Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview Brian Fargo talks about the Wasteland 2 beta at Eurogamer

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
98,052
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver

Why is there an expectation that an unfinished game should "deliver"? Deliver what?

Zergalpha.jpg
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,287
Location
Terra da Garoa
So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver

Why is there an expectation that an unfinished game should "deliver"? Deliver what?

Zergalpha.jpg
First, that's an early alpha, that was never released to the public. Second, if the game plays like a good RTS, even with fugly graphics, it's already delivering. Third, it took 3 years from that alpha build to the Starcraft release... Fargo just gave himself has 3 months.

And Again, see D:OS ALPHA vs. W2 "BETA":

D:OS is unpolished and buggy, but that has the core design and gameplay done right; it's a great game, faithful to what was promised, just in a unfinished state.

W2 is a more advanced stage, but core stuff like the combat, exploration and C&C is being made as they go; ATM it's a mediocre cookie-cutter RPG, that Fargo is promising to somehow turn into something more detailed, subtle and replayable than even Fallout and Planescape.
 

ricolikesrice

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,231
i do hope wasteland 2 turns out well but i m also incredibly worried we re in for another "The Fall - Last days of Gaya".

From what i ve READ (mind you i havent played it) about the beta some quest & world design sounds retarded enough to be straight ouf The Fall - and Brian Fargo sounds like Carsten Strehse back then on NMA. it was 10 years ago, wasnt it ?

cant wait for the title theme song... WASTE WASTE WASTE ITS A WASTE - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASTELAAAAAAAAAAAAAND BY FAAAAAAAAAAAAARGO - i ll never get that out of my head :(
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
98,052
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
First, that's an early alpha, that was never released to the public.

No shit it wasn't released to the public. It also wasn't funded on Kickstarter and wasn't on Steam Early Access, which didn't exist back then.

Gaming. Gaming has changed.

Second, if the game plays like a good RTS, even with fugly graphics, it's already delivering.

...but, imagine if it WAS on Kickstarter and Steam Early Access. How would people have reacted to it on "RTSCodex"? Would they have said it's "already delivering"? No, they would have gone fucking crazy.

And Again, see D:OS ALPHA vs. W2 "BETA":

D:OS is unpolished and buggy, but that has the core design and gameplay done right; it's a great game, faithful to what was promised, just in a unfinished state.

W2 is a more advanced stage, but core stuff like the combat, exploration and C&C is being made as they go; ATM it's a mediocre cookie-cutter RPG

That's just your opinion, man

that Fargo is promising to somehow turn into something more detailed, subtle and replayable than even Fallout and Planescape.

Talk to you on Monday!
 
Last edited:

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
I think it's best if we drop any connotations to "Alpha", "Beta" or any name for an early build and just focus on what was promised and what has been delivered. This game could be in permanent beta for all we know.

Oh and this:
"This is your chance to influence the kind of game you want to see. With fan funding, you drive the direction of game design and development. If it is important to you, it is important to us."
Where's the blood and gore?! It's important to me! Heads exploding like blood sausage my ass :<
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Starcraft early alpha... please inxile hire me too

So, what exactly is your point? That it can be done? That early builds can be very different? What? With an example that took 3 years from that stage to the final one?
Yes, it can be done. The question is if inXile can do it.

By the way, wasn't this beta supposed to be "feature complete"? Now it's feature complete in 3 more months? And then what? The real beta?
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
20,856
Location
Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Commissar Brofists a Jew here wait with whinining after game will be completed; Demo-ed very early Beta (from early December) to see what all this commotion is and it is... guess what? Very early Betish expierence; Fargo should not promis complete game on September of 2013 this kind of game done on new engine needs 3 years to be completed. But still from what Commissar has seen (intro, character building and first mission) the game has potential. Also the biggest fan boys exhibit biggest :butthurt:; this is game done using penut budget for KWA chill down a bit.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
I think in the end criticasters and fans alike agree on a number of points, which agrees with our viewpoints as well; the game has the potential to be very good/great, but it is not yet delivering what we promised or want it to be. The disagreement seems to be on whether or not you believe inXile can do it (in the timeframe given). That's fine, we either will or we won't, and whether or not you believe we can criticism and feedback is still welcome. Seems to be a lot of posts and energy to waste discussing the periphery/"meta" of the project rather than the game itself, but that's ok I guess.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,017
I would wait to worry when instead of a beta there will be a release candidate
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,594
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
Decado Stop being an apologetic fanboy and judge the game by its own merits, anything fargo says is just words in the wind so you should treat them as such.

Well, I guess I don't know what makes a fanboy then. I mean, I don't even really know how it is possible to be a "fanboy" of Fargo at this point since the last game of his that I played was Stonekeep (or FO, if you count that as his). I don't really know him from Adam.

