Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Alexios]

oblivion leveling in 2019...my god this is innovative...the future of rpgs....

 

[Zer0wing]

oblivion leveling in 2019...my god this is innovative...the future of rpgs....

Just like in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. The future is here... And it's decline.

This music loop awfully reminds me of Glukoza. This games OST will be awful and cringy for sure. A huge decline from 2018s scav hardbass combat music.

 

[Drakron]

dumb system

Agreed, TES system never worked right because it sounds good on paper but in practice it leads to all sort of problem when raising certain skills.
I think its just some designers love the concept but fail to understand that any system requires a degree of control that such systems lack, TES is or was abused by making classes that had skills you never intended to use to abuse the autoscaling system. what they achieve with such "training systems" is grinding because its the only way to advance and thats fucking boring or making then pointless since its a hybrid system and people will just say "fuck that noise".

Good thing I havent pre-ordered since I have never enjoyed a game with "use skill to level up" as this is a hard pass, doesnt help more and more I hear about it makes me scratch my head and ask why? Like why the fuck you have a character generation system when its played first person and you never see your character?

 

[toro]

This is retarded.

We have Attributes like STR, REF etc. which can be raised by leveling up and Installing body cyberware; Skills, raised by successfully performing actions (Hacking, Crafting, Short Guns, Long Guns etc.); Perks unlocked with both Street Cred and XP.

— Cyberpunk 2077 (@CyberpunkGame) July 26, 2018

https://twitter.com/CyberpunkGame/status/1022482194059730945?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Zer0wing]

Agreed, TES system never worked right because it sounds good on paper but in practice it leads to all sort of problem when raising certain skills.
I think its just some designers love the concept but fail to understand that any system requires a degree of control that such systems lack, TES is or was abused by making classes that had skills you never intended to use to abuse the autoscaling system. what they achieve with such "training systems" is grinding because its the only way to advance and thats fucking boring or making then pointless since its a hybrid system and people will just say "fuck that noise".

Good thing I havent pre-ordered since I have never enjoyed a game with "use skill to level up" as this is a hard pass, doesnt help more and more I hear about it makes me scratch my head and ask why? Like why the fuck you have a character generation system when its played first person and you never see your character?

I would get it personally if they ported over the original leveling system from CP 2020 rulebook, where the only levels you got is skills levels. It takes awful lot of "practice" to gain next level in gun skill level and it gets even longer with each new skill level increase.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The level scaling was necessary in Daggerfall because all the content was generated on the spot. It made no sense to use it once they started handcrafting everything.

Also, look at the soy in that guy's face. No wonder modern level design is shit, look who they are hiring. What happened to my pimple faced nerds of old?

 

[Echo Mirage]

the game takes place under sunny skies

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel."

I keep seeing people quoting this but I don't get how a comparison to TV static can be interpreted as meaning nice weather.
Sounds more like a nasty, dirty overcast. I imagine either grey static or a PAL test pattern but if you see that thing up in the sky, it's not the sky. It's the shrooms.

At the time Neuromancer was published in 1982, a dead channel would have meant gray static, and apparently there's a later quote from William Gibson that he was thinking of the somewhat different dead channel color from the televisions of his youth ("I actually composed that first image with black and white video static of my childhood in mind, sodium silvery and almost painful").

Later televisions would display blue screens, perhaps appropriate for a sunny Californian sky, though it seems televisions have moved on from that to displaying nothing other than a "no signal" message.

I'm old enough to remember when the BBC would broadcast a dead channel. The common name people called it was "Snow".

 

[Doktor Best]

Learn by use is the epitome of meh but Gothic style animation improvements when you advance in skills is nice. As long as it wont have Bethesda style level scaling and the combat is not ultra damagespongy i can live with it.

 

[toro]

Learn by use is the epitome of meh but Gothic style animation improvements when you advance in skills is nice. As long as it wont have Bethesda style level scaling and the combat is not ultra damagespongy i can live with it.

Gothic was not learn by use.

 

[Danikas]

Learn by use is the epitome of meh but Gothic style animation improvements when you advance in skills is nice. As long as it wont have Bethesda style level scaling and the combat is not ultra damagespongy i can live with it.

Gothic was not learn by use.

But it had combat animations that improved with each skill lvl, something that first Witcher game also had.

 

[Drakron]

This is retarded.

We have Attributes like STR, REF etc. which can be raised by leveling up and Installing body cyberware; Skills, raised by successfully performing actions (Hacking, Crafting, Short Guns, Long Guns etc.); Perks unlocked with both Street Cred and XP.

— Cyberpunk 2077 (@CyberpunkGame) July 26, 2018

Here is the main problem, there are skills you want to raise but opportunities to use then are less, take hacking ... you will be shooting far more often that using hacking and this leads to a uneven "experience gaining amount" because in a entire encounter situation you will do maybe 4 hacking but will likely have up to 20+ enemies to shoot at, this gets worst with Stealth (if there is Stealth) because the system is as pointed out by success, meaning you have to find some enemy that have low enough perception so you can not be spotted and abuse the fuck out of the system by having you "train".

So either skills are useless because they cannot lock options, meaning the entire training system is pointless or they are required and basically being TES "training" with shit like Stealth and Trading having to be raised on stupid shit like I pointed out because all systems struggle with such non-combat skills already let along with "success to raise" training systems.

