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People News Chris Avellone grows a pair and fights back against being cancelled

Absinthe

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And MCA will win this case.

How, tho? IIRC, libel is almost impossible to prove in a Kwan court, and the accuser is pretty much just wasting his time and money 99% of the time.

Seriously, he'd have a better shot of suing that what's-her-face-cunt for sexually assaulting him and winning than he has of suing her for libel and winning.
Because this originated as twitter drama, and pretty much everything is documented. Chris Avellone also has genuine damages (in the form of workplace firings) to point to for the defamation of character suit. When you have concrete damages to put on your case and strong documentation of libelous statements, how they are knowingly false statements, how the defendants acted with deliberate malice, and how those statements led to those damages, you have a much stronger case than the average guy who is pissed off because people said terrible, defamatory things about him and it made him a local social pariah and he wanted to sue them in a court of law. It's hard to win a case on emotional damages alone, especially when it's hard to prove who said what, how much of it is factually untrue, and whether they should've known better than to say that, but that is not the case here.
 
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Lambach

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When you have concrete damages to put on your case and strong documentation of libelous statements, how they are knowingly false statements, how the defendants acted with deliberate malice, and how those statements led to those damages, you have a much stronger case than the average guy

All of this is up to a very arbitrary deliberation of whichever Judge gets this case. All of this is very much open to interpretation.

For example, "knowingly false statements". Who says these statements were knowingly false? They might have simply been factually false, but Kwan courts have abandoned even the vaguest pretense of acquiring facts a long time ago, and they run on pure emotion alone.

The person making these statements might have genuinely believed they were true, ergo they weren't knowingly false, ergo, they are not guilty of libel, they were simply a victim of circumstance and toxic evil white male patriarchy.

Please feel free to follow this case to its conclusion and you'll see that I'll be proven correct, as I always am.
 

Saark

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There's certainly a chance that he will lose the case. But to me it seems unlikely just based on what needs to be proven for a defamation suit in the US.

1) You need to be able to prove that a statement that was purported as fact was indeed false.
This is absolutely the case here. The original accusatory statement was made on twitter, and all the contradictory statement were also made on twitter. It will be difficult for a defense attorney to claim that while the original statement was meant to "inform" public opinion (especially with her also being thankful for Avellones firing on twitter), that the other posts were just inane ramblings that were not meant as fact. It is very obvious, thanks to the extensive post history of Karissa, that she is not only a sociopath, but also lied about a variety of statements after the fact. A competent defense attorney could claim that recollection of events back then was clouded due to alcohol and that her later statements are therefore to be considered more accurate, but that can easily be disputed by witness testimony confirming most of her original postings. It would be weird if she remembered and tweeted about everything accurately, EXCEPT how she felt about the evening with Chris.

2) You need evidence of said person communicating or publicizing the false statement from 1) to a third party.
This one is pretty obvious. She did so, not only to "inform" people about Chris, but also thanked people on numerous occasions that he did in fact get fired.

3) You need to prove that the falsified statements were due to negligence or malice.
This is where you have to worry about whether Chris actually is a public figure or not. If he is, then negligence is not enough. Proving malice is difficult, but not impossible, especially with how off the rails Karissa is on twitter. You just know that she's been even worse than that in private, and it seems to me, based on Chris medium post, that he still has access to the correspondence from when he and Jackie were dating. She clearly threatened to do 'something' and as such it may not be as difficult to prove malicious intent. Still, this one is the part that might trip Chris and his lawyers up, unless they have a smoking gun.

4) You need to prove that there were damages or harm caused by those statements.
You would literally just need a signed affidavit by one of the companies that fired Chris, that it was due to the allegations in 1) that he was let go. Even without that, the correlation is pretty clear.


Regardless of whether they can actually prove malice or not, it is likely that any sane judge will realize that the situation at hand is more than just Chris trying to get some money out of this. The defenses case essentially rests on claiming that Karissa did not understand the repercussions of her actions and how her false claims would affect Chris. But she's been acting like a rabid animal for years on twitter. Remember that she deleted 60.000 tweets in 8years. That is ~20tweets a day. Every day. That is an INSANE amount of tweets to comb through, and plenty of evidence of her spouting inane and dumb shit will be found in these - sidenote, I want to pity whatever paralegal was asked by the actual counsel to go through each and everyone of these, using slow as fuck archive websites, to find the most incriminating ones and put them into the suit. David Cernats compiled list he used in the initial video must've been a huge help for this purpose alone). Chris most likely has access to private correspondence, witness testimony of people supporting his side as well as the big unknown - Jackie. This suit becomes a lot harder to lose if Chris initial apologetic stance made her more sympathetic to his side. If it was in fact a concerted attack on Chris person, tripping up one or two of the other "accusers" and showing private correspondence and turning just one of them might unravel the entire thing.

But that is treading into "what if" and conspiracy territory and I'd rather not do that. Chris is right in asking victims to speak up more in general, by the way, as the more information and details are being presented, the more likely it is for people to believe them. A short "this dude raped me" shouldn't cut it, and giving details for people to weigh in and support (or speak up against) the statements is the only way the actual truth can come out.


tl;dr: If a decent Judge gets this case, it should be fairly easy to prove all of the points needed for a defamation/libel case to be made. If he doesn't, even a liberal left-leaning judge with a hateboner for CIS-gendered white males will have a hard time supporting someone who is as off the rails sociopathic as Karissa was on twitter. It doesn't matter how she acts in court, Chris attorneys have 8 years worth of 20 tweets a day to characterize Karissa. The way I see it, a defense attorney will have a hard time refuting any of this except for the "malicious intent" and we simply don't know enough about their private correspondence or what witnesses Chris referred to in his medium blogpost to understand whether he has a hard time ahead of him, or went into this knowing full well that Karissa is fucked - and not in the way she clearly wanted to be while he was shtupping her friend.

Edit: Witnesses in this case does not mean that they would have to come out and straightup say "he did not assault her". Witnesses supporting his side could be something as simple as a hotel employee confirming that the room Karissa and her roommate were sleeping in only has 1 bed (making it easy to refute some of her earlier statements about him being inside her room without the roommate noticing), or people who were around during the other incident that could simply say "I did not see Chris Avellone touching her indecently". The goal of Chris lawyers is to point Chris as an upstanding citizen who has no previous record of misconduct, defusing the claims that were obviously false, potentially getting one of these witnesses on his side in order to cut a deal with them, while portraying Karissa as a vindictive jealous sociopath. As said before, if witnesses can claim that most of the statements during the 2 nights in question were accurate, there is no reason to believe that the ones about Chris are not. Proving that is easier than what happened between the two of them in private. Thankfully she essentially logged every minute of her private life in detail on twitter. Fucking retarded.

Edit 2: Most of the issues these twitter "lawyers" have with the suit, are due to the fact that Chris and his lawyers are using the legal system as intended. They filed the suit in a thorough manner (citing >100 defendants in order to not bring up additional ones mid-hearing), citing ~90 pages of evidence in order for opposing counsel to be able to properly prepare for it, filing it where Chris actually resides, and not trying to get around the need to prove malice by straight up claiming that Chris is a public figure. Not doing any of these would just drag out the case, potentially create issues for the defense and while any of those are technically legal ways of stacking the deck in Chris favor, they're so blatantly obvious that most Judges will build a bias against the legal team trying to pull these kinda tricks unless they have actual reason to do so. The suit is so "in your face" straightforward, that it leaves the defense with very little room to file for dismissal, which is exactly what Chris wants/needs. Based on Karissas tweeting history, having this thing land in actual court is not something her attorney would hope for. It also happens to be what most of these 30y something lawyers would want, as they grew up in the tv-show school of lawyering where you never wanna go to court unless you absolutely have to, instead trying to find ways to dismiss cases or come to agreements outside of court to avoid a public hearing. They can't fathom the idea that someone would actually WANT to have a judge preside over their claim.
 
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1.) There was very few evidence brought to the public, just supposed witnesses. The only evidence brought forth of Avellone's weird behavior was the message screencap. Despite there not being much evidence and the allegations being relatively empty, Avellone chose not to defend himself, and, as I said one hundred times, this is seen as an admission of guilt in any western judicial or societal system, whether you like it or not. I already posted an analogy to evidence this before, but 2 people chose to hilariously misinterpret it and pivot instead of engaging with it honestly.
Looking forward to the part where the judge declares that chris not defending himself on twitter from accusations made on twitter counts as an admission of guilt, then.
 

Absinthe

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When you have concrete damages to put on your case and strong documentation of libelous statements, how they are knowingly false statements, how the defendants acted with deliberate malice, and how those statements led to those damages, you have a much stronger case than the average guy

All of this is up to a very arbitrary deliberation of whichever Judge gets this case. All of this is very much open to interpretation.

For example, "knowingly false statements". Who says these statements were knowingly false? They might have simply been factually false, but Kwan courts have abandoned even the vaguest pretense of acquiring facts a long time ago, and they run on pure emotion alone.

The person making these statements might have genuinely believed they were true, ergo they weren't knowingly false, ergo, they are not guilty of libel, they were simply a victim of circumstance and toxic evil white male patriarchy.

Please feel free to follow this case to its conclusion and you'll see that I'll be proven correct, as I always am.
Nope, you're wrong. Look, when you have Karissa saying shit like "I just DONT have [an abuse story of] my own" (link) in 2014 and later claims abuse in 2012 and 2013, then proving that they are factually false also makes it clear they are knowingly false. This is far from the only evidence that Karissa knew at the time that Avellone did not misbehave and chose to deliberately misremember events to paint him in the worst light afterwards. Twitter documentation being what it is, Karissa's own take on the events from the past can be held against her when her accounts of events years later tells a story of him as an abusive sexual predator, which also means you have clear evidence of statements being knowingly false because in the past she demonstrated knowledge of what was true and changed her story afterwards.
 

koyota

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as well as the big unknown - Jackie. This suit becomes a lot harder to lose if Chris initial apologetic stance made her more sympathetic to his side. If it was in fact a concerted attack on Chris person, tripping up one or two of the other "accusers" and showing private correspondence and turning just one of them might unravel the entire thing.

I`ll give you a brofist, but you are dreaming if you think Jackie is ever going to switch to defending The Avellone.
 

Lambach

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Nope, you're wrong. Look, when you have Karissa saying shit like "I just DONT have [an abuse story of] my own" (link) in 2014 and later claims abuse in 2012 and 2013, then proving that they are factually false also makes it clear they are knowingly false.

Bruh, you really are that naive, huh? Eyes full of stars and stripes and that kind of thing?

Lemme dispel the illusion: If this case gets handed to some Judge that's sympathetic to her case, all of this Twitter "evidence" will be promptly dismissed for some pseudo-legal reason or another. And there's a 99% chance that it will be handed to a Judge like that, given that Chris chose to sue in California.

There's absolutely no goddamn way in hell there are going to be any impartial arbiters of this, not in today's cultural (and geographic) climate, and you can bet both your dick and balls that in California, the Judge will be on Karissa's side, through and through.
 
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Monkey Baron

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There's no chance anti-SLAPP motion will be granted. I doubt that Chris' attorneys (who don't seem to be fond of posting pictures of their disgusting torsos to Twitter) who work at a firm specializing in entertainment law would agree to represent him if that were the case. These are Californian lawyers that are versed in defamation suits. I bet you all of the money in Obsidian's legal fund that Chris' lawyers have already prepared a response to the inevitable anti-SLAPP.

Going over the case, looks like Chris probably did undo Karissa's pants since it states that they engaged in "heavy-petting." I'm pretty surprised by this as this was omitted in Karissa's original accusation and only discussed in the Kotaku interview she had so I assumed it was said during a manic episode.

Given this photo that Chris kindly shared with us, I find this quote quite egregious.


Karissa said:
Other nights, I watched him do the same to- -other girls, some of whom looked FAR younger than me in my late 20s (at the time, and I have always looked young for my age).

1*2bT9xxcPtQrrSOZ0IhSQFw.jpeg
 

mastroego

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Nope, you're wrong. Look, when you have Karissa saying shit like "I just DONT have [an abuse story of] my own" (link) in 2014 and later claims abuse in 2012 and 2013, then proving that they are factually false also makes it clear they are knowingly false.

Bruh, you really are that naive, huh? Eyes full of stars and stripes and that kind of thing?

Lemme dispel the illusion: If this case gets handed to some Judge that's sympathetic to her case, all of this Twitter "evidence" will be promptly dismissed for some pseudo-legal reason or another. And there's a 99% chance that it will be handed to a Judge like that, given that Christ chose to sue in California.
Still, one has to go down fighting.
 

ERYFKRAD

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There's no chance anti-SLAPP motion will be granted. I doubt that Chris' attorneys (who don't seem to be fond of posting pictures of their disgusting torsos to Twitter) who work at a firm specializing in entertainment law would agree to represent him if that were the case. These are Californian lawyers that are versed in defamation suits. I bet you all of the money in Obsidian's legal fund that Chris' lawyers have already prepared a response to the inevitable anti-SLAPP.

Going over the case, looks like Chris probably did undo Karissa's pants since it states that they engaged in "heavy-petting." I'm pretty surprised by this as this was omitted in Karissa's original accusation and only discussed in the Kotaku interview she had so I assumed it was said during a manic episode.

Given this photo that Chris kindly shared with us, I find this quote quite egregious.


Karissa said:
Other nights, I watched him do the same to- -other girls, some of whom looked FAR younger than me in my late 20s (at the time, and I have always looked young for my age).

1*2bT9xxcPtQrrSOZ0IhSQFw.jpeg
That, or she's pretty old.
 

Whimper

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Karissa said:
Other nights, I watched him do the same to- -other girls, some of whom looked FAR younger than me in my late 20s (at the time, and I have always looked young for my age).

1*2bT9xxcPtQrrSOZ0IhSQFw.jpeg
[/QUOTE]
What a beautiful couple, a match made in heaven. I think they deserve each other.
 

Saark

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I`ll give you a brofist, but you are dreaming if you think Jackie is ever going to switch to defending The Avellone.
Jackie (not to be confused with Jacqui) never weighed in on the allegations, or confirmed or even gave credence to the claims made against him. It's clear she cared about him when they stopped seeing each other (based on his medium post and her still tweeting at him after the fact) and she could've easily supported her friends during last years events. But she didn't. Not saying she will come out in full support, but she strikes me as a more reasonable person than the rest of them, and any decent human being would be repulsed by what happened to Chris. And decent human beings didn't have an on-and-off non-exclusive relationship with the people that got fucked over this hard by vindictive jealous "girlfriends". You overestimate the strength of the bond of women "friend"ships.
 

Monkey Baron

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I`ll give you a brofist, but you are dreaming if you think Jackie is ever going to switch to defending The Avellone.
Jackie never weighed in on the allegations, or confirmed or even gave credence to the claims made against him. It's clear she cared about him when they stopped seeing each other (based on his medium post and her still tweeting at him after the fact) and she could've easily supported her friends during last years events. But she didn't. Not saying she will come out in full support, but she strikes me as a more reasonable person than the rest of them, and any decent human being would be repulsed by what happened to Chris. And decent human beings didn't have an on-and-off non-exclusive relationship with the people that got fucked over this hard by vindictive jealous "girlfriends". You overestimate the strength of the bond of women "friend"ships.

Her twitlonger shows that she wasn't happy with his response at all, especially with him outing her. I don't think she would ever support Chris or even be neutral.
 

Absinthe

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Nope, you're wrong. Look, when you have Karissa saying shit like "I just DONT have [an abuse story of] my own" (link) in 2014 and later claims abuse in 2012 and 2013, then proving that they are factually false also makes it clear they are knowingly false.

Bruh, you really are that naive, huh? Eyes full of stars and stripes and that kind of thing?

Lemme dispel the illusion: If this case gets handed to some Judge that's sympathetic to her case, all of this Twitter "evidence" will be promptly dismissed for some pseudo-legal reason or another. And there's a 99% chance that it will be handed to a Judge like that, given that Christ chose to sue in California.
Dude, at this stage you're acting like a drowning man trying to cling to a piece of driftwood, trying to continue insisting you're right despite obvious evidence to the contrary by now insisting it will be insane judges who are going to ruin Chris Avellone's case simply because it's California (with 99% certainty, honest!). Sure, if the judge is thoroughly unprofessional and biased, (s)he can throw out evidence for no real reason and proceed to ruin Chris Avellone's case, but making a mockery of the legal process is not good for a judge's career and real life is not the same as internet memes about California insist, and even then Avellone wouldn't be without recourse. It would just make his legal proceedings more tortuous.

Learn to take a step back and accept when you're wrong.
 

Saark

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Her twitlonger shows that she wasn't happy with his response at all, especially with him outing her. I don't think she would ever support Chris or even be neutral.
She was unhappy with him mentioning/including her, yes. But Chris was under the assumption that this accusation was based on the bad break-up Jackie and him had (and Karissa brought it up first). In that case it is more than understandable for him to include her (potentially looking for support). She may not have given him that, but she also didn't support her friend. She just complained, like women like to do, that he didnt act a certain way that she expected him to. Happens all the time. But there's no malice in what she wrote other than a very non-specific and non-supportive "if someone asks you to not do something, then maybe dont do it". There's no judgement there, its common sense. Her twitlonger is miles away from what most of these allegations on twitter look like, she's not even naming him in it, or accusing him of bad behavior towards her. No "i believe my friend", no "he was a weirdo when we were together already".

This is not at all indicative of the "sisterhood" support you've seen all over twitter in these cases, and it is why I am fairly certain that she holds no ill will (or very little, for a woman anyway) towards Chris. Her entire statement reads as if she wanted nothing to do with it. Obviously that is still a long way from helping him with his case, but if she didn't know that Karissa was the reason they broke up until now, things might look very different.
 
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Ibn Sina

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A little too late for growing a pair. Imagine being cancelled because you begged some roastie to come over, so you can lick her pussy. Absolutely cuck move and disgusting. Would you lick a pussy of a whore or a girl you just picked from the bar? Of course not. But because he is a degenerate cuck, what happened happened.

Compare him to my ex boss, an old british guy, quite rich and constantly takes trips from Dubai to seychelles to fuck models. He got booted off the company because sent a text to an employee telling her word by word : Come to my office and suck my LITERAL THIRD LEG. Now that is chad.
 

Lambach

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Dude, at this stage you're acting like a drowning man trying to cling to a piece of driftwood, trying to continue insisting you're right despite obvious evidence to the contrary by now insisting it will be insane judges who are going to ruin Chris Avellone's case simply because it's California (with 99% certainty, honest!).

You're the one arguing that 2 irrelevant posts on some social network will be enough for Chris to win the type of case that has historically been nigh-unwinnable even for people with mountains more worth of evidence than him, and I'm the one clinging to driftwood? :lol:

Alright, if you say so. Be sure to check back in this thread 6-12 months from now, or however long the case will take. I'll be here, gloating about being right (again), and you'll be coming up with some brain-dead excuses as to why it didn't pan out the way it did in your fantasies.
 

Whimper

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It'll just end up being settled out of court and both parties will imply that they are satisfied with the results but don't wish to discuss it further.
 

Sentinel

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1.) There was very few evidence brought to the public, just supposed witnesses. The only evidence brought forth of Avellone's weird behavior was the message screencap. Despite there not being much evidence and the allegations being relatively empty, Avellone chose not to defend himself, and, as I said one hundred times, this is seen as an admission of guilt in any western judicial or societal system, whether you like it or not. I already posted an analogy to evidence this before, but 2 people chose to hilariously misinterpret it and pivot instead of engaging with it honestly.
Looking forward to the part where the judge declares that chris not defending himself on twitter from accusations made on twitter counts as an admission of guilt, then.
That is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. Again, I will repeat, I'm talking specifically about the perception of the case during the 2 days following the allegation. The evidence that came about later is irrelevant because it was not avaialble at the time.
You can 100% be sure that the defense will bring that up though.
 

Eli_Havelock

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1.) There was very few evidence brought to the public, just supposed witnesses. The only evidence brought forth of Avellone's weird behavior was the message screencap. Despite there not being much evidence and the allegations being relatively empty, Avellone chose not to defend himself, and, as I said one hundred times, this is seen as an admission of guilt in any western judicial or societal system, whether you like it or not. I already posted an analogy to evidence this before, but 2 people chose to hilariously misinterpret it and pivot instead of engaging with it honestly.
Looking forward to the part where the judge declares that chris not defending himself on twitter from accusations made on twitter counts as an admission of guilt, then.
That is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. Again, I will repeat, I'm talking specifically about the perception of the case during the 2 days following the allegation. The evidence that came about later is irrelevant because it was not avaialble at the time.
You can 100% be sure that the defense will bring that up though.

Yes, we know what you've been trying to say. "Muh court of public opinion standard is legit jurisprudence!" Well, that and everything else you've been absolutely wrong about, projecting your tribal shit on others.
 

passerby

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You guys are missing the point.

The problem is that she never really claimed anything beyond "I think Chris is a creep who was awkwardly hitting on me and other women on conventions and I wish there was no place for creeps like him in this industry".
While everyone in the industry went "Well then we better cancel Chris, since some bottom feeder female cospalyers think he is a creep".

Honestly, no sane judge even from before the clownworld would held her legally responsible for actions of the industry professionals that choose to cancel Chris for no reason, let alone current day Callifornian judges.

Welcome to the clownworld.
 
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