Broken Age - Double Fine's Kickstarter Adventure Game

[J_C]

Later this year.

 

[J_C]

16:10 Talk about puzzle difficulty, fixing the interface up a bit (especially the inventory), getting stuck and them that like it.

Watched this part. Tim's response was that you had to think about everyone, not just the the hardcore adventure gamers, they had to cater to the mainstream basicly. And this is one thing where Tim made a big mistake, and I actually fault him for that. We have seen some very good Kickstarters, like FTL and Conquistador, which delivered a very good game. And they delivered it for the backers. Now Tim should have made this game for the 90 000 backers who pledged for the game, and not for the mainstream. Obviously they want the game to sell well, but their game was funded by the backers, and even if no other copies were sold, the game wouldn't have made a loss. They have their other games to cater to the casuals, this game should have been harder.

 

[Pyke]

Watched this part. Tim's response was that you had to think about everyone, not just the the hardcore adventure gamers, they had to cater to the mainstream basicly. And this is one thing where Tim made a big mistake,

I was actually discussing this with my brother on Thursday when we were talking about how 'difficult' to make a certain puzzle and I really think that if casual gamers want to experience a puzzle game with ease they will use a walkthrough. Even if the game is really easy they have no problem reverting to a walkthrough.
The easiest way to 'please' both sides is to make a hard game, and provide a walkthrough. You could even go as far as making it a really nice designed book that they can print off, or have open to ALT+TAB to it, or hot key it in game. The Casual gaming market has NO problem using 'cheats' to finish a game. Hell, King and Candy Crush have an entire corporation built on the fact that the casual market would rather through a few $'s at a problem than actually finish it properly.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Watched this part. Tim's response was that you had to think about everyone, not just the the hardcore adventure gamers, they had to cater to the mainstream basicly. And this is one thing where Tim made a big mistake,

I was actually discussing this with my brother on Thursday when we were talking about how 'difficult' to make a certain puzzle and I really think that if casual gamers want to experience a puzzle game with ease they will use a walkthrough. Even if the game is really easy they have no problem reverting to a walkthrough.
The easiest way to 'please' both sides is to make a hard game, and provide a walkthrough. You could even go as far as making it a really nice designed book that they can print off, or have open to ALT+TAB to it, or hot key it in game. The Casual gaming market has NO problem using 'cheats' to finish a game. Hell, King and Candy Crush have an entire corporation built on the fact that the casual market would rather through a few $'s at a problem than actually finish it properly.

You reminded me of machinarium, a game witha built-in hint system. Machinarium wasn't so difficult, but it had it's share of hard puzzles that could get you stuck. And the hint sytem was a minigame, not difficult either but a little time consuming, which would you make some considerations about how to sopend this time: trying to solve the game a little more, or going to check the walkthrough without actually having to alt tab. And the hint system was just a visual walkthrough, that I realize it mad sense and it was made in a way that although it did gave all the solution, the fact that they were pictures made it kind of easier for you to just focus on the image that solves your problem, so you wouldn't accidently read a hint about another puzzle you haven't met yet.

 

[J_C]

Watched this part. Tim's response was that you had to think about everyone, not just the the hardcore adventure gamers, they had to cater to the mainstream basicly. And this is one thing where Tim made a big mistake,

I was actually discussing this with my brother on Thursday when we were talking about how 'difficult' to make a certain puzzle and I really think that if casual gamers want to experience a puzzle game with ease they will use a walkthrough. Even if the game is really easy they have no problem reverting to a walkthrough.
The easiest way to 'please' both sides is to make a hard game, and provide a walkthrough. You could even go as far as making it a really nice designed book that they can print off, or have open to ALT+TAB to it, or hot key it in game. The Casual gaming market has NO problem using 'cheats' to finish a game. Hell, King and Candy Crush have an entire corporation built on the fact that the casual market would rather through a few $'s at a problem than actually finish it properly.

Yes. For example the Back to the Future games of Telltale had a pretty good hint system. They had 3 levels, the first one only made a little hint, the second one even more, and the third one outright told you what to do. I see no reason why couldn't they implement this in Broken Age.

I argue that the casuals playing a hardcore adventure game would resort to a walkthrough is they stuck. Now maybe I'm wrong here, but as I see that those idiots think themselves as hardcore, smart players. They wouldn't swallow their pride and look the solution on the net. Rather they were bitching about to everyone, and didn't finish the game. And telling that it is a shit game. At least that's my theory. :shurgs:

 

[trustno1code]

I argue that the casuals playing a hardcore adventure game would resort to a walkthrough is they stuck. Now maybe I'm wrong here, but as I see that those idiots think themselves as hardcore, smart players. They wouldn't swallow their pride and look the solution on the net. Rather they were bitching about to everyone, and didn't finish the game. And telling that it is a shit game. At least that's my theory. :shurgs:

Nah, I think Pyke's right, from what little I've seen it's the exact opposite - "they" consider a "walkthrough" or at least some sort of hint system an integral and indispensable part of the game.

When The Curse of Shadow House (a Kickstarted horror adventure for mobiles, inspired by Shadowgate and 7th Guest) first appeared on iTunes, it got a bunch of 1 star reviews all complaining about the lack of hidden object screens, being too hard, and not having a built-in guide.
Hence this now appearing at the end of the description:

This is NOT a hidden object game and requires a bit of thought on the player's behalf to complete.

 

[FeelTheRads]

IT'S TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE EVERYONE!

The translation to that is: No game can be bad if someone likes it. All others are just haters.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Just in case anyone is reading this thread and is wondering about whether to try this game - don't.

Play Monkey Island 1 and 2 instead. You can get them from Steam.

