CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[gurugeorge]

Homo.

Hardly a homo, Takemura is simply the kind of Jap who would never go for a non-Jap pussy.

No, the poster is a homo. A man playing a female character = tranny homo.

God forbid I prefer to look at a woman's ass / hear a woman's voice for the 30+ hours I play an RPG. Must make me gay.

You're either retarded or trollin'.

Oh God, this argument.

In 3rd person games, I tend to play more females than males, for the very sound reason above. I have no wish to look at a man's hairy arse for 40 hours, I'd rather watch a lady working her booty, sweating and straining over obstacles, etc.

In 1st person, it's completely irrelevant.

But 1st or 3rd, sometimes when I feel like roleplaying seriously, feel like inhabiting and being that character and making choices appropriate to the synthesized personality in my head for that character, my males tend to be the ones I roleplay seriously more, simply because it's just harder for a male to come up with proper female responses (sometimes you have no idea what a woman would say in response to something). Even more so in MMOs where you have to text gender-appropriate responses.

The long and the short of it is, the degree to which you may be suspected of being a closet tranny for playing female characters depends on whether you're "zoomed out" from the game, as a gamer sitting in a chair playing the game, or "zoomed in" and feeling like that character. IOW, I think you might be a bit suspect if you seriously roleplay females a lot, otherwise it's just a manifestation for the aesthetic appreciation for the female form, or the occasional experiment to see if you can think like a female.

 

[Danikas]

'cept Mafia 1 has one of the best police A.I. and as such, best thrilling police chases in history of vidya... In fact there's a separate sandbox mode in Mafia 1 to go do wild shit when you're done with the story. No such thing in CP2077, 'cause MUH IMMERSIVENESS!

Nope gta 3 from the same year shits all over it with different branches of goverment chasing you at each star lvl (not to mention sandbox is much better because you get op weapons like rocket launcher or tank, all you can get in mafia is thompson smg and lame armoured car). I gotta hand it to you those fucking cops in mafia 1 are pretty smart because they can tell if Im going 5 mph over speed limit and chase me immediately or they have good speed radars nice technology for the 30s. Even nowadays I can go 20 km/h over limit and police wont give a fuck in my country but those 1930s american cops are just that good with speed violation.

What mafia 1 had going for it was much better narrative and visuals than the gta 3 but even reviews at the time pointed out that sandbox is lacking compared to gta.

 

[gurugeorge]

Like I said, Cyberpunk's UI isn't terrible like Swen's infernal toilet chain, but in this regard (among others), it falls short of DX4's thoughtful elegance.

Good points. I guess I was more saying I don't see it as particularly bad, rather than it being particularly good. It's fine. I'd take its inventory and map system over a loooooot over other games, where it's all controller friendly lists and shit. But yeah, far from perfect, fair enough.

High expectations my ass. CDPR is to blame here.

It's a mix. Anyone who expected a New Vegas type game was kidding themselves considering how Witcher 3 was designed. This is a very similar game to that one, and exactly what people should have expected. That said, the lack of story in most side content and little C&C is different from Witcher, and that's where CDPR mislead people.

I think you're right to keep hammering home how similar this is to TW3 in many ways.

The hype was definitely generated by the marketing and you can't really blame customers for getting excited based on the trailers and gameplay videos.

But see the video I linked up-thread from Fudgemuppet, which analyses all the trailers and gameplay videos. It becomes super obvious that CDPR weren't bullshitting, and that they initially DID mean the game to be more of a proper RPG and something of a departure from the TW3 formula, but that that all changed as soon as they got Keanu on board in July of 2018. This is supported by many of the points people have been noticing about quests that seem like they were part of something more extensive, that have been cut off, or placed inappropriately; or the ending, which clearly has the 3 lifepath "flavours" but where AI involvement is awkwardly stuffed into 2 but not into the 3rd.

