From Software Bloodborne. Discuss or die!

[Jinn]

I love Demon's Souls, but I do think it's viewed with rose-tinted glasses, particularly around here. I'm of the opinion that at the very least Dark Souls is the better game, with overall better gameplay, more varied play styles, builds, and equipment, more satisfying progression, more engaging exploration, more interesting structure, more foreboding atmosphere, more mythical setting and lore, and just more memorable moments all around.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

That said, any good set ups and mods i should know about? I'm gonna set it up now so i'm good to go for later.

• Download 60FPS patch from ShadPS4 emulator (right click on game, patches, make sure you use shadps4 repo) for proper frame pacing in game and in cutscenes.
• Vertex explosion fix
• Sound Crash Fix Workaround for ANY BUILD
• You could also download Stake of Marika if you want to eliminate the runback, but i didn't do it.
• Same goes for the visual upgrade mod
  

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

more mythical setting and lore

Couldn't agree with this more. I find both Dark Souls and Elden Ring a lot more graceful in terms of the overall mythic nature of their universes. Dark Souls literally begins by explaining it's creation myth and they're just a lot more richer in terms of depth and breadth. They're also a lot more cohesive.

 

[Lyric Suite]

All i can say about Demon Souls is that the game has the most unique soundtrack out of all of them.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

All i can say about Demon Souls is that the game has the most unique soundtrack out of all of them.

Demon's Souls has the single best track in the entire Souls series, One Who Craves Souls, that plays only if

Spoiler

the evil ending occurs, via the player murdering the Maiden in Black at the conclusion of the game rather than merely departing.

Also the best set of levels in Tower of Latria and is generally more tightly-focused and lacking any drops in quality, even relative to the first Dark Souls.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The separate worlds structure's made the whole thing really incohesive.

Which is part of the point
The world is literally breaking at the seams, the physical reality of space and time are eroding and every Kingdom touched by the Fog decays into unnatural horror

as far as I can tell, there is literally no explanation or lore behind the Armor Spider

Well not very far then
Like alot of animals in the game, the Armor Spider is a creature that became monstrous due to the consumption of Souls and properties of their enviroments (in this case the Stonefang Mines, which is the only place you can find Spiderstone)
Perhaps it was even a type of demon sentinel created by the Fat Ministers to guard the entrance to Tunnel City - as the fireball and flamethrower attack the spider uses are amped up versions of the spells the Ministers use (Flame Toss and Ignite)
It's good enough of an explanation - and honestly it's a worldbuilding mistake to try and explain every single thing in a fictional setting (especially when that setting is all about the memories of the world fading away)

Or the fat bastards outfits, especially their tophats makes no aesthetic sense.

It makes plenty of sense - they look vain, corrupt and sadistic
And the top hat is the cherry on top that makes the design overall more memorable and cool

Characters are almost named randomly

The characters names are not any wierder than any of the other Souls games
It neatly fits their settings imo
And really what ridicoulous, pedantic complaint

I particularly disliked that one character is called Mephisopheles. It's really random and immuhrsion break,

Wtf
What a random nitpick

considering that's a character out of IRL Christian lore.

German folklore actually
The legend of Faust

As for atmosphere, I don't think it's bad, but coming from heavy-hitters like Elden Ring and Bloodborne doesn't do it any favors,

Yeah, it doesn't do any favors to ER and BB... because in terms of atmosphere DeS nearly curbstomps those games

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

The separate worlds structure's made the whole thing really incohesive.

Which is part of the point
The world is literally breaking at the seams, the physical reality of space and time are eroding and every Kingdom touched by the Fog decays into unnatural horror

as far as I can tell, there is literally no explanation or lore behind the Armor Spider

Well not very far then
Like alot of animals in the game, the Armor Spider is a creature that became monstrous due to the consumption of Souls and properties of their enviroments (in this case the Stonefang Mines, which is the only place you can find Spiderstone)
Perhaps it was even a type of demon sentinel created by the Fat Ministers to guard the entrance to Tunnel City - as the fireball and flamethrower attack the spider uses are amped up versions of the spells the Ministers use (Flame Toss and Ignite)
It's good enough of an explanation - and honestly it's a worldbuilding mistake to try and explain every single thing in a fictional setting (especially when that setting is all about the memories of the world fading away)

Or the fat bastards outfits, especially their tophats makes no aesthetic sense.

It makes plenty of sense - they look vain, corrupt and sadistic
And the top hat is the cherry on top that makes the design overall more memorable and cool

Characters are almost named randomly

The characters names are not any wierder than any of the other Souls games
It neatly fits their settings imo
And really what ridicoulous, pedantic complaint

I particularly disliked that one character is called Mephisopheles. It's really random and immuhrsion break,

Wtf
What a random nitpick

considering that's a character out of IRL Christian lore.

German folklore actually
The legend of Faust

As for atmosphere, I don't think it's bad, but coming from heavy-hitters like Elden Ring and Bloodborne doesn't do it any favors,

Yeah, it doesn't do any favors to ER and BB... because in terms of atmosphere DeS nearly curbstomps those games

Mate next time instead of wasting your time with passive aggressive "counter arguments", just share this video:

 

[Machocruz]

What I like about DeS is the consistent tone of desolation and decay. This sets it apart from following Souls games which were more high fantasy and, yes, more mythical. DaS is the better as far as combat, inventory, and satisfying world structure. 2 and 3 didn't get right what those two games did, although they are good in their own right. Haven't played ER yet, but DeS also looks more thematically consistent than it, and the lore Ive seen recited just seems like everything I hate about most fantasy writing.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Elden Ring breaks the mold a bit because you are in a sort of divine realm. Not an issue the game as a right to be different, not everything has to be literally dark to be grim.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

the evil ending occurs, via the player murdering the Maiden in Black at the conclusion of the game rather than merely departing. Also the best set of levels in Tower of Latria and is generally more tightly-focused and lacking any drops in quality, even relative to the first Dark Souls.

The level design in DeS is truly stellar. I really like Bloodborne's inter-connectivity, but DeS's individual levels are amazingly winding and twisting.

Honestly now that I have a better understanding of DeS's metaphysics (thanks to that epistemological analysis video), I appreciate the game a lot more. I still don't like the juxtaposition of wildly different aesthetics and the graceless nomenclature, but overall my opinion has improved significantly.

 

[Sibelius]

the evil ending occurs, via the player murdering the Maiden in Black at the conclusion of the game rather than merely departing. Also the best set of levels in Tower of Latria and is generally more tightly-focused and lacking any drops in quality, even relative to the first Dark Souls.

the graceless nomenclature

Gracelss? As I inderstand it, Miyazaki takes names very seriously.

'Hidetaka Miyazaki reveals it’s a part of game design he is very fond of, calling himself a “naming nerd.” He says he gets suggestions from his colleagues at FromSoftware as well as Frognation, the company handling the English versions of the games. At the end of the day, the decision for the name falls on Miyazaki, who describes it as “an incredibly important part of any world you want to depict.” He considers many aspects when coming up with names, such as the origin of the word, its phonetics, and even regional considerations. Whether it’s Bloodborne, Sekiro, or Elden Ring, the names of items, locations, and people all add to further fleshing out an already intricate world. The names are also directly related to the character or location, offering context and history through the title alone. Many fans have also expressed their love for the names in the FromSoftware games. Weaving etymology into the lore of a fictional world in a way that the discerning player can glean story elements from the title alone is a remarkable feat of creativity.'

https://fandomwire.com/hidetaka-miyazaki-admits-failings-core-aspect/

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

Miyazaki takes names very seriously

Exactly. I am fully aware of this. I just think it's poorly executed in the case of DeS. He almost never falters in any game afterwards.

Many fans have also expressed their love for the names in the FromSoftware games.

I am definitely in this camp.

The user a few posts above who tried to refute my point about names was calling it a nit-pick, but it's really not the case. I just think random names such as "armor spider", "dirty colossus", "tower knight", etc. are really generic. And also, there is no cohesion between the names of people, and often they don't sound very graceful. To me names like Yurt, Yuria (which sounds like Urea), Mephistopheles, Ed, or Thomas neither sound good nor do they sound as if they belong in a bespoke, unique fantasy world.

I mean you contrast that with Solaire, Artorias, Seath, Miquella, Ranni, Marika, Radahn, Gwyn, etc. and you get the idea.

 

[Odoryuk]

That said, any good set ups and mods i should know about? I'm gonna set it up now so i'm good to go for later.

https://www.nexusmods.com/demonssouls/mods/8
The only mod you will ever need

 

[Odoryuk]

There's a bunch of stuff like that. Characters are almost named randomly. I particularly disliked that one character is called Mephisopheles. It's really random and immuhrsion break, considering that's a character out of IRL Christian lore.

One of the minor NPCs even mentions Virgin Mary (which is apparently only in English script, but we all know how intertwined English and Japanese writing in Miyazaki's games). Miyazaki's unique writing style started in Demon's Souls, and it is very rough, but it was already shaped into what will come after, but slightly more refined. It's a unique and rough game in most aspects, but its presentation is what makes it still stand on its own, raw writing and gameplay mechanics aside.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

its presentation is what makes it still stand on its own

For me the most unique and noteworthy thing about it is the metaphysics of the world. Some pages back I said something like "the lore is just dark souls but worse" and that really can't be further from the truth. There's a lot of mysticism going on that's completely the opposite of Dark Souls, for instance.

 

[SayMyName]

There's a bunch of stuff like that. Characters are almost named randomly. I particularly disliked that one character is called Mephisopheles. It's really random and immuhrsion break, considering that's a character out of IRL Christian lore.

One of the minor NPCs even mentions Virgin Mary (which is apparently only in English script, but we all know how intertwined English and Japanese writing in Miyazaki's games). Miyazaki's unique writing style started in Demon's Souls, and it is very rough, but it was already shaped into what will come after, but slightly more refined. It's a unique and rough game in most aspects, but its presentation is what makes it still stand on its own, raw writing and gameplay mechanics aside.

Christian lore is very intertwined in Miyazaki games in general.
The name Marika is a mix of Mary and Boudicca, and she makes children through immaculate conception while being heavily featured in iconography as Mother.
Same for Rosaria, named after Christian rosary and venerated for her Rebirth in a Church blessed with holy water

 

[Odoryuk]

Christian lore is very intertwined in Miyazaki games in general.

I kinda really doubt this.

and she makes children through immaculate conception

Then why they needed a husband and a wife to create children?..

 

[SayMyName]

Christian lore is very intertwined in Miyazaki games in general.

I kinda really doubt this.

Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are full of Christian lore.
The healing Church of course and Blood Ministrations that represent the Christian Eucharist where wine representing Jesus blood is given to the faithful.
The Founder of the Healing Church poses in a statue like Jesus Christ in Michelangelo's Pieta

The Deacons of the Deep boss arena has a 1:1 match to the Holy Sepulchre, with the Deacons except one Archdeacon betraying Rosaria's cult after Aldrich's resurrection and covering her statues.
Aldrich is likened to Jesus, with the Church of the Deep using baptism and the water now corrupted into mud.
Rosaria, Goddess of Rebirth is likened to Mary Magdalene, Jesus' companion, that is very much associated with rosaries, like Rosaria's Fingers emblem.
When Aldrich died Rosaria became the lead of the Deacons, but at his resurrection Aldrich was angered by her worship which is why he defiled her purity (literally) and tainted her with Dark that allows her to modify Souls together with Light in her soul. He also cut off her tongue which is what Firekeepers traditionally suffered in Lordran from the Way of the White and had her statues covered in black veils, including those watching over the sepulchre. Only one Archdeacon remained faithful to Rosaria.

The path to the Haligtree has 7 oracle envoys, the 7 envoys that preannounce the armageddon in the Bible, with the 7th trumpet breaking the 7th seal before the 2nd coming of Christ that will bring salvation.
Marika is both Queen and Mother and established birth through spirit as Immaculate Conception by bestowing grace. Hoarah Loux taking the sap is especially indicative of the baptism of many pagan warlords that decided to settle after conquest and legitimize themselves to a conquered Roman Empire population through acceptance of Christianity. Leyndell has many callbacks to the Byzantine Empire, like the perfumers.

and she makes children through immaculate conception

Then why they needed a husband and a wife to create children?..

Because new births are generated through people's runes, but they are immaculate conception sprouting from the Erdtree. The act of blessing someone with grace is in itself baptism, except instead of holy water it is Erdtree sap that is used.
Marika in fact generated children on her own, and those children are Empyreans due to being generated from a single Goddess, again Divine Conception.

 

[Odoryuk]

Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are full of Christian lore.
The healing Church of course and Blood Ministrations that represent the Christian Eucharist where wine representing Jesus blood is given to the faithful.

The Deacons of the Deep boss arena has a 1:1 match to the Holy Sepulchre, with the Deacons except one Archdeacon betraying Rosaria's cult after Aldrich's resurrection and covering her statues.
Aldrich is likened to Jesus, with the Church of the Deep using baptism and the water now corrupted into mud.
Rosaria, Goddess of Rebirth is likened to Mary Magdalene, Jesus' companion, that is very much associated with rosaries, like Rosaria's Fingers emblem.
When Aldrich died Rosaria became the lead of the Deacons, but at his resurrection Aldrich was angered by her worship which is he defiled her purity (literally) and tainted her with Dark that allows her to modify Souls together with Light in her soul. He also cut off her tongue which is what Firekeepers traditionally suffered in Lordran from the Way of the White and had her statues covered in black veils, including those watching over the sepulchre. Only one Archdeacon remained faithful to Rosaria.

The path to the Haligtree has 7 oracle envoys, the 7 envoys that preannounce the armageddon in the Bible, with the 7th trumpet breaking the 7th seal before the 2nd coming of Christ that will bring salvation.
Marika is both Queen and Mother and established birth through spirit as Immaculate Conception by bestowing grace. Hoarah Loux taking the sap is especially indicative of the baptism of many pagan warlords that decided to settle after conquest and legitimize themselves to a conquered Roman Empire population through acceptance of Christianity. Leyndell has many callbacks to the Byzantine Empire, like the perfumers.

You got me there, I forgot how much Catholicism imagery is in Dark Souls 3, I even remember now noticing it and getting hyped for Blasphemous because of it.

Because new births are generated through people's runes, but they are immaculate conception sprouting from the Erdtree. The act of blessing someone with grace is in itself baptism, except instead of holy water it is Erdtree sap that is used.
Marika in fact generated children on her own, and those children are Empyreans due to being generated from a single Goddess, again Divine Conception.

You know, now I see it. None of Rennala's children look like her, they look like Radagon. And Godfrey's children don't look like him, they look like Marika (talking about hair colour here)

 

[SayMyName]

Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are full of Christian lore.
The healing Church of course and Blood Ministrations that represent the Christian Eucharist where wine representing Jesus blood is given to the faithful.

The Deacons of the Deep boss arena has a 1:1 match to the Holy Sepulchre, with the Deacons except one Archdeacon betraying Rosaria's cult after Aldrich's resurrection and covering her statues.
Aldrich is likened to Jesus, with the Church of the Deep using baptism and the water now corrupted into mud.
Rosaria, Goddess of Rebirth is likened to Mary Magdalene, Jesus' companion, that is very much associated with rosaries, like Rosaria's Fingers emblem.
When Aldrich died Rosaria became the lead of the Deacons, but at his resurrection Aldrich was angered by her worship which is he defiled her purity (literally) and tainted her with Dark that allows her to modify Souls together with Light in her soul. He also cut off her tongue which is what Firekeepers traditionally suffered in Lordran from the Way of the White and had her statues covered in black veils, including those watching over the sepulchre. Only one Archdeacon remained faithful to Rosaria.

The path to the Haligtree has 7 oracle envoys, the 7 envoys that preannounce the armageddon in the Bible, with the 7th trumpet breaking the 7th seal before the 2nd coming of Christ that will bring salvation.
Marika is both Queen and Mother and established birth through spirit as Immaculate Conception by bestowing grace. Hoarah Loux taking the sap is especially indicative of the baptism of many pagan warlords that decided to settle after conquest and legitimize themselves to a conquered Roman Empire population through acceptance of Christianity. Leyndell has many callbacks to the Byzantine Empire, like the perfumers.

You got me there, I forgot how much Catholicism imagery is in Dark Souls 3, I even remember now noticing it and getting hyped for Blasphemous because of it.

Because new births are generated through people's runes, but they are immaculate conception sprouting from the Erdtree. The act of blessing someone with grace is in itself baptism, except instead of holy water it is Erdtree sap that is used.
Marika in fact generated children on her own, and those children are Empyreans due to being generated from a single Goddess, again Divine Conception.

You know, now I see it. None of Rennala's children look like her, they look like Radagon. And Godfrey's children don't look like him, they look like Marika (talking about hair colour here)

Demigods are each and all direct offsprings of Marika

As Rya explains
Lady Tanith is my mother. I am told I was born by the grace of a glorious king.
That my mother cherishes this form I inhabit. I am proud of what I am.
But people are cruel. If they saw my true form, the wouldn't speak to me.

It's grace that gives birth to people, and those who aren't born from grace and sprouted from the Erdtree are misbegotten, hunted by Omenkillers and fanatics of the Golden Order because they exist without the cycle of births established by Marika.
All Demigods are born by Marika's grace, and to Marika they exist as nothing but future sacrifices like Godwyn was meant to be

The very concept of family in the Age of the Erdtree is completely different and means comrades for most commonfolks and warriors. Family relationships are very dehumanized and exist only to enforce social status (like Godrick and his scions and Rykard and his FAMELEEEE) for all but individuals with a cultural background predating the Age of the Erdtree (like Godfrey who actually mourns his son).