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So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver
Why is there an expectation that an unfinished game should "deliver"? Deliver what?
So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver
What is that game? It looks awesome.
First, that's an early alpha, that was never released to the public. Second, if the game plays like a good RTS, even with fugly graphics, it's already delivering. Third, it took 3 years from that alpha build to the Starcraft release... Fargo just gave himself has 3 months.So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver
Why is there an expectation that an unfinished game should "deliver"? Deliver what?
First, that's an early alpha, that was never released to the public.
Second, if the game plays like a good RTS, even with fugly graphics, it's already delivering.
And Again, see D:OS ALPHA vs. W2 "BETA":
D:OS is unpolished and buggy, but that has the core design and gameplay done right; it's a great game, faithful to what was promised, just in a unfinished state.
W2 is a more advanced stage, but core stuff like the combat, exploration and C&C is being made as they go; ATM it's a mediocre cookie-cutter RPG
that Fargo is promising to somehow turn into something more detailed, subtle and replayable than even Fallout and Planescape.
Starcraft early alpha... please inxile hire me too
Decado Stop being an apologetic fanboy and judge the game by its own merits, anything fargo says is just words in the wind so you should treat them as such.
I honestly didnt think the game was that bad, a bit banal and boring yes (only real turd was map design, and the railroading in a supposed open world was kinda disgusting), but wasnt expecting much a lot more from an early version, but these guys were, they were expecting a lot more, and those expectations were not met, so now the criticism rains down because they want to make sure their investment pays off. A lot of them have put down very generous amount of money, they have invested a lot of time and energy in this.
In the end the codex dont care about words or hype or shit like that, not at this stage anyway. You know all of this, you must know it better than me, and if you do, then why the fuck are you even arguing with them over it? Especially with hiver, jesus fucking christ.
The disagreement seems to be on whether or not you believe inXile can do it (in the timeframe given).
Telepathical knowledge - again?the person who pays more expects to have a bigger share of influence in how the game turns out.
Why? Because you are so stupid that you couldnt provide a single fact over two pages, instead just repeating various strawman stupid shit you invented?Accept my sincere apologies for arguing with hiver.
It can be in, as in inside of stupidity - spinning like a popsicle inside of a mouth, thats firmly clasped around it.I think you mean spinning on his idiocy popsicle.
Did D:OS's core design promise a horrible hypercolored cartoony art-style that looks like it was ripped from an Asian MMORPG? Because that's the thing they seem to have really nailed.And Again, see D:OS ALPHA vs. W2 "BETA":
D:OS is unpolished and buggy, but that has the core design and gameplay done right; it's a great game, faithful to what was promised, just in a unfinished state.
Except that it's not, all that stuff is already in the beta, there's good exploration, there's C&C involving saving HP/AC, and how you solve or not-solve the Rail Nomads/Golden Spike dispute. As for combat, they are adding a crouched stance, which isn't "The Combat" it's just a feature they decidedly to add during beta, which is completely normal thing to do, and all it requires is that it's balanced so the costs of going crouched in combat are weighed against whatever bonus it gives you. As for improving the AI so enemies can run up ladders and take firing positions during combat etc, which was already going to be part of WL2 combat - they're just tweaking which is what beta is for.W2 is a more advanced stage, but core stuff like the combat, exploration and C&C is being made as they go;
Yeah nah, get back to circle-jerking Obsidian with the rest of Codex, this comment sounds like you want ~innovation~. WL2 is supposed to be derivative, and there's nothing wrong with that. Traditional CRPG gamers backed it for a familiar experience, so they wouldn't be surprised, but wanted to get back to mechanics and gameplay from older RPG's. Who cares if lots of WL2's mechanics are derivative, like the AP mechanic, attribute system, and so on. Sounds to me like you're living in fairy land, you want some impossible "perfect" RPG.ATM it's a mediocre cookie-cutter RPG,
I honestly couldn't care less for C&C really, it's just more "Storyfaggotry" as the Codex terms it. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I want lots of big dungeons with their own unique graphic assets and look, unique enemies with their own unique attacks that make them challenging, I want all skills to be useful, and of course I want the weird, creepy and whacky feel of Wasteland. I'm not interested in CYOA bullshit. I want to kill things, get bigger guns, loot, and level up.that Fargo is promising to somehow turn into something more detailed, subtle and replayable than even Fallout and Planescape.
The art style is exactly the same they have been since the kickstarter began, so its exactly what they promised, whatever you like it or not. Also, try a real argument next time, instead of just being a edgy retard.Did D:OS's core design promise a horrible hypercolored cartoony art-style that looks like it was ripped from an Asian MMORPG? Because that's the thing they seem to have really nailed.