Most of my comments on the game have been about the process, because honestly that part is the most interesting for me (at this point). I think the fact that they have basically materialized this game out of thin air is pretty cool. This whole process is changing the way games are made, which is exciting to see from an industry standpoint.

So I will admit to sometimes losing the forest for the trees, here. But I will also admit to enjoy fucking with bros who grognard for the sake of grognarding.

I honestly didnt think the game was that bad, a bit banal and boring yes (only real turd was map design, and the railroading in a supposed open world was kinda disgusting), but wasnt expecting much a lot more from an early version, but these guys were, they were expecting a lot more, and those expectations were not met, so now the criticism rains down because they want to make sure their investment pays off. A lot of them have put down very generous amount of money, they have invested a lot of time and energy in this.

I have no sympathy for people who paid money to be part of a beta. It is easily the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in the context of crowdfunded gaming. It is insane, and I can't believe any company would do it, and that includes inXile and Obsidian. I hope it goes away soon, because it strikes me as slightly predatory.

Regarding the other part -- people investing a shitload of money into the game -- that is probably the most glaring weakness with the crowdfunded model: the person who pays more expects to have a bigger share of influence in how the game turns out. The problem is, that is basically the situation these companies were in when they were playing with the old publisher model. The people who paid the bills felt entitled to a larger share of input, and we all know how that worked out. The reality is, Fargo et al. have a much bigger fish to fry than pleasing the bros on the Codex. That's just the economics of it. I can recognize that while also being sympathetic to the people who feel like they aren't getting what they paid for. Unless the person is a moron like Hiver, in which case I hope he is sad and cries into his neckbeard. Because that would be funny. :lol:

In the end the codex dont care about words or hype or shit like that, not at this stage anyway. You know all of this, you must know it better than me, and if you do, then why the fuck are you even arguing with them over it? Especially with hiver, jesus fucking christ.

Accept my sincere apologies for arguing with hiver.
 
Last edited:

hiver

Guest
The disagreement seems to be on whether or not you believe inXile can do it (in the timeframe given).

Not when it comes to me. (few people mentioned three months seems like a short time but those are just considerations about usual scopes of production in game dev, generally speaking)
As far as im concerned you will or you wont.

Im not talking about some future versions of the game

Believing or not is something nonsensical to argue about.

But thats what these dumbasses keep throwing in, as if thats the issue. Strawmans.
It turns the situation into one where only the righteous believers are right and those that dont believe are... what?
Is this some religious dispute?

(btw, isnt this the exact process how stupid, violent fanaticism comes to be created? can we call some sociologists in so atleats they came use it to make some kind of theory or thesis on these retarded human mental problems and behaviour?)


Decado

you are just a small stupid shitfaced idiot.
You are a defunct retard who only spouts strawman arguments and blatant lies, pretending its somehow true - that you fail to support by anything. Just another dumb little sub human turd.

the person who pays more expects to have a bigger share of influence in how the game turns out.
Telepathical knowledge - again?

Your spinning in your stupidity like a popsicle.

Accept my sincere apologies for arguing with hiver.
Why? Because you are so stupid that you couldnt provide a single fact over two pages, instead just repeating various strawman stupid shit you invented?

Do you think you are just going to skip over it all and now - again - just pretend you have some high moral ground?

:lol:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hiver

Guest
You are continuing. You are not capable of anything else. Ive given you repeated chances to do otherwise.
All we got is laughable stupid shit of a moron spinning in his idiocy loop.


Still not a single fact to support any single statement you made, including these last ones about "people who think - whatever makes you look smart".
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
98,052
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
With every new post, hiver increases his chances of becoming a bizarre random encounter easter egg in Wasteland 2.

theunwashedvillagershuntingaspammer.jpg
 

Awakened_Yeti

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Messages
147
i kickstarted it but dont have beta access.. so havent played it yet, dont really want to until its finished anyways

but my biggest problem with how it may turn out is because i still remember when Fargo rebooted bards tale, and it was fucking HORRIBLE

so i was worried this reboot might be the same
 

hiver

Guest
You are already guarantied to get a role of some robot paranoid stupidoid, in my mod, infy. Youre going to go around accusing the player of most idiotic things, completely disregarding any dialogue choices and constantly spam commercials from the past video games. (found and assembled after you bring all those rare computer parts to that NPC in RN) and The only way to shut you up will be to use brute force to "brofist" you enough times and the usual hand to hand combat strikes and punches

Which will stop the spamming and inanity only for a short time, while every reload or restart will revert all of it to the start.
Gonna make a companion out of you. Maybe even with lowest Int special dialogue, if i get enough strength of will to waste time on that.

And you will constantly shoot players in the back, although you will be only able to carry the crappiest weapons.... hmm... maybe youl spam commercials like the disco bot but it would affect your team too and they would have special attacks that trigger to attack you too, with fists, just like NPC allies react alone sometimes.

