Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

CD Projekt's CYBERPUNK 2077 - coming December 10th

Discussion in 'CD Projekt Red' started by Azazel, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Quillon Magister

    Quillon
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    4,569
    We already know attributes will dictate how high you can get with different skills so as long as increasing skills won't grant XP/level up, I'm ok with this. Otherwise its Skyrim retardation; "accidental" easy first levels in skills I'll never use later, increase character level therefore scales up the world :P Not that it becomes too hard but its annoying to have wasted skills counted as part of my character's power.

    If there'll be levelled gear, it will be more annoying than anything else tho... like in ESs, like in DOS2... or W3, tho at least there were enough unlevelled Witcher Sets to ignore all the crap gear.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Danikas Arcane

    Danikas
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,227
    Citation needed.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 8
    • Salute Salute x 5
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  3. Whipped Cream Learned Patron

    Whipped Cream
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2019
    Messages:
    150
    Leonard Boyarsky mentioned in one of the Outer Worlds interviews that the reason why they went with a Fallout-style levelling system instead of a Skyrim-style "you level your skills as you use them" system is that the latter type of system is very prone to exploitation.

    To that I would add that 1. the latter type of system is also harder to balance and 2. the latter type of system often rewards the player for acting in an illogical manner. E.g. in Skyrim the optimal way to play a melee character is to take as many hits as possible in each minor encounter to increase you armor skill. Which is retarded. Honestly I don't think anyone has ever done the latter type of system well, and as much as I loved The Witcher 3, the levelling system and combat balance in that game was very bad in vanilla, so I'm not super optimistic that CDPR will be the ones who finally "cracks the key".

    Dont even get me started on how much I hated the crafting system in The Witcher 3.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. hivemind Liturgist Patron Pretty Princess

    hivemind
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,763
    the only way to fix levelling systems in action RPGs(aka any and all third or first person ones) is to make away with the failed notion that character skill > player skill and finally realize that character skills should only exist to allow for a broader expression and greater impact of player skill
     
    • Agree x 3
    • Brofist x 2
    • STOP! posting x 1
    • Makes you think... x 1
    • Interesting x 1
    • cuck x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

    AwesomeButton
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    10,063
    Location:
    At large
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    An open world and a learn by doing system doesn't bode well IMO.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,387
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    Cataclysm DDA handles skill-up-by-use well because it's isolated to the skills portion of your character (unless you're using STats through Skills mod) and you don't even have character levels. You can shore up any skills you don't regularly use by finding skill books, which requires some effort. Also the world is much more dangerous, so skilling up alone only does so much for your ability to survive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    ^ Top  
  7. volklore Learned

    volklore
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    146
    Learn by use is fine as long as it does not affect the main character level. Here it seems that you have stats gatekeeping how high your learn-by use skill can go (like in morrowind) but those skills do no seem to grant xp like in TES games. The latter is the reason why the TES learn by use system is broken.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. toro Arcane

    toro
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    10,528
    True but you did not learn skills by doing stuff. You had skill points + money which you spent to increase your skills.

    Learn by doing is not the same as spending skill points + money + search for a skill trainer.

    Edit: Fuck. I miss Gothic.

    Example: I've played Skyrim for a couple of hours and I was able to level Smithing from 0 to 100 in like 20 minutes just by crafting Knives (the cheapest thing you could craft in that game). Then I crafted some Legendary Sword, I went into the wild, killed 2 dragons and uninstalled the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. toro Arcane

    toro
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    10,528
    Learn by use makes the main level irrelevant. Maybe they don't even implement one.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Carrion Arcane Patron

    Carrion
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,504
    Location:
    Lost in Necropolis
    Not very optimistic about the learn-by-use system since it's almost certainly going to exploitable as fuck. The one positive you can take from that snippet is that he mentions reloading and weapon handling animations, which hints that the skill system might be a tad more creative than average. I'm pretty sick of skill systems where your stats only affect accuracy or damage (or unlock some nonsensical superpower perks), when there are tons of different things about firearms that you could tie into character skills. A master gunslinger should not only be more lethal than a novice, but playing one should also feel sufficiently different.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. MpuMngwana Learned

    MpuMngwana
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Messages:
    205
    Not if all enemies five levels above you magically have 10 times as much health and deal 15 times as much damage as they normally do.