I think the original design they'd settled on by 2017 probably did have 3 lifepaths with a more general story that wouldn't have required so much cinematics, that tied the Arasaka immortality thing with Streetkid path (probably similar to some of what we now have); the AI/Blackwall/Voodoo Boys Netwach as its own story tied in with the Corpo path (probably also connecting with extensions arising from the Delamain and Peralez and Blue Eyed Man stuff); and the Nomad path tying in more with Militech, the matter of ex-military PTSD and cyberpsychosis (again, a strong theme dotted throughout the game, but not made much of).

The main culprit for the shitshow we've got was coked-up management and coked-up marketing being pleased as punch at Keanu agreeing to work, and deciding that it would be a wonderful idea from the point of view of sales, to stuff Keanu in at every available opportunity in the game, and taking 2 years to bend as many quests in the game to that purpose as they could, instead of finishing the game they had in that period and just having him in a few cameos. That, ultimately, is the cause of them falling back on their familiar TW3 formula - by deciding to have more of Keanu and having to build around that in the 2 years remaining, they cut off the option to make the game more of an intricate RPG as they'd intended, and they only had the time and resources to fall back on their TW3 formula to "fill out" the game at that point.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Keanu reportedly had actually completed recording of the original script and requested for an enlarged role for himself since he felt CBP was a promising project. CDPR was more than happy to oblige since it meant more Keanu in their game. There was a rewrite that more than doubled the number of Keanu's original lines. This would also have had an effect on quests and V's role in the story.

 

[gurugeorge]

Keanu reportedly had actually completed recording of the original script and requested for an enlarged role for himself since he felt CBP was a promising project. CDPR was more than happy to oblige since it meant more Keanu in their game. There was a rewrite that more than doubled the number of Keanu's original lines. This would also have had an effect on quests and V's role in the story.

Agreed, CDPR's management has been noted to have had many failings (skeetering about between concepts and ditching work, relying on crunch time from enthusiastic developers), but the first 3 Witcher games were successful regardless of those failings.

What changed with this is obviously that management and marketing were so starry-eyed with Keanu that they were unable to say "NO!"

"Sorry, Keanu, we love ya, but we have a game and we want to finish it the way it is."

That's what they should have said.

OTOH, having Keanu in probably did result in quite a lot more sales. So who is wrong and who is right?

OTOOH, they would have had those extra sales even if Keanu had just had a few cameos, because nobody was really expecting him to be saturated throughout the game. I certainly didn't expect any more than a few cool cameos when I saw him at E3.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Keanu reportedly had actually completed recording of the original script and requested for an enlarged role for himself since he felt CBP was a promising project. CDPR was more than happy to oblige since it meant more Keanu in their game. There was a rewrite that more than doubled the number of Keanu's original lines. This would also have had an effect on quests and V's role in the story.

Agreed, CDPR's management has been noted to have had many failings (skeetering about between concepts and ditching work, relying on crunch time from enthusiastic developers), but the first 3 Witcher games were successful regardless of those failings.

What changed with this is obviously that management and marketing were so starry-eyed with Keanu that they were unable to say "NO!"

"Sorry, Keanu, we love ya, but we have a game and we want to finish it the way it is."

That's what they should have said. OTOH, having Keanu in probably did result in quite a lot more sales. So who is wrong and who is right?

CDPR Marketing could still have gotten Keanu to do promotion for the game without a rewrite. I doubt he would have minded filming the ads and showing up at conventions.

 

[RapineDel]

Yeah you nailed it. Everything that isn't pre-production stuff, art, or the main storyline is totally disappointing.

Can't agree with this. Some of the most fun I've had in the game is doing side missions with through stealth that give me that open world Deus-Ex feel.

The problem with the gameplay is anything outside stealth feels unsatisfying. If you decide to go in guns blazing then going mission to mission is going to feel like clearing out Ubisoft outposts.

The level design is surprisingly solid and there's some decent skill check options that add variety, it's just a shame not much of it is relevant unless you take the stealth approach.

The game actually would have been substantially better if you played as a pre-determined weakling hacker who went around Night City completing jobs purely through stealth.

 

[Zer0wing]

(seriously, why is this not a thing?)

Pedophile hunting hysteria.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

It's a mix. Anyone who expected a New Vegas type game was kidding themselves considering how Witcher 3 was designed. This is a very similar game to that one, and exactly what people should have expected. That said, the lack of story in most side content and little C&C is different from Witcher, and that's where CDPR mislead people.

Gigs and scanner missions aren't horrible to play, but they are all nearly forgettable. Having played through most of Watson's, the only one I actually remember is the one where you need to retrieve the BD recording of a priest's son who was murdered. And I only remember that one because it has a semi-interesting moment where you get to decide if you kill the guys that produce BD kiddie snuff films. Most others are fairly generic, in terms of storylines.

That said, I agree that stealth + hacking are the only way they are fun. However, they also take way more time that way (save for a few where you can jump in, grab shit, and jump out), so unless the fixer demands stealth, I usually just do some combination, where I start with stealth, then end up mowing everyone down if I get caught.

The game's real problem is that there are too fucking many gigs/scanner missions. Just a massive amount of what is mostly filler content.

 

[Agame]

I mean, even the Witcher 3, their previous game, they kept you from falling in complete boredom by changes in circunstances and places from Velen to Skelliga. It is so obvious for me that they finished the main path (more probably rush it because the game is really missing yet another act and the main quest is short as fuck) then they saw the huge open world and just gone with "let's fill the place with Far Cry outposts" or we dont meet the 2020 deadline. Also, all gangs only have different attires but they arent much different in terms of behavior and strenghts what is crucial to keep combat fresh, gameplay changing with each gang having different strenghts and different enemy types is something so basic that I dunno why isnt there. Man, I was so starved for real content that when I found the Ai gun, I was amused, then I looked in the map and that little thing was surrounded with so much bs.

This is 100% Ubisoft school of design, Farcry series has almost no difficulty curve, the enemies you fight early on are identical to what you fight later. And a massive downgrade from Witcher where you at least have different monster types that require different strategies. Once you have done the Maelstrom base fight in prologue you have pretty much fought every single fight in the game. Except Tigers have smart guns, and Animals have those giant hormone woman that are kind of freaky if they get up in your face...

So much in this game is a straight downgrade from Witcher its just baffling. As if everyone that worked on W3 has left CDPR. (Which is probably true from what I have heard?) Cant be bothered finding quote but someone further up complained about the copious use of text and phone messages to convey information and quests. Regardless if you like W3 or not we can all agree the one thing that really makes it stand out is the presentation: the art assets, aesthetics and use of cut-scenes for all your quest dialogues. The characters live and breath as you see them talk and their movements and mannerisms. The best part of CP2077 is the prologue, because you get this with Jackie and other characters, interactions that give a sense of the world being alive.

And after the prologue the wheels come flying off and most of your interactions with the game world are through reading text dialogues or getting phone messages (text dialogue). Completely eradicating what made Witcher a compelling game to keep playing, cos its not like anyone was playing that game for the combat system or itemization...

The only thing left for Cyberpunk is the aesthetics. CDPR slam dunked this. Night City is an amazing place to cruise around in. But when there is NOTHING in your game but a pretty looking cityscape to ogle at you have completely failed at game design.

Currently this is a very pretty and vapid shell of a game, and I guess we will be stuck wondering what could have been if development had not been completely hijacked and derailed by Keanu.

 

[TT1]

I finished the game, and, as I had nothing to do (I am on holidays) I finished it all over again to watch all endings. I didn't like the way the ending is stablished and I felt a little bit betrayed by it, but ok, at least we close the story arc.

My real playthrough was done using CORPO lifepath and the Aldecados/ Panan branch. I love it and felt it was in line with my game: its a redemption story, from a bastard corp to a guy understanding the world and meeting new people/ freedom. Very nice.

All the other endings are ok, but just two others made sense to me:

Spoiler

- The suicide (very good point. Why bother to try to fix the chip, anyway? Why make more people suffer and sacrifice. Its not worthy.

- The coming back to the body ending. You become a legend, meet Mr. Blue Eyes and goes to space. Feels super rewarding and then you can see how much content was cut from this game. Mansion, space, orbital station, cassino, etc. Crazy.

All the other endings are... meh.

203h, 86% achievements. Now I'll just play it again when all expansions are released and everything is fixed, as I dont feel any pleasure in multiple playthroughs.


And, ah, there is a Multiplayer team, in the Credits. So, its real, it will come in a future.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

The Cyberpsycho missions were fun. They made me feel like Bladerunner and challenged me to do them non-lethal until I realized there is literally just an implant that you can buy that changes all of your weapons to non-lethal. Even fucking blades.

The game is full of weird decisions like that. It has specific weapons that are non-lethal, so it seems like it was more of a major mechanic at some point. However, it also has that chip that just turns everything non-lethal if you want to, and going full lethal doesn't seem to affect the real outcome of most missions at all, although some missions have bonus rewards if you go stealth.

 

[Owlish]

I finished the game, and, as I had nothing to do (I am on holidays) I finished it all over again to watch all endings. I didn't like the way the ending is stablished and I felt a little bit betrayed by it, but ok, at least we close the story arc.

My real playthrough was done using CORPO lifepath and the Aldecados/ Panan branch. I love it and felt it was in line with my game: its a redemption story, from a bastard corp to a guy understanding the world and meeting new people/ freedom. Very nice.

All the other endings are ok, but just two others made sense to me:

Spoiler

- The suicide (very good point. Why bother to try to fix the chip, anyway? Why make more people suffer and sacrifice. Its not worthy.

- The coming back to the body ending. You become a legend, meet Mr. Blue Eyes and goes to space. Feels super rewarding and then you can see how much content was cut from this game. Mansion, space, orbital station, cassino, etc. Crazy.

All the other endings are... meh.

203h, 86% achievements. Now I'll just play it again when all expansions are released and everything is fixed, as I dont feel any pleasure in multiple playthroughs.


And, ah, there is a Multiplayer team, in the Credits. So, its real, it will come in a future.

True kangz do secret ending path of glory with no lame romance.

 

[Turjan]

The Cyberpsycho missions were fun. They made me feel like Bladerunner and challenged me to do them non-lethal until I realized there is literally just an implant that you can buy that changes all of your weapons to non-lethal. Even fucking blades.

Oh, you don't even need that chip. Just make sure that you don't apply a second lethal blow after you downed your target. Yes, it's that anti-climactic.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

The Cyberpsycho missions were fun. They made me feel like Bladerunner and challenged me to do them non-lethal until I realized there is literally just an implant that you can buy that changes all of your weapons to non-lethal. Even fucking blades.

Oh, you don't even need that chip. Just make sure that you don't apply a second lethal blow after you downed your target. Yes, it's that anti-climactic.

It depends on the weapon. If you use blades you can cut people's heads and arms off. I also think headshots will fatally kill most people, if it's the killing blow. I agree, though, that many people end up on the floor not dead, even if you shoot them 100 times.

 

[TT1]

True kangz do secret ending path of glory with no lame romance.

Whatever is a "kangz", yeah sure ok

 

[Turjan]

The Cyberpsycho missions were fun. They made me feel like Bladerunner and challenged me to do them non-lethal until I realized there is literally just an implant that you can buy that changes all of your weapons to non-lethal. Even fucking blades.

Oh, you don't even need that chip. Just make sure that you don't apply a second lethal blow after you downed your target. Yes, it's that anti-climactic.

It depends on the weapon. If you use blades you can cut people's heads and arms off. I also think headshots will fatally kill most people, if it's the killing blow. I agree, though, that many people end up on the floor not dead, even if you shoot them 100 times.

I specifically meant the cyberpsychos. The last one, I downed with a sniper rifle after a longer fight, and the damage said something like 17,000 (was from relatively close). He still lived.

I can see the point with bladed weapons, although there, the blunt types seem to do more damage on average, anyway.

 

[KK1001]

I agree with what a lot of people have said, but I still think the number 1 impediment to fun in this game is the lackluster combat AI. Modders will make this a substantially better game.

Fixed combat AI + actually hand crafted cyberpsycho behavior would really go a long, long way towards making the game good. I want more enemy variety, but what's in the game is already broken so that's probably a bridge too far.

 

[Owlish]

Whatever is a "kangz", yeah sure ok

 

[Zer0wing]

'cept Mafia 1 has one of the best police A.I. and as such, best thrilling police chases in history of vidya... In fact there's a separate sandbox mode in Mafia 1 to go do wild shit when you're done with the story. No such thing in CP2077, 'cause MUH IMMERSIVENESS!

Nope gta 3 from the same year shits all over it with different branches of goverment chasing you at each star lvl (not to mention sandbox is much better because you get op weapons like rocket launcher or tank, all you can get in mafia is thompson smg and lame armoured car). I gotta hand it to you those fucking cops in mafia 1 are pretty smart because they can tell if Im going 5 mph over speed limit and chase me immediately or they have good speed radars nice technology for the 30s. Even nowadays I can go 20 km/h over limit and police wont give a fuck in my country but those 1930s american cops are just that good with speed violation.

What mafia 1 had going for it was much better narrative and visuals than the gta 3 but even reviews at the time pointed out that sandbox is lacking compared to gta.

Mafia 1 is released in 2002
Different tiers of pigs don't make them much smarter in GTA3, they all have the same arcadey vehicle AI that kamikazes into you, which is easy to trick into bumping each other, fly into space, the usual GTA stuff. Only federals have heavier metal in their disposal. Also, I don't recall them using guns at all.

 

[DalekFlay]

The main culprit for the shitshow we've got was coked-up management and coked-up marketing being pleased as punch at Keanu agreeing to work, and deciding that it would be a wonderful idea from the point of view of sales, to stuff Keanu in at every available opportunity in the game, and taking 2 years to bend as many quests in the game to that purpose as they could, instead of finishing the game they had in that period and just having him in a few cameos. That, ultimately, is the cause of them falling back on their familiar TW3 formula - by deciding to have more of Keanu and having to build around that in the 2 years remaining, they cut off the option to make the game more of an intricate RPG as they'd intended, and they only had the time and resources to fall back on their TW3 formula to "fill out" the game at that point.

Yeah. I mean every game gets features cut as they develop it, so they can get it out the door. That's happening right now with Bloodlines 2, since the original team wasn't finishing it they hired an Ubisoft guy to come in and cut stuff to get the thing released. I don't think that's abnormal or even bad necessarily, as long as the end product still feels like a good and complete game. The problem with Cyberpunk is, of course, that it doesn't quite come together as a finished product. It feels like a game that was cut down from the original lofty ambitions it had so it could actually come out in 2020, it's too obvious and detrimental to the experience. You have to make those cuts and tie all the knots without the consumer feeling like something's missing, and they failed to do that.

I say this as someone who actually quite enjoys the game, because I love the setting and I love Deus Ex stealthy infiltration style gameplay. The game truly excels at both those things, IMO. It just fails at a bunch of stuff around them, and people (rightly) expected way more.

 

[wyes gull]

Anyone find any missions that aren't named after songs? I thought they all were supposed to be until I ran across a gig called "Bring me the head of Gustavo Orta", a twist on Peckinpah's "Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia". Disappointing gig, too. Self-aware rip off of Romeo & Juliet where you can only go in and remove Capulet. Or was it the other one? Whatever.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

People really did have too high expectations. The marketing worked but set CDPR up to fail - of course, their own executive mismanagement didn't help. People created an impossible game (the best parts of GTA + Deus Ex + Dishonored + FO:NV + Mass Effect + TW3) in their heads.

asking for a sequel to "no man's sky" and expecting a videogame is "having high expectations". expectations for cp77 were just in line with promises.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

a twist on Peckinpah's "Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia"

Close but no cigar.

 

[502]

Gentlemen, can you imagine a complete, polished, refined, hyper-realistic life sim that uses 2020's rules with Vávra and CDPR in Cyberpunk universe?

Spoiler

Because I fucking can't.