swethabasu
Novice
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 5
Yes we will fell in love with RPG if that is real like HELLGATES
Those threads aren't such a bad idea after all.Yeesh said:There would be no problems of this sort if the esteemed community here could just come up with a succinct, functional definition for RPG. You can't expect the unwashed masses to understand the I'll-know-one-when-I-see-it approach, since they lack our great experience and sophistication.
Darth Roxor said:Motherfuck, we're starting to reach a terminal singularity where Halo Wars really will be considered an rpg.
I'm too old for this shit.
Yeesh said:There would be no problems of this sort if the esteemed community here could just come up with a succinct, functional definition for RPG. You can't expect the unwashed masses to understand the I'll-know-one-when-I-see-it approach, since they lack our great experience and sophistication.
Excommunicator said:Here's a face to go with the name in case anyone wanted to go give him a visit..
Lord Rocket said:Well basically, if a game approximates the experience of playing a P&P RPG, then it is a CRPG. I haven't played ME2 so I can't answer your question specifically but I'd say the defining aspect of a P&P RPG is the fact that you play the system as much as the game; ie gaining advantage is more about manipulating probability than raw luck/dexterity/whatevs (same deal with wargames really but the difference between them should be obvious). Hence why games like Diablo can be RPGs too (monty haul hack 'n' slash campaign with a shitty GM), despite the fact they lack sequential combat/C&C/dialogue/exploration or whatever it is you losers like, while games like CoD can't - ooh, you unlocked a new gun! Can you click it in the right place though?
The real problem with defining 'RPGs' is the fact that most of the definitions out there are really only trying to encompass what they like about the genre. Traveller is an RPG, for instance, with no XP system. You could play an entire campaign of D&D without a single conversation with an NPC. You don't necessarily have to explore anything in a CoC adventure. You sure as shit can't play dress-up in GURPS Ice Age.
Actually, thinking about it, this definition breaks down a little when considering stat-heavy FPSes like SS2 and Deus Ex. These aren't RPGs (I know some people think they are, but lolz) but nevertheless there is a healthy element of gaming the system in there. I think they don't qualify because they aren't abstract enough. Whatevs though, I'll think about that some more later, right now I'm going to grab myself another scotch and dry. On that note sorry if this was a little incoherent, I haven't had that much but it went straight to my head. Can't hold my liquor.
AlaCarcuss said:Lord Rocket said:Well basically, if a game approximates the experience of playing a P&P RPG, then it is a CRPG. I haven't played ME2 so I can't answer your question specifically but I'd say the defining aspect of a P&P RPG is the fact that you play the system as much as the game; ie gaining advantage is more about manipulating probability than raw luck/dexterity/whatevs (same deal with wargames really but the difference between them should be obvious). Hence why games like Diablo can be RPGs too (monty haul hack 'n' slash campaign with a shitty GM), despite the fact they lack sequential combat/C&C/dialogue/exploration or whatever it is you losers like, while games like CoD can't - ooh, you unlocked a new gun! Can you click it in the right place though?
The real problem with defining 'RPGs' is the fact that most of the definitions out there are really only trying to encompass what they like about the genre. Traveller is an RPG, for instance, with no XP system. You could play an entire campaign of D&D without a single conversation with an NPC. You don't necessarily have to explore anything in a CoC adventure. You sure as shit can't play dress-up in GURPS Ice Age.
Actually, thinking about it, this definition breaks down a little when considering stat-heavy FPSes like SS2 and Deus Ex. These aren't RPGs (I know some people think they are, but lolz) but nevertheless there is a healthy element of gaming the system in there. I think they don't qualify because they aren't abstract enough. Whatevs though, I'll think about that some more later, right now I'm going to grab myself another scotch and dry. On that note sorry if this was a little incoherent, I haven't had that much but it went straight to my head. Can't hold my liquor.
Nope, that's pretty good. I guess it can be summed up by - "What differentiates RPG's is the player character's skill is more important than the player's skill?" That certainly counts out ME2 (and most aRPG's marketed as cRPG's).
Admiral jimbob said:An RPG is a game with at least two of the following:
1) Elves
2) Swords
3) Magic
Mass Effect 2 is an RPG. The blue lesbian species are pretty much elves, and biotics are magic. It probably has some lightsaber ripoff too.
Call of Duty, on the other hand, is not an RPG. While it has knives, which count as swords in a pinch, the closest it gets to Elves and magic are Russians.
Fallout is not an RPG.
Admiral jimbob said:An RPG is a game with at least two of the following:
1) Elves
2) Swords
3) Magic
Mass Effect 2 is an RPG. The blue lesbian species are pretty much elves, and biotics are magic. It probably has some lightsaber ripoff too.
Call of Duty, on the other hand, is not an RPG. While it has knives, which count as swords in a pinch, the closest it gets to Elves and magic are Russians.
Fallout is not an RPG.
Admiral jimbob said:An RPG is a game with at least two of the following:
1) Elves
2) Swords
3) Magic
Mass Effect 2 is an RPG. The blue lesbian species are pretty much elves, and biotics are magic. It probably has some lightsaber ripoff too.
Call of Duty, on the other hand, is not an RPG. While it has knives, which count as swords in a pinch, the closest it gets to Elves and magic are Russians.
Fallout is not an RPG.
MicoSelva said:Why is every other topic here turning into "what is an RPG"?
Ok, scratch that, this is RPG Codex after all. Who is supposed to tell if a game is an RPG if we're not.
The bad thing is the argument goes in circles not reaching any conclusion. It seems that we have to decide if a game is an RPG every time a new pretender appears, as there are no objective criteria that would let some automatic classifications.
I think that the biggest mistake we make is analyzing a game for presence of RPG elements. Let's face it - 90% of games today have fucking RPG elements, but it doesn't make 90% of today's games RPGs. It's not the presence of these we should be taking into consideration, but the focus of the game.
Three examples.
The whole point of Oblivion, atrocious as the game is, is character progression (debatable, due to level scaling), inventory management, solving quests and exploration - staples of RPG. No dilemma here - Oblivion is an RPG. Quality of its RPG elements make it a shitty one, but that's beside the point.
Blood Bowl also has character progression - levels, skills, experience (star player points), quests (in story mode - called objectives) and even inventory (in blitz mode). But no one sane would call it an RPG, because the point of the game is to show elves and orcs playing football.
Mass Effect has (simplistic) character progression, (extremely limited) inventory (gun, better gun, even better gun), quests (called missions/assignments) and even (corridor) exploration. All arguments about calling it an RPG are caused by the game's lack of focus. Gamer A might see the point of ME as shooting aliens in corridors, Gamer B as running from one cutscene-dialogue to another and checking all the possible options, Gamer C might want to make an uber-Shepard with maxed out skills.
I'm trying to say that You will see RPG in ME if You want to see it, but since RPG elements are weak it will turn out to be a shitty one in every analysis. The game should probably be honestly classified a hybrid (shooter/RPG) game - with ME2 leaning more towards the shooter side.
I will allow myself to draw another conclusion here:
Is Jagged Alliance 2 an RPG? I think not. It may have a lot of genre's elements - even implemented very well - but it does not focus on them. The point of the game is completing turn-based combat misions with a squad of mercenaries. RPG elements just make it (oh so much) better.
Lord Rocket said:Well basically, if a game approximates the experience of playing a P&P RPG, then it is a CRPG. I haven't played ME2 so I can't answer your question specifically but I'd say the defining aspect of a P&P RPG is the fact that you play the system as much as the game; ie gaining advantage is more about manipulating probability than raw luck/dexterity/whatevs (same deal with wargames really but the difference between them should be obvious). Hence why games like Diablo can be RPGs too (monty haul hack 'n' slash campaign with a shitty GM), despite the fact they lack sequential combat/C&C/dialogue/exploration or whatever it is you losers like, while games like CoD can't - ooh, you unlocked a new gun! Can you click it in the right place though?
The real problem with defining 'RPGs' is the fact that most of the definitions out there are really only trying to encompass what they like about the genre. Traveller is an RPG, for instance, with no XP system. You could play an entire campaign of D&D without a single conversation with an NPC. You don't necessarily have to explore anything in a CoC adventure. You sure as shit can't play dress-up in GURPS Ice Age.
Actually, thinking about it, this definition breaks down a little when considering stat-heavy FPSes like SS2 and Deus Ex. These aren't RPGs (I know some people think they are, but lolz) but nevertheless there is a healthy element of gaming the system in there. I think they don't qualify because they aren't abstract enough. Whatevs though, I'll think about that some more later, right now I'm going to grab myself another scotch and dry. On that note sorry if this was a little incoherent, I haven't had that much but it went straight to my head. Can't hold my liquor.
MicoSelva said:Why is every other topic here turning into "what is an RPG"?
Ok, scratch that, this is RPG Codex after all. Who is supposed to tell if a game is an RPG if we're not.
The bad thing is the argument goes in circles not reaching any conclusion. It seems that we have to decide if a game is an RPG every time a new pretender appears, as there are no objective criteria that would let some automatic classifications.
I think that the biggest mistake we make is analyzing a game for presence of RPG elements. Let's face it - 90% of games today have fucking RPG elements, but it doesn't make 90% of today's games RPGs. It's not the presence of these we should be taking into consideration, but the focus of the game.
Three examples.
The whole point of Oblivion, atrocious as the game is, is character progression (debatable, due to level scaling), inventory management, solving quests and exploration - staples of RPG. No dilemma here - Oblivion is an RPG. Quality of its RPG elements make it a shitty one, but that's beside the point.
Blood Bowl also has character progression - levels, skills, experience (star player points), quests (in story mode - called objectives) and even inventory (in blitz mode). But no one sane would call it an RPG, because the point of the game is to show elves and orcs playing football.
Mass Effect has (simplistic) character progression, (extremely limited) inventory (gun, better gun, even better gun), quests (called missions/assignments) and even (corridor) exploration. All arguments about calling it an RPG are caused by the game's lack of focus. Gamer A might see the point of ME as shooting aliens in corridors, Gamer B as running from one cutscene-dialogue to another and checking all the possible options, Gamer C might want to make an uber-Shepard with maxed out skills.
I'm trying to say that You will see RPG in ME if You want to see it, but since RPG elements are weak it will turn out to be a shitty one in every analysis. The game should probably be honestly classified a hybrid (shooter/RPG) game - with ME2 leaning more towards the shooter side.
I will allow myself to draw another conclusion here:
Is Jagged Alliance 2 an RPG? I think not. It may have a lot of genre's elements - even implemented very well - but it does not focus on them. The point of the game is completing turn-based combat misions with a squad of mercenaries. RPG elements just make it (oh so much) better.
Crooked Bee said:But is Pokemon an RPG series?
Crooked Bee said:But is Pokemon an RPG series?
IronicNeurotic said:Crooked Bee said:But is Pokemon an RPG series?
Pretty close I would say.
The only reason I could think of why it is not is because you don't progress your own charachter.
The rest is pretty much there.