    Show Spoiler
    :negative:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • decline decline x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Wyatt_Derp Cipher

    Wyatt_Derp
    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Okie Land
    Pimples are typically a side effect of hormone imbalance in males, mainly due to over-concentration of testosterone. Since the big T has now been effectively removed from the male populace through PBB, BPA, Zeranol, Atrazine, and other estro causing additives, this is no longer a functioning demo. Please refer to the FCOH page 34 for more on Agenda 21 rules for society, or any section of 'let's have fun with bio-chemistry.'
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 2
    • "It was Aliens" "It was Aliens" x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Melcar Arcane

    Melcar
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,879
    Location:
    Merida, again
    So ancient nerds were high T individuals?
     
    • Yes Yes x 4
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    44,904
    The Chad pimpled face nerd vs the virgin soy hipster faggot.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    ^ Top  
  15. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,109
    Vault Dweller any thoughts re: the comments here on “improve by using” skill systems and it’s implementation in the Colony Ship RPG?

    I realize you don’t have an open world and there are caps per fight/action but since you’ve given it more thought than a lot of the armchair quarterbacks here, I’m curious about your take.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Wyatt_Derp Cipher

    Wyatt_Derp
    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Okie Land
    Yes. The UN carpet bombed the Smurfs, why wouldn't they put shit in your burger, bro?

     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    ^ Top  
  17. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,104
    I would like that. Bloodlines had no main level and it worked fine! As for leveling skills, to me only real training would make sense, like someone gives you a quest and as a reward he will teach you something...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,675
    Didn't Wiz 8, Prelude to Darkness, Jagged Alliance, Dungeon Master, Betrayal at Krondor, and many other well-regarded RPGs use such systems with great effect? The Elder Scroll system is so prone to 'abuse' because making you the master of all trades and factions was the goal not because the system itself is so prone to abuse. As for our take on it:

    http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,7664.0.html
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 8
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. luj1 You're all shills

    luj1
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,379
    Location:
    Eastern block
    You are retarded, not the system. Optimal way? What is optimal about that? Optimal means efficient. If you are an OCD'd retard with a grinding playstyle ready to waste hours and hours on dumb shit then that's your problem.

    It's not that. Morrowind had a true open world + learn by doing + everything hand placed and it worked out amazing.
     
    • Disagree x 2
    • Brofist x 1
    • [citation needed] x 1
    • butthurt x 1
    • retadred x 1
    • Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,675
    Wiz 8?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Zer0wing Liturgist

    Zer0wing
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,200
    Wait.. Wizardry games are not made by japs?
     
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Mr. Hiver Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Mr. Hiver
    Joined:
    May 8, 2018
    Messages:
    705
    Vault Dweller

    a question or two, just curious about some design decisions.

    Why give such advantage to heavy armor only? Isnt there light armor and some sort of medium armor, or just heavy armor and dodging-evasion?

    Is there any limit to which and how many of different skills each character can take? Or is the limit achieved just by the fact a single character would, for example, fix everything and so increase the mechanical and electronic skills while others then wont be able to find enough of stuff to repair and salvage?

    What actually differentiates solving with diplomacy only from solving with diplomacy and then killing everyone? Say, im careful to solve it through diplomacy instead of just randomly clicking all dialogue options and then i kill everyone.
    What if I get diplomacy points, go away and then return later and kill everyone in that location?

    Will impersonate require anything else except dialogue choices?
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,387
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    Within two comments, Colony Ship already seems like a more interesting RPG than the game that's been talked about for 170+pages
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • incline incline x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

    AwesomeButton
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    10,063
    Location:
    At large
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I haven't played it, but I've played Morrowind and a little Oblivion.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Mikeal Cipher

    Mikeal
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,770
    Location:
    Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    [​IMG]
     
    • Prestigious x 4
    • Fabulously Optimistic x 2
    • Brofist x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • [citation needed] x 1
    • Bro, do you even lift? x 1
    • When words are not enough x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.