(if only you guys had enough brains to ask for a small secret Vault, where the experiment was to have all Vault dwellers be idiots and assholes...with paintball guns as only weapons - and then the paint runs out)
:lol:

I think you mean spinning on his idiocy popsicle.
It can be in, as in inside of stupidity - spinning like a popsicle inside of a mouth, thats firmly clasped around it.

And it can be on.The actual meaning is the same. (not that it really matters much, it was just a throwaway smirk, on a side)


.. oh, yeah. my previous comment on the publishers and red boots was... a bit assholish. i know...
 

Dokkalfar

Drog-kun~
Village Idiot
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
92
And Again, see D:OS ALPHA vs. W2 "BETA":

D:OS is unpolished and buggy, but that has the core design and gameplay done right; it's a great game, faithful to what was promised, just in a unfinished state.
Did D:OS's core design promise a horrible hypercolored cartoony art-style that looks like it was ripped from an Asian MMORPG? Because that's the thing they seem to have really nailed.
W2 is a more advanced stage, but core stuff like the combat, exploration and C&C is being made as they go;
Except that it's not, all that stuff is already in the beta, there's good exploration, there's C&C involving saving HP/AC, and how you solve or not-solve the Rail Nomads/Golden Spike dispute. As for combat, they are adding a crouched stance, which isn't "The Combat" it's just a feature they decidedly to add during beta, which is completely normal thing to do, and all it requires is that it's balanced so the costs of going crouched in combat are weighed against whatever bonus it gives you. As for improving the AI so enemies can run up ladders and take firing positions during combat etc, which was already going to be part of WL2 combat - they're just tweaking which is what beta is for.

ATM it's a mediocre cookie-cutter RPG,
Yeah nah, get back to circle-jerking Obsidian with the rest of Codex, this comment sounds like you want ~innovation~. WL2 is supposed to be derivative, and there's nothing wrong with that. Traditional CRPG gamers backed it for a familiar experience, so they wouldn't be surprised, but wanted to get back to mechanics and gameplay from older RPG's. Who cares if lots of WL2's mechanics are derivative, like the AP mechanic, attribute system, and so on. Sounds to me like you're living in fairy land, you want some impossible "perfect" RPG.
that Fargo is promising to somehow turn into something more detailed, subtle and replayable than even Fallout and Planescape.
I honestly couldn't care less for C&C really, it's just more "Storyfaggotry" as the Codex terms it. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I want lots of big dungeons with their own unique graphic assets and look, unique enemies with their own unique attacks that make them challenging, I want all skills to be useful, and of course I want the weird, creepy and whacky feel of Wasteland. I'm not interested in CYOA bullshit. I want to kill things, get bigger guns, loot, and level up.
 
Last edited:

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,287
Location
Terra da Garoa
Did D:OS's core design promise a horrible hypercolored cartoony art-style that looks like it was ripped from an Asian MMORPG? Because that's the thing they seem to have really nailed.
The art style is exactly the same they have been since the kickstarter began, so its exactly what they promised, whatever you like it or not. Also, try a real argument next time, instead of just being a edgy retard.

Except that it's not, all that stuff is already in the beta, there's good exploration, there's C&C involving saving HP/AC, and how you solve or not-solve the Rail Nomads/Golden Spike dispute. As for combat, they are adding a crouched stance, which isn't "The Combat" it's just a feature they decidedly to add during beta, which is completely normal thing to do, and all it requires is that it's balanced so the costs of going crouched in combat are weighed against whatever bonus it gives you. As for improving the AI so enemies can run up ladders and take firing positions during combat etc, which was already going to be part of WL2 combat - they're just tweaking which is what beta is for.
Just tweaking? The current combat is turn-based popamole, people in cover taking shots at other people in cover. Now suddenly they are adding stances and thinking about aimed shots... do you have any idea of how big a change it's to add something like aimed shots at this point? Adding new UI elements, reworking the AI, and rethinking the entire balance of the game! How lazy and shallow must have been their pre-production for them to only now start to focus on making the mechanics actually interesting... Same thing the C&C; they wrote the bare minimum, and now the beta testers are giving all the ideas and suggestions they couldn't come up for themselves.

Yeah nah, get back to circle-jerking Obsidian with the rest of Codex, this comment sounds like you want ~innovation~. WL2 is supposed to be derivative, and there's nothing wrong with that. Traditional CRPG gamers backed it for a familiar experience, so they wouldn't be surprised, but wanted to get back to mechanics and gameplay from older RPG's. Who cares if lots of WL2's mechanics are derivative, like the AP mechanic, attribute system, and so on. Sounds to me like you're living in fairy land, you want some impossible "perfect" RPG.
Yeah, how dare I expect fucking Brian Fargo and Chris Avellone, without any publisher to hold them back, to produce anything great? Nah, they'll just take systems that have been done way better before, make a mediocre copy of them, paste it all together and call it a day. And all the fanboys like you will rejoice on how awesome they are... because it's totally impossible to make a great RPG.