Just tweaking? The current combat is turn-based popamole, people in cover taking shots at other people in cover. Now suddenly they are adding stances and thinking about aimed shots... do you have any idea of how big a change it's to add something like aimed shots at this point? Adding new UI elements, reworking the AI, and rethinking the entire balance of the game! How lazy and shallow must have been their pre-production for them to only now start to focus on making the mechanics actually interesting... Same thing the C&C; they wrote the bare minimum, and now the beta testers are giving all the ideas and suggestions they couldn't come up for themselves.Except that it's not, all that stuff is already in the beta, there's good exploration, there's C&C involving saving HP/AC, and how you solve or not-solve the Rail Nomads/Golden Spike dispute. As for combat, they are adding a crouched stance, which isn't "The Combat" it's just a feature they decidedly to add during beta, which is completely normal thing to do, and all it requires is that it's balanced so the costs of going crouched in combat are weighed against whatever bonus it gives you. As for improving the AI so enemies can run up ladders and take firing positions during combat etc, which was already going to be part of WL2 combat - they're just tweaking which is what beta is for.
Yeah, how dare I expect fucking Brian Fargo and Chris Avellone, without any publisher to hold them back, to produce anything great? Nah, they'll just take systems that have been done way better before, make a mediocre copy of them, paste it all together and call it a day. And all the fanboys like you will rejoice on how awesome they are... because it's totally impossible to make a great RPG.Yeah nah, get back to circle-jerking Obsidian with the rest of Codex, this comment sounds like you want ~innovation~. WL2 is supposed to be derivative, and there's nothing wrong with that. Traditional CRPG gamers backed it for a familiar experience, so they wouldn't be surprised, but wanted to get back to mechanics and gameplay from older RPG's. Who cares if lots of WL2's mechanics are derivative, like the AP mechanic, attribute system, and so on. Sounds to me like you're living in fairy land, you want some impossible "perfect" RPG.
Fargo promised and keeps promising a game that is more replayable than any of his old games, focused on reactivity and all that. He has to deliver what he promises; what you want or care matter absolutely nothing here. Go play Borderlands.I honestly couldn't care less for C&C really, it's just more "Storyfaggotry" as the Codex terms it. Seems like a waste of resources to me. I want lots of big dungeons with their own unique graphic assets and look, unique enemies with their own unique attacks that make them challenging, I want all skills to be useful, and of course I want the weird, creepy and whacky feel of Wasteland. I'm not interested in CYOA bullshit. I want to kill things, get bigger guns, loot, and level up.
So? It's still pure shit artistic direction. WL2, both it's 2D and 3D elements, is beautiful.The art style is exactly the same they have been since the kickstarter began, so its exactly what they promised, whatever you like it or not. Also, try a real argument next time, instead of just being a edgy retard.
Just tweaking? The current combat is turn-based popamole, people in cover taking shots at other people in cover.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=popamole"Describes many third-person console shooters where the gameplay is all about sitting behind some brick and shooting heads of enemies popping out from behind other bricks - one of the ways to cover up the inability to dodge and do precise shots fast with a gamepad. Very similar to pop-a-mole or a whack-a-mole game hence the term.
First appeared in Kill-Switch and was copied in many games since then."
"Wow shooting people in Mass Effect, Gears of War and GTA4 feels like popamole"
Stances aren't a big deal, they just need to make sure the AI has the right scripts to use it right, and also that the "standing" stance is balanced against crouched, so both have advantages and distadvantages, and being crouched at all times isn't a no-brainer like Jagged Alliance 2.Now suddenly they are adding stances and thinking about aimed shots... do you have any idea of how big a change it's to add something like aimed shots at this point?
Sounds completely normal for a beta to me.Adding new UI elements, reworking the AI, and rethinking the entire balance of the game!
Things change when you have thousands of people playing/testing your product. Pre-production things mostly "on paper" or with primitive prototypes are never going to survive completely intact when faced with how the software actually really functions when real people are using it. Something can be good on paper, but end up less than great in real implementation in the game.How lazy and shallow must have been their pre-production for them to only now start to focus on making the mechanics actually interesting...
Not reallySame thing the C&C; they wrote the bare minimum, and now the beta testers are giving all the ideas and suggestions they couldn't come up for themselves.
You immediately associate a "great RPG" with coming up with all these ~innovative~ or whatever new systems, which is false. You should see the WL2 forums, backers are already not happy because of how far WL2 has gone from the original WL mechanics. Again, I think you're in a very small minority here, most backers want original or unique RPG mechanics, they want familiarity, they want to see those old CRPG mechanics and just have them copypasted. Which I think is fine too, this isn't supposed to be a game about innovation or originality or whatever, and really who gives a shit, we want nostalgia.Yeah, how dare I expect fucking Brian Fargo and Chris Avellone, without any publisher to hold them back, to produce anything great? Nah, they'll just take systems that have been done way better before, make a mediocre copy of them, paste it all together and call it a day. And all the fanboys like you will rejoice on how awesome they are... because it's totally impossible to make a great RPG.
And have you played the complete WL2 game? If not then STFU. If you put Wasteland and Fallout together and make a game, I'm not exactly sure what you get but it's sure gonna have unavoidable combat dungeons out the ass.Fargo promised and keeps promising a game that is more replayable than any of his old games, focused on reactivity and all that. He has to deliver what he promises; what you want or care matter absolutely nothing here. Go play Borderlands.