventory system is somewhat similar in SS2 and Deus Ex. And both have strong cyberpunk themes, advanced artifiacial inteligence (Shodan, Xerxes, Helios, Daedalus), similar gimmicks, like hacking (bioshock had too, but is more like a copy, and it was more a plumbing game). They only differ in the genre approach, Deus Ex being a government global conspiracy, and SS fllowing a sci-fi horror adventure. And in Deus Ex, you had alive NPCs.

Another thing is that both SS2 and Deus ex were sold in their times as full RPGs, something people here and everywhere now avoid, calling these games FPS with RPG elements. I can even accept people calling SS 2 and Deus Ex RPGs, but I can never feel the same way about BS.

There's an interesting thing about SS2, that it had stats and weapons that would break, Just like an Ultima Underworld game, and the first SS, although used the UU engine, didn't really had any of these features.

BS is more like a bad copy of SS 2, to the point that the villain pretends to be your ally and guide through the game, just as in SS2. Made by the same guys by the way.

Finally, the pleasure I had playing SS 2 and Deus Ex were quite similar, and while I finished bioshock, the only thing I really remember is that BS is mostly boring.

 

[dnf]

I like that the abreviatture for Bioshock(BS) is the same as Bullshit

 

[toro]

This is pointless. After all these intellectual, witty, smug, shitty, sarcastic, stupid and anachronistic comments, we *all* will march to a game store, Steam or tpb and play the shit out of Bioshock Infinite, Bioshock Infinite 2, Bioshock Infinite Eternity ... or whatever.

And you know why? Because we *all* want to re-live playing SS2 at least for a couple of moments. And this time, even if we will suffer like addicts looking for the next shot, there is no end in sight.

But it's been 14 years of silence
It's been 14 years of pain
It's been 14 years that are gone forever
And I'll never have again

 

[Angthoron]

This is pointless. After all these intellectual, witty, smug, shitty, sarcastic, stupid and anachronistic comments, we *all* will march to a game store, Steam or tpb and play the shit out of Bioshock Infinite, Bioshock Infinite 2, Bioshock Infinite Eternity ... or whatever.

Nope. Maybe "all" will, but I'm not even a little bit curious. 3 dollar Steam sale in a year, maybe, when it doesn't affect any kind of standings anymore.

Fuck all those hipster devs, trying to cash in on "nostalgia goggles" while, at the same time, mocking their own cusomers and telling them to get on with the times. Fuck them for trying to appear even a tiny bit intellectual, when they can't even tie loose end of a three-page story together. Fuck their circle-jerk, fuck their hype, and most of all, fuck Ken Levine.

 

[Metro]

This is pointless. After all these intellectual, witty, smug, shitty, sarcastic, stupid and anachronistic comments, we *all* will march to a game store, Steam or tpb and play the shit out of Bioshock Infinite, Bioshock Infinite 2, Bioshock Infinite Eternity ... or whatever.

Um... no? I bought Bioshock 1 for $5 on Steam years ago to see what all the fuss was about. I played it for three or four hours before I got bored. Have never considered buying Bioshock 2. Will never consider buying Bioshock Infinite.

 

[ohWOW]

I played the demo of bioshock 1 and it's just a shitty game.

 

[Rhalle]

The first Bioshock was a solid game, however overrated. One of them in that mold was enough. I'm not sure why it's now a franchise.

 

[villain of the story]

I watched the gameplay trailer to BioShit Infinity. So is this game a Shoot'em-Up now? I literally couldn't tell whether player movement was automatic on-rails or not. A few segments that lasted a few seconds felt like the player was moving around on his own will but I cannot be certain. At any rate, it didn't seem like there was anything of interest in the environments to make you want to move on your own will anyway.

It also looks like utter shit, especially with all the consolized indicators for enemy health, kill scores and everything. Disgusting.

 

[DraQ]

This is pointless. After all these intellectual, witty, smug, shitty, sarcastic, stupid and anachronistic comments, we *all* will march to a game store, Steam or tpb and play the shit out of Bioshock Infinite, Bioshock Infinite 2, Bioshock Infinite Eternity ... or whatever.

Ban toro.

I said that considering the term "spiritual sucessor" somewhat a subjective concept that I myself don't rely upon. Either you have a sequel, or you have a clone. There really is no such thing as a spiritual sucessor.

Game that is meant to evoke the same feeling, atmosphere and play more or less the same, despite not being an official sequel or set in the same continuity.

Deus Ex also had similar Thief stealth mechanics and incorporated similar gameplay of LGS games, like leaning, objects that can be dropped in one location and they would stay there if you go back to that area. It's funny also because SS2 uses the dark engine.

Except SS2 was generally pretty brightly lit and didn't really allow for non-psi stealth, so not really.

The inventory system is somewhat similar in SS2 and Deus Ex.

Also in Diablo.

And both have strong cyberpunk themes, advanced artifiacial inteligence (Shodan, Xerxes, Helios, Daedalus), similar gimmicks, like hacking

In other words stapple of cyberpunkish Sci-Fi.

They only differ in the genre approach, Deus Ex being a government global conspiracy, and SS fllowing a sci-fi horror adventure. And in Deus Ex, you had alive NPCs.

Only.

They 'only' differed in elements that pretty much defined the whole experience.

How very spiritual successor.

 

[Dexter]

I definitely agree, but I don't think it's the main reason why Bioshock was considered a disappointment. People were expecting a game with an RPG level of mechanical complexity and instead they got a shooter. The theme park atmosphere was just adding insult to injury.

It was considered a disappointment? If anything more on the Codex, right in line with other games like Baldur's Gate and Witcher 2.
If it'd had been a disappointment there wouldn't have been Bioshock 2 trying to cash in on the first and now Bioshock: Infinite being labeled that.

 

[Infinitron]

I definitely agree, but I don't think it's the main reason why Bioshock was considered a disappointment. People were expecting a game with an RPG level of mechanical complexity and instead they got a shooter. The theme park atmosphere was just adding insult to injury.

It was considered a disappointment? If anything more on the Codex, right in line with other games like Baldur's Gate and Witcher 2.
If it'd had been a disappointment there wouldn't have been Bioshock 2 trying to cash in on the first and now Bioshock: Infinite being labeled that.

Obviously I meant that it was considered a disappointment among the monocled crowd. The general public slurped that shit up (although it did not in fact sell very well by today's standards)

 

[Dexter]

I definitely agree, but I don't think it's the main reason why Bioshock was considered a disappointment. People were expecting a game with an RPG level of mechanical complexity and instead they got a shooter. The theme park atmosphere was just adding insult to injury.

It was considered a disappointment? If anything more on the Codex, right in line with other games like Baldur's Gate and Witcher 2.
If it'd had been a disappointment there wouldn't have been Bioshock 2 trying to cash in on the first and now Bioshock: Infinite being labeled that.

Obviously I meant that it was considered a disappointment among the monocled crowd. The general public slurped that shit up (although it did not in fact sell very well by today's standards)

I'd just love it if people would keep things in perspective. Personally I have rather positive memories looking back on it, marred by a few faults.

The game came out before "Indie games" with fresh new ideas or retro-feel were "a thing" or rather popular (which they kinda became around 2008/2009 with World of Goo and Minecraft).

It was before there was any semblance of hope for anything like "KickStarter" and it was in the middle of a drought from games similar to Thief or Deus Ex for a few years, heck even Thief: Deadly Shadows was back in 2004 and Deus Ex: Invisible War in 2003.

There wasn't even Dishonored or Human Revolution or similar games with lots of potential to compare it with any time recently, and it came out along games like Soldier of Fortune: Payback, Medal of Honor: Airborne, Halo 3, Unreal Tournament 3, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, BlackSite: Area 51, TimeShift, Cilve Barker's Jericho and earlier in the year Shadowrun, The Darkness and GRAW 2 (it was kinda of the transition period between WW2 Shooters and MMS).

The only other Shooters worth mentioning that entire year were Crysis, STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl and The Orange Box, maybe Enemy Territory: Quake Wars

Both reviewers and players were largely gushing over it.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

I said that considering the term "spiritual sucessor" somewhat a subjective concept that I myself don't rely upon. Either you have a sequel, or you have a clone. There really is no such thing as a spiritual sucessor.

Game that is meant to evoke the same feeling, atmosphere and play more or less the same, despite not being an official sequel or set in the same continuity.

Which is basically how I felt playing SS2 and Deus Ex.

Deus Ex also had similar Thief stealth mechanics and incorporated similar gameplay of LGS games, like leaning, objects that can be dropped in one location and they would stay there if you go back to that area. It's funny also because SS2 uses the dark engine.

Except SS2 was generally pretty brightly lit and didn't really allow for non-psi stealth, so not really.

As Deus ex is also brightly lit, and Deus Ex stealth required that you choose skills that make him like garrett.

The inventory system is somewhat similar in SS2 and Deus Ex.

Also in Diablo.

And neverwinter nights. Deus Ex went on with a similar inventory system so it's familiar for anyone who played SS2. And it's not ONLY because of the inventory.

They only differ in the genre approach, Deus Ex being a government global conspiracy, and SS fllowing a sci-fi horror adventure. And in Deus Ex, you had alive NPCs.

Only.

They 'only' differed in elements that pretty much defined the whole experience.

Well, my experience in playing SS2 and Deus Ex were quite similar. the satisfaction of playing Deus Ex was on the same level when I played SS2. I didn't feel the same way while playing BS.

How very spiritual successor.

As I said, subjective.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'll be buying it for sure and I liked the original. Then again I have a much higher modern game tolerance level than 99% of the Codex.

 

[DraQ]

Which is basically how I felt playing SS2 and Deus Ex.

How is mostly linear horror involving space zombies, siren song of alien madness and conservation of dwindling resources in anyway similar, atmospherically or gameplay wise to a conspiracy themed game revolving around flexibility of problem solving and broadly defined interaction with whole lot of stuff including characters and the story itself?

In SS2 you always knew what to do and how, but the problem was lack of breather and managing scarce resources to succeed. You were also alone.

In DX 1 you always had to decide how you'd do something, often what to do and often without the options being spelled out to you, but resources were never particularly scarce. You also bumped into NPCs to interact with and had a lot of breather room available.

SS2 was tense, quite linear and much more closed form adventure, with little environmental interaction.

DX1, within its linear sequence of missions, was very open form and not very tense despite being atmospheric, it also featured a whole lot of environment interaction as possible means of problem solving.

As Deus ex is also brightly lit, and Deus Ex stealth required that you choose skills that make him like garrett.

You're clearly misremembering things.

From mission 1 Deus Ex had tons of pitch-black shadows and dark corners allowing for effective concealment even with unobstructed line of sight. There was even a lot of butthurt when DX:HR devs announced that light would be a non-factor in DX:HR stealth.

Stealth augs were unnecessary and there were no stealth skills aside from lockpicking and electronics, both of which could be used without putting points in them. Hacking required some points, but you could have it on adequate level from the beginning and there were always data cubes if you didn't.

And neverwinter nights. Deus Ex went on with a similar inventory system so it's familiar for anyone who played SS2. And it's not ONLY because of the inventory.

No, it's because good interface tends to be very intuitive.

Well, my experience in playing SS2 and Deus Ex were quite similar. the satisfaction of playing Deus Ex was on the same level when I played SS2. I didn't feel the same way while playing BS.

The satisfaction is function of excellence, not similarity.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

How is mostly linear horror involving space zombies, siren song of alien madness and conservation of dwindling resources in anyway similar, atmospherically or gameplay wise to a conspiracy themed game revolving around flexibility of problem solving and broadly defined interaction with whole lot of stuff including characters and the story itself?

In SS2 you always knew what to do and how, but the problem was lack of breather and managing scarce resources to succeed. You were also alone.

In DX 1 you always had to decide how you'd do something, often what to do and often without the options being spelled out to you, but resources were never particularly scarce. You also bumped into NPCs to interact with and had a lot of breather room available.

SS2 was tense, quite linear and much more closed form adventure, with little environmental interaction.

Yes, they're quite different games, but i think that if a person liked SS 2, I think they would like playing Deus ex. Aliens is a sequel to alien, and they're pretty different movies (though aliens really is in the same universe of alien), but it's how i feel about deus ex and SS 2. And BS would be prometheus.

DX1, within its linear sequence of missions, was very open form and not very tense despite being atmospheric, it also featured a whole lot of environment interaction as possible means of problem solving.

this atmosphere part... the "imershun"... though a despised term here, I think it's a word that could describe what one feel playing SS and Deus ex. and both nailed it.

You're clearly misremembering things.

From mission 1 Deus Ex had tons of pitch-black shadows and dark corners allowing for effective concealment even with unobstructed line of sight. There was even a lot of butthurt when DX:HR devs announced that light would be a non-factor in DX:HR stealth.

Stealth augs were unnecessary and there were no stealth skills aside from lockpicking and electronics, both of which could be used without putting points in them. Hacking required some points, but you could have it on adequate level from the beginning and there were always data cubes if you didn't.

By stealth, I'm refering to a thief kind of gameplay, that doesn't only consider the lighting, but abilities like neutralizing opponents without killing them. In deus ex you could "ghost", but to neutralize an opponent with a baton and walk undetected, you had to invest in melee to knock them. You could poison them from afar, but it was noisy and would alert everyone. but yes, you could stay in shadows undetected, something impossible in SS2.

And neverwinter nights. Deus Ex went on with a similar inventory system so it's familiar for anyone who played SS2. And it's not ONLY because of the inventory.

No, it's because good interface tends to be very intuitive.

like in BS...

The satisfaction is function of excellence, not similarity.

but my satisfaction was quite similar. I had satisfaction playing, for example GTA VC, and yet it was a diferent kind of satisfaction.

It's hard to explain, but one of the motives I played Deus Ex was because I loved SS2. And that was the motive I played BS, but I didn't feel it was an spiritual sucessor, mostly because it was a blatant copy. BS is not just similar to SS 2, but a copy, almost a disguised remake, and done worse. They even had ghosts of npcs reenacting the past... I agree with your justifications, but I believe the disagreement comes from what one defines "spiritual" in this case.

Deus ex took system shock 2 and presented a new original game in the same genre (not genre of story, but game genre), call it RPG, call it FPS with RPG elements, with a similar visual theme, and evolved it. I feel it kind of carries the spirit and shares the DNA of a looking glass game, of a lineage that started in Ultima Underworld. I can't feel bioshock being a member of this "family" line... It feels like a distant relative trying too hard to be accepted in the family.

BS was presented before release as THE spiritual sucessor of SS 2, and since it had an identical pace and story, I believe it's easier to say that it is the spiritual sucessor. But it doesn't feel legit. maybe a "corporeal sucessor".

 

[ManjuShri]

The first few minutes.