I honestly couldn't care less for C&C really, it's just more "Storyfaggotry" as the Codex terms it. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I want lots of big dungeons with their own unique graphic assets and look, unique enemies with their own unique attacks that make them challenging, I want all skills to be useful, and of course I want the weird, creepy and whacky feel of Wasteland. I'm not interested in CYOA bullshit. I want to kill things, get bigger guns, loot, and level up.
Fargo promised and keeps promising a game that is more replayable than any of his old games, focused on reactivity and all that. He has to deliver what he promises; what you want or care matter absolutely nothing here. Go play Borderlands.
 

Dokkalfar

Drog-kun~
Village Idiot
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
92
The art style is exactly the same they have been since the kickstarter began, so its exactly what they promised, whatever you like it or not. Also, try a real argument next time, instead of just being a edgy retard.
So? It's still pure shit artistic direction. WL2, both it's 2D and 3D elements, is beautiful.

Just tweaking? The current combat is turn-based popamole, people in cover taking shots at other people in cover.
"Describes many third-person console shooters where the gameplay is all about sitting behind some brick and shooting heads of enemies popping out from behind other bricks - one of the ways to cover up the inability to dodge and do precise shots fast with a gamepad. Very similar to pop-a-mole or a whack-a-mole game hence the term.
First appeared in Kill-Switch and was copied in many games since then."

"Wow shooting people in Mass Effect, Gears of War and GTA4 feels like popamole"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=popamole

Yeah, no. The cover hits a penalty to-hit for ranged attackers, and thus improves tactical options.

Now suddenly they are adding stances and thinking about aimed shots... do you have any idea of how big a change it's to add something like aimed shots at this point?
Stances aren't a big deal, they just need to make sure the AI has the right scripts to use it right, and also that the "standing" stance is balanced against crouched, so both have advantages and distadvantages, and being crouched at all times isn't a no-brainer like Jagged Alliance 2.

But really, if you want to blame anyone for WL2 having more combat options, it's the backers, who complained that the combat isn't complex enough. Inxile probably considered that the fans wouldn't complain because Wasteland itself didn't have very tactical combat, it didn't have stances or cover or aimed shots, it was a game of interaction primarily even though the random encounter rate was high in line with most RPG's of that era.

If you can't see that combat is being made more complex by fan input, you're deluded, and that's why the game has been pushed back. Fargo just evaluated (probably from center code suggestions and general forum chatter) that the majority of backers wanted more tactical options in combat.

In Wasteland 1 you could still split your party for combat and different characters could have different positions in combat, though the limitations of the old engine made it very hard to control. Wasteland 2's initial combat in the beta wasn't too different from that, just with better interface.

Adding new UI elements, reworking the AI, and rethinking the entire balance of the game!
Sounds completely normal for a beta to me.
How lazy and shallow must have been their pre-production for them to only now start to focus on making the mechanics actually interesting...
Things change when you have thousands of people playing/testing your product. Pre-production things mostly "on paper" or with primitive prototypes are never going to survive completely intact when faced with how the software actually really functions when real people are using it. Something can be good on paper, but end up less than great in real implementation in the game.

Same thing the C&C; they wrote the bare minimum, and now the beta testers are giving all the ideas and suggestions they couldn't come up for themselves.
Not really

Yeah, how dare I expect fucking Brian Fargo and Chris Avellone, without any publisher to hold them back, to produce anything great? Nah, they'll just take systems that have been done way better before, make a mediocre copy of them, paste it all together and call it a day. And all the fanboys like you will rejoice on how awesome they are... because it's totally impossible to make a great RPG.
You immediately associate a "great RPG" with coming up with all these ~innovative~ or whatever new systems, which is false. You should see the WL2 forums, backers are already not happy because of how far WL2 has gone from the original WL mechanics. Again, I think you're in a very small minority here, most backers want original or unique RPG mechanics, they want familiarity, they want to see those old CRPG mechanics and just have them copypasted. Which I think is fine too, this isn't supposed to be a game about innovation or originality or whatever, and really who gives a shit, we want nostalgia.

Fargo promised and keeps promising a game that is more replayable than any of his old games, focused on reactivity and all that. He has to deliver what he promises; what you want or care matter absolutely nothing here. Go play Borderlands.
And have you played the complete WL2 game? If not then STFU. If you put Wasteland and Fallout together and make a game, I'm not exactly sure what you get but it's sure gonna have unavoidable combat dungeons out the ass.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom