Gothic Chronicles Of Myrtana: Archolos mod for Gothic 2

[Tacgnol]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

Damn that's some stealthy C&C.

 

[Sjukob]

I know this is pretty old but:

LP costs for learning magic circles are just insane:

1st circle - 20 points
2nd circle - 30 points
3rd circle - 40 points
4th circle - 50 points

What the actual fuck is this?!

Why is that insane exactly? Compare this to weapon skill costs:

from 10% to 30%: 20 points
from 30% to 60%: 60 points
from 60% to 90%: 90 points
from 90% to 100%: 40 points

That's 210 points total. Maybe as low as 170 if you end up using a weapon that gives a +10 bonus. Total cost of all circles is 140 and there's no rune crafting so you can dump rest in mana just like weapon users would dump into STR and/or DEX. Seems to me like pure mages have it a lot cheaper in terms of LPs.

Are you not going to train weapon skills as a mage at all? How are you going to kill enemies till you are strong enough to afford fighting with spells primarily? Is it even possible to beat a game like that? Must be some outright sadistic shit if you ask me.

I am currently in chapter 5, level 43 here are the numbers without any gear, you get stripped off of it in the very beggining of the chapter and I haven't got past that part yet. I can say it's not as bad as I initially thought, but it still is pretty shit.

The thing is, you are looking at the complete picture of a fully developed character, not at what it takes to get there. You see, melee users (can't speak for marksmen, the last time I played ranged build in Gothic was many years ago) have a very smooth progression in comparison to the mages - they slowly but surely accumulate power and kill things faster and faster as they level up. You are not really required to go to obscure places and look for specific items to further develop your character. This is not the case with mages, you have to hunt down books and runes, it's not something terrible, but it's more nuanced then you might think, let me explain.

The hard part about about acquiring books and runes isn't about knowing where they are, but knowing how to get them. For a melee user becoming stronger is straight forward: pump weapon skill, pump strength and equip the strongest weapon you can. Due to how melee damage scales with strength and generally dumb AI, you don't even have to go out of your way to hunt for rare weapons, you will do just fine if you just pick whatever you can find on your way. But when it comes to magic various bullshit starts blocking your way:

1. Ok, I think I feel like learning the first circle of magic, but where do I get the books? Ok, I found one during a quest, good thing it didn't really require me to fight anything scary. Oh, so to get another book I have to fight through a bunch of animals and loot it from abandonned house? Ok, I guess I will spend my LPs on training some melee skills first, gotta get past those damn monsters somehow. What's that? Are magic staves 2h only? Well fuck, guess I'm locked into a shitty animation set with awfully long recovery times now. Don't know wether I'll be able to afford to train my strength enough to equip the all around better one handed weapons, so better be safe than sorry;
2. So there's a rune that I feel might make my life easier in the future, but to pick it up I have to get past a shadowbeast somehow. Oh and I barely have any gold with me, I guess if I learn some hunting skills then I might be able to sell various trophies to merchants and make some gold in the process, may be I'll even be able to sneak past that abomination and get the rune I want. I don't know which hunting skills are truly useful, so I better learn them all, they don't seem to be expensive LP wise anyway, the more the merrier, right?;
3. Ok, training mana costs too much LP and I still have to save some to learn the next magic circle. But look, I have a lot of rare herbs in my inventory, may be I can get a big boost to my stats if I learn how to make permanent potions. Holy shit, I need 60 LPs to do that, that's more than I have right now and I haven't been training for the last few levels at all, this better be worth it (it totally is) or else I'm screwed;
4. Shit, my fighting skills are so bad at the moment, I've spent all of my LPs on other things and I don't have anything left to spare. Getting better gear requires me to advance the plot and that requires me to kill several tough opponents, I have to come up with something... Right, the scrolls, but I have to learn how to transcribe them first, because powerful ones are rarely found in the world and getting them from merchants is just too expensive, guess I have to find a way to get some LPs to finally fucking learn this skill;

Do you get the idea? What I mean to say is that mage is extremely LP starved till level 25 or so, because for him the requirements to become a strong character are extremely frontloaded. Can't travel the island without developing melee skills, can't make money without learning the trade first, can't afford to cast decent spell without learning master alchemy, because mana requirements can not be reasonable achieved with just gear and training, can't get better gear or learn next magic circle without going to the next chapter, etc. But when you get past that, you turn into a god that AOE nukes everything in sight and doesn't care about resource management almost instantly. A mage goes from a piss stained, AIDS ridden, dystrophic hobo to a divinity level with basically nothing in between, it's just plain garbage in comparison to a smooth progression that melee users experience, and the constant gatekeeping is just plain annoying, I don't even understand why it's there, melee chads become supermen in chapter 2 already, why do mages have to endure till chapter 4?