 

[m_s0]

It's not quite oldschool in terms of design, it's obviously geared towards tablets in a lot of ways, the puzzles are trivial... What made it enjoyable for me was the story and the writing. For that alone I'd recommend playing it, but don't expect an oldschool adventure game with challenging puzzles, because Broken Age, sadly, isn't that.

Having written this, I'm not that happy with DF raising money for a niche game and then allowing the project to go out of control, having to secure other means of funding, and finally making a game that has to cater to the mainstream as a result of all this. As much as I've enjoyed the final product, it's kind of a fuck up.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Shit must be pretty bad if even Matt7895 hates it.

 

[Sòren]

Problem with that statement is that it's easy for Schafer to agree but dismiss the people who want harder puzzles as a tiny minority within the 90,000. As it is, even in the echo chamber, the negative backer-only polls have <1000 responses. And the doritos crowd is bending over backwards to praise the game.

this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[PlanHex]

16:10 Talk about puzzle difficulty, fixing the interface up a bit (especially the inventory), getting stuck and them that like it.

Watched this part. Tim's response was that you had to think about everyone, not just the the hardcore adventure gamers, they had to cater to the mainstream basicly. And this is one thing where Tim made a big mistake, and I actually fault him for that. We have seen some very good Kickstarters, like FTL and Conquistador, which delivered a very good game. And they delivered it for the backers. Now Tim should have made this game for the 90 000 backers who pledged for the game, and not for the mainstream. Obviously they want the game to sell well, but their game was funded by the backers, and even if no other copies were sold, the game wouldn't have made a loss. They have their other games to cater to the casuals, this game should have been harder.

I think part of it might be like that thing JESawyer was talking about.
People who think they are good at adventure games, but actually suck (like me)
Shouldn't pander to them (us) though, that's what walkthroughs are for.

 

[Wizfall]

I don't believe casuals dislike looking at walkthrough unless maybe if they have to do so for every puzzles.
I often use walkthrough (if i don't it means it is way too easy) in adventure games and i really don't care about it.
Now that you can find walkthrough everywhere on internet it is ridiculous to make only very easy puzzles IMO.

 

[aris]

Just played through the girl's part, really enjoying the game so far. It is as charming as every other Schafer game, and the art direction music and voice acting are all top notch. Puzzle difficulty is fine, about at the same level as Monkey Island 3 in the first half. But I'm kind of stumped with the space weaver, I got the map from the wolf, and I have the knitting tool to alter the space map during countdown, but I can't figure out how to do the markings looking at the map. There does not seem to be enough space on the map. I've also tried to go to every location, including back, and none of the seem to fit.

Is there something else I need to do first (I've already put the inhibitor on the globe)?

 

[m_s0]

No. Check the locations again and pick the only one that has the space for you to mark what you need to mark. It won't be exactly the same layout (I think there was an additional vertical row on the left or something like that).

 

[aris]

Ok finished it. Certainly not the second coming of adventure game jesus, but well worth my money so far with the first installment. Looking forward to the second one!


Any ETA on the second part?

 

[Pyke]

Just wanna say to anyone who is interested in game development, the documentary videos are MORE than worth the money for Slacker Backer access.

You can say what you want about the game, but the videos are exceptional.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Just wanna say to anyone who is interested in game development, the documentary videos are MORE than worth the money for Slacker Backer access.

You can say what you want about the game, but the videos are exceptional.

Spoiler

 

[toro]

Just wanna say to anyone who is interested in game development, the documentary videos are MORE than worth the money for Slacker Backer access.

You can say what you want about the game, but the videos are exceptional.

:patriot:

 

[Dexter]

The documentary was pretty fucking good.

 

[buzz]

Casuals don't like to check walkthroughs at all. The thing with casuals is not that they want things to be easier per se, they want their games to not be extremely complicated and especially they hate when their games are time-consuming. In case of adventure games, getting them out of the video game and making them google a walktrough would probably be the last thing they want. Especially if they play it on less versatile systems like tablets or consoles.
I've seen my girlfriend beat harder Candy Crush levels than many of the puzles Broken Age has. The reason she likes that or hidden-object-games is because she can have fun on the spot, for a couple of minutes. If she needs help, she can get it directly from the game.
Like I already said, Broken Age is not really a made-for-tablets/casual adventure game. If this is what Double Fine wanted to do by making the puzzles easier, then they failed pretty hard. I can easily imagine all of my casual gamer friends getting pissed off at the fruit part of the game. Shit, I even remember a buddy complaining about the radio/batteries puzzles in the first episode of The Walking Dead.

 

[m_s0]

Ok finished it. Certainly not the second coming of adventure game jesus, but well worth my money so far with the first installment. Looking forward to the second one!


Any ETA on the second part?

I read somewhere it's supposed to be May. In one of the release announcements somewhere, I think, but a projected release date probably doesn't mean much in this case.

Just wanna say to anyone who is interested in game development, the documentary videos are MORE than worth the money for Slacker Backer access.

Which you're no longer able to buy at this point.

 

[Metro]

The documentary was pretty fucking good.

If I want that I'll kickstart Werner Fucking Herzog.

 

[Dexter]

The documentary was pretty fucking good.

If I want that I'll kickstart Werner Fucking Herzog.

I backed specifically at a tier to get the full documentary afterwards and I got a lot more out of that (both from the enjoyment of watching/playing it) as well as from the actual length of it than I got out of the game so far, so yeah whatever.

I've said this multiple times and it's worth repeating yet again: The documentary alone was more than worth the money I put into this.

 

[MicoSelva]

You're the second person who's said they could have spent the money to make a sequel to an old hit. Seriously, don't we have enough sequels -- from publisher-backed games, no less?

Clearly, you haven't played Psychonauts.