Also let me point out this, its supposed to have melee weapons like a Katana and its 1st Person ... melee weapons only work in 3rd person because they require very specific animations to not look dumb and they arent cool to see in 1st person.

Edit: Oh fucking Hell ... CRAFTING, fuck this I am OUT.

 

[Quillon]

We already know attributes will dictate how high you can get with different skills so as long as increasing skills won't grant XP/level up, I'm ok with this. Otherwise its Skyrim retardation; "accidental" easy first levels in skills I'll never use later, increase character level therefore scales up the world Not that it becomes too hard but its annoying to have wasted skills counted as part of my character's power.

If there'll be levelled gear, it will be more annoying than anything else tho... like in ESs, like in DOS2... or W3, tho at least there were enough unlevelled Witcher Sets to ignore all the crap gear.

 

[Danikas]

Also let me point out this, its supposed to have melee weapons like a Katana and its 1st Person ... melee weapons only work in 3rd person because they require very specific animations to not look dumb and they arent cool to see in 1st person.

Citation needed.

 

[Whipped Cream]

Leonard Boyarsky mentioned in one of the Outer Worlds interviews that the reason why they went with a Fallout-style levelling system instead of a Skyrim-style "you level your skills as you use them" system is that the latter type of system is very prone to exploitation.

To that I would add that 1. the latter type of system is also harder to balance and 2. the latter type of system often rewards the player for acting in an illogical manner. E.g. in Skyrim the optimal way to play a melee character is to take as many hits as possible in each minor encounter to increase you armor skill. Which is retarded. Honestly I don't think anyone has ever done the latter type of system well, and as much as I loved The Witcher 3, the levelling system and combat balance in that game was very bad in vanilla, so I'm not super optimistic that CDPR will be the ones who finally "cracks the key".

Edit: Oh fucking Hell ... CRAFTING, fuck this I am OUT.

Dont even get me started on how much I hated the crafting system in The Witcher 3.

 

[hivemind]

the only way to fix levelling systems in action RPGs(aka any and all third or first person ones) is to make away with the failed notion that character skill > player skill and finally realize that character skills should only exist to allow for a broader expression and greater impact of player skill

 

[AwesomeButton]

An open world and a learn by doing system doesn't bode well IMO.

 

[Machocruz]

Cataclysm DDA handles skill-up-by-use well because it's isolated to the skills portion of your character (unless you're using STats through Skills mod) and you don't even have character levels. You can shore up any skills you don't regularly use by finding skill books, which requires some effort. Also the world is much more dangerous, so skilling up alone only does so much for your ability to survive.

 

[volklore]

Learn by use is fine as long as it does not affect the main character level. Here it seems that you have stats gatekeeping how high your learn-by use skill can go (like in morrowind) but those skills do no seem to grant xp like in TES games. The latter is the reason why the TES learn by use system is broken.

 

[toro]

Learn by use is the epitome of meh but Gothic style animation improvements when you advance in skills is nice. As long as it wont have Bethesda style level scaling and the combat is not ultra damagespongy i can live with it.

Gothic was not learn by use.

But it had combat animations that improved with each skill lvl, something that first Witcher game also had.

True but you did not learn skills by doing stuff. You had skill points + money which you spent to increase your skills.

Learn by doing is not the same as spending skill points + money + search for a skill trainer.

Edit: Fuck. I miss Gothic.

Example: I've played Skyrim for a couple of hours and I was able to level Smithing from 0 to 100 in like 20 minutes just by crafting Knives (the cheapest thing you could craft in that game). Then I crafted some Legendary Sword, I went into the wild, killed 2 dragons and uninstalled the game.

 

[toro]

Learn by use is fine as long as it does not affect the main character level. Here it seems that you have stats gatekeeping how high your learn-by use skill can go (like in morrowind) but those skills do no seem to grant xp like in TES games. The latter is the reason why the TES learn by use system is broken.

Learn by use makes the main level irrelevant. Maybe they don't even implement one.

 

[Carrion]

Not very optimistic about the learn-by-use system since it's almost certainly going to exploitable as fuck. The one positive you can take from that snippet is that he mentions reloading and weapon handling animations, which hints that the skill system might be a tad more creative than average. I'm pretty sick of skill systems where your stats only affect accuracy or damage (or unlock some nonsensical superpower perks), when there are tons of different things about firearms that you could tie into character skills. A master gunslinger should not only be more lethal than a novice, but playing one should also feel sufficiently different.

 

[MpuMngwana]

Learn by use makes the main level irrelevant.

Not if all enemies five levels above you magically have 10 times as much health and deal 15 times as much damage as they normally do.

Spoiler

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

The level scaling was necessary in Daggerfall because all the content was generated on the spot. It made no sense to use it once they started handcrafting everything.

Also, look at the soy in that guy's face. No wonder modern level design is shit, look who they are hiring. What happened to my pimple faced nerds of old?

Pimples are typically a side effect of hormone imbalance in males, mainly due to over-concentration of testosterone. Since the big T has now been effectively removed from the male populace through PBB, BPA, Zeranol, Atrazine, and other estro causing additives, this is no longer a functioning demo. Please refer to the FCOH page 34 for more on Agenda 21 rules for society, or any section of 'let's have fun with bio-chemistry.'

 

[Melcar]

So ancient nerds were high T individuals?

 

[Lyric Suite]

The Chad pimpled face nerd vs the virgin soy hipster faggot.