Overall, it's not as bad as it might seem, it's certainly much better than NoTR, but it still is pretty shit overall.

 

[Fargus]

You can just go further inside the cave and shoot him with a crossbow. He can't follow you there.

Do crossbows work on trolls? They're immune to all ranged in vanilla. Couldn't even dent one with the 65 dmg red bow and 75 DEX. Does the armor piercing bonus on crossbows change that?

If so, STR/DEX hybrid with just enough STR to use crossbows and rest to DEX may be superior to bows even for a dedicated ranged build.

Worked for me. Just took 200 bolts or something.

 

[Riddler]

You can just go further inside the cave and shoot him with a crossbow. He can't follow you there.

Do crossbows work on trolls? They're immune to all ranged in vanilla. Couldn't even dent one with the 65 dmg red bow and 75 DEX. Does the armor piercing bonus on crossbows change that?

If so, STR/DEX hybrid with just enough STR to use crossbows and rest to DEX may be superior to bows even for a dedicated ranged build.

Worked for me. Just took 200 bolts or something.

Now, I haven't played the mod yet but have they fixed trolls as to not be trivial to defeat in melee?

 

[Sjukob]

Also, I cannot begin to tell you how much better guard quests are. Seriously, if you plan to play once guard is the superior choice.

Roderich is an insufferable stuck up prick, though. I can not understand how can anybody stand him for more than 5 seconds. On the other hand, Lorenzo is an adorable jew, I would beat him up on the daily basis if he wasn't immortal. Not because I hate him or anything, it's just something that he desperately needs.

I thought I'd hate Lorenzo but he actually seemed like a pretty decent guy. Also surprisingly principled for the head of a trade organisation. End game spoilers regarding him/merchant guild.

Spoiler

Lorenzo refuses to work with Volker at the end and is killed for his troubles, despite being offered a very lucrative position in Volker's new regime.

He also supports Marvin throughout despite his guild trackers being pretty useless at actually finding your brother. He treats Marvin with respect throughout and promises you high position before his death.

Re: Roderich

Spoiler

Spineless cuck that sends you to the valley of mines despite the great service you've done the city/island. Muh political pressure.

Yeah, I didn't just call Lorenzo an adorable jew for no reason. He's very entertaining when he rages, did you try telling him that he's useless in chapter 4, when you come back from Wolf's Den and the royal emissary arrives? I have the entire dialogue captured.

Spoiler

Roderich is an obvious brainwashed "no fun allowed" government doll, no wonder he's the captain of the guard.

 

[Sjukob]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

 

[Fargus]

You can just go further inside the cave and shoot him with a crossbow. He can't follow you there.

Do crossbows work on trolls? They're immune to all ranged in vanilla. Couldn't even dent one with the 65 dmg red bow and 75 DEX. Does the armor piercing bonus on crossbows change that?

If so, STR/DEX hybrid with just enough STR to use crossbows and rest to DEX may be superior to bows even for a dedicated ranged build.

Worked for me. Just took 200 bolts or something.

Now, I haven't played the mod yet but have they fixed trolls as to not be trivial to defeat in melee?

Can't say they did. You can dodge their attacks in time and you'll be good, but still need a good weapon unless you want it to take ages. In late game fighting anything becomes trivial, but that's just Gothic in general.

They've made some of the trolls being able to

Spoiler

run

I spoilered it because shit was hilarious and you have to see it for yourself.

Go play it now!

 

[Fargus]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

 

[Tacgnol]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

The guy with the axe? He attacked me outright. Is there a way of calming him down?

 

[Sjukob]

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

I see now, I missed that cave entirely in chapter 3. I've only got inside in chapter 4 and the guy has already died by that point.

 

[Fargus]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

The guy with the axe? He attacked me outright. Is there a way of calming him down?

You need to beat him once. He attacks you again and dies if you take his gangsta jewel box from him. Just leave it on the ground when he is beaten.

 

[Tacgnol]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

The guy with the axe? He attacked me outright. Is there a way of calming him down?

You need to beat him once. He attacks you and dies if you take his gangsta jewel box from him. Just leave it on the ground when he is beaten.

So you just let him keep the box?

Can you talk to him again later?

 

[Fargus]

Spoiler

Lorenzo can survive if you send Javad to the city in CH3

I can't even remember who that is.

Javad? A southern nigger in Ch3 that took a box of gemstones. You can find him in the swamps when Cortez asks you to retrieve some valuables.

The guy with the axe? He attacked me outright. Is there a way of calming him down?

You need to beat him once. He attacks you and dies if you take his gangsta jewel box from him. Just leave it on the ground when he is beaten.

So you just let him keep the box?

Can you talk to him again later?

Yes. Just beat him once, don't take the box and you can talk to him.

 

[Zariusz]

Can we save Markus in Vardhal?

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

Yes. Just beat him once, don't take the box and you can talk to him.

*Not* loot an NPC after a beatdown? Unpossible.

 

[PrK]

You can just go further inside the cave and shoot him with a crossbow. He can't follow you there.

Do crossbows work on trolls? They're immune to all ranged in vanilla. Couldn't even dent one with the 65 dmg red bow and 75 DEX. Does the armor piercing bonus on crossbows change that?

If so, STR/DEX hybrid with just enough STR to use crossbows and rest to DEX may be superior to bows even for a dedicated ranged build.

Crossbows are insane, lvl 37, end of ch4, I 3-shot grown trolls. They certainly aren't immune but I don't know the protection values. With the Golden Crossbow and 135 DEX (assuming the damage formula is the same as in G2) I do 190 + 135 - arrow protection (+50 penetration) = 325 damage to something with 50 arrow protection. I don't know if the the penetration is wasted if the enemy has less armour than that.

 

[Zariusz]

FUCKING FINALLY!!!
After 19-20 days and almost 130 hours i finished this game, damn that was amazing. I dont even remember when was the last time when i was playing something this good. I spent most of my free time playing this, finally i can take care of my duties like a normal human being should.

Spoiler

Now i want to go back to Gothic 1

 

[Sjukob]

The key to that door is just lying around inside that cave somewhere, make sure to sweep the area with telekinesis and check all the sarcophagi

Yeah, but this door is part of an ARG. Key is to the right of the chamber with the demon.

Thanks, I found it.

Keep visiting him and selling him things, it might not happen till chapter 5 or something.

Turns out he gives you it in the 5th chapter, just go talk to him. He says that the effects of it are based on the type of the permanent potion that you consumed the most, unsurprisingly it increased my manapool by 25 points.

 

[Zariusz]

Ok is there a plan for part 2 of Chronicles Of Myrtana or that was History of Khorinis?

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

Regarding certain trainers: they charge more LP/point, and specify 1-handed, but you also get points in 2handed. Is this intended?

Also, who sells the rune for the portal next to the guard barracks?

 

[JarlFrank]

Regarding certain trainers: they charge more LP/point, and specify 1-handed, but you also get points in 2handed. Is this intended?

Also, who sells the rune for the portal next to the guard barracks?

It always was like this in Gothic, once you hit a certain threshold of one handed or two handed, you need to raise the other simultaneously before you can raise your primary one.

 

[JarlFrank]

I like how through many chapters of game you can see how Archolos starts to rot, refugees crawling on the streets, sometimes begging sometimes mugging, in II chapter Matey has to suffer long lines of lazy leeches but in V chapter he just gives up and barricades himself, at first only city was full of outlanders ( besides our group at silbach) but later whole island is full of lazy, homeless hordes and at the end everything is endangered by orkroaches.

Yeah that's a nice touch. I just had an event like that, in chapter 4. A female farm worker on the outskirts of Silbach was assaulted by 3 rapefugees. She had a battered kind of appearance, with a black eye.

I had that, and I had three refugees assault a farmer in Silbach too.

Realistic portrayal of the 2015 refugee crisis.

 

[Tacgnol]

Incidentally, if you drink the bloodfly cure for Jorn you get a perma HP bonus.

The potions from the quest chain involving Bodowin in Chapter 5 also give perma bonuses (one of them nearly instakills you, but didn't kill me in my game).

 

[notpl]

I know this is pretty old but:

LP costs for learning magic circles are just insane:

1st circle - 20 points
2nd circle - 30 points
3rd circle - 40 points
4th circle - 50 points

What the actual fuck is this?!

Why is that insane exactly? Compare this to weapon skill costs:

from 10% to 30%: 20 points
from 30% to 60%: 60 points
from 60% to 90%: 90 points
from 90% to 100%: 40 points

That's 210 points total. Maybe as low as 170 if you end up using a weapon that gives a +10 bonus. Total cost of all circles is 140 and there's no rune crafting so you can dump rest in mana just like weapon users would dump into STR and/or DEX. Seems to me like pure mages have it a lot cheaper in terms of LPs.

Are you not going to train weapon skills as a mage at all? How are you going to kill enemies till you are strong enough to afford fighting with spells primarily? Is it even possible to beat a game like that? Must be some outright sadistic shit if you ask me.

I am currently in chapter 5, level 43 here are the numbers without any gear, you get stripped off of it in the very beggining of the chapter and I haven't got past that part yet. I can say it's not as bad as I initially thought, but it still is pretty shit.

The thing is, you are looking at the complete picture of a fully developed character, not at what it takes to get there. You see, melee users (can't speak for marksmen, the last time I played ranged build in Gothic was many years ago) have a very smooth progression in comparison to the mages - they slowly but surely accumulate power and kill things faster and faster as they level up. You are not really required to go to obscure places and look for specific items to further develop your character. This is not the case with mages, you have to hunt down books and runes, it's not something terrible, but it's more nuanced then you might think, let me explain.

The hard part about about acquiring books and runes isn't about knowing where they are, but knowing how to get them. For a melee user becoming stronger is straight forward: pump weapon skill, pump strength and equip the strongest weapon you can. Due to how melee damage scales with strength and generally dumb AI, you don't even have to go out of your way to hunt for rare weapons, you will do just fine if you just pick whatever you can find on your way. But when it comes to magic various bullshit starts blocking your way:

1. Ok, I think I feel like learning the first circle of magic, but where do I get the books? Ok, I found one during a quest, good thing it didn't really require me to fight anything scary. Oh, so to get another book I have to fight through a bunch of animals and loot it from abandonned house? Ok, I guess I will spend my LPs on training some melee skills first, gotta get past those damn monsters somehow. What's that? Are magic staves 2h only? Well fuck, guess I'm locked into a shitty animation set with awfully long recovery times now. Don't know wether I'll be able to afford to train my strength enough to equip the all around better one handed weapons, so better be safe than sorry;
2. So there's a rune that I feel might make my life easier in the future, but to pick it up I have to get past a shadowbeast somehow. Oh and I barely have any gold with me, I guess if I learn some hunting skills then I might be able to sell various trophies to merchants and make some gold in the process, may be I'll even be able to sneak past that abomination and get the rune I want. I don't know which hunting skills are truly useful, so I better learn them all, they don't seem to be expensive LP wise anyway, the more the merrier, right?;
3. Ok, training mana costs too much LP and I still have to save some to learn the next magic circle. But look, I have a lot of rare herbs in my inventory, may be I can get a big boost to my stats if I learn how to make permanent potions. Holy shit, I need 60 LPs to do that, that's more than I have right now and I haven't been training for the last few levels at all, this better be worth it (it totally is) or else I'm screwed;
4. Shit, my fighting skills are so bad at the moment, I've spent all of my LPs on other things and I don't have anything left to spare. Getting better gear requires me to advance the plot and that requires me to kill several tough opponents, I have to come up with something... Right, the scrolls, but I have to learn how to transcribe them first, because powerful ones are rarely found in the world and getting them from merchants is just too expensive, guess I have to find a way to get some LPs to finally fucking learn this skill;

Do you get the idea? What I mean to say is that mage is extremely LP starved till level 25 or so, because for him the requirements to become a strong character are extremely frontloaded. Can't travel the island without developing melee skills, can't make money without learning the trade first, can't afford to cast decent spell without learning master alchemy, because mana requirements can not be reasonable achieved with just gear and training, can't get better gear or learn next magic circle without going to the next chapter, etc. But when you get past that, you turn into a god that AOE nukes everything in sight and doesn't care about resource management almost instantly. A mage goes from a piss stained, AIDS ridden, dystrophic hobo to a divinity level with basically nothing in between, it's just plain garbage in comparison to a smooth progression that melee users experience, and the constant gatekeeping is just plain annoying, I don't even understand why it's there, melee chads become supermen in chapter 2 already, why do mages have to endure till chapter 4?

Overall, it's not as bad as it might seem, it's certainly much better than NoTR, but it still is pretty shit overall.

Mages are perfectly capable of killing anything with magic from the word "go." Spells have critical multipliers based on weather and monster type (lightning does double damage in the rain or to bloodflies, fire does double damage to undead, etc.) and the game adds dozens and dozens of new mana restoration foods and drinks. You can take advantage of a rainstorm to sweep entire forests clean with the starter lightning spell and level yourself up in chapters 1 and 2 just fine. You don't need to be killing shadowbeasts in chapter 2, the game is actually better if you progress naturally with magic instead of just abusing the simplistic melee combat to kill anything from the start in my opinion. Of course, any mage worth his salt is going to learn scroll-writing, and with scrolls nothing even theoretically poses a challenge from the start.

I agree the spellbook system is a mixed bag, on the one hand it added a huge thrill to exploration instead of just finding another fucking king's sorrel in any possible hidey-hole, but if you're bad at exploring it can definitely stall out progression as a mage. It is intended as an advanced playstyle compared to melee or marskman. Worst case scenario, the books are all buyable come the following chapter (circle 2 in chapter 3, etc)

 

[notpl]

Ok is there a plan for part 2 of Chronicles Of Myrtana or that was History of Khorinis?

Team has said on a few occasions that while they are proud of the work they did, they absolutely never want to touch gothic again. Many of them have already been hired by professional studios based on their outstanding work on the mod.

History of Khorinis is allegedly still underway, but they're obviously going very slowly if at all.