Can RPGs ever be as intelligent and engrossing as they used to be?

[Storyfag]

I shall call this post: Living in hope.

Eastern Europe will come to the rescue. So much money will be made from games like PF:K and CDProjekt's games that they will be able to open a studio in their countries, that are beholden only to their laws. Then MCA and any other 'old band' developers who have been cancelled will traverse the oceans in their dingies (saving the drowning babies of their dreams along the way) and seek refuge in these new havens of artistic expression and freedom of thought.

And thus, will the RPG of yesterday be reborn, resurrected, and have big tits and an ass like Anna's once more!.

The end.

For I live in hope.

Beautiful dream. Let's just hope it will become reality.

 

[Mastermind]

Then what are we all still doing here?

I shall call this post: Living in hope.

Eastern Europe will come to the rescue. So much money will be made from games like PF:K and CDProjekt's games that they will be able to open a studio in their countries, that are beholden only to their laws. Then MCA and any other 'old band' developers who have been cancelled will traverse the oceans in their dingies (saving the drowning babies of their dreams along the way) and seek refuge in these new havens of artistic expression and freedom of thought.

And thus, will the RPG of yesterday be reborn, resurrected, and have big tits and an ass like Anna's once more!.

The end.

For I live in hope.

Masturbating Cuck Avellone is probably doing a live reenactment of Binding of Isaac right now. Has anyone actually heard from/checked on him to make sure he's alive?

 

[guestposting]

Come on, we’ve had so much quality content come out in the last few years. Even if you just want to focus on stuff that’s fully voiced, Wasteland 3 is surprisingly good (I thought 2 was okay, but ultimately pretty flawed and unfulfilling). Is it intellectually stimulating? Not really sure what you mean by that in the context of CRPGs, though it’s certainly engrossing as hell.

Hell, Baldur’s Gate 3 is looking like it could be good, too, despite Larian’s past output.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

If I want a story I'll read a book, which is a superior medium.

while books tell more complex stories than games, they're also hard to get into for a illiterate fag with adhd like me, because books lack audiovisual representation and interactivity. Visual novels are mostly anime, and i find animes to be superior, though animes have no interactivity.

So if i want tolkien/sci-fi non-anime storyfaggotrism with gameplay, western RPGs is the only viable option.

 

[Narax]

I highly doubt it will get better, especially considering the current agenda-driven, cash-grabbing AAA gaming market.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Maybe the real engrossing rpgs were the friends we made along the way?

 

[Kainan]

Not really, im actually a slavophile and a slav myself

Russian games are always flawed in one way or another, but otherwise are very creative and have some good ideas in them.

What makes some russian games fun despite many flaws is simply that they're hard, no? I don't think the reason must be searched somewhere else, and I think it's the same for many old games (russian or not).

Space Rangers games have no significant flaws, other than making even some Codex favorites pale in comparison...
I have dreamed often of a third game. Even if it had to be 3d im sure they could make it stylish like the Kings Bounty gfx(also great games). Maybe this time without an external enemy but with an all out war between the races.
Alas i dont know wtf have Katauri/Elemental been doing lately other than some mmo shit? Or whether they have the same people anymore.

 

[Butter]

If I want a story I'll read a book, which is a superior medium.

while books tell more complex stories than games, they're also hard to get into for a illiterate fag with adhd like me, because books lack audiovisual representation and interactivity. Visual novels are mostly anime, and i find animes to be superior, though animes have no interactivity.

So if i want tolkien/sci-fi non-anime storyfaggotrism with gameplay, western RPGs is the only viable option.

Books on tape, nigger.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Books on tape, nigger.

Nah, audiobooks sucks imo, too distracting and too fast paced for me to get immersed in the story, i would rather read the book myself.

But, in the end i would rather do neither and play a game instead, reading is too hard for people with short attention span like me.

Also, i can't stand listening robotic voice from audiobooks:

Spoiler

 

[Maxie]

yeah we need real cerebral games for cerebral games everything must be about depressed has-beens and mean drunks for Codexers to self-insert
God forbid you enjoy some silly heroics unironically in the dreaded 2020s

 

[Lord_Potato]

yeah we need real cerebral games for cerebral games everything must be about depressed has-beens and mean drunks for Codexers to self-insert
God forbid you enjoy some silly heroics unironically in the dreaded 2020s

Silly heroics is still 99% of the genre. Perhaps that's why it is so stale. Games like P:T or DE are a rare and very welcome breath of fresh air.

 

[Maxie]

yeah we need real cerebral games for cerebral games everything must be about depressed has-beens and mean drunks for Codexers to self-insert
God forbid you enjoy some silly heroics unironically in the dreaded 2020s

Silly heroics is still 99% of the genre. Perhaps that's why it is so stale. Games like P:T or DE are a rare breath of fresh air.

Let's make unthreaded screws, such a rare breath of fresh air

 

[CaffeineConquistador]

yeah we need real cerebral games for cerebral games everything must be about depressed has-beens and mean drunks for Codexers to self-insert
God forbid you enjoy some silly heroics unironically in the dreaded 2020s

Silly heroics is still 99% of the genre. Perhaps that's why it is so stale. Games like P:T or DE are a rare breath of fresh air.

Let's make unthreaded screws, such a rare breath of fresh air

https://www.amazon.co.jp/Market-Unthreaded-Washers-Similar-Articles/dp/B0874KZM52

 

[Tyranicon]

Cause it's no longer profitable.

There, end of thread.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Crispy Crispyㅤ (tagging both as I don't know which is the real one):

You should play Breath of the Wild. It nails everything that was great about old games, but with modern graphics, controls, and convenience. Truly a wonder of modern gaming.

 

[majestik12]

Were RPGs ever as intelligent and engrossing as we remember them?
More verbose, yes. But intelligent? Well, if you see licensed TSR fiction tier schlock fantasy as intelligent, you could probably say that.
Come on, it's mass entertainment, it is supposed to be fun, not intelligent, leave "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty Gold Box" to the insecure kids who can't enjoy their hobby without external validation.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Some were definitely intelligent, like Ultima Underworld 1/2, Arx Fatalis, Anachronox, Ultimas, etc, in that they required you to think in order to progress. But even the others, while they didn't require any lightbulb moments, they were devoid of modern shit like quest compasses, cookie trails, map markers, and quests being broken down into tiny steps with everything logged into the journal. So at least you felt like you were engaged in some mental work, even if you weren't that much,

 

[King Crispy]

That's a p. fair post, Porky. Well said.

 

[Luckmann]

Yeah, I think it's a mistake to say "intelligent", because people will inevitably conflate it with things that are more rightly called "academic", "philosophical" or "deep™". A game doesn't have to be "intelligent" to be good, and I think it's better to focus on how engaging something is, and if or how it makes us think, consider things, or favor creative problem-solving. And older games definitely weren't more verbose; this is a common misconception based on gems like Planescape: Torment, one that led to trash like Torment: Tides of Numanuma.

And while a game doesn't need to be "intelligent", games have absolutely become dumber in precisely the way Porky describes. In terms of intellectual stimulation, I think we're actually closer to "interactive novel" than ever. Arguably even worse than a book, since you often don't even have to read what's going on.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Someone posted a video here where the creator identified RPG and cRPG separate genres. Basically cRPGs were to him, oldschool top down games and RPGs were the more modern immersive sim approach to the genre. That was the first time that I had been exposed to that way of thinking about it and I thought it was great. I renders moot so many Codexian criticisms of modern RPGs when you think of them as a separate genre to cRPGs, and it's hard to argue that making such a distinction is invalid. The only arguments I see as relevant relate to where these genre boundaries should lie.

I'm not especially worried that mainsteam companies are focusing more on first person, real time immersive RPGs to the exclusion of cRPGs because I enjoy both genres and I think they have the resources necessary to do a better job creating these kinds of games than indies do. Graphics, voice acting, animations, physics etc matter a lot in these kinds of games and only the big studies can feasibly be at the cutting edge of these things.

cRPGs, on the other hand, have never been a mainstream interest and I don't see it as reasonable to expect mainstream companies to make them. However, they are still being made. A demand exists and is being filled wonderfully by companies like Owlcat. I've been away from the hobby for some time and am just now playing Kingmaker for the first time. It is sublime, possibly my favorite cRPG experience ever. Like all gaming companies they will emerge and disappear, be founded, sold etc but I think cRPGs will continue to be made for quite a while yet. Especially as PnP becomes more of a mainstream interest thanks to the popularity of shows like Critical Role, more of these people are likely to seek out cRPGs for the same reason as the original founders of the genre.

 

[Luckmann]

Someone posted a video here where the creator identified RPG and cRPG separate genres.

Then he should probably come up with a better abbreviation, because CRPG just means Computer Role-Playing Game. I don't know where the misunderstanding that it meant "classic" ever came from.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Someone posted a video here where the creator identified RPG and cRPG separate genres.

Then he should probably come up with a better abbreviation, because CRPG just means Computer Role-Playing Game. I don't know where the misunderstanding that it meant "classic" ever came from.

It's not a misunderstanding. He acknowledged that that's what it means. But in practice cRPG means something very differnt from RPGs like The Witcher 3. So the distinction is a modern one. Language changes over time to fit usage. Distinguishing between PnP RPGs and cRPGs was the old meaning of the c, but we have the PnP to do that now. Now the c is better served by meaning "classic". Regardless of the labels applied it is clear The Witcher doesn't belong to the same genre as Planescape Torment and calling Planescape Torment a cRPG and The Witcher and RPG is just as serviceable as calling it anything else because people are already doing that.

 

[zaper]

Can we?

 

[Ismaul]

Regardless of the labels applied it is clear The Witcher doesn't belong to the same genre as Planescape Torment

They're really close in many aspects though: storyfag RPGs with good writing, centered on a predefined gruff protagonist, with trashy combat.

You're just focussed on the differences.

 

[Luckmann]

It's not a misunderstanding. He acknowledged that that's what it means. But in practice cRPG means something very differnt from RPGs like The Witcher 3. So the distinction is a modern one. Language changes over time to fit usage. Distinguishing between PnP RPGs and cRPGs was the old meaning of the c, but we have the PnP to do that now. Now the c is better served by meaning "classic".

His misunderstanding regarding CRPG as an abbreviation is irrelevant. To exacerbate a misunderstanding because "muh language change" instead of acknowledging the mistake is just fucking retarded. The distinction between a CRPG and an RPG is a relevant one. If he wants to create a new subgenre of CRPGs, then he's free to to argue that, and it would be no different from ARPGs or JRPGs, all which we consider relatively distinct subgenres.

But trying to misappropriate a commonly acknowledged term for virtually no reason other than to rationalize his own initial misunderstanding of the term? Utterly retarded.

Regardless of the labels applied it is clear The Witcher doesn't belong to the same genre as Planescape Torment

This is incorrect. They are distinct, but both are still generally considered CRPGs, although The Witcher is arguably a different subgenre, potentially an ARPG, albeit obviously distinct from the more classic ARPGs that generally carry the term.

and calling Planescape Torment a cRPG and The Witcher and RPG is just as serviceable as calling it anything else

No, because CRPG is already a generally acknowledge, pre-existing term. I've only ever seen newbies and tourists carry this confusion, after seemingly picking up on conversations on subjects which they have